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Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

Zage

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this is extremely precise and technical and looks like it wasnt factoring DI, and it might only work on fast fallers. i dont think in practice someone could do a combo like this in a real match but its nice to see, it reminds me of the flashy greninja combo's
Pretty much this, unless you get a shield break, these combos aren't really feasible in a real match. You have to preemptively hold the grab button in some cases to get the instant z-drop/throw which can be really awkward depending on your controller setup, they also don't take DI into account.

They do show how good the second hit of Zdropped gala is though. The shield pressure is amazing and has some really good follow ups like dash attack. Combos similar to this are far more practical imo. Z-dropped galaga/foot stool combos are so slept on right now.
 

Nu~

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Pretty much this, unless you get a shield break, these combos aren't really feasible in a real match. You have to preemptively hold the grab button in some cases to get the instant z-drop/throw which can be really awkward depending on your controller setup, they also don't take DI into account.

They do show how good the second hit of Zdropped gala is though. The shield pressure is amazing and has some really good follow ups like dash attack. Combos similar to this are far more practical imo. Z-dropped galaga/foot stool combos are so slept on right now.
I agree that they aren't very practical, but mainly because the opponent can probably DI out of it. As for the instant z drop -> throw
http://youtu.be/vLJXDGqxl-c

It actually pretty simple
 

Froggy

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I got z dropping galaga shield break on a seemingly skilled opponent on FG yesterday. I don't practice z dropping or shild breaking with Pacman and even though its not a s true block string its surprisingly easy to do and requires your opponent only has a small window to break away from it too.
 

Norkas

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Just something random I noticed recently. After pressing the shield button to airdodge we have like two or three frames to z-drop and both actions will happen simultanously. Not sure if it's of any other use than doing some graphic glitches with a galaxian falling down straight instead of rotating.
 

BSP

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Just something random I noticed recently. After pressing the shield button to airdodge we have like two or three frames to z-drop and both actions will happen simultanously. Not sure if it's of any other use than doing some graphic glitches with a galaxian falling down straight instead of rotating.
This is useful with any fruit in order to airdodge and have a hitbox cover you while you do so. In brawl, toon link players did this frequently with bombs and called it ibomb. We can call it iFruit.

Froggy Froggy might be right about FD being one of our worst stages. Platforms are annoying at first, but they may be important in order to get people to fall for Pac-Man's setups.

Something that needs to be compiled is what % Pac-man needs to be at in order for his hydrant water to push each character off of ledges even if they're shielding.

The main problem with most of the setups being posted is that they lose to shield, in addition to be impractical. Even if you somehow pull one of them off once, your opponent will shield so you can't pull it off again. Pac-Man needs reliable ways to beat shield before anything else.
 
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Froggy

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This is useful with any fruit in order to airdodge and have a hitbox cover you while you do so. In brawl, toon link players did this frequently with bombs and called it ibomb. We can call it iFruit.

Froggy Froggy might be right about FD being one of our worst stages. Platforms are annoying at first, but they may be important in order to get people to fall for Pac-Man's setups.

Something that needs to be compiled is what % Pac-man needs to be at in order for his hydrant water to push each character off of ledges even if they're shielding.

The main problem with most of the setups being posted is that they lose to shield, in addition to be impractical. Even if you somehow pull one of them off once, your opponent will shield so you can't pull it off again. Pac-Man needs reliable ways to beat shield before anything else.
Platforms are really more important to give Pacman time to charge his fruit more than anything else. Is whether or not the Hydrant water push you off the ledge dependent on your percentage? I always thought it was just about your distance from the ledge.

And BSP I think you believe you're playing the role of the realist here, but you've kinda just turned into a Pacman hater. Please stop.

And I think Shield have been much less of an issue for me as opposed to other people since 9 out of 10 times my opponent is the one pursuing me. If I approach it's typically in a ledge guarding scenario or just to bust them into the air with my trampoline in certain matches.

This may be common knowledge to everyone but I just found out that with tap jump on there is no dash dead zone from where you can perform your Up B I have always been annoyed when an opponent is right in front of me, I dash up b and nothing comes out. Tap jump on fixes that problem I am definitely going to have to pay more attention to what matches I keep it on and off now.
 

BSP

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Platforms are really more important to give Pacman time to charge his fruit more than anything else. Is whether or not the Hydrant water push you off the ledge dependent on your percentage? I always thought it was just about your distance from the ledge.
The hydrant water is affected by rage. At 79%, your own hydrant water will push you off the ledge even if you're blocking, but not before that amount.

Platforms also make it harder for people to get to the ground safely since you can't airdodge or attack through them. In our case, they also give us more time to make use of trampoline when it's out if we land on a platform after using it, and after we pop someone out of their shield with it.

And BSP I think you believe you're playing the role of the realist here, but you've kinda just turned into a Pacman hater. Please stop.
Put me on ignore then. There's no point in getting hype over stuff that won't work in a real match, and I'm going to point out whether I think it will or not. The amount of our stuff that works decreases astronomically once someone figures out Pac-Man's limitations, as does Pac-Man's time to set anything up once the opponent realizes they should constantly rush him down.

Maybe I'm being a bit too pessimistic for the moment since many people clearly still don't know exactly what to do vs. Pac-Man, but we won't have that luxury in the future if people keep losing to him. Once we get to that point, we're going to need to fall back on reliable setups that work even when people are aware of what Pac-Man is capable of. This is why I am quick to point out when I think something will lose to shield because of X,Y, and Z, because smart players will figure it out quickly as well. Then when it doesn't work, we'll be back to square 1.

Take galaxian combos from the ledge for instance. The first few times I saw Dee do them, I was like " OMG free 40%". After I did it to people a few times, they began respecting me on the ledge, and now I need a way to force / bait them out of shield so I can land my combos. If these z drop galaxian combos ever happen, they'll run into the same issue, which is why I keep bringing us back to reliably beating shield first.

As I said a few pages back, I'm all for setups that work even if the opponent knows they are coming. The ledge setups involving Melon/Bell/Apple over a trampoline while we go for a trump are great because there isn't much an opponent can do about it even if they know it's coming. Same with going for a trump with a bell in hand. That's a reliable 50/50. The z drop galaxian stuff though? We need to force people out of shield first. Looking at pushing people off of ledges with hydrant water is a start. Or maybe edge cancelling Clyde + Pinky or Blinky so that we can throw them out a bit more.

For example, we know people are going to shield against us at high %. What if we run up to them and plant a hydrant about 2 character lengths away,then drop down and start charging Pinky + Clyde. If they begin shielding, it's now risky for them to leave shield because we could release at any moment and tag them.

Mid charge, the hydrant water starts pushing both Pac-Man and the opponent to the ledge. We release the Dsmash right before we go off the ledge, doing ~16 shield damage or more if they're still blocking.

Now here's where the hydrant rage comes in. If we're at the % where hydrant water will force them offstage, maybe they'll leave ground first and Clyde or Pinky will hit. If not, we'll be offstage right after them and can immediately Nair or throw a Key while they're stuck in that ledge slip animation. If we don't have enough rage to force them off, we can Dsmash -> immediately Bair their shield. That's ~28 shield damage, meaning they shouldn't be able to block a key right after that.

Edit: what I'm trying to get across is similar to what is said in this post: http://smashboards.com/threads/viab...ive-impressions.410551/page-363#post-20375117

Verm says Ganon's problems are exposed when you abuse mobility advantage and shield. I say Pac-Man's problems are exposed when you abuse your shield wisely, constantly chase him down, realize what each Fruit does + their limitations, pay attention to the sound cues, and ignore the hydrant. In other words, he has problems when people know the MU. He can still do it, but it's much harder because people won't fall for stuff they shouldn't.

And I think Shield have been much less of an issue for me as opposed to other people since 9 out of 10 times my opponent is the one pursuing me. If I approach it's typically in a ledge guarding scenario or just to bust them into the air with my trampoline in certain matches.
You're not alone here. People chase me down too because they know giving me setup time is foolish. That's another reason transitioning to Mario is hard for me, because I'm so used to everyone running at me. Back to the point though, you can abuse shield against Pac-Man offensively as well as defensively.
 
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Zage

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Something that needs to be compiled is what % Pac-man needs to be at in order for his hydrant water to push each character off of ledges even if they're shielding.
I haven't tested if it's different for other characters, but the hydrant starts pushing Pac-Man off at 79%.

Edit: I didn't know rage was taken into account. Gonna go try this in versus now
 
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BSP

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I haven't tested if it's different for other characters, but the hydrant starts pushing Pac-Man off at 79%.

Edit: I didn't know rage was taken into account. Gonna go try this in versus now
It's weight based (and traction?). We need more rage for the water to push heavier characters off.

I did some friendlies at our weekly session tonight and I'm getting more comfortable with battlefield. The only problem I have with it is that it stops Galaxian ledge combos.

Also can someone see if Inky's two hits hit Ryu out of focus attack?

Edit: so expanding on the whole ledge cancelled smashes, in training mode I can hit Peach's shield with Blinky, Clyde, or Pinky partially charged and immediately Nair when I go off the ledge for a blockstring if done correctly. After that, if I throw a Key ASAP, Peach's shield breaks if she blocks it. That's the type of stuff we need to work on, punishing people for excessive shielding that we know is going to happen.
 
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ZeoLightning

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https://vine.co/v/eYQO1r5Tv7q

another pac- Z-Drop combo, this one looks WAY easier than the first 2. but these Z-Drop combo's look so impractical imo, but a good way to learn how to follow up on them.

IT should be noted that this seems to be only possible with Galaxian. which makes these combo's super hard to setup
 
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Froggy

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Sakurai must really hate competitive gaming, training mode is ****ing useless! It doesn't matter what the percent the Hydrant water never pushes Pacman off the ledge. Its impossible to practice anything practical in there.

The biggest thing I am taking away from these videos is that a galaxian from hand into side B is a real kill setup. Thats something I'll definitely be practicing. Its great against characters who love to jump(something I think Pacman struggles with more than shield)
 
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Splebel

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I know some people complained about this before but I believe if someone is holding the pellet (like before they eat it) and Pac tries to summon another one, it will fail and it still counts as him using it so he can't try again until he hits the ground.

Someone would need to confirm this but that seems like what's happening.
 

Froggy

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I know some people complained about this before but I believe if someone is holding the pellet (like before they eat it) and Pac tries to summon another one, it will fail and it still counts as him using it so he can't try again until he hits the ground.

Someone would need to confirm this but that seems like what's happening.
What do you mean hold the pellet, you mean the half second it takes for them to consume it?
 

BSP

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It takes ~10 frames to eat a pellet. I don't think I've had this issue come up for me.
 

Splebel

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It takes ~10 frames to eat a pellet. I don't think I've had this issue come up for me.
It does for me because I try to remove the pellet from them before they take it. It's not a big issue but I know some people were wonder why they do a side b and nothing comes out even though they were hit between uses.
 
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fromundaman

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On a completely different note, going to be uploading some stuff from my last lab session once I get a new video editing program.

Have a few Diddy specific setups/banana setups, a nasty DICIT setup that I can't really perform well, and some other stuff.

Also, was anyone aware that we could ledge cancel an onstage SideB? I certainly didn't know.
 

ToxoT

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learned today that if you trampoline on top of a hydrant it will force the water to shoot upward when arent on top of it yourself, did anyone else know about this? i dont think its particularly useful, but i like finding new and weird ways to use pac
 
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Splebel

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Happy Halloween Everyone. I don't know if this would be Pac-Man's favorite holiday or his least favorite with all the ghosts.
 

Nu~

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learned today that if you trampoline on top of a hydrant it will force the water to shoot upward when arent on top of it yourself, did anyone else know about this? i dont think its particularly useful, but i like finding new and weird ways to use pac
I have noticed his before. It helps make it harder for opponents to approach you (ones that can't run pay the hydrant)
and can be a good ledge setup for getting the opponent into the air for a bell punish.
 

fromundaman

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So quick question:

Is there a reason none of us are using DICIT much? Is it the difficulty of getting it consistently, or was a fatal flaw found with it when I wasn't looking?

I just ask because I am finally investing the time to getting this down consistently (And boy is it taking a lot of time and frustration in training mode... Hopefully at this rate I'll be 100% consistent by next week...), and it seems really, really useful. Like so many safe setups that completely negate shielding as an option along with most defensive and evasive options covered, along with a couple safe KC (Like for example DICIT bell>immediate Nair. On shield retreating Nair is pretty safe, and on hit the Nair sends them into the bell if the bell went above them, allowing you to confirm into w/e).
 

ZeoLightning

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So quick question:

Is there a reason none of us are using DICIT much? Is it the difficulty of getting it consistently, or was a fatal flaw found with it when I wasn't looking?

I just ask because I am finally investing the time to getting this down consistently (And boy is it taking a lot of time and frustration in training mode... Hopefully at this rate I'll be 100% consistent by next week...), and it seems really, really useful. Like so many safe setups that completely negate shielding as an option along with most defensive and evasive options covered, along with a couple safe KC (Like for example DICIT bell>immediate Nair. On shield retreating Nair is pretty safe, and on hit the Nair sends them into the bell if the bell went above them, allowing you to confirm into w/e).
remind me what dicit was again?
 

Nu~

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So quick question:

Is there a reason none of us are using DICIT much? Is it the difficulty of getting it consistently, or was a fatal flaw found with it when I wasn't looking?

I just ask because I am finally investing the time to getting this down consistently (And boy is it taking a lot of time and frustration in training mode... Hopefully at this rate I'll be 100% consistent by next week...), and it seems really, really useful. Like so many safe setups that completely negate shielding as an option along with most defensive and evasive options covered, along with a couple safe KC (Like for example DICIT bell>immediate Nair. On shield retreating Nair is pretty safe, and on hit the Nair sends them into the bell if the bell went above them, allowing you to confirm into w/e).
I've been trying to say this for months!!!!

No one listens. They just assume that DITCIT loses to sheild and is therefore mediocre
 

Froggy

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I'll start using DICIT when I switch over to the WiiU

Nu~ Nu~ Its because you don't go to tournaments why we don't trust you :p
 

fromundaman

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remind me what dicit was again?
https://youtu.be/NRqCOvRsU38

I've been trying to say this for months!!!!

No one listens. They just assume that DITCIT loses to sheild and is therefore mediocre
That's not at all why I haven't implemented it so far.
Much like PP, I thought I could practice it a little bit whenever I entered training mode to get it down. Unfortunately, this method is slow and not really effective since DICIT is way harder to master than PP.

It wasn't until this week when I was finally motivated to put in the huge time commitment to learning this. I have now spent 3-6 hours in training every day since wednesday practicing this almost exclusively and I'm still only at 40-60% consistency.

However I finally found the "trick" to it so to speak, so I'm finally making progress.

_______

To anyone else trying to learn it finding it feels "inconsistent", that's because there's AT LEAST 3 different ways to perform this technique, and there's a short, medium and long distance version. It takes a lot of time, but once you can isolate how to perform just one method of doing it without accidentally doing one of the others, you can start to make headway.

Also, someone told me back when this was discovered that if you're not getting it, do it faster. That is terrible advice... I spent SOOOO much time getting mad because I was doing it as fast as possible and not getting it only to find I needed to slow it down.

The way I am doing it, the way it works (I think) is that you are essentially canceling the early frames of a dash into a dash item toss. If you hit the earliest cancel frames on your dash, then you will get the short toss. In order to get the long slide, you have to wait until the last bit of the dash's cancel window to go into the dash item toss. Now mind you, this still happens fast, but if you see that you are getting a really short DICIT every time, then slow it down.
 
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ZeoLightning

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https://youtu.be/NRqCOvRsU38



That's not at all why I haven't implemented it so far.
Much like PP, I thought I could practice it a little bit whenever I entered training mode to get it down. Unfortunately, this method is slow and not really effective since DICIT is way harder to master than PP.

It wasn't until this week when I was finally motivated to put in the huge time commitment to learning this. I have now spent 3-6 hours in training every day since wednesday practicing this almost exclusively and I'm still only at 40-60% consistency.

However I finally found the "trick" to it so to speak, so I'm finally making progress.

_______

To anyone else trying to learn it finding it feels "inconsistent", that's because there's AT LEAST 3 different ways to perform this technique, and there's a short, medium and long distance version. It takes a lot of time, but once you can isolate how to perform just one method of doing it without accidentally doing one of the others, you can start to make headway.

Also, someone told me back when this was discovered that if you're not getting it, do it faster. That is terrible advice... I spent SOOOO much time getting mad because I was doing it as fast as possible and not getting it only to find I needed to slow it down.

The way I am doing it, the way it works (I think) is that you are essentially canceling the early frames of a dash into a dash item toss. If you hit the earliest cancel frames on your dash, then you will get the short toss. In order to get the long slide, you have to wait until the last bit of the dash's cancel window to go into the dash item toss. Now mind you, this still happens fast, but if you see that you are getting a really short DICIT every time, then slow it down.
i know hwo to glide toss, but how do you SUPER glide toss?
 

ToxoT

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learned another interesting thing today. if you b cancel a dash while gushing a fruit they act totally different. the galaxian does a loop in place then drops to the ground. the melon goes slowly backwards. the other fruit dont act too different, orange and key just go slightly slower. i think this is pretty useful and a safer way of grabbing a melon/galaxian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2_icUHV2jc
if youre close enough the galaxian will do the same thing and break the hydrant, but i wasnt able to show that here
 

Splebel

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I decided to go real deep into the old Pac-Man threads to see what they were like and I would not recommend it.
 

fromundaman

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learned another interesting thing today. if you b cancel a dash while gushing a fruit they act totally different. the galaxian does a loop in place then drops to the ground. the melon goes slowly backwards. the other fruit dont act too different, orange and key just go slightly slower. i think this is pretty useful and a safer way of grabbing a melon/galaxian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2_icUHV2jc
if youre close enough the galaxian will do the same thing and break the hydrant, but i wasnt able to show that here
Good find. I'd found ways to get those fruit effects when pushed off of platforms or at the end of the water burst, but doing it at will like that will make it much easier to get fruits in hand, especially melon.
 

Aaron1997

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For some reason if Ganon Dair spikes you to the Trampoline, you go right though the Trampoline instead of boncing off it. Not sure if this is a glitch but it should not be happening. I know Ganon is not that great but still
 
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Zage

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Side note about the super glide toss. You can do it without items as well, it seems to be a property of the grab button itself. Pressing grab at the end of a dash makes pac-man slide forward, the distance depends on how late you pressed it. They have the same timing so if you're having difficulties I'd recommend using this as method to teach yourself.

Edit: Is there a way to super glide toss forward/backward on a gamecube controller?
 
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Froggy

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Side note about the super glide toss. You can do it without items as well, it seems to be a property of the grab button itself. Pressing grab at the end of a dash makes pac-man slide forward, the distance depends on how late you pressed it. They have the same timing so if you're having difficulties I'd recommend using this as method to teach yourself.

Edit: Is there a way to super glide toss forward/backward on a gamecube controller?
Isn't the only way to super glid toss forward/backward on the gamecube controller? Can that be done on the 3ds as well? I really need an explanation for what are the limitations of controllers in regards to this technique.
 

PEPESPAIN

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I have a 100% ratio doing upthrow DITCIT and 80% doing it forward. You can do it perfectly forward with GC controller.
 

BSP

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For some reason if Ganon Dair spikes you to the Trampoline, you go right though the Trampoline instead of boncing off it. Not sure if this is a glitch but it should not be happening. I know Ganon is not that great but still
There's an upper limit to how much knockback trampoline can save us from. You can easily see this by going on Palutena's temple and using trampoline under the downwards pointing spikes. Past a certain %, trampoline won't stop Pac-Man from travelling downwards.

We could quantify this for relevant meteors, I guess.
 

fromundaman

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There's an upper limit to how much knockback trampoline can save us from. You can easily see this by going on Palutena's temple and using trampoline under the downwards pointing spikes. Past a certain %, trampoline won't stop Pac-Man from travelling downwards.

We could quantify this for relevant meteors, I guess.
Are you sure about this? I've survived some really strong spikes at ridiculous percents due to trampoline. The only times I've been spiked THROUGH the trampoline were as I was just bouncing off of it. Pretty sure this has to do with what *was* the trampoline glitch and that we just don't bounce off of if spiked through the trampoline during the bounce animation.
 

PEPESPAIN

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There's an upper limit to how much knockback trampoline can save us from. You can easily see this by going on Palutena's temple and using trampoline under the downwards pointing spikes. Past a certain %, trampoline won't stop Pac-Man from travelling downwards.

We could quantify this for relevant meteors, I guess.

I would say that if you get hit and the same time you are jumping on the trampoline you go right though the Trampoline instead of boncing off it. The timing is really tight
 
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