Official Pac-Man's Amazing Full Colour Fan Club! - Pac-Man General Thread

[Mario123311]

Rather sad news...

Pac's first Voice Actor, Marty Ingels passed away yesterday apparently.

 

[ToxoT]

thats too bad. im a fan of old media like the dean martin and jerry lewis show but havent really delved into the pop culture of the 50s and 60s, now might be a good time to look up ingels' history

 

[BSP]

I've been in a Pac-Funk as of late. Playing him feels like more of a chore than anything :<

I'm going to take a break from him for a while.

 

[Froggy]

I've been in a Pac-Funk as of late. Playing him feels like more of a chore than anything :<

I'm going to take a break from him for a while.

For Mario? :\

 

[BSP]

For Mario? :\

Probably, although my neutral game with Mario needs serious work since I've been carried by trampoline and hydrant for so long. My juggles and edgeguarding are pretty good, but I struggle winning neutral vs. fast characters. Then again, Luigi covers those gaps perfectly. I might need to go back to my brawl status of maining the Mario Bros., even though I really do not want to practice mashing cyclone. Time to study Ally/Zenyou/ANTi/mcConCon/Boss a lot more...after I get past this diff eq test.

My recent posts have probably made it obvious, but I'm feeling pretty bleak regarding Pac-Man's viability in the future. He needs time that no one is going to give him. The fixes he needs will make him invalidate low mobility characters, so I'm not expecting any buffs anytime soon. Although, one thing they could do that would fix nearly all of my complaints is to make trampoline's launch angle depend on which way Pac-Man is travelling when he hits. That way we'd get some semblance of an advantage state out of the move, but I don't think they'll give this to us.

 

[Nu~]

Seems like a break would do wonders. Wish you the best

 

[Froggy]

Well sad to see you go. I do hope you find what you are looking for though.

 

[Froggy]

3DS For Glory has really leveled up.

It's gotten to the point where there aren't many people on it anymore, most of the times you go there you'll have to wait a while for people to join. But the people let are really only the hardcore competitive gamers, so everyone is very good, and you'll recognize most of the names you've played before.

The problem though is that I feel Final Destination is Pacman's worst stage. Looking back to my last tournament I remember two sets where I won the first match comfortably, got character and stage counter picked to FD where I got two stock, then I proceeded to two stock them in return on Town and City. Loosing matches I feel like I should be winning is frustrating, and has me feeling like BSP about the characters limitations, but still I'm convinced its just the stag, and I'm taking a break from it because it has me thinking of only FD based strats which will be detrimental to me in tournament. 3ds FG is great for warming up I think but terrible for Pacman practice

 

[MachoCheeze]

I've taken a bit of a break to work on school, but I couldn't sleep last night due to a long ass nap earlier that day so I hit the good ol' lab. I was working on Fair kill confirms last night and took down some notes...

Here are the precentages for (most) of the characters where a short hop fair will cause a techable ground bounce instead of a slide;

NOTE: These percentages were tested with NO rage. I plan to test how rage effects this later tonight.

Mewtwo - 101%
G&W* - 103%
Rosalina - 105%
Fox - 106%
Meta Knight* - 106%
Pikachu* - 106%
Little Mac - 108%
Shulk (Smash) - 108%
Sheik - 109%
Peach - 112%
Duck Hunt* - 113%
Diddy* - 114%
Greninja* - 115%
Ness - 115%
Sonic - 115%
Pac-Man - 116%
(Dark) Pit - 116%
Robin - 116%
Roy - 116%
Luigi - 117%
Mario - 117%
Villager - 117%
Lucario - 118%
Mega Man - 120%
Shulk - 120%
Capt. Falcon - 121%
Link - 121%
Ryu - 121%
Yoshi - 121%
ROB - 122%
Bowser Jr - 123%
Ike - 123%
Wario - 123%
Ganondorf - 126%
King Dedede - 130%
Charizard - 134%
DK - 136%?
Bowser 136%
Shulk (Shield) - 171%

*Very difficult to hit this character with rising short hop fair. Should mainly sick to in air Fair -> Key kill confirms

At these percentages I feel it's best to use short hop fair -> bell. The teaching time is awkward for the opponent and as you know if we buffer bell it seems like a pretty confirmed stun -> side smash. Higher percentages should allow key to true combo from short hop fair on some characters. Or if you want to get stylish and go for the cheesey kill at higher percentages you can short hop fair -> bell -> foot stool -> forward smash. Not that I'd recommend it unless you're going for the disrespect lol.

I know this isn't anything new or anything but I don't think I've seen the exact percentages when the confirm can begin to work. Some characters it's harder on of course and grounded short hop fair is decently hard to land in match, but hopefully these numbers can help out in some way!

 

[Froggy]

I've taken a bit of a break to work on school, but I couldn't sleep last night due to a long *** nap earlier that day so I hit the good ol' lab. I was working on Fair kill confirms last night and took down some notes...

Here are the precentages for (most) of the characters where a short hop fair will cause a techable ground bounce instead of a slide;

Mewtwo - 101%
G&W* - 103%
Rosalina - 105%
Fox - 106%
Meta Knight* - 106%
Pikachu* - 106%
Little Mac - 108%
Shulk (Smash) - 108%
Sheik - 109%
Peach - 112%
Duck Hunt* - 113%
Diddy* - 114%
Greninja* - 115%
Ness - 115%
Sonic - 115%
Pac-Man - 116%
(Dark) Pit - 116%
Robin - 116%
Roy - 116%
Luigi - 117%
Mario - 117%
Villager - 117%
Lucario - 118%
Mega Man - 120%
Shulk - 120%
Capt. Falcon - 121%
Link - 121%
Ryu - 121%
Yoshi - 121%
ROB - 122%
Bowser Jr - 123%
Ike - 123%
Wario - 123%
Ganondorf - 126%
King Dedede - 130%
Charizard - 134%
DK - 136%?
Bowser 136%
Shulk (Shield) - 171%

*Very difficult to hit this character with rising short hop fair. Should mainly sick to in air Fair -> Key kill confirms

At these percentages I feel it's best to use short hop fair -> bell. The teaching time is awkward for the opponent and as you know if we buffer bell it seems like a pretty confirmed stun -> side smash. Higher percentages should allow key to true combo from short hop fair on some characters. Or if you want to get stylish and go for the cheesey kill at higher percentages you can short hop fair -> bell -> foot stool -> forward smash. Not that I'd recommend it unless you're going for the disrespect lol.

I know this isn't anything new or anything but I don't think I've seen the exact percentages when the confirm can begin to work. Some characters it's harder on of course and grounded short hop fair is decently hard to land in match, but hopefully these numbers can help out in some way!

Does rage factor int this at all? Like if I have rage rage do the percents change? If so could you please make a table that shows the percentage this takes effect at different rage levels.

Also are those percents an absolute value or is it a range? Like does rising fair always lead to a terrible knock down after that percents or does it stop working passed another percentage point?

 

[MachoCheeze]

Oh, my b, I typed this up right after I woke up this morning and forgot to mention. This list is pac-man with NO rage. I planned to test how rage effects it tonight. Thanks for the catch! I'll go back and edit the post.

To answer your second question, after these percentages it always leads into a terrible knockdown.

 

[Froggy]

I had absolutely no idea! Alright I'm definitely incorporating this into my game.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

fromundaman . Sorry mate, I just read your big post. I posted about the pacman guide without reading your post.

""What we need is to find a better way to make space to set ourselves up.""

I'm agree with you, but I think that what we are looking for is fruit zdrop. I used to protect myself with fruit zdroping, melon is really REALLy usefull. I'm not sure if it is the key, but I'm traying with that

 

[MachoCheeze]

Aright got around to some testing and here were my findings. I used Mewtwo as my geuinea pig as he had a relatively low % for the knock over in training mod.

This was testing in Smash mode using two controllers.

Pac-Man Rage % | Mewtwo Damage %
0% | 103%
50% | 101%
75% | 95%
100% | 91%
150% | 85%

So yeah, more rage = earlier we can cause the techable knockdown. You have to remember that stale moves will affect this too.

 

[Nu~]

Z dropping is amazing for protection and gets our game going.

Aright got around to some testing and here were my findings. I used Mewtwo as my geuinea pig as he had a relatively low % for the knock over in training mod.

This was testing in Smash mode using two controllers.

Pac-Man Rage % | Mewtwo Damage %
0% | 103%
50% | 101%
75% | 95%
100% | 91%
150% | 85%

So yeah, more rage = earlier we can cause the techable knockdown. You have to remember that stale moves will affect this too.

THANK YOU, MAN!

This is all extremely helpful!! Nice to know that we're all labbing hard again.

 

[MachoCheeze]

Z dropping is amazing for protection and gets our game going.

THANK YOU, MAN!

This is all extremely helpful!! Nice to know that we're all labbing hard again.

No prob dude! I'll try different, more common characters when I can.

 

[Froggy]

Aright got around to some testing and here were my findings. I used Mewtwo as my geuinea pig as he had a relatively low % for the knock over in training mod.

This was testing in Smash mode using two controllers.

Pac-Man Rage % | Mewtwo Damage %
0% | 103%
50% | 101%
75% | 95%
100% | 91%
150% | 85%

So yeah, more rage = earlier we can cause the techable knockdown. You have to remember that stale moves will affect this too.

I haven't incorporated a lot of the Pacman tech into my game, like I still don't Z drop and I don't think I can dcit on the 3ds, but this is definately something will be deep into practice with.

 

[Froggy]

edit: sry for double post

I really wish you had done the rage test on Mario though so we could have a mid weight for a base line instead of a light character like mewtwo.

 

[Nu~]

To be honest, the only thing we really need to "set up" is a fruit in the hand. It gives us so many options and control over the match. Fast hydrant launches, combos, ledge traps, KO confirms, safer approaches...

What do you guys define as "setting up" because to me, having a fruit in the hand is all we need to start, and if that's the case, setting up isn't hard.

 

[verbatim]

Beyond a fruit in hand I like having a hydrant out. Its presence can mess people up, I can zdrop launch it, and if worst comes to worse I can just reset to whatever side of the stage they aren't on and resume the neutral.

 

[fromundaman]

To be honest, the only thing we really need to "set up" is a fruit in the hand. It gives us so many options and control over the match. Fast hydrant launches, combos, ledge traps, KO confirms, safer approaches...

What do you guys define as "setting up" because to me, having a fruit in the hand is all we need to start, and if that's the case, setting up isn't hard.

I would indeed say that, but how exactly is that easy to accomplish? The only relatively risk free one to grab is galaga, and even that one is risky in the neutral (Although TBH I find Apple and Melon the most useful fruits to have in hand right now, with key right behind that).



EDIT:

Also after the suggestions you guys gave recently, I started using Bair and Z-drops a lot more. Two of the things I'm currently working on are:

1) The precise timing where Fast Falling allows Bair to autocancel (And options out of it)

And

2) Not trying to play a traditional neutral and instead being ridiculously evasive

The first on that list is being super useful since it speeds up my game considerably, and it still works with Z-drop Bair regrabs for a ridiculous amount of shield damage.

The second one is going to get me booed and kind of works against my usually "try to do cool **** while winning" style, but running away and playing evasive, then punishing whiffs seems really good against characters that beat us in the neutral.
While I don't enjoy playing this way, it is giving me options against some of the harder to play against characters.

 

[Nu~]

I would indeed say that, but how exactly is that easy to accomplish? The only relatively risk free one to grab is galaga, and even that one is risky in the neutral (Although TBH I find Apple and Melon the most useful fruits to have in hand right now, with key right behind that).



EDIT:

Also after the suggestions you guys gave recently, I started using Bair and Z-drops a lot more. Two of the things I'm currently working on are:

1) The precise timing where Fast Falling allows Bair to autocancel (And options out of it)

And

2) Not trying to play a traditional neutral and instead being ridiculously evasive

The first on that list is being super useful since it speeds up my game considerably, and it still works with Z-drop Bair regrabs for a ridiculous amount of shield damage.

The second one is going to get me booed and kind of works against my usually "try to do cool **** while winning" style, but running away and playing evasive, then punishing whiffs seems really good against characters that beat us in the neutral.
While I don't enjoy playing this way, it is giving me options against some of the harder to play against characters.

Every fruit can be caught off of the wall bar bell and apple. Bell can be caught offstage by simply throwing it, then jumping towards it and catching it. Apple is the only tricky one because it requires a body (character or hydrant) or hydrant water. Most opponents aren't fat enough to gimp us during this, and you can make it harder from them by jab launching a hydrant by the ledge before you go to catch a fruit.

I agree with both of the changes you are making to your game plan. I personally always felt that pacman should play the evasive game as a way to buy time to start his setups.

Usually, after we gain a fruit in hand, we then have complete control over the match because of all of the options it opens up for us. We need to master z drop aerials and delayed hydrant launches so that we can both z drop and use our normals together

 

[fromundaman]

Well one thing to be careful with Z-drop aerials is that if the opponent either beats out our aerial or air dodges through us, they will take our fruit.

Also those regrab tactics are similar to mine and already require us to have made room for ourselves.

____

Bah, I know evasiveness is important, but maaaaan this is more evasiveness than I wanted to do XD

Oh well, time to study up in the legendary Abadango technique of "Run away and throw ****".

 

[Froggy]

Running awa, hydrant and fruit throw is definitely my style of play right now and while I have gotten very far with it, it also does have limitations. Its important to have a general strong zoning game as well, I am trying to repractice that.

 

[Splebel]

I haven't incorporated a lot of the Pacman tech into my game, like I still don't Z drop and I don't think I can dcit on the 3ds, but this is definately something will be deep into practice with.

You can do the up throw DCIT on the new 3DS but I'm not sure about the forward one as I was never able to pull it off.

 

[BSP]

I've never seen the huge boost that Z dropping gives us outside of key in hand. Whenever I tried it, my opponent would either jump up and hit me, or he/she roll, move, etc. and then proceed to hit me because I have to z drop on top of him/her to apply any pressure.

 

[Froggy]

Looks like I may finally have a ride to a stacked weekly now :D

BSP You play against female opponents?

 

[Nu~]

I've never seen the huge boost that Z dropping gives us outside of key in hand. Whenever I tried it, my opponent would either jump up and hit me, or he/she roll, move, etc. and then proceed to hit me because I have to z drop on top of him/her to apply any pressure.

Or you let them run into it, use it to launch hydrants immediately with SH z drop -> hydrant drop -> Nair, trap air dodges in the air, set up ledge traps...
There are many applications if you get creative with it.


It can even make it hard for an opponent to approach you because you can punish any approach they choose with a sh z drop. Even sheild is unsafe because of our shield braking capabilities with a fruit in the hand and how powerful z drop fruit -> trampoline is.

 

[Aaron1997]

Looks like we have a 0-to death now

 

[Nu~]

Looks like we have a 0-to death now

I bet we have a lot more kill combos than this...galaxian seems to open up so many possibilities for z drop KO combos. And imagine what we can do with other fruits as well...

Welp

"To the lab!!"

 

[ZeoLightning]

Looks like we have a 0-to death now

i was literally just about to link and possibly make a thread about this

 

[ZeoLightning]

Looks like we have a 0-to death now

to run through everything, it looks like a

Z drop to reverse falling upair,
Pushing him back into the Z drop hit box,
short run into short hop Z-Regrab into Z-Drop,
Falling reverse up air into jump Z-drop,
Regrab instant throw into double jump Side B

this is extremely precise and technical and looks like it wasnt factoring DI, and it might only work on fast fallers. i dont think in practice someone could do a combo like this in a real match but its nice to see, it reminds me of the flashy greninja combo's

it also isnt a true 0 to death as it only works near the edge. but its a damn good combo, and i feel alot of Pac combo's from Z-drop and foot stool can be achieved once we develop more

 

[Nu~]

to run through everything, it looks like a

Z drop to reverse falling upair,
Pushing him back into the Z drop hit box,
short run into short hop Z-Regrab into Z-Drop,
Falling reverse up air into jump Z-drop,
Regrab instant throw into double jump Side B

this is extremely precise and technical and looks like it wasnt factoring DI, and it might only work on fast fallers. i dont think in practice someone could do a combo like this in a real match but its nice to see, it reminds me of the flashy greninja combo's

it also isnt a true 0 to death as it only works near the edge. but its a damn good combo, and i feel alot of Pac combo's from Z-drop and foot stool can be achieved once we develop more

If it only works in fast fallers, then that's fine by me. Those are the type of characters that rule this meta anyway. It doesn't seem too precise if you can get the rhythm down. It's simply the timing that we need to practice. Then it becomes muscle memory.

I wonder if directing the side B a different way would make the opponent go upwards instead of sideways...

 

[BSP]

Looks like I may finally have a ride to a stacked weekly now :D

BSP You play against female opponents?

I was thinking of actual characters. Peach, Rosalina, Sheik, etc. I run into female smashers once in a blue moon though.

Or you let them run into it,

Assuming we're in neutral, why would they run into it? They can space attacks to hit me and cancel the z drop hitbox at the same time. If I z drop things to leave them as mines, for lack of a better term, they can be attacked to be cancelled or stolen, getting me nowhere.

use it to launch hydrants immediately with SH z drop -> hydrant drop -> Nair,

Yes. This does take time, but it's our fastest launch.

trap air dodges in the air,

I guess...but if I'm landing on Pac-Man, I'm probably going to throw something out as opposed to air dodging.

set up ledge traps...

Yep.

There are many applications if you get creative with it.

Yeah, but how many of them get things done or aren't easily countered? Plus, they all take time which I still think is Pac-Man's biggest problem.

It can even make it hard for an opponent to approach you because you can punish any approach they choose with a sh z drop. Even sheild is unsafe because of our shield braking capabilities with a fruit in the hand and how powerful z drop fruit -> trampoline is.

I'm not following this. How does a z drop punish any spaced move? The technique itself has no horizontal range.

Walk up shield is still pretty safe even when Pac-Man has something in hand. If it's key, you can shield anyway and roll backwards on reaction to him attempting to get over you to attempt the shield break combo. Alternatively, you can aerial him OoS in response to the jump.

 

[Nu~]

Yeah, but how many of them get things done or aren't easily countered? Plus, they all take time which I still think is Pac-Man's biggest problem.

Very few if you don't mess up the set up. I don't see how instant launch hydrants with us following behind are easy to counter. Neither are z drop ledge traps (we don't even need trampoline for these, but hydrant definitely helps) since waiting it out will get them ledge trumped into a worse punish. And the setups themselves don't take much time(z dropping over the ledge is pretty quick and easy) it's the process of getting the fruit in hand which is pretty darn safe depending on who you are fighting. As for fruit gushing, it doesn't take too long to setup if you use the run off method, and it is only easy to get around if you don't go out and pressure the opponent. Delayed hydrants on the other hand do take time, I'll give you that.

Walk up shield is still pretty safe even when Pac-Man has something in hand. If it's key, you can shield anyway and roll backwards on reaction to him attempting to get over you to attempt the shield break combo. Alternatively, you can aerial him OoS in response to the jump.

I'm guessing you didn't see my post in the advanced technique thread. If you repeatedly z drop a key on an opponent's shield, they can't escape. SH z drop -> FF z regrab -> SH z drop locks opponents in shield. Do it three times and that's an easy shield brake.

I will make a video for you.

I admit, z dropping may not deter an approach alone, but against characters without disjoints, z drop into bair regrab is a good way to challenge opponents with slower aerials/less range. If the opponent is spacing themselves, they won't be close enough to catch the fruit. They will be forced to suffer the hitlag of attacking the fruit which we can challenge with our bair.

If you are fighting sword characters, then it isn't a great technique, but we shouldn't try to out footsie them in their dominant space anyways.

 

[ZeoLightning]

If it only works in fast fallers, then that's fine by me. Those are the type of characters that rule this meta anyway. It doesn't seem too precise if you can get the rhythm down. It's simply the timing that we need to practice. Then it becomes muscle memory.

I wonder if directing the side B a different way would make the opponent go upwards instead of sideways...

Except for Luigi, Pika, Rosa and Mario

Side b will never send a person straight upwards, it has horizontal knock back properties. going straight up will send opponents more diagonally though

 

[ZeoLightning]

Very few if you don't mess up the set up. I don't see how instant launch hydrants with us following behind are easy to counter. Neither are z drop ledge traps (we don't even need trampoline for these, but hydrant definitely helps) since waiting it out will get them ledge trumped into a worse punish. And the setups themselves don't take much time(z dropping over the ledge is pretty quick and easy) it's the process of getting the fruit in hand which is pretty darn safe depending on who you are fighting. As for fruit gushing, it doesn't take too long to setup if you use the run off method, and it is only easy to get around if you don't go out and pressure the opponent. Delayed hydrants on the other hand do take time, I'll give you that.



I'm guessing you didn't see my post in the advanced technique thread. If you repeatedly z drop a key on an opponent's shield, they can't escape. SH z drop -> FF z regrab -> SH z drop locks opponents in shield. Do it three times and that's an easy shield brake.

I will make a video for you.

I admit, z dropping may not deter an approach alone, but against characters without disjoints, z drop into bair regrab is a good way to challenge opponents with slower aerials/less range. If the opponent is spacing themselves, they won't be close enough to catch the fruit. They will be forced to suffer the hitlag of attacking the fruit which we can challenge with our bair.

If you are fighting sword characters, then it isn't a great technique, but we shouldn't try to out footsie them in their dominant space anyways.

Except for Luigi, Ness, Pika, Rosa and Mario

Side b will never send a person straight upwards, it has horizontal knock back properties. going straight up will send opponents more diagonally though

 

[Aaron1997]

Welp, I've found another one.

Edit:
They just keep coming in

 

[Nu~]

https://vine.co/v/eYP2DU0iu5q

There's an easier one too!

 

[ToxoT]

japanese players come up with the most insane stuff, a 0%-death on a simple z drop, and so gracefully too