Platforms are really more important to give Pacman time to charge his fruit more than anything else. Is whether or not the Hydrant water push you off the ledge dependent on your percentage? I always thought it was just about your distance from the ledge.
The hydrant water is affected by rage. At 79%, your own hydrant water will push you off the ledge even if you're blocking, but not before that amount.
Platforms also make it harder for people to get to the ground safely since you can't airdodge or attack through them. In our case, they also give us more time to make use of trampoline when it's out if we land on a platform after using it, and after we pop someone out of their shield with it.
And BSP I think you believe you're playing the role of the realist here, but you've kinda just turned into a Pacman hater. Please stop.
Put me on ignore then. There's no point in getting hype over stuff that won't work in a real match, and I'm going to point out whether I think it will or not. The amount of our stuff that works decreases astronomically once someone figures out Pac-Man's limitations, as does Pac-Man's time to set anything up once the opponent realizes they should constantly rush him down.
Maybe I'm being a bit too pessimistic for the moment since many people clearly still don't know exactly what to do vs. Pac-Man, but we won't have that luxury in the future if people keep losing to him. Once we get to that point, we're going to need to fall back on reliable setups that work even when people are aware of what Pac-Man is capable of. This is why I am quick to point out when I think something will lose to shield because of X,Y, and Z, because smart players will figure it out quickly as well. Then when it doesn't work, we'll be back to square 1.
Take galaxian combos from the ledge for instance. The first few times I saw Dee do them, I was like " OMG free 40%". After I did it to people a few times, they began respecting me on the ledge, and now I need a way to force / bait them out of shield so I can land my combos. If these z drop galaxian combos ever happen, they'll run into the same issue, which is why I keep bringing us back to reliably beating shield first.
As I said a few pages back, I'm all for setups that work even if the opponent knows they are coming. The ledge setups involving Melon/Bell/Apple over a trampoline while we go for a trump are great because there isn't much an opponent can do about it even if they know it's coming. Same with going for a trump with a bell in hand. That's a reliable 50/50. The z drop galaxian stuff though? We need to force people out of shield first. Looking at pushing people off of ledges with hydrant water is a start. Or maybe edge cancelling Clyde + Pinky or Blinky so that we can throw them out a bit more.
For example, we know people are going to shield against us at high %. What if we run up to them and plant a hydrant about 2 character lengths away,then drop down and start charging Pinky + Clyde. If they begin shielding, it's now risky for them to leave shield because we could release at any moment and tag them.
Mid charge, the hydrant water starts pushing both Pac-Man and the opponent to the ledge. We release the Dsmash right before we go off the ledge, doing ~16 shield damage or more if they're still blocking.
Now here's where the hydrant rage comes in. If we're at the % where hydrant water will force them offstage, maybe they'll leave ground first and Clyde or Pinky will hit. If not, we'll be offstage right after them and can immediately Nair or throw a Key while they're stuck in that ledge slip animation. If we don't have enough rage to force them off, we can Dsmash -> immediately Bair their shield. That's ~28 shield damage, meaning they shouldn't be able to block a key right after that.
Edit: what I'm trying to get across is similar to what is said in this post:
http://smashboards.com/threads/viab...ive-impressions.410551/page-363#post-20375117
Verm says Ganon's problems are exposed when you abuse mobility advantage and shield. I say Pac-Man's problems are exposed when you abuse your shield wisely, constantly chase him down, realize what each Fruit does + their limitations, pay attention to the sound cues, and ignore the hydrant. In other words, he has problems when people know the MU. He can still do it, but it's much harder because people won't fall for stuff they shouldn't.
And I think Shield have been much less of an issue for me as opposed to other people since 9 out of 10 times my opponent is the one pursuing me. If I approach it's typically in a ledge guarding scenario or just to bust them into the air with my trampoline in certain matches.
You're not alone here. People chase me down too because they know giving me setup time is foolish. That's another reason transitioning to Mario is hard for me, because I'm so used to everyone running at me. Back to the point though, you can abuse shield against Pac-Man offensively as well as defensively.
