Out of order, new matchup thread coming soon!

[KRDsonic]

ooh how do you do this i wanna do this :3

wolf needs a wavedash.

Hold down and press jump so she floats on the ground, then let go so she lands, then repeat. You can time her ground floats fast enough so it almost seems like a small wavedash since you can move during it too.

 

[Commander_Beef]

The Meta Knight matchup is the reason I'm picking up Wolf for a secondary against him because Wolf's aerial mobility, fast aerials/smashes, his laser, and strong punishing game is what I believe is the key secondary for my main King Dedede. Just for Meta Knight. I think you're overrating the matchup ratio because most offline people think it's only 55:45 Meta Knight's favor. I think it should be updated, what do you all think here?

 

[tekkie]

The Meta Knight matchup is the reason I'm picking up Wolf for a secondary against him because Wolf's aerial mobility, fast aerials/smashes, his laser, and strong punishing game is what I believe is the key secondary for my main King Dedede. Just for Meta Knight. I think you're overrating the matchup ratio because most offline people think it's only 55:45 Meta Knight's favor. I think it should be updated, what do you all think here?

metaknight, if he isnt a *****, ***** wolf hard

the only videos ive seen of a decent mk losing to wolf is against jumpman, who apparently plays mks who dont follow wolf offstage and who go out of their way to run into wolf's upB onstage

just pick up metaknight, he does decently well against metaknight

in before the traditional wolf boards "bair bair shine wolf's favor 70:30 lolol"

 

[~ Gheb ~]

MK doesn't **** Wolf in the slightest.

 

[tekkie]

MK doesn't **** Wolf in the slightest.

i wanna see you beat a good mk

 

[Arrows]

I'm just going to have to emphasize that metaknight has a chaingrab on us. Just saying.

On the bright side, we do have grab release options on metaknight... (dacus, fsmash)

 

[Ishiey]

MK has a cg on us? Details please.

Grab releases only work if he air breaks, which MKs shouldn't be doing seeing how Wolf can't force it :< I don't think MK is THAT bad, but 55:45 seems a bit closer than it should be. Aerial mobility helps a ton, and if MK isn't borderline perfect you can usmash OoS over half of his attacks, but not many MKs really know the matchup so that kinda helps out the most =/

 

[rvkevin]

I would probably say that Wolf is one of MK's worst match ups, like in the top 5 following Diddy, Snake, Falco. Considering Wolf has better aerial mobility, range, projectile, KO options, weight. But I wouldn't be surprised if this match up went from slight disadvantage to not winnable once people investigate it fully.

Ish, I think he is referring to Dthrow->Dthrow.

 

[tekkie]

But I wouldn't be surprised if this match up went from slight disadvantage to not winnable once people investigate it fully.

on our part? probably. MKs dont have to care that much about the specifics of a bottom-of-D-tier character. but i keep forgetting i live in a region of wolf destroyers.

also the dthrow thing probably stops after a bit; you can tech the stage at some point. i dont worry about the chaingrab so much as borderline unpunishable smashes, godly range, unbeatable priority, flawless off-stage game, and unpunishable recovery.

also getting daired offstage is pretty much a lost stock

m2k in the second video had a pretty great strategy; spam tornado until their shield's gone and then tornado some more.

 

[rvkevin]

m2k in the second video had a pretty great strategy; spam tornado until their shield's gone and then tornado some more.

If MK didn't have tornado, I don't think he would have the advantage against Wolf. Other than UpB, tornado is the only thing to make up for his lack of aerial mobility, which is essential in this match up.

 

[Ishiey]

Dthrow isn't really a cg, but it definitely puts MK in a great position to capitalize on whatever we choose to do at low %s. You can tech off the stage if you DI down at higher %s.

Turtle, I see what you're saying about the Tornado... but the thing is, jumpshine beats it with ease unless the MK is psychic or does an amazing job at retreating it (which would limit Tornado's effectiveness in the first place). So, while it's still very effective, I think it's possible for Wolf to overcome (or at least not get so screwed over by). Agreed that once MKs bother learning the matchup it'll be significantly harder though

 

[Pitzer]

Even if Wolf has better moblity doesn't mean he can avoid getting gimped. I see this match as 55-45 Mk's Wolf has a shine and his b stops nado but a smart mk would bait some of these's moves and punish. Bair is a good spacing tool for wolf but mk can just nado and suck you in. I think if the wolf plays smart enough he can pull of an upset. I kinda know this match-up both sides. The mk wants you to double jump so he can punish you so hard. Save you second jump always.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Sorry guys, I've been having problems connecting to this site since the month of April started. I'll probably try to update it this Friday.

Also if you guys want me to update some stuff on Metaknight I could do that too.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I would probably say that Wolf is one of MK's worst match ups, like in the top 5 following Diddy, Snake, Falco.

Wario, Pikachu and D3 are his worst match-ups. Diddy is certainly not top 5 and Snake/Falco are only barely so. Imo it's Wario > Pikachu > D3 / Snake > Falco.

Considering Wolf has better aerial mobility, range, projectile, KO options, weight. But I wouldn't be surprised if this match up went from slight disadvantage to not winnable once people investigate it fully.

The thing is thatt most Wolves haven't investigated this match-up at ALL. There's a lot of stuff against MK that works most of the time and is simply not used because people are scrubs who keep on QQ about MK instead of analyzing what works and what not. How many good players have invested time into that particular match-up annd practised it to see how you can play it? Can't be many considering that there are only like 3 good Wolves in the first place.

m2k in the second video had a pretty great strategy; spam tornado until their shield's gone and then tornado some more.

If MK didn't have tornado, I don't think he would have the advantage against Wolf. Other than UpB, tornado is the only thing to make up for his lack of aerial mobility, which is essential in this match up.

Seriously? Wolf is the one character who can beat Tornado from ANY position out of ANY situation and then combo into AAA for a 12%. Each time MK tried to Tornado it's a free 12% for you.

People just don't camp enough.

Even if Wolf has better moblity doesn't mean he can avoid getting gimped. I see this match as 55-45 Mk's Wolf has a shine and his b stops nado but a smart mk would bait some of these's moves and punish. Bair is a good spacing tool for wolf but mk can just nado and suck you in. I think if the wolf plays smart enough he can pull of an upset. I kinda know this match-up both sides. The mk wants you to double jump so he can punish you so hard. Save you second jump always.

Not sure about that. I don't think it's as close as 55/45. I'd say it's 6/4 for now.

 

[audauro]

wait... did you just say d3 is one of mk's worst matchups?

 

[rvkevin]

wait... did you just say d3 is one of mk's worst matchups?

No, he misunderstood. He thought I was talking about Wolf's worst match ups. Only then does figuring D3 and Pika as good and Diddy bad make sense. I'm still mixed on Wario though.

 

[audauro]

No, he misunderstood. He thought I was talking about Wolf's worst match ups. Only then does figuring D3 and Pika as good and Diddy bad make sense. I'm still mixed on Wario though.

oh duhhhh.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Wario, Pikachu and D3 are his worst match-ups. Diddy is certainly not top 5 and Snake/Falco are only barely so. Imo it's Wario > Pikachu > D3 / Snake > Falco.
The thing is thatt most Wolves haven't investigated this match-up at ALL. There's a lot of stuff against MK that works most of the time and is simply not used because people are scrubs who keep on QQ about MK instead of analyzing what works and what not. How many good players have invested time into that particular match-up annd practised it to see how you can play it? Can't be many considering that there are only like 3 good Wolves in the first place.
Seriously? Wolf is the one character who can beat Tornado from ANY position out of ANY situation and then combo into AAA for a 12%. Each time MK tried to Tornado it's a free 12% for you.
People just don't camp enough.
Not sure about that. I don't think it's as close as 55/45. I'd say it's 6/4 for now.

True. Wolf can beat Nado from any position with Nair, Shine, or Laser. But you need to realize Wolf gets shut down in the air. One simple Fair by Mk is enough to put Wolf in a horrendous position. Wolf vs Mk is not 55-45, nor will it ever be. Wolf falls very fast making him easily combo'd.

I know the Wolf-Mk match up. Omni was surprised by my Wolf when I took him to last stock. Yet Korn can easily 2-3 stock me. I will get some Cafe practice tomorrow since my crew is having a smashfest (He's coming and is basically a member anyway) and I need a little study break before I cram my brain for my Organic Chem test Monday and P.Chem exam Wednesday.

Wolf is almost even with Snake. Are you high? Wolf only has 5 match ups that require him to play significantly smarter. D3, Pikachu, Sheik, Mk, and Wario (If he knows the cg). Falco is just platform camp and then **** Falco. I think Falco vs Wolf is 55-45 Falco's favor everywhere except Fd and Japes where it's 65-35.

Mk's closest match ups are Diddy, Snake, Falco, Wario, Ness, Squirtle alone, Jiggz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBa5CxOVq6c&playnext_from=TL&videos=06Hj_GjcqLg), and Ice climbers

wait... did you just say d3 is one of mk's worst matchups?

No, he misunderstood. He thought I was talking about Wolf's worst match ups. Only then does figuring D3 and Pika as good and Diddy bad make sense. I'm still mixed on Wario though.

oh duhhhh.

@__________@

 

[pulse131]

l0ol peach. pretty basic mu there. back air her face and layzuh her to death.

 

[Yoshara]

What little I know/can recall is that whenever Peach goes for a D-air just shield and then use Up-smash OOS.

 

[tekkie]

it aint that easy. fair can be spaced nicely, nair and jab are super effing quick, and her bair is awesome.

 

[Apollo$]

Avoid dair lock, laser effectively, reflect her turnup camping, bair has stupid priority to beat her aerials. Our jumpshine is a worthy asset to stop her also

She also has a CG on us so yeah..

 

[Destrawr]

.....I really just play normal and bair a tiny bit more and i have no trouble with peach whatsoever....i just see no threat...

 

[Deleted member]

Peach has never been an issue for my Wolf, either.

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

Awww, you guys don't really think Peach is THAT easy to beat, do you? I mean yeah, we know that Wolf has the advantage, but it's not much. Or at least, not as much of an advantage as you would have against Ganondorf of Jigglypuff. D:

 

[Ishiey]

We really need to do something about this matchup thread, it's moving wayyyyyyyyyyy too slow lol.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Awww, you guys don't really think Peach is THAT easy to beat, do you? I mean yeah, we know that Wolf has the advantage, but it's not much. Or at least, not as much of an advantage as you would have against Ganondorf of Jigglypuff. D:

Agreed.

We really need to do something about this matchup thread, it's moving wayyyyyyyyyyy too slow lol.

Agreed.

 

[Laem]

I agree with the above.

 

[Ishiey]

If Sess isn't back in a few days, we should really start discussing a new way to run matchups. This style goes way too slowly and I'm sure we would be able to handle more than one character discussion at a time if we had individual threads like Gheb did way back when. Anyone want to throw out ideas on how to do a matchup thread if Sess isn't able to keep this up?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think we should just have open discussions in this thread. As a mod you can update the OP without Sess, right? Just edit in new stuff whenever something interesting comes up.

I guess we should start with MK since some ppl think he ***** Wolf for some reason.

 

[Ishiey]

I'm up for open discussions... but editing stuff into the OP is going to make it so monstrously huge, and I'm not too great with that kind of organization, idk x____x

Fine I admit it, I'm whining because I'm lazy. Open discussion time, who do you guys want to talk about? We already talked about Luigi in the social for a while, so maybe we can finish that up really quick-like? Throw out suggestions, we'll start Monday if Sess still isn't back.

 

[Goldenadept]

i found that when luigi uses his down B tornado as a recovering tool its path is fairly predictable and if you have good timing you can spike him :O thats what i do against my friend who mains luigi at least.
his jab and nair have epic priority but i think our fair/bair beats them if spaced right.

once luigi dthrows you whats the best direction to DI/ whats the best move to throw out to try and avoid being combo'd? i've had a bit of luck with shine if the luigi isn't right on you after the throw

 

[Arrows]

Peach:

To be honest, I don't see what the fuss is about. I think this matchup is pretty standard... Peach doesn't have a godly grab range, nor should she kill wolf early. Bair comes out a whole lot faster than her fair and it outranges all of her other attacks...

Try not to get sweetspotted usmashed. That blows.
Don't fsmash into her shield, but I'm pretty sure that goes for every character.

It's pretty hard to gimp a good peach, but I don't have TOO much experience in the matchup so someone could correct me if they feel like it.

For some reason I tend to use retreating AC fairs more than bair for this matchup... it makes me feel more secure.

55-45 Wolf (edited)
If Peach somehow pulls out a beamsword or bom-omb it's like 50-50.


I STILL DO NOT SEE WHY PIKACHU ***** WOLF. I don't think he's NEARLY as bad as DDD or metaknight. We outrange and outprioritize pikachu in the air, the only issue is the chaingrab... I think I've already talked about this earlier.

i found that when luigi uses his down B tornado as a recovering tool its path is fairly predictable and if you have good timing you can spike him :O thats what i do against my friend who mains luigi at least.
his jab and nair have epic priority but i think our fair/bair beats them if spaced right.

once luigi dthrows you whats the best direction to DI/ whats the best move to throw out to try and avoid being combo'd? i've had a bit of luck with shine if the luigi isn't right on you after the throw

Can't you just shine spike him then?

And iunno try jumping away and bairing. No clue there.

 

[tekkie]

the only issue is the chaingrab... I think I've already talked about this earlier.

pretty much this

 

[Goldenadept]

yeah that CG makes it horrible for wolf against pika, just like it does the MU against D3 doesnt matter how much better you are then the pika when you have close to 100% more damage than he does

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

I'm assuming that the main subject here is still Peach since that's what it says in the Title of this thread.

It helps to know a Match-Up when you look at it from both character's point of view, so here's the analysis of this Match-Up from the Peach players' point of view.

-Wolf- 45-55

Discussion: Posts 687 - 752

What to Watch out For:
-His blaster camping
-his smashes move him a lot and have wayyy more range than yours
-his recovery can spike
-Wall of back airs, wall of lots of moves. His range bugs a lot.
-He will shine whenever you get close

Matchup Mentality:
-Be patient and watch out for that range, find a way to get your down air combos in
-You want gimps in this matchup - with moves that send at odd angles (like racket) or by edgeguarding
-Neutral air out prioritizes his recovery
-Short hop Back airs can be useful though not totally reliable
-Chaingrab him ata low percents but watch out, if you aren't on frame he can shine out of it.

Did you know?
-Throwing turnips up can really mess up his approach due to him worrying about them when he reflects way too often/early. Good scaredsies tool.
-Can't let you do that, Star Fox...
-Lylat cruise is a great stage against him, especially his recovery
-his reflector is used as a 'counter' type move since it comes out quickly in 6 frames and messes up your setups

That's straight from the Peach boards.

 

[Semifer]

Why should Wolf reflect the turnips? There are way better options, and shine is not good because of its short startup but the invincibility starting in Frame one lasting for about 10 frames.

Why do you mention the Bair? I don't see the point why it has a special usage in this MU.

 

[Ishiey]

Thanks Lucky Pika Although I'm with Semifer about the turnips... it'll usually leave us in a more vulnerable position unless we take a defensive option straight after it :<

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

Yeah, I know you Wolf players are smarter than that. You know Peach could just do other attacks while holding the turnip, so trying to reflect them can be a no-no. D:

I was just showing that side of the last discussion. Peach boards need re-discussing with MU's as well~

UGH, I can't give much on this MU. I'm going to need uber help from someone like Praxis or Dark Pch. for this. <_<

 

[Goldenadept]

question: does our fair when properly spaced beat out peaches? and is this discussion still even going on?