Out of order, new matchup thread coming soon!

[thegreatkazoo]

hahah i was just being a troll. didn't know there were official wolf mentors out there o_O

Yeah, it's on the Smashboards Information Network.

 

[Ishiey]

I think it'd be best to give the matchups a break for a while tbh, especially because the SBR is coming out with new character discussions. Until they're done with that and out with the next tier list, I think we'd be better off focusing on the punishment thread and other projects that won't fluctuate as much as matchups do. If you're still up to running a matchup thread after that happens though, you have my support :3

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I think it'd be best to give the matchups a break for a while tbh, especially because the SBR is coming out with new character discussions. Until they're done with that and out with the next tier list, I think we'd be better off focusing on the punishment thread and other projects that won't fluctuate as much as matchups do. If you're still up to running a matchup thread after that happens though, you have my support :3

It's all good homes.

Update us as needed on that char discussion, I'm interested if they'll place Wolf any higher.

Thanks.

 

[Ishiey]

It's all good homes.

Update us as needed on that char discussion, I'm interested if they'll place Wolf any higher.

Thanks.

Will do :3 I doubt they'll be moving Wolf up though... just a feeling :x

 

[castorpollux]

Will do :3 I doubt they'll be moving Wolf up though... just a feeling :x

why not? kain and choice have been making a lot of noise

 

[Ishiey]

There hasn't been any particular advancement in Wolf's metagame, despite what you said... although I feel like the majority of Wolf players still use their secondaries in tournaments to cover bad matchups, which probably will hinder his placement. It's really more of a feeling though lol, I don't know We'll see.

 

[castorpollux]

oh but there has! wolfs just haven't been using it.

 

[Ishiey]

Then, as far as those that make the tier list are concerned, it might as well not exist D:

Also, tell me lol, because if you're being serious I think I missed it >_>

 

[castorpollux]

Then, as far as those that make the tier list are concerned, it might as well not exist D:

Also, tell me lol, because if you're being serious I think I missed it >_>

wolfs aren't abusing running away reverse blaster (wolf's is one of the best characters to do this with) and different mixups he can do out of it


it's also a really cool way of camping and it looks nice and smooth

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Not gonna lie, there are a few matchups that are not helping Wolf move up the TL.

*coughfalcocough*

Who will be the first to actually get this matchup down I wonder?

 

[castorpollux]

Not gonna lie, there are a few matchups that are not helping Wolf move up the TL.

*coughfalcocough*

Who will be the first to actually get this matchup down I wonder?

that matchup is actually down actually lol. It's a close matchup actually

 

[Semifer]

wolfs aren't abusing running away reverse blaster (wolf's is one of the best characters to do this with) and different mixups he can do out of it


it's also a really cool way of camping and it looks nice and smooth

I used to do this for some time but I honestly don't see why it's better than just short hop away und blaster. You have more options during a jump, can still control your momentum and you can control the height of the blaster out of a SH so there is a higher chance to shield stab or to hit someone out of a short hop (character depending though).

 

[castorpollux]

I used to do this for some time but I honestly don't see why it's better than just short hop away und blaster. You have more options during a jump, can still control your momentum and you can control the height of the blaster out of a SH so there is a higher chance to shield stab or to hit someone out of a short hop (character depending though).

how does it have more options than running away?

once you jump you inherently have less options. also, the point of it isn't to rack up a ton of damage, it's to get metaknight to jump in the air

 

[Ishiey]

that matchup is actually down actually lol. It's a close matchup actually

Yeah, Wolf doesn't really have any runaway MUs :O

how does it have more options than running away?

once you jump you inherently have less options. also, the point of it isn't to rack up a ton of damage, it's to get metaknight to jump in the air

NOW I get it

 

[_Kain_]

I actually did a lot of runaway blaster against Lain's MK in a friendly last month. Meta's still really fast and can close the distance quick

 

[castorpollux]

I actually did a lot of runaway blaster against Lain's MK in a friendly last month. Meta's still really fast and can close the distance quick

if you see him closing the distance, don't blaster. (the goal is to get him in the air, and if he didn't jump you have to continue to run away)


you still have lots and lots of options if he doesn't jump, but the main thing you want to do is zone away from his ftilt/dtilt range.

figure out away to avoid those, cross over, and do the running away retreating blaster again.

once he jumps, that's the best chance you have at punishing mk

 

[Semifer]

how does it have more options than running away?

once you jump you inherently have less options. also, the point of it isn't to rack up a ton of damage, it's to get metaknight to jump in the air

Well if you jump away you can still decide to Bair him instead of blastering if he follows you. You can jump out of running, but then there is the jump startup, and a rising Bair will not hit MK for example.
You can control your momentum in the air which is the most important point.

Hm this is too much theory stuff at all, I'm gonna try this again next time. When I think about this there are still some pretty good things you can do out of a dash (shield, jump (-shine), pivot grab, blaster).

 

[Yikarur]

Well if you jump away you can still decide to Bair him instead of blastering if he follows you. You can jump out of running, but then there is the jump startup, and a rising Bair will not hit MK for example.
You can control your momentum in the air which is the most important point.

Hm this is too much theory stuff at all, I'm gonna try this again next time. When I think about this there are still some pretty good things you can do out of a dash (shield, jump (-shine), pivot grab, blaster).

you suck for not being online in msn D:

E: fine :3

 

[castorpollux]

Well if you jump away you can still decide to Bair him instead of blastering if he follows you. You can jump out of running, but then there is the jump startup, and a rising Bair will not hit MK for example.
You can control your momentum in the air which is the most important point.

Hm this is too much theory stuff at all, I'm gonna try this again next time. When I think about this there are still some pretty good things you can do out of a dash (shield, jump (-shine), pivot grab, blaster).

if mk is dashing at you, a short hop rising bair DOES hit mk,
you can also do a surprise RAR fair to hit him as well


once an MK sees you do a short hop, he can just run up to you and shield (AND THEY WILL DO THIS) which shuts down ALL your options

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If somebody dashes towards me I pivot grab
If he starts spotdodging I run behind him and pivot grab him then

Pivot grab *****

The end

 

[castorpollux]

If somebody dashes towards me I pivot grab
If he starts spotdodging I run behind him and pivot grab him then

Pivot grab *****

The end

^another option you can't do if you short hop

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well if he tries to dash -> shield my shorthops then I just do a FF to grab if he does it a lot *shrug*

 

[castorpollux]

Well if he tries to dash -> shield my shorthops then I just do a FF to grab if he does it a lot *shrug*

and if you do that a lot, he can just run up and up B. (LOVES THEORYCRAFTING)



bottom line though, by not jumping, you have more options

 

[Ishiey]

Lol Wolf boards and theorycrafting

 

[_Kain_]

All im gonna say is id rather stay on the floor n get ***** since being in the air when their in there shield most likely means ur gonna eat alot more dmg in the air from their strings then when their on the floor.

Uair, Up B, Nair strings> ftilt, grab strings

 

[PMC66]

"I'm not sure but is Fair > than Marth's fair? someone test that out. Punish any of his missed smashes with a fsmash. Light so he's pretty easy to kill. All i have to say is Wolf's aerial game beats his"

Wolf's Fair does beat Marth's Fair in terms of priority but not range.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

"I'm not sure but is Fair > than Marth's fair? someone test that out. Punish any of his missed smashes with a fsmash. Light so he's pretty easy to kill. All i have to say is Wolf's aerial game beats his"

Wolf's Fair does beat Marth's Fair in terms of priority but not range.

Have fun actually trying to get it to work though.

If you miss, you're automatically futtbu*ked.

EDIT: Ok, some 2nd thoughts on this. I would consider fair to be a stock dependent move. I would only try it if I had nothing to lose (and this goes both ways.)

 

[_Kain_]

How is it stock dependent u can use a fair whenever a Marth whiffs a fair and is in range or even if u read a fair n react accordingly..n doesnt really matter since bair is a much better option

 

[castorpollux]

How is it stock dependent u can use a fair whenever a Marth whiffs a fair and is in range or even if u read a fair n react accordingly..n doesnt really matter since bair is a much better option

sometimes fair is a better option due to potential juggling damage

 

[thegreatkazoo]

How is it stock dependent u can use a fair whenever a Marth whiffs a fair and is in range or even if u read a fair n react accordingly..n doesnt really matter since bair is a much better option

I was talking about using a fair in general (more so for OOS application or something like that...)

 

[_Kain_]

sometimes fair is a better option due to potential juggling damage

oh i know that i was jus confused why he said fair was stock dependent n made it seem like its a big risk to use it

I was talking about using a fair in general (more so for OOS application or something like that...)

with who?

 

[thegreatkazoo]

oh i know that i was jus confused why he said fair was stock dependent n made it seem like its a big risk to use it

with who?

This guy...

"I'm not sure but is Fair > than Marth's fair? someone test that out. Punish any of his missed smashes with a fsmash. Light so he's pretty easy to kill. All i have to say is Wolf's aerial game beats his"

Wolf's Fair does beat Marth's Fair in terms of priority but not range.

 

[_Kain_]

this guy...ur not even stating why u said using fair is stock dependent basically saying its not good to use...why dont u say why already? Has higher priority than Marth's, good for starting juggles...so why is it stock dependent???

 

[castorpollux]

this guy...ur not even stating why u said using fair is stock dependent basically saying its not good to use...why dont u say why already? Has higher priority than Marth's, good for starting juggles...so why is it stock dependent???

It is stock dependent

If you are up by 1 stock use fair a lot
if you are up by 2 stocks use fair a lot
if you are down by 1 stock use fair a lot
if you are down by 2 stocks use fair a lot

Any other time, don't use fair

 

[_Kain_]

It is stock dependent

If you are up by 1 stock use fair a lot
if you are up by 2 stocks use fair a lot
if you are down by 1 stock use fair a lot
if you are down by 2 stocks use fair a lot

Any other time, don't use fair

My eyes were blind but now i seeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

 

[Ishiey]

Okay guys, that's enough -________- Don't make me infract people while I'm on vacation lol

 

[thegreatkazoo]

this guy...ur not even stating why u said using fair is stock dependent basically saying its not good to use...why dont u say why already? Has higher priority than Marth's, good for starting juggles...so why is it stock dependent???

If you miss the fair, it's an easy punish for Marth.

If he perfect shields it, it's a fsmash. Or a grab, tilt, or sword dance.

 

[Ishiey]

... same thing goes for Marth's fair then, pretty much.

 

[_Kain_]

If you miss the fair, it's an easy punish for Marth.

If he perfect shields it, it's a fsmash. Or a grab, tilt, or sword dance.

This logic applies to almost every single move in the game hope u know

 

[thegreatkazoo]

... same thing goes for Marth's fair then, pretty much.

Duly noted.

Someone is gonna have get me some frame data on the two fairs here, because I have played this MU extensively and still think Marth>Wolf fair.

I'll dig around...