Damax
Smash Lord
its annoying online. but online there's a ****load of stuff annoying: powershielding, dodging, run grabbing etc...
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Ottawa Ontario Canada
- Thread starter Krilj
- Start date
- Status
Cbone
Smash Journeyman
Yes, yes it was a big change. But as i discussed with SAUS it sort of depended on what character you played in melee. Me maining falco in melee caused me to have to change a lottt with the way i played brawl. But SAUS on the other hand mained link...who still has a very similar play style in brawl. I never said that brawl wouldn't be good for the community, of course a lot more people will be comming out. All i was saying in my above posts is that for me, Brawl was a semi-big change. The game is still essentially the same but every trick/mindgame/tech i used with falco can not be done in brawl OR is less effective. So yes, it was a big change.
Suo
Smash Apprentice
For me, yes the lag was quite bad, at least a half-second throughout the whole match, sometimes spikes of more. Thats interesting that you had none, I guess that proves the theory that lag isn't universal in brawl.
I'm actually quite enjoying playing brawl against different kinds of spam and camping. Maybe it's just me, but it is so god**** satisfying when I can get any of the Pokemon through that barrage of projectiles, and start eating into the character.
Roll Punishing will definitely come with time, there's too much lag on the end of most rolls for them to be spammed as players improve.
The only time I ever get frustrated against spam or camping is during wifi matches when Im lagging. You feel gimped, and get punished almost regardless of skill. That being said, you do tend to learn how to beat those strategies quicker, when faced with a .5 second delay between ever input, it makes you really methodical in trying to get around it.
Again, great games Testrider, your Lucas is beast. Do you B-Stick? I saw a sort of wave-bounce thing happening.
tect
Smash Journeyman
almost..100.... pages!!
i'll also give a shout when i'm back in otown
oh, and thanks mitch for watching my back in the mtl thread. defence from noobs is next to godliness. your post = win
and if i could comment. even melee's advanced metagame aside, even the most basic things were changed in the transition to brawl. recoveries were buffed. techs (and chasing) do'nt really exist UNTIL people learn to abuse those moves that cause a tripping-like reaction (e.g. a failed knee), no CCing (i think it was pretty basic), shield-grabbing is too good now, and throws are like, ridiculous (next to useless for most chars) now. and there's more of course, but i have lecturezz.
later o-town crew.
i'll also give a shout when i'm back in otown
oh, and thanks mitch for watching my back in the mtl thread. defence from noobs is next to godliness. your post = win
and if i could comment. even melee's advanced metagame aside, even the most basic things were changed in the transition to brawl. recoveries were buffed. techs (and chasing) do'nt really exist UNTIL people learn to abuse those moves that cause a tripping-like reaction (e.g. a failed knee), no CCing (i think it was pretty basic), shield-grabbing is too good now, and throws are like, ridiculous (next to useless for most chars) now. and there's more of course, but i have lecturezz.
later o-town crew.
Unexplanetory
Smash Cadet
So almost no one from Ottawa is on to play Brawl, whats the deal or am I just missing something?
Suo
Smash Apprentice
I've been only going on Wi-fi rarely now, basically because of the lag.
It makes more sense for me to be in training mode than play with .5second lag and totally screw up muscle memory/timing, I've heard it can anyway.
That, and Im really busy at school right now.
It makes more sense for me to be in training mode than play with .5second lag and totally screw up muscle memory/timing, I've heard it can anyway.
That, and Im really busy at school right now.
Fogel
Smash Lord
edit: Smashfest is on tomorrow, in case I didn't say so already.
I'm not on Wi-fi much, it's hard to have a serious game with half-second lag so I'm just on to kill time/see new silly strategies that people come up with. Apparently Sonic can infinite stall!
I'm not on Wi-fi much, it's hard to have a serious game with half-second lag so I'm just on to kill time/see new silly strategies that people come up with. Apparently Sonic can infinite stall!
Unexplanetory
Smash Cadet
Im surprised so many people still get lag when your so close. Have you all DMZ'd the Wii and changed the routers channel to 1 or 11? I have got nothing but blue connections with everyone in Ottawa.
Jazriel
Smash Ace
If you're on somewhat regularly I'll see if I can make an effort to be on more so we can play. I haven't added the new people since Fogel made the first list thingamabob but I'll add yours soon. I've had little to no problems with Wi-Fi, though two days ago at night it was ridiculous. 5-10 seconds of fine gameplay, than like a minute of lag so massive the screen didn't change. After 3 games of that my friend just disconnected (it's all on his end anyways). Yesterday it was fine however.
Suo
Smash Apprentice
Seems like the general consensus of Backroom members is that Brawl has no future as a really competitive game, except camp-fest play ala OverSwarm.
That's so disheartening...Im thinking of just playing brawl casually.
Why put soo much time into Brawl if it's a game that doesn't reward your hard work?
That's so disheartening...Im thinking of just playing brawl casually.
Why put soo much time into Brawl if it's a game that doesn't reward your hard work?
tect
Smash Journeyman
where'd you get the opinion of the BR members?
melee was seen as sort of the same in the beginning.
powershield all spammers FTW
melee was seen as sort of the same in the beginning.
powershield all spammers FTW
Jazriel
Smash Ace
>_>Seems like the general consensus of Backroom members is that Brawl has no future as a really competitive game, except camp-fest play ala OverSwarm.
That's so disheartening...Im thinking of just playing brawl casually.
Why put soo much time into Brawl if it's a game that doesn't reward your hard work?
C'mon Suo, you should realize by now that 99.9% of the people on Smashboards are ********. BRers are no exception. There are two reasons why I'm right and they're wrong:
1) It's impossible to understand a game fully until RIGOROUS testing is done. There's a good reason why StarCraft II is going into a year of Beta & recruiting pros from Korea. Anyone who settles on a decisive opinion about Brawl is just stupid.
2) Who are these people to decide what is competitive and what is not? Are they top level players? Have they discovered and utilized every tech Brawl has to offer? Have they definitively created a tier list? **** no. They're ********.
Point is, Brawl is good so far, and from what I can tell, will get better. Besides, why not play Brawl? There are pro Tetris players. Tetris doesn't have any advanced techs and has almost no meta-game, like c'mon. 'Tis guud, 'tis guud.
Suo
Smash Apprentice
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158791
That's the thread that started my thinking this way. Gimpyfish was by far the most enthusiastic pro about brawl. He brings up some sobering points about Brawl's engine and lack of hit-stun.
Brawl will be competitive no doubt. I'm just not sure that it will be competitive in a fun way, that I want to devote my time to. I've always been a very competitive person, in everything I do, and I was hoping Brawl would be another outlet for that energy.
I might be being too hasty, but the issues seem hard to overcome, barring a absolutely game changing discovery which seems unlikely.
That being said, Im still going to play brawl semi-competitively, in the sense that I'll try to win every match I play, and try to get better at the game. I just won't be spending countless hours trying to increase my technical skill to the upper limits of my potential.
So, in short, my outlook on Brawl has simply changed. I now see it as likely only a fun past-time, rather than something I wanna strive to be amazing at.
These thoughts and feelings could change, but for now it's how I feel.
That's the thread that started my thinking this way. Gimpyfish was by far the most enthusiastic pro about brawl. He brings up some sobering points about Brawl's engine and lack of hit-stun.
Brawl will be competitive no doubt. I'm just not sure that it will be competitive in a fun way, that I want to devote my time to. I've always been a very competitive person, in everything I do, and I was hoping Brawl would be another outlet for that energy.
I might be being too hasty, but the issues seem hard to overcome, barring a absolutely game changing discovery which seems unlikely.
That being said, Im still going to play brawl semi-competitively, in the sense that I'll try to win every match I play, and try to get better at the game. I just won't be spending countless hours trying to increase my technical skill to the upper limits of my potential.
So, in short, my outlook on Brawl has simply changed. I now see it as likely only a fun past-time, rather than something I wanna strive to be amazing at.
These thoughts and feelings could change, but for now it's how I feel.
Jazriel
Smash Ace
Ah, that thread. Gimpyfish brings out a point, but the point is moot.
His argument is that there's no hitstun, so what? This isn't melee 2.0. Combos don't exist. People (who are ********) think it needs to exist for the game to be competitive.
Remember the 0-to-death combo I pulled off on your Ivysaur? Explain to me how that happened. Gimpy's idea that no hitstun diminishes the games potential falls apart under that evidence. It was pure skill (and a little luck) that allowed me to "combo" you. It's for this reason, that Brawl (in my opinion) will be even MORE competitive than melee. No longer inescapable combos. No longer chain throwing lower tier chars from 0-to-death. Removing the hitstun was a genius step towards making Brawl far more competitive.
It's exactly like the "tech skill vs. mindgames" argument. Tech skill didn't actually do anything other than allow you to play the game. Once you could play the game, really play the game, then it was all mindgames. Brawl has it's share of tech skill already (like 2 weeks in) and now with no hitstun, with improved air-dodging, and "more defensive" options, Brawl will be just as, if not more, capable of skillful play compared to melee.
Also, like I've said already. The game needs to be out for longer. We already know all the defensive options from melee, but with a new game there are probably even more defensive techs and completely new offensive techs.
It is for this reason, that Gimpy is ********. He's making a definitive opinion about the game before he even knows what it is.
His argument is that there's no hitstun, so what? This isn't melee 2.0. Combos don't exist. People (who are ********) think it needs to exist for the game to be competitive.
Remember the 0-to-death combo I pulled off on your Ivysaur? Explain to me how that happened. Gimpy's idea that no hitstun diminishes the games potential falls apart under that evidence. It was pure skill (and a little luck) that allowed me to "combo" you. It's for this reason, that Brawl (in my opinion) will be even MORE competitive than melee. No longer inescapable combos. No longer chain throwing lower tier chars from 0-to-death. Removing the hitstun was a genius step towards making Brawl far more competitive.
It's exactly like the "tech skill vs. mindgames" argument. Tech skill didn't actually do anything other than allow you to play the game. Once you could play the game, really play the game, then it was all mindgames. Brawl has it's share of tech skill already (like 2 weeks in) and now with no hitstun, with improved air-dodging, and "more defensive" options, Brawl will be just as, if not more, capable of skillful play compared to melee.
Also, like I've said already. The game needs to be out for longer. We already know all the defensive options from melee, but with a new game there are probably even more defensive techs and completely new offensive techs.
It is for this reason, that Gimpy is ********. He's making a definitive opinion about the game before he even knows what it is.
Suo
Smash Apprentice
You bring up some good points Jaz, and largely I agree with you, or at least I want to.
The reduced hit-stun is only one problem though. So far, and likely for the forseeable future, Brawl rewards camping more than any other option in the game. Offense yields no reward, you get one hit, but then the defensive options are so overpowering compared to the offensive options you're put back to square one. So if two equally skilled players play, the camping player is at a huge advantage, and will most likely win.
I really can't explain it as thoughtfully as Mookie, and a few others did in that thread, but essentially Offense is not rewarded in Brawl. This leads to a stale and boring game.
I truly was hoping Brawl would turn out the way you talk about Jaz, with mindgames reigning supreme, and creating custom combos on the fly, but it just seems like Offense is too gimped to make this a viable strategy, at least while camping exists.
The reduced hit-stun is only one problem though. So far, and likely for the forseeable future, Brawl rewards camping more than any other option in the game. Offense yields no reward, you get one hit, but then the defensive options are so overpowering compared to the offensive options you're put back to square one. So if two equally skilled players play, the camping player is at a huge advantage, and will most likely win.
I really can't explain it as thoughtfully as Mookie, and a few others did in that thread, but essentially Offense is not rewarded in Brawl. This leads to a stale and boring game.
I truly was hoping Brawl would turn out the way you talk about Jaz, with mindgames reigning supreme, and creating custom combos on the fly, but it just seems like Offense is too gimped to make this a viable strategy, at least while camping exists.
Cbone
Smash Journeyman
*sigh* good job Suo now i read the whole thing as well. haha
raginbull911
Smash Rookie
Hey guys,
I've lurked on Smashboards for a while, and finally found this thread lol. I live in Barrhaven (Nepean). My Brawl FC is 5198-2183-8059
I've lurked on Smashboards for a while, and finally found this thread lol. I live in Barrhaven (Nepean). My Brawl FC is 5198-2183-8059
WilldaBeast
Smash Apprentice
Hey guys, I think this is a pretty cool thread so, I thought I'd get in on it. I live in Kanata just a little while from The Centrum and I'd like to play some of you guys.
Unexplanetory
Smash Cadet
I'm down to play anyone, just add me to messenger so we can coordinate times.
Jazriel
Smash Ace
Eh, I still don't see where all these arguments about offensive potential is harder come from. I have no problem punishing people when I've correctly predicted what they're going to do. There's a good reason I can tech chase with Bowser and G&W up to 80% on my noob friends. I realize I'm not pro, but c'mon, where are these all-pro tourneys that these guys are getting their info from?
I read some of Mookierah's replies, from what I can tell, everyone is playing Brawl as though they're an idiot.
What I don't understand, is that if you can hit an enemy, and they can hit you back because of the low hitstun, why can't you just hit them back immediately? Why is it in all these discussions why Brawl sucks, one can never counter their OBVIOUS retaliation? After all, if one knows they're going to attack INSTANTLY (which is bull**** itself, hitstun is fine in Brawl) then why can't one deal with it?
And why is it that only campers have defensive benefits? Why can't the person who is approaching also have the benefits of improved power shielding and faster spot-dodges?
SAUS's Ike had no problem dealing with my Thunderjolt spam (the first person I've seen deal with it so easily), and computers approach arrow-spamming Pit just fine.
The problem is that everyone is too stupid. They expect to mindgame into a combo and then from there have the combo deal itself out. In Brawl (as I see it), mindgames are needed 24/7. Until you can explain why I can't 0-to-death combo people (which I've done plenty (huzzah noob friends)), it's all a load of crap. There is nothing that has been definitively proven to show that Brawl is in someway inferiour to Melee. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying that right now, all these "intelligent" people deserve quotes around the word intelligent.
I read some of Mookierah's replies, from what I can tell, everyone is playing Brawl as though they're an idiot.
What I don't understand, is that if you can hit an enemy, and they can hit you back because of the low hitstun, why can't you just hit them back immediately? Why is it in all these discussions why Brawl sucks, one can never counter their OBVIOUS retaliation? After all, if one knows they're going to attack INSTANTLY (which is bull**** itself, hitstun is fine in Brawl) then why can't one deal with it?
And why is it that only campers have defensive benefits? Why can't the person who is approaching also have the benefits of improved power shielding and faster spot-dodges?
SAUS's Ike had no problem dealing with my Thunderjolt spam (the first person I've seen deal with it so easily), and computers approach arrow-spamming Pit just fine.
The problem is that everyone is too stupid. They expect to mindgame into a combo and then from there have the combo deal itself out. In Brawl (as I see it), mindgames are needed 24/7. Until you can explain why I can't 0-to-death combo people (which I've done plenty (huzzah noob friends)), it's all a load of crap. There is nothing that has been definitively proven to show that Brawl is in someway inferiour to Melee. I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying that right now, all these "intelligent" people deserve quotes around the word intelligent.
Fogel
Smash Lord
@New people: You might want to PM Krilj to have your FCs added to the Ottawa list on the first page.
My apologies to Mason and Jeff for being so late, and to anyone else who may have shown up right at 5 but left because I wasn't home. I got a new job and yesterday was my last day at the previous job, so I had a bunch of stuff I had to take care of first.
As for the whole Melee vs. Brawl thing, I find I'm liking Brawl a bit more than before. I'm still not sure if I prefer it over Melee though. For the moment I'll continute playing both.
Btw, for those who wanted to see that terrible campfest Snake vs. Rob video, I got the link.
WARNING: This match is very painful to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj6ZLFjtNVI
My apologies to Mason and Jeff for being so late, and to anyone else who may have shown up right at 5 but left because I wasn't home. I got a new job and yesterday was my last day at the previous job, so I had a bunch of stuff I had to take care of first.
As for the whole Melee vs. Brawl thing, I find I'm liking Brawl a bit more than before. I'm still not sure if I prefer it over Melee though. For the moment I'll continute playing both.
Btw, for those who wanted to see that terrible campfest Snake vs. Rob video, I got the link.
WARNING: This match is very painful to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj6ZLFjtNVI
Jazriel
Smash Ace
It's fine Fogel. As always I/we were the first ones there so no one left.
I also think a tourney should be looked into, it'd be fun with all the new people that are playing Brawl. Hell, maybe we could post ads at game stores like EB and random other people will come. There were like 1000 preorders in Ottawa for Brawl.
Damax
Smash Lord
thos guy's sucks. snake's grenade get to 10% damage -_- seriously camping like that seemed only to get the game last longer.
Fogel
Smash Lord
Canada Revenue Agency
BC AL
Smash Journeyman
oi im back after my painful and backaching move to carp ahhaha
am i still allowed ther and all Fogel? or has ther been too many ppl ther
and btw ANYONE INTERESTED IN MELEE? XD i play brawl too i just prefer melee over brawl, so do u guys still do melee ther?
i main toon link and marth now... no more grab combos with IC...:/
am i still allowed ther and all Fogel? or has ther been too many ppl ther
and btw ANYONE INTERESTED IN MELEE? XD i play brawl too i just prefer melee over brawl, so do u guys still do melee ther?
i main toon link and marth now... no more grab combos with IC...:/
Unexplanetory
Smash Cadet
uhh.... if your saying there aren't anymore grab combos with IC in brawl your quite mistaken.... I can 0-76 someone with IC (Offline since lag interferes) in their chain grabs...
Jazriel
Smash Ace
IC's are also easier to desynch in Brawl, so with your crazy tech skills with them Al, you should be able to pick them up quite easily. I would recommend it too, because the infinite throw -> throw -> throw -> throw etc combos are cool. lol.
Damax
Smash Lord
Unexplanetory
Smash Cadet
I dunno if anyone cares but here's a video of me and a friend Alti playing (Pit VS Snake). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs0AIEy7fCU um, there is a black bar over the top of the screen due to my ****ty camera and ****ty TV. But whatever it was a good fight none the less.
Fogel
Smash Lord
You are of course still welcome. And yes, we do still play some Melee, though most of the new people are only interested in Brawl, so most TVs will have Brawl going.
Suo
Smash Apprentice
My lag seems a bit better lately, so I'll be checking wifi periodically today. Look for me if you wanna play.
Playing some nerfed-Sheik has renewed my enthusiasm for Brawl, such a fun character to play! Despite the lack of kill moves, just a really really smooth play-style.
Playing some nerfed-Sheik has renewed my enthusiasm for Brawl, such a fun character to play! Despite the lack of kill moves, just a really really smooth play-style.
ThatGuy
Smash Master
I saw you on TL.net attack, Jaz =)
Suo
Smash Apprentice
Ah okay, that makes sense then. PT was far better than the othersjust as a heads up, the lucario/metaknight is my 11 year old bro, and the poketrainer was me both timesgg, but i have homework to do
.Lag was pretty bad, but the PT Ditto was fun. I forgot about the elemental weaknesses a few times, Charizard got owned by Squirtles upsmash at like 90%, thats crazy!
Hey guys! I didn't know there was an Ottawa Smash community!
I'm 20 years old from Stittsville and I've been Smashing since 64 came out. I never joined the competitive community but my friend and I got pretty addicted to Melee and we pushed each other to get pretty **** good. Good for casuals I guess.
Currently, I'm working a 4-month Co-op semester in Scarborough (GTA... barf), but I'll be moving back to Stittsville in three weeks. Can't wait. I have played Brawl exactly once. The Wii is in Stittsville. But I got to try it out when I was visiting my parents this weekend and I can't wait to start playing it 4-5 hours a day this summer.
Wish I had found out about other Smashers in O-town sooner. Me and my friend got pretty sick of playing each other over and over. He played Sheik and Marth while I played Pikachu and Pichu (I've been loyal to the rat since 64). So you can guess how I did. But I finally picked up Peach when I got sick of losing. It was kind of sad how it took me like two weeks to get better with Peach than I was with Pikachu. Anyways, I'll be maining Pika in Brawl no matter how good/bad he turns out. And I guess I'll pick an alt or two on top of that.
I added the MSN addy from the first post. I'll let you know my Wii contact when I move back to Stittsville and get back into the game.
I'm very curious to hear about the competitive Smash scene.
I'm 20 years old from Stittsville and I've been Smashing since 64 came out. I never joined the competitive community but my friend and I got pretty addicted to Melee and we pushed each other to get pretty **** good. Good for casuals I guess.
Currently, I'm working a 4-month Co-op semester in Scarborough (GTA... barf), but I'll be moving back to Stittsville in three weeks. Can't wait. I have played Brawl exactly once. The Wii is in Stittsville
. But I got to try it out when I was visiting my parents this weekend and I can't wait to start playing it 4-5 hours a day this summer.Wish I had found out about other Smashers in O-town sooner. Me and my friend got pretty sick of playing each other over and over. He played Sheik and Marth while I played Pikachu and Pichu (I've been loyal to the rat since 64). So you can guess how I did. But I finally picked up Peach when I got sick of losing. It was kind of sad how it took me like two weeks to get better with Peach than I was with Pikachu. Anyways, I'll be maining Pika in Brawl no matter how good/bad he turns out. And I guess I'll pick an alt or two on top of that.
I added the MSN addy from the first post. I'll let you know my Wii contact when I move back to Stittsville and get back into the game.
I'm very curious to hear about the competitive Smash scene.
Cbone
Smash Journeyman
zomg i was there 2! haha SC FTW. 60 minute TvT FTW
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