Ottawa Ontario Canada

[Locke)]

Oh and for the record here is KillaOR's "MLG UBER PRO" Tier List:

Marth
Pit
Ike
Sheik/Zelda
Dedede
rest of chars
jigglypuff (K I added this in)

Discuss.

 

[arsenic41]

I don't know...I think 'rest of chars" should be top tier, I also think That Metaknight should be in the top.

Also: I think that Gannon should be on that list just because he is that epic. And we should record some matches or something, we haven't done that since we played melee. And I don't mind a crew match.

 

[Damax]

Ike is overrated.

 

[Cbone]

yea i've seen meta knight winning tournaments and i find him really cheap..maybe not #1, but certainly up there. Also no toon link???

 

[IvanEva]

What? I thought that Lucas was officially god tier... I mean, he does come from a kick-*** game. Everybody, go import Mother 3 right now!

*ahem*

Hey Suo, good matches last night. Pokémon Trainer's pretty neat. Even though I won all of the battles you gave my little dudes a good workout.

Here's a few things that I noticed about you (ignorning every lag-induced suicide. Yeah, it was pretty bad last night. I missed, like, three tethers; the timing was so bad. Nintendo is clearly new to online.):

- Flamethrower! You only used this ONCE but when you did it was killer. Definitely much better than Bowser's Melee breath. After you used it I was all, like, "Oh, ****. This Charizard is pretty scary!". However, you then never used it again. I don't play as Pokémon Trainer at all so perhaps I'm just caught up in its novelty value, but it was pretty strong. Perhaps it can be used as an edge-guard?

- Edge-guarding Falco: I spiked you several times with Falco and most were unintentional. It's important to remember that Falco's main method of getting back on the stage is his spiking forward-B dash thingy. Edge-guarding Falco, from what I've seen thus far, is best done from above. Charizard's down-air is a spike, right? Perhaps that might work. On the other hand, and I might be really off on this one - I'll have to test it out later, but I think that Falco's forward-B's attack will cancel out with another attack without hurting you. Like, I swear I saw myself just dash through you (and others) without doing any damage because it 'hit' an attack (but kept going through). If that's the case, just be sure to have something sticking out if you're ever in-between Falco and the ledge.

- Crawling: I obviously love PK Fire/laser spamming so to counter that, at least one option, you could crawl more. You only did it once. Most of the time you just stayed ducking. I don't know about Char and Ivy but Squirtle at least can crawl (although that **** turtle was so hard to hit with projectiles already).

- Ivysaur: I can tell that you hate him. You'd usually use him for an up-air (which really hurts :S ) then you'd be, like, "Back in your Pokéball you ugly, disgusting little frog!". He had a great keep-away game and those leaves are faster then I had first thought. You made an anti-PK Fire wall. You also grabbed me with Ivysaur consistently. I can tell that Charizard's your favorite but don't skimp out on the little froggie. I felt like he was your best yet least used.

- Attacking from the ledge: I can't remember you ever doing anything but attacking from the ledge... which I then followed up with a grab on most occasions. Try to mix it up a bit. If I'm just standing there waiting for the attack, don't do it.

- Lastly, your Squirtle's a ninja. Very fast, annoyingly hard to hit, and with good attacks. However, he was almost the complete opposite of your Ivy. Whereas with Ivy you were patient and countered a lot, especially with grabs, your Squirtle had a tendancy of rushing in a bit too much. He was easy to shield and then grab because he attacked a lot but never grabbed. Throw some grabs in and mix up your attacks and he'll be less predictable.

Overall though, good matches. Our Marth ditto was pretty funny. I can't really remember but were we BOTH white Marth?

 

[Damax]

- Lastly, your Squirtle's a ninja.

erm... squirtle is a ninja turtle, so no biggie there.

 

[Fogel]

Brian, could you get Lunar 2 from your friend anyways? That way, you have it at your house and can easily bring it when you guys drop by next time.

 

[WarranThad]

lunar 2 was much funner than lunar 1

 

[Jazriel]

Oh and for the record here is KillaOR's "MLG UBER PRO" Tier List:

Marth
Pit
Ike
Sheik/Zelda
Dedede
rest of chars
jigglypuff (K I added this in)

Discuss.

Ugh. Fail fail fail fail fail.

No Lucas, Pikachu, Diddy or Meta Knight? Maybe not Lucas or Pikachu, but Diddy is absolute **** with his I'm-gonna-infinte-combo-you-with-bananas and Meta Knights stupidly fast and far reaching attacks. Marth is definitely a no. Any char with SAF (like DK) will destroy him. And Marth "sucks". He has no range and his tippers aren't THAT good.

Pit is just no. Ike is just no. Sheik maybe and Zelda no comment. And Jiggz for last place, meh. Watch computers combo with her, all I have to say.

 

[Cbone]

Marth and pit will be top..Ike...i think hes middle tier material. Shiek/zelda high tier. Dedede middle - high meta knight top etc.

 

[Suo]

*ahem*

Hey Suo, good matches last night. Pokémon Trainer's pretty neat. Even though I won all of the battles you gave my little dudes a good workout.

Overall though, good matches. Our Marth ditto was pretty funny. I can't really remember but were we BOTH white Marth?

Yea, it was pretty fun Ivan, it is too bad about the lag, I'm usually lagless but lately I think Nintendo's been overloaded, because in the last few days I've had constant minute lag.

You definitely wiped the floor with my PT, You being at a higher skill level than me.

I got into Melee about 3 months before brawl came out, so needless to say I was late on the scene, and certainly enjoying the learning curve of brawl.

As you noticed though, a lot of my fundamentals are lacking, and I certainly haven't developed too many mindgames yet, but then again my PT is in its seedling stages so I think it'll come with time.

Everything you said is so right! I can definitely remember key moments where those things came into play. I really appreciate the feedback, it'll certainly help my game in the future.

And yea the Marth Ditto was really funny, both white! hahaha.

I look forward to playing you in the coming weeks and months.




P.S. Fogel I was wondering about these SmashFests you keep mentioning.

Are they open to anyone in the Ottawa area? I know Myself and a friend who are very keen on getting good at brawl would love to attend! Thanks!

 

[Locke)]

I don't think metaknight is top material. High yes but not top. He is too light I find he dies too fast, and anyone that knows to look out for his downsmash and forward smash will rarely get killed.

I'm assuming SA is super armor? One or two moves with invincibility won't be enough to stop marth and I'll take on someone's DK or charizard or what have you to prove it.

When played properly ike is stupid. Check out the azen videos floating around youtube. Once you get past the noob smash-abuse rut, he has several lag free and overly powerful moves and the range to back everything up.

And gdorf computers in melee were imbalanced, but that didn't make gdorf top haha...****ing jabs and random up b's...

Zelda is really good at handling larger characters because of her lightning kick and her super buffed din's fire, while sheik can handle pesky chars. Combined they can fight any other roster character.

Dedede has the best sidedodge in the game, moves way too fast for the fat **** that he is, chain grab, damage, multiple jump combos, and good recovery. Ask cbone and saus how he does against toon link.

Diddy has bananas...sweet.

I'm undecided about pit. The fact that his recovery can be cancelled by one attack seems like a glaring weakness. He'll always be usable..but top?

Toon link looks naughty and I haven't had any experience testing his potential. All I know is his combos and second jump are whack, but his up b is, like link's, a little on the sketchy side.

Jigglypuff or ince climber for worst in game. If you disagree, nominate someone else and explain why. Saying "no comment" really doesn't help the discussion along. Now to avoid being a hypocrite: Rest is weak as ****, wall of pain seems seriously debuffed, just overall lack of power and ability. Iceclimbers w/o CG = two ******* with hammers, nothing spectacular. The blizz got buffed but yeah not a whole lotta good that's gonna do em.

That being said this was just one washed up smash player's opinion and is in no way a tier list.

Well that was fun, I'm gonna get some sleep cause I got kicked out of my girlfriend's house
.
..
...
....
/Flex

 

[Suo]

I'm thinking Pokemon Trainer will end up higher than most people expect on the tier list.

I'm so far beyond any kind of advanced strats with him yet, but he is in and of himself a counter-pick, with each character having big upsides, and often covering the other pokemon's downsides.

Charizard's Fair is ridiculous, it has Melee-Sheik's Fair Knockback, and even what seems to be a heavy dose of Hit-Stun. I'm still getting used to gimping with it, but I've gimped medium recovery characters with a F-throw->Fair from 13%

Squirtle has ridiculous speed and priority in the air, all of his aerials combo into each other. Combine that with a 'wave-dash' that was just discovered and he develops a whole nother level of ground-games.

Ivysaur's Bair can outprioritize Marth and Ike, if properly spaced. She's my least used Pokemon but already I can see that she could end up with an absolutely top keep-away, or mid-range pest game.

I could go more in depth on a lot of this stuff, but it's not really the place.



In short- Pokemon Trainer will be underused, and underestimated, with High or Top tier potential.

Finally, yes I suck with PT right now! loools, (that's to those who will say that they've worked my PT online! )

 

[Dice]

Did you at least finish your essay before heading over brian?

And Jazriel, gfto with "watch what the comps do with the char". And Marth is definetly top tier material. Maybe they toned down the "length" of his sword, but it is still a sword, meaning that he still has sick range. And super armor will do nothing vs marth? And if DK can easily beat marth because of a bit of super armor on a fully charged punch, please show me and teach me because I must be missing out on something.

ANd I agree with Suo, poke trainer will be high/upper tier. Each pokemon has potential and since it's really 3 chars mixed into one, it'll take a while before each of the chars get developed, but once they do, they will be quite good. And Suo, we must discuss poke trainer strats because ivysaur happens to be my favourite (and best) out of the three pokemon I don't think I have you on msn but I do have your brawl code, so hit me up on msn and we'll have to play online at some point.

 

[Fogel]

Ugh. Fail fail fail fail fail.

No Lucas, Pikachu, Diddy or Meta Knight? Maybe not Lucas or Pikachu, but Diddy is absolute **** with his I'm-gonna-infinte-combo-you-with-bananas and Meta Knights stupidly fast and far reaching attacks. Marth is definitely a no. Any char with SAF (like DK) will destroy him. And Marth "sucks". He has no range and his tippers aren't THAT good.

Pit is just no. Ike is just no. Sheik maybe and Zelda no comment. And Jiggz for last place, meh. Watch computers combo with her, all I have to say.

Marth is still good, I'm gonna have to play him a lot against you today and make you take that back I played DK a lot in Melee and Marth was definitely one of his worst matchups; I don't see that changing in Brawl. Also, show me these Diddy infinite banana tricks, if there's more Diddy h4x then I wanna learn them.

edit: Also, Jigglypuff is indeed terrible. Brian already gave the main reasons. I'd agree that Jiggs is the worst char in Brawl right now.

P.S. Fogel I was wondering about these SmashFests you keep mentioning.

Are they open to anyone in the Ottawa area? I know Myself and a friend who are very keen on getting good at brawl would love to attend! Thanks!

Yes they are, but I live in Nepean so it's kind of far for some people. We usually play Friday nights, though I sometimes make them Thursdays instead if something comes up. If you're interested I can PM you my address.

 

[Cbone]

the reason why i said Meta Knight to be top is because of the speed of all his moves. I was watching some tourney videos and every one was having trouble vs meta knight because he was spamming aerials, and if he missed he would down tilt or jab and it was making him really difficult to punish. He dies fast yes but as things go on he may get harder and harder to hit. Now, that makes him good, but i don't know if it makes him top. He will be up there somewhere though.

Marth is definitely going to be up there - fast and his fair. End of story.

We haven't really mentioned fox or wolf yet?

Fox has his dair which is really good for combo-ing, as is his up tilt. Also, i don't think his upsmash got nerfed by much it still kills quite nicely. I think fox will be up there somewhere as well maybe high? Although, he cant laser in the same way and without his shine combos characters like marth seem to do better against him.

Wolf - strong and good priority. I havent played him much, but i've read that a lot of people think he's broken so i thought i would mention him and try and get other ideas.

zelda/shiek, zelda definitely got a buff, and on top of what locke) said, i also think she feels a lot faster and all of her aerials got buffs.

jigglypuff , i just don't feel like she has the combo potential she did in the last game...and she was 10th highest in the last game so she's moving down i think.

AS FOR DEDEDE...i forgot his 2 best qualities. 1) locke), i was trying to suppress it, as i had forgotten all of the back air combos off the map. Basically whenever toon link was between dedede and the outside of the map(off the edge) it was just backair's no matter how i DI'd, if i went down, Dedede can still go down and get you and if i went up, he could still get you. It was traumatizing. That being said, when i switched to fox it seemed to be less effective. 2) the guy has four ****ing different taunts...like WTF IS THAT!?!?! Dedede's crouch > bombsoldier combo, waveshine, marth tipper, and falcon punch combined. Overpowered.

 

[Locke)]

Gimme My Money!

 

[TestRider]

You guys need to have a taste of my Lucas, or Chester's Snake.

 

[WarranThad]

chet's snake<my sheik

 

[Fogel]

Fox is broken again, I was messing around with him today and it's like I'm playing smash 64: dair->utilt->dair->utilt->dair->utilt->...repeat until you get bored/they are out of range of uptilt...->dair->usmash->DEAD!
or instead of usmash you can uair->DEAD!
or if you somehow dair them off the stage just shine->DEAD!

I think Fox is going to be the best (again). Dair has pretty much no lag, so it's very very hard to punish. Usmash, Fsmash, Uair, Nair, Bair are all still crazy good. Dair is more broken than SSBM because it leads to the above combos. You can still get shine trashkills about as easily as you could in SSBM. If you want to play defensive you can still laser camp. This time I may just sell out right away and play Fox too!



Test I added you to my Friends', get chesterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr cheetah to post his FC somewhere so I can add him too.

 

[Damax]

Fox is broken again, I was messing around with him today and it's like I'm playing smash 64: dair->utilt->dair->utilt->dair->utilt->...repeat until you get bored/they are out of range of uptilt...->dair->usmash->DEAD!
or instead of usmash you can uair->DEAD!
or if you somehow dair them off the stage just shine->DEAD!

I think Fox is going to be the best (again). Dair has pretty much no lag, so it's very very hard to punish. Usmash, Fsmash, Uair, Nair, Bair are all still crazy good. Dair is more broken than SSBM because it leads to the above combos. You can still get shine trashkills about as easily as you could in SSBM. If you want to play defensive you can still laser camp. This time I may just sell out right away and play Fox too!



Test I added you to my Friends', get chesterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr cheetah to post his FC somewhere so I can add him too.

You can pshield the downair and/or uptilt. You can grab the fox if he attempts ANYTHING (including the upsmash) after his drill. that's about all what he got to combo/do I guess you can predict what he's gonna try to do no?

 

[Suo]

ANd I agree with Suo, poke trainer will be high/upper tier. Each pokemon has potential and since it's really 3 chars mixed into one, it'll take a while before each of the chars get developed, but once they do, they will be quite good. And Suo, we must discuss poke trainer strats because ivysaur happens to be my favourite (and best) out of the three pokemon I don't think I have you on msn but I do have your brawl code, so hit me up on msn and we'll have to play online at some point.

Heey Dice, I added you on MSN. I'd be glad to talk Pokemon Trainer strats with you, and yes we must mos def play online at some point.


Really though, I don't think we'll have anything beyond a very basic paint by numbers tier list for a while. The game is too early, there's still too many nuances to be found.

one discovered technique can shift the tier list for a char. Ex. Squirtle and his Shell-Shifting 'Wavedash' instantly bumps him up, simply because of his ground and air control.

 

[Deleted member]

lol @ lurking.

brian, you said that ICs for worst in the game?! you crazy! dude, they have many many chain grabs this time around.

If they do it to you on a flat area, they can pretty much 0-death you if they know what they're doing.

i dont know how to do it, all i know is it's been done to me many times, one grabs, the other f-airs, repeat.. but the thing is, the grab takes you across the stage and the f-air spikes you down

I was gonna say they're high if not top.. those cg's are insane

 

[Damax]

lol @ lurking.

brian, you said that ICs for worst in the game?! you crazy! dude, they have many many chain grabs this time around.

If they do it to you on a flat area, they can pretty much 0-death you if they know what they're doing.

i dont know how to do it, all i know is it's been done to me many times, one grabs, the other f-airs, repeat.. but the thing is, the grab takes you across the stage and the f-air spikes you down

I was gonna say they're high if not top.. those cg's are insane

del del del.... the fair chaingrab is HIGHLY di able. only the throw to throw aren't di able.

 

[Deleted member]

teach me

how do you?

 

[KirbyKaze]

or or or

you could not get grabbed

they can't wd into grab or jab --> grab

and their grab range seems nerfed slightly

grabbing with ic is still absurdly difficult hahaha

edit: does powershield to grab work? i hear powershielding to move is the vogue atm.

 

[Damax]

teach me

how do you?

hum I had sonic which means medium weight at 60 it was SURE he couldn't do it anymore. at lower percentage I could still easily tap DI out I dunno about heavier chars though.

 

[Jazriel]

I agree with Locke) mostly. And Dice, what I meant by "watch the computers" is watch what they can do. I can beat comps easily, but they pull off particular combos that no one knows about. They play Jiggz properly, whereas everyone here tries to play her like it's Melee. Hell, I pulled off a sing -> rest combo on R.O.B. at 130% and it was instant death, no matter which way he di'd it. ****'s different, I would agree with the premature decision that Jiggz sucks, but general experience in life has told me that premature decisions fail.

And Damax is right, you can pshield anything after Fox's dair. It's also extremely easy, just hold L while you're being hit by his dair. It's not nearly as unstoppable a combo as people think it is.


I wasn't saying DK now owns Marth, I meant that there are more tricks to deal with ranged attackers. SAF, easier pshielding, and Marth's drastically reduced range mean I don't think he's as blatantly top tier as he was in melee.

 

[Dice]

lmao if you shouldn't get hit by puff's sing in the first place. And if you are getting your playing tips from comps then I have no clue what to say...

 

[Jazriel]

lmao if you shouldn't get hit by puff's sing in the first place. And if you are getting your playing tips from comps then I have no clue what to say...

If I shouldn't? Great way to prove your intelligence there. Right on ya. If you have no clue what to say then why are you saying it? Since you can read what I wrote so well, you shouldn't care about responding. But you can't stick with your own sentiments, so I can see why you would respond.

 

[RaIph]

I'm from the Mtltd http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=35671
add me 2878-9333-2277.

 

[arsenic41]

At this point in time, since we don't know anything techniques or stuff with the new characters, I think Marth is going to be top tier, his tipper IS that good, his fairs come out fast, his range is still really ghey. I also nominate Fox for not top, but a possible high tier for his cheap down air combos.

Ignore this post, it is 2 pages too late in the thread.

 

[Dice]

If I shouldn't? Great way to prove your intelligence there. Right on ya. If you have no clue what to say then why are you saying it? Since you can read what I wrote so well, you shouldn't care about responding. But you can't stick with your own sentiments, so I can see why you would respond.

EDIT - I had something nice to say, but I figure it's better off for me to not say it. And if you want to prove your point, I'll play your puff with marth, and I'll show you whats up

 

[sh0ck]

lol @ dice. Are you reading his posts? I like how you try to prove who's the bigger man by saying that your Marth ("Marth's drastically reduced range mean I don't think he's as blatantly top tier as he was in melee." doesn't say that Marth sucks by any means) can beat his JigglyPuff ("would agree with the premature decision that Jiggz sucks").

I really have to agree with Jazriel here and say that there isn't that much to learn from computers, but every now and then, I'll play against them and be surprised. I don't think "Wow, i just got owned", but I do think "Wait, what did he just do there? I wanna try that". And that _can_ improve your game.

(edited to remove **** language)

 

[Dice]

I don't even know you who are and you are coming here and talking ****? Go learn to play the game instead of worrying about me and Jazriel's little convo

 

[Suo]

I really don't see the point behind this argument guys.

I can guarantee that their are still things left to be learned from computers, however minute and small they are.

Just because you learn 'something' from a computer, doesn't make you any less of a smasher than someone who endlessly toils testing things. Especially so early in brawl's metagame development, heck half of Sonics tricks thus far discovered have been taken from computers.

 

[WarranThad]

internet
serious business

 

[Damax]

I really don't see the point behind this argument guys.

I can guarantee that their are still things left to be learned from computers, however minute and small they are.

Just because you learn 'something' from a computer, doesn't make you any less of a smasher than someone who endlessly toils testing things. Especially so early in brawl's metagame development, heck half of Sonics tricks thus far discovered have been taken from computers.

LOL your sonic must be quite good! -_- WRONG

 

[Suo]

LOL your sonic must be quite good! -_- WRONG

Perhaps 'Half' of Sonics techniques was an overstatement, however using the homing-spin as an edgeguard, and the spring to alleviate D-air lag, were both originally found from computers.

Also, I don't play Sonic Damax.

P.S. What's with the demeaning and condescending tone?

 

[Damax]

Perhaps 'Half' of Sonics techniques was an overstatement, however using the homing-spin as an edgeguard, and the spring to alleviate D-air lag, were both originally found from computers.

Also, I don't play Sonic Damax.

P.S. What's with the demeaning and condescending tone?

the homing spin SUCK against a player with half of a monkey's brain. Seriously, worst edgeguard ever, never hit.

I'm mean and I throll were needed. also mitch got sucha big head.