Ottawa Bi-weeklies, because illegal gambling is perfectly legal

[PND]

Playing by Toronto rules means we're wrecked if we go elsewhere, because Toronto's overly strict.

Stricter level rosters focus more on beating the player, not the character. I would argue that learning to fight the player is a far more important skill to learn, and the benefit from a stricter ruleset would be more beneficial currently for an underdeveloped region like Ottawa.

Once the basics, like pattern recognition and proper spacing, are adopted, then level selection can open up, or at least that's what I believe is the best course of action.

 

[LivewiresXe]

That may be so, but doesn't a stricter rule set make it that much harder to adapt if you're going somewhere else?

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

lol my 2 centsi support the banning of [pictochat, luigis mansion, ps2, whorefair]
I also support neutrals being [ps1, bf, fd, sv, yi, lylat, halberd]

Luigi's Pimphouse- Other than MK shenanigans, there isn't anything too terrible(that I know of) on this stage. Using the pillars as a hitbox delay does add an interesting aspect that also appears on brinstar. The matches last forever and the lip kinda sucks. I am indifferent to this stage.

Pokemon Gaydium 2- Ice/Wind/Conveyor belt is pretty gay. They do change gameplay significantly with intense sliding and tripping, earlier star KOs/easier juggling, but the conveyor belts don't muck things up too much; it's more the placement of the platforms. I haven't been owned by this stage often enough to develop bitterness towards it. I'd prefer if this stage stayed CP.

Whorefair- Metaplanking shenanigans(though that can be done on most stages). Early star KOs on the top platforms. Pizza pocket cancelling/comboing because there's too much stuff can be kind of =S sometimes. No CGs make me sad, personally. The random elements are usually telegraphed very noticeably, but they are very frequent. I'm indifferent to this stage.

Pictochat- I'm biased because I enjoy this stage a lot as a CP. The random elements are not that dangerous except the side spikes and the fence spikes. The missles *cannot* kill you because they have set knockback. Like you mentioned in your other post Ben, you have to be aware of the safe spot almost all the time. You have to take the time to learn the stage... which I have done... so if this stage goes, I will be disappointed. The music is mostly garbage. I like this stage and want it to stay, but I do understand the arguments against it.

I don't care about replacing Delfino with PS1. I like Delfino more because it has more colour, but as a stage, I don't mind either(except that stupid windmill).

Here is the proposed list:

Starters:
-Pokemon Stadium
-Battlefield
-Final Destination
-Halberd
-Smashville
-Yoshi's Island(Brawl)
-Lylat Cruise

Counter Picks:
-Brinstar
-Castle Siege
-Delfino Plaza
-Norfair
-Pictochat
-Delfino Plaza
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Jungle Japes
-Rainbow Cruise

Banned:
-Luigi's Mansion
-Pirate Ship

Yes, Pirate Ship. I do like the stage, but I don't think it will help out our still developing skill in the community. At a higher level of the game, Pirate Ship should come back, but for now, I think it should be off.

 

[buenob]

this can kind of be likened to watching only pro vids. vs. watching scrub vids (in a very loose sense, but I think the comparison is strong enough I don't have to elaborate)

new thought -- is it possible for sonic to circle camp on mansion?

 

[Remilia Scarlet]

You can just break the house.

PS, perhaps we should seriously try japanese rules? I am agreeing with Mike.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I don't know about a ruleset as strict as the japanese set, guys... That would mean only flat stages, and that screws over a lot of characters and is too good for others. Imagine how well Snake would do in a match where every stage was neutral. Or falco, for that matter.

However, it may be the best step to advance our community. I say we should at least adopt the "standard" rules for now. On top of that, however, it could be best to take some of toronto or montreal's rules if they are stricter.

I do NOT think that we should adopt the Japanese rules, because I would get tired with brawl very quickly. It just wouldn't be fun anymore. I know at least Harold will agree with me here.

 

[PND]

For the Falco example: Yes, you can pick a level where it's easier to avoid the lasers, but in picking FD, you'll learn how to read the lasers and get past them, a skill that will benefit you on any level you take him to. Then, as I mentioned before, you're fighting the player, not the character. You're actively adapting to his patterns and mannerisms, and this will force the Falco player to do the same if he wants to hit you with his lasers. Now you're both actively thinking, which is a far better scenario then just picking a level where you're pretty much guaranteed a "free win."

Considering the general low stakes of the biweeklies, I propose a week or two to test this out, and see if there's any notable difference in skill. My theory is the players who currently get top, will remain top. Not necessarily because of stage choice, but because they already know how to "fight the player." I suggest trying it our for a week, and focus on "playing to learn", not "playing to win."

And here's a hard hitting example: At AaCaG, Norfair was banned. Norfair is my go-to, anti-DeDeDe level for Snake AND Jigglypuff. I got wrecked by every DeDeDe I faced. Is it because the smaller level selection limits my characters? No. It's because I didn't learn how to fight DeDeDe properly, with a player using everything he can to win against me. I had no idea how to deal with it. I had no idea how to effectively deal with my own character's disadvantages in this matchup.

Ally did. Ally had no problem beating the same DeDeDes on the same levels that I would get ***** on. If our "expansive level roster" was working, wouldn't I have had the experience on how to deal with a DeDeDe on those levels? I was using the level as a crutch, not as a tool to help me succeed. I was approaching the matchup all wrong beforehand, and now I know the areas in my playstyle where I need to improve. Once I learn that, then I can start taking a DeDeDe to Norfair, confident that I could win it anywhere else and deserve the win.

 

[buenob]

lol, i realize this may be weird to a lot of the scene, us acting this way... but really, we got *****... harder (better faster and stronger) than any of us came close to anticipating... it was, extremely educational, not only in play, but in mindset... honestly, keep playing the game you want to, and I do support the 7 starters and slightly me lenient stage list overall, but I hope you understand that the game I'm going to be playing now is going to be a bit more "traditionally competitive" because that's what I want to do

 

[Fogel]

I'm ok with changing the stage list.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

For the Falco example: Yes, you can pick a level where it's easier to avoid the lasers, but in picking FD, you'll learn how to read the lasers and get past them, a skill that will benefit you on any level you take him to. Then, as I mentioned before, you're fighting the player, not the character. You're actively adapting to his patterns and mannerisms, and this will force the Falco player to do the same if he wants to hit you with his lasers. Now you're both actively thinking, which is a far better scenario then just picking a level where you're pretty much guaranteed a "free win."

Considering the general low stakes of the biweeklies, I propose a week or two to test this out, and see if there's any notable difference in skill. My theory is the players who currently get top, will remain top. Not necessarily because of stage choice, but because they already know how to "fight the player." I suggest trying it our for a week, and focus on "playing to learn", not "playing to win."

And here's a hard hitting example: At AaCaG, Norfair was banned. Norfair is my go-to, anti-DeDeDe level for Snake AND Jigglypuff. I got wrecked by every DeDeDe I faced. Is it because the smaller level selection limits my characters? No. It's because I didn't learn how to fight DeDeDe properly, with a player using everything he can to win against me. I had no idea how to deal with it. I had no idea how to effectively deal with my own character's disadvantages in this matchup.

Ally did. Ally had no problem beating the same DeDeDes on the same levels that I would get ***** on. If our "expansive level roster" was working, wouldn't I have had the experience on how to deal with a DeDeDe on those levels? I was using the level as a crutch, not as a tool to help me succeed. I was approaching the matchup all wrong beforehand, and now I know the areas in my playstyle where I need to improve. Once I learn that, then I can start taking a DeDeDe to Norfair, confident that I could win it anywhere else and deserve the win.

Wow. I see exactly what you're saying. All this time I've been using those stages as a crutch. I've not been putting myself at an advantage, but my opponents at a disadvantage (not the same thing). I have been avoiding the matchup rather than learning it. I first need to learn how to deal with the matchup, and then I can properly use stages to sweeten the deal.

I am actually in agreement to try the Japanese rules for a little while. It will be a swiss tourney, so let's play to learn, not to win this week. Anyone else with me?

 

[LivewiresXe]

I think that yeah, it may be worth a shot, but I've always felt that using more than just "the basic neutral stages" is part of the whole Smash thing and I agree that if all matches were fought on just Battlefield and Final Destination then it wouldn't be nearly as much fun anymore. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I'd rather be near the lower rung of players in a game I enjoy, than top rung of players in a game that's not fun at all because ultimately these are games, and games designed to be fun. Though, I apologize if that comes across as being preachy or anything like that, since I'm not trying to convey that.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I think that yeah, it may be worth a shot, but I've always felt that using more than just "the basic neutral stages" is part of the whole Smash thing and I agree that if all matches were fought on just Battlefield and Final Destination then it wouldn't be nearly as much fun anymore. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, I'd rather be near the lower rung of players in a game I enjoy, than top rung of players in a game that's not fun at all because ultimately these are games, and games designed to be fun. Though, I apologize if that comes across as being preachy or anything like that, since I'm not trying to convey that.

Oh, I wholly agree with you here. I wouldn't want to play smash if we always had such a limited stage choice. However, limiting the stages for one or two weeks will serve as an exercise to get better as players; as a community. It's better for you as a player to learn to deal with characters on neutral stages rather than using crazy stages to avoid dealing with the characters. Also, if you learn to deal with them on neutral stages very well, you will do well during the first match and possibly on their CP as well, not just on your own CP.

I've actually done a few matches on AiB using only neutral stages, and I have been surprised with the results. Of the 3 matches I played, I won all of them. My opponents played Ike, Marth, and ZSS. This is not what really surprised me though. It was the comments following. Every one of those opponents gave me at least a GGs, all the way to 'best jiggly evur!' I used to not always get feedback and if I did, they were sometimes wishy-washy comments. If you can beat an opponent without having to throw a stage at them, they not only respect you more, but you also feel a little stronger about your own abilities.

Therefore, as Mike said, you should learn the matchup on neutral stages first, then you can throw in something like Norfair to throw them off, confident you could have won anywhere else.

[/rant]

So does anyone want to actually do this or what? If so, then we have to find out what the exact rules are. I mean if you can ban stages or is Dave's stupid rule is on. If neither is on, I propose we add one ban.

Also, I don't think we should decide the first stage randomly (FD, BF, SV), because it isn't actually random. The game only randomly picks from stages that it hasn't picked yet, and when none are left, it restarts. This means someone can easily watch the matches on a setup and know what stage will come up at times, and that's no good. Should we stage strike the three? Or stage strike all the legal stages (all 5 of them)? I'm good with either.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

Really? The japanese set? I am not sure following their example would be best. Look at it this way: Are the japanese good at Brawl? Maybe. Are they as good as Ally? No. if we're going to adopt a foreign stage list, I vote for the montreal stage list.

What is the japanese stage list anyways? I remember it being 6 stages... Smashville, Final, Battle... and I don't quite recall the CP's. I think it was Yoshi's Brawl, Halberd and Lylat, but I am not sure at all.

we got *****... harder (better faster and stronger)

I've been listening to them a lot recently. Interstella was probably the best anime I've seen in a while. Best soundtrack for sure =P

 

[KnucklesTheEchidna]

So the last game of the stanley cup finals is tomorrow... As much as I really want to go to the biweekly, i am very torn. Would it be at all possible to have one tv tuned to the hockey game (upstairs maybe as to not be distracting to those not interested)? I can maybe bring a tv/setup... I would hate to miss my favourite player lifting the cup for the first time

Edit: Oh yeah and I am in favour of changing to a smaller stage list

 

[LivewiresXe]

Well, you could always like...tape the hockey or I don't know...I'd say bring a mini radio to listen to it on, but, not sure.

 

[Divine_Haze]

Un-sign me up for the bi-weekly. My dad is coming into town tomorrow, and I haven't seen him in 6 months, so that takes precedent over brawl, I'm afraid. Also, I too would be in favor of going to a smaller stage list.

 

[PND]

if we're going to adopt a foreign stage list, I vote for the montreal stage list.

I agree with this overall, but I've already listed my thoughts on adopting the Japanese set for a week or two, and my perceived benefits of doing so. Wait, why am I still here debating this? Lol, I won't be back until Ottawa until winter

Anyway, I'm *really* curious to see Alan's thoughts on all of this.

 

[Fogel]

So the last game of the stanley cup finals is tomorrow... As much as I really want to go to the biweekly, i am very torn. Would it be at all possible to have one tv tuned to the hockey game (upstairs maybe as to not be distracting to those not interested)? I can maybe bring a tv/setup... I would hate to miss my favourite player lifting the cup for the first time

Edit: Oh yeah and I am in favour of changing to a smaller stage list

Sorry, but I don't have cable. If you're going to come, you'll need to tape it or watch online or something.

 

[Linkshot]

My thoughts on this? Stages are just as much of a hurdle as a bad matchup. When you add them to a bad matchup, you're raising the bar. Going conservative for a few tournaments will definitely help us focus on overcoming the base hurdle.

I propose we select 9 or 11 stages to be legal and then stage strike from those 11 for the first match.

No Starter. No Counterpick. Just one big category labelled Legal.

After we feel comfortable with that, we move on to the remaining stages currently categorised as "Counterpick" and have a tourney specifically on those. However, our goal here is not to take the character that best abuses the stage, but to figure out how to overcome this hurdle with our mains.
The way this should be carried out is that each week, we decide on 2 of the counterpicks to play on, and the next week we change them until every counterpick has been played. This way, we work around people specifically avoiding stages they "dislike", because avoiding a stage means you gain no experience on it.

In the end, we'll have an overall greater understanding of both character and stage matchups. Characters being of utmost importance due to having the greatest effect.

In addition, perhaps somebody not in a match can count, to their best judgment, how many times an improper DI was made by each player, then tally them up at the end. Same for missed punishes and/or trends/mistakes that can/did get punished. (This last part is optional as it requires far more extra work than required; most of us should know by now when we make a mistake)

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Really? The japanese set? I am not sure following their example would be best. Look at it this way: Are the japanese good at Brawl? Maybe. Are they as good as Ally? No. if we're going to adopt a foreign stage list, I vote for the montreal stage list.


What is the Japanese stage list anyways? I remember it being 6 stages... Smashville, Final, Battle... and I don't quite recall the CP's. I think it was Yoshi's Brawl, Halberd and Lylat, but I am not sure at all.

I've been listening to them a lot recently. Interstella was probably the best anime I've seen in a while. Best soundtrack for sure =P

*looks back towards you after looking in a cave, with a cluess look on face*
...No....

It's not that I actually want to follow their example. Their meta-game is garbage. I think that they use time, I'm not sure if they have best 2/3, and it looks like the results of sudden death are considered ligit...

Really, I just wanted to try out Mike's suggestion for a bit. Then again, I suppose it should be more of a personal decision to limit the stage choice that drastically or not, so I'll just do that in singles.

I do think we should limit the stage choice to match either Toronto or Montreal. What are the differences between them? I vote Montreal, since Toronto rules seem too strict from what I've heard. No japes? Seriously? That's what bans are for. It would be different if the klaptrap was random, but he comes like clockwork. Every 10 seconds, on the '7' on the right side and '5' on the left side, while the system becomes one full second slow every 3 minutes and 15 seconds. Clockwork.

So what’s interstella about? Is it a series or a movie, first of all?

On another note my girlfriend, Melanie, will be attending on Friday if there is still room. So could you please,

Sign her up.

She will also be partnering with me for doubles, so sorry Alan, we can't team this week. I know that the policy is that she should create an account and sign up herself, but she is away from comp at this time, and it is just easier for me to sign her up. In the future (if she decides to come back, lol) she will sign up herself.

On that note guys, I trust you all, but please don't do anything to chase her off. Like remember those two players that came one time when Niko was over? The guy who played MK and the girl that played pikachu? Was there a reason we never saw them again?

Spoiler

Niko: I can't believe she got that much money because she was a virgin! I mean, how could he even tell? All she had to do was like put a ketchup packet in there and...

Hmm, don't think there really was a reason. Well anyways, I really think she'll get along with you guys, so I'm not worried.

 

[Linkshot]

Your what?!

I feel betrayed and untrustworthy! All this time..your Jiggs, my Pit...it felt so right...I can't believe you're doing this to me! Fine! No "let's stay friends", that's for losers and sissies, it's over.

[/drama]

In all seriousness, it's totally okay XD If I can't find a replacement temp, I'll just team with a Level 9 Luigi/Ganondorf/Yoshi and split the money with whoever owns the Wii that was used most. XDD

Good luck everybody! (Also read my roll of pennies on the current metagame situation)

 

[LivewiresXe]

Hm...creepiest thing about those spoiler tags? That I wouldn't be surprised if it was bull, or legit true that it got said.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Your what?!

I feel betrayed and untrustworthy! All this time..your Jiggs, my Pit...it felt so right...I can't believe you're doing this to me! Fine! No "let's stay friends", that's for losers and sissies, it's over.

[/drama]

In all seriousness, it's totally okay XD If I can't find a replacement temp, I'll just team with a Level 9 Luigi/Ganondorf/Yoshi and split the money with whoever owns the Wii that was used most. XDD

Good luck everybody! (Also read my roll of pennies on the current metagame situation)

Aww, sorry Alan... Now I feel bad I liked teaming with your pit, though. Jiggs/Pit made a good team. Again, I'm sorry. Wouldn't it be worse if I didn't tell you until tomorrow? Isn't moses coming back, anyways?

Hm...creepiest thing about those spoiler tags? That I wouldn't be surprised if it was bull, or legit true that it got said.

No, no. It was said. Ask Mike, actually. I'm sure he remembers it, too...

 

[Linkshot]

It did. I carried that joke on and beat it into the ground where it rotted.

EDIT: I was completely joking, 'naut. You should definitely be teaming with your girlfriend. Don't feel bad at all; twas all in good fun.

 

[SoLn]

So the last game of the stanley cup finals is tomorrow... As much as I really want to go to the biweekly, i am very torn. Would it be at all possible to have one tv tuned to the hockey game (upstairs maybe as to not be distracting to those not interested)? I can maybe bring a tv/setup... I would hate to miss my favourite player lifting the cup for the first time

Edit: Oh yeah and I am in favour of changing to a smaller stage list

You can watch it online at cbc.ca. Youll just have to get Cams ok to use the computer. Although it could be a pain since youll have to keep switching between the game and tio.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

It did. I carried that joke on and beat it into the ground where it rotted.

EDIT: I was completely joking, 'naut. You should definitely be teaming with your girlfriend. Don't feel bad at all; twas all in good fun.

I know, lol. I was just going along with the joke. I decided against carrying it much farther, however.

Also, Pikachu's standing Chaingrab. It's dthrow>dthrow, and it isn't infinite. Is it banned?

 

[Linkshot]

I could bring my laptop for streaming tomorrow so there's no crashing of TIO (will we be using that? We are doing Swiss), but this guarantees that either I don't bring my extra controller or I don't bring my violin (Harold requested the latter).

On second thought, my controllers should fit nicely in the laptop bag. My Wii is obsolete right now (unless somebody can supply extra power cables). Yeah, that's what I'll do. I'm interested in watching Game 7, too.

 

[Fogel]

Don't forget to bring Wiis this time. Remember at the PND off-weekly, where the only Wii there was mine for the first while? I'd prefer if that didn't happen this week :/

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

Of course the Japanese have a garbage meta-game. Legit sudden death is kinda lame, but it DOES counter planking to an extent. No I do not support planking.

Someone, please post a stage list right now so we all know what to expect for tomorrow. Whether it be Modded OBscene, Montreal, Japanese, Toronto or w/e.

@Andrew-Interstella 5555 is the daft punk album 'Discovery' but as an anime. There's no talking and almost no sound effects. It's on youtube anyways. It's pretty random and most of the songs are very repetitive, but I liked it. Also, you have a gf that's into brawl? Who does she main?

Looks like Harold won't be posting to complain against the proposed stage restrictions. Oh well. Again, I propose a stage list. Please comment on it.

Starters:
-Battlefield
-Final Destination
-Smashville
-Yoshi's Island(Brawl)
-Lylat Cruise

Counter Picks:
-Pokemon Stadium
-Halberd
-Brinstar
-Frigate Orpheon
-Castle Siege
-Delfino Plaza
-Pictochat
-Jungle Japes
-Rainbow Cruise

Banned:
-Luigi's Mansion
-Pokemon Stadium 2
-Norfair
-Pirate Ship

EDIT: I will be bringing my wii. I finally got my homebrew working again. Please save all biweekly replays on it.

 

[Fogel]

I vote we go with Ariel's list; I think it's the same as what was used at Not Genesis.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Don't forget to bring Wiis this time. Remember at the PND off-weekly, where the only Wii there was mine for the first while? I'd prefer if that didn't happen this week :/

Sure, I'll bring mine this time, again.

Of course the Japanese have a garbage meta-game. Legit sudden death is kinda lame, but it DOES counter planking to an extent. No I do not support planking.

Someone, please post a stage list right now so we all know what to expect for tomorrow. Whether it be Modded OBscene, Montreal, Japanese, Toronto or w/e.

@Andrew-Interstella 5555 is the daft punk album 'Discovery' but as an anime. There's no talking and almost no sound effects. It's on youtube anyways. It's pretty random and most of the songs are very repetitive, but I liked it. Also, you have a gf that's into brawl? Who does she main?

Looks like Harold won't be posting to complain against the proposed stage restrictions. Oh well. Again, I propose a stage list. Please comment on it.


EDIT: I will be bringing my wii. I finally got my homebrew working again. Please save all biweekly replays on it.

LOL it does counter planking.

Sounds like a cool idea for an anime, actually. Sounds pretty out there, too. I'll try and check it out.

Ya, I know, isn't it awesome? She played Smash 64 and Melee when they were new, and she enjoyed playing them. She's played brawl with me a bit, and she's interested in checking out the competitive scene. She mains Pikachu, actually, which is why I asked about Pikachu's standing ChainGrab. Btw, know if it's legal? I don't want to teach it to her if it's not.

There is a spot for her, right?

Edit: Oh, ya and I agree with that stage list.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

I was under the impression that infinites are banned here except for ICs shenanigans. But, teach her everything anyways. The Chainthrow could be pretty useful later on. If it is, I will be upset though, as my 3D dislikes ironic punishment from mice.

EDIT: Oh yes, Patrick hasn't already, but he signs up. And Harold too.

EDIT2: So the current sign up list is:

-Zylem
-Buenob
-Fogel
-Remilia
-Jiggernaut
-Jiggernautette
-Linkshot
-rc-80
-Ivaneva
-Nuckls(I hope you can make it)
-Arsenic(I assume)
-SoLn(I assume)
-NO ENTRY
-NO ENTRY
-NO ENTRY
-NO ENTRY

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I was under the impression that infinites are banned here except for ICs shenanigans. But, teach her everything anyways. The Chainthrow could be pretty useful later on. If it is, I will be upset though, as my 3D dislikes ironic punishment from mice.

EDIT: Oh yes, Patrick hasn't already, but he signs up. And Harold too.

EDIT2: So the current sign up list is:

Lol at Jiggernautette.

I didn't think it was an infinite. It only goes until 60 or so on most characters. Is it infinite on heaver characters? Would it then be legal only for characters that it isn't an infinite for (they can escape before 300%)? And if it is illegal, how many times could you dThrow in a row before it is counted as a chainthrow?

Also, why would it be good to teach her if it is illegal in most places? Is it illegal in teams?

(I'm so waiting for someone to respond here with a meme from Link/Zelda Cd:i)

I know I ask a lot of questions, sorry, lol. I just don't want to teach my GF to do things that will get her DQed.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

If it's not a true infinite, then w/e teach her. I don't see a significatn difference between 0-60% and Falco's 0-60something%(comboing after the last chainable throw)

 

[arsenic41]

pikachu's chaingrab is Fthrow a couple of times into down throws, it isn't an infinite but it racks alot of damage really fast. I wouldn't ban it.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

If it's not a true infinite, then w/e teach her. I don't see a significatn difference between 0-60% and Falco's 0-60something%(comboing after the last chainable throw)

pikachu's chaingrab is Fthrow a couple of times into down throws, it isn't an infinite but it racks alot of damage really fast. I wouldn't ban it.

Alright, thanks guys. It's Fthrow too? Guess I have to look it up then. Are there places that would ban things like that? Are there places that ban infinites for that matter?

 

[infomon]

iirc pika's unstale dthrow will chain falco from 21% (must start between like 21 and 23? I forget the details, but it's a small window), up until a guaranteed KO (<--- maybe not with proper DI).

But pika can perfectly chain falco to 21% by two fthrows followed by a single grab-jab. Then dthrow like crazy.

definitely not ban-worthy, and not an infinite either; just an inescapable chainthrow between some %s. *shrug*

 

[Linkshot]

I guess nobody bothered to look at my suggestions.

I'll just go with whatever, then.

 

[IvanEva]

1. Randy, clean up the first post and please maintain it regularly. If not, please have other people do it for you. As the main post for our bi-weeklies it's about as useful as other brand's versions of Slap Chop. You can't clean it - it's WORTHLESS! Part of cleaning up that first post should also include a FULL set of Ottawa rules. Saying that we're using Only in Niagara rules is, again, like a fake Slap Chop.

2. Related to the above point is an addition that players found to be under the influence of non-prescription drugs, except weed, are banned. I mean, I doubt that it's a problem here or ever will be but having that clause in could be an incentive for others to adopt the same.

3. Also part of our clean, updated ruleset should be a specific list of what is and is not banned. Off the top of my head I can name:
- Meta Knight's infinite cape (I doubt anybody could do it long enough to stall a match to any real degree but since it changes the dynamic of the game so much - and it's boring - it's ban worthy)
- Standing infinites. Specifically, Marth's Ness infinite grab and Dedede's infinite grab on Samus, DK, etc. If you don't move at least ever so slightly forward, it's banned. HOWEVER, this brings into question the Ice Climbers and Pikachu's chain throws. If they can have 0% - death combos why can't Marth and Dedede?

4. Stages: Johning that our stages are what's holding us back is laughable. Take a look at the Genesis results thread. With the exception of Joel (who never, as far as I know, comes top five) the players that succeeded used good characters. Some of us are really starting to finally upgrade and, while there is still an annoyingly long adjustment/learning period, will no doubt do much better with them. Mike's example of not knowing how to beat a Dedede outside of Norfair can be reversed into saying that the Dedede player did not know how to beat a Snake/Jiggly outside of the very Dedede-friendly flat levels.

5. Changes to stage selection: Have any of you guys felt that Ben's (very admirable) decision to add Halberd, Castle Siege, and Delphino to the starters list had any large impact on the game? I haven't. The only change was that there was now more choice and variety to choose from. Stage striking works very well in making sure that you're never starting against Ariel's Dedede on Delphino or Siege but that other match-ups can. It was a good decision that had no drawbacks (except for one which I will mention below). Taking stages away from the starter list, especially those stages that really aren't as radical as Rainbow Cruise or Jungle Japes, is a step back. Add more (I'm still going for putting them ALL) as starters and give more stage bans.

6. Stage striking takes too long. This is the only potential downside to having everything as a starter. However, it's offset by striking two at a time.

7. Going with what some people have suggested, I'd recommend that this bi-weekly be only on the "starters" but that the next one be only on the "counterpicks". Only. It will hopefully go to show that the levels we go on aren't what's 'holding us back'.

 

[CHAOSvsORDER]

Maybe the stages are holding us back, maybe not. Either way, I'd rather that we went with a more conservative stage list for the moment. Is everyone cool with the one I posted? Only Cam and Andrew commented.