Orange County Protest Against Muslims

[Kuraudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NutFkykjmbM

So I wanted to move to America to avoid the cold weather of Canada. California, even. Watch that video. I am disgusted to have even HUMORED the thought of moving to that country.

The video and description says it all. I don't have to say anything except,

"Shame on you." to the people that were a part of that heartless atrocity. I will not be so angry as to lump all of America into that cause I know there are many of you guys that are honest to good people. All I can say is that I'm so sorry if you all get lumped up into this because of THOSE idiots that paint a bloody and horrific image of America.

[EDIT]

DISCLAIMER: I'm white. Doesn't stop me from just watching this in shock.

[EDIT #2]

Sorry; I overlooked the Current Events section. If someone could move this there, that'd be great.

 

[El Nino]

Rick Warren also comes from the OC.

I am somewhat familiar with that area. Can't say I like it much. People are entitled to their opinions, but I'm entitled to not like their opinions, right? There is also a strong undercurrent of hatred directed towards Latinos and the LGBT community in that region. Sometimes it gets to the point where it is less about free expression of opinion and more about personal safety concerns. A lot of racial profiling goes on by the police over there.

That said, I don't think this represents America. They wave the flag around, but I wouldn't say that they respect the values that a lot of people in the U.S. have.

 

[Kuraudo]

Yeah I agree that this doesn't represent America, which is why I apologize for anyone who gets lumped into this whole mess by people who WILL point the "BOO ALL OF AMERICA" finger.

That being said, I still wouldn't want to move there. Not saying that this stuff wouldn't happen in Canada, but the hate's definitely not as strong. lol

 

[Lore]

Gah, I hate people who do crap like this. It gives everyone else a terrible reputation.

But of course, I live in the southeastern part of the US, so a lot of people here would probably agree with what the OC folks did. >_>

 

[-Ran]

The glorious thing of America is that we fight for our idiots to have their rights that they frequently abuse, so that the real issues can be voiced without fear of reprisal.

 

[Pluvia]

You can't hate speech in Britain yet we get along just fine and without fear of reprisal if we say something against the government.

 

[Xianglian]

There is hate like this everywhere. You can't escape it. Just because it's in America doesn't mean that Americans feel this way. These are radical views that are a vast minority of the people of America. Don't let outside opinions influence your opinions.

 

[Nicknyte]

Our constitution gives us the right to protest against what we think is wrong. I'm not saying muslims are, since I am engaged to one, but your family and friends may feel the same way, but they don't have the same freedoms. That's why America is great, to speak your mind.

Those protesters need to fall off a large cliff....With minimal injuries to keep them alive at least....I can't hate people really. :-:

P.S.

America likes to consider itself as 50 countries under 1 central government. So, don't try to lump the entire country together for one county's community worth of bigotry, that's foolish. I suggest moving to San Francisco. They love everyone there.

Don't go to the South, Midwest, or Arizona. I live here. It's mad racist. You hispanic, you get teh hate.

 

[CAOTIC]

this video is not representative of the OC either. i'm an OC native and these conservative extremists constitute a minority group. about half of OC of the 3 million residents are hispanic or asian.

whilst i admit the OC is conservative, you don't solve the world's problems by avoiding them -- you only contribute to that problem by segregation processes. that in itself just repats the cycle when there are multiple deviations in moral diversity. racism decreases over time as people become more accustomed to things they initially fear (and yes, fear is a natural instinctive reaction).

kuraudo sounds naive, and suggests a notion that is contrary to the construction of a peaceful society.

 

[El Nino]

this video is not representative of the OC either. i'm an OC native and these conservative extremists constitute a minority group. about half of OC of the 3 million residents are hispanic or asian.

Unfortunately, I think the conservative extremists in the OC also have more money, and that gives them more sway in politics.

kuraudo sounds naive, and suggests a notion that is contrary to the construction of a peaceful society.

Well, imo, idealism comes second to personal safety. Granted, he's white, but if he were Middle Eastern and/or Muslim and wouldn't feel safe in the OC, I wouldn't blame him.

 

[Mota]

Pretty disgusting.
Sadly a lot of people in many countries hold those views, just not as outspoken and extreme as those in the video. All that 9/11 fear mongering propaganda got way out of hand.
A student at a nearby school of mine got called a 'terrorist' by the teacher and to leave..

 

[CAOTIC]

Unfortunately, I think the conservative extremists in the OC also have more money, and that gives them more sway in politics.



Well, imo, idealism comes second to personal safety. Granted, he's white, but if he were Middle Eastern and/or Muslim and wouldn't feel safe in the OC, I wouldn't blame him.

1: yes, but i'm referring to the perception of outsider opinions of OC society -- not politics. OC is highly multicultural. it's not all rich white folk

2: i know a good number of folks of middle eastern origin and muslim that have no problem living there and being accepted. the video is pretty extreme on the whole scale of things, but nonetheless one not to ignore

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

A student at a nearby school of mine got called a 'terrorist' by the teacher and to leave..

Really? That's horrible, I think they should pursue that in court.

 

[El Nino]

1: yes, but i'm referring to the perception of outsider opinions of OC society -- not politics. OC is highly multicultural. it's not all rich white folk

I don't mean this like I'm dissing on your hometown or anything. But my friends and I called it "the Orange Curtain."

2: i know a good number of folks of middle eastern origin and muslim that have no problem living there and being accepted. the video is pretty extreme on the whole scale of things, but nonetheless one not to ignore

I do too, but I guess I still can't blame someone for not wanting to travel there if all they have to go on is stuff like this and what they see on the news. The non-white, multi-ethnic parts of the area seem to be under-represented in national or international media. If you're from out of the country, you wouldn't know what to expect.

Also, though it is multicultural, it is also segregated to a degree. I know it's like that in a lot of places, but it sort of explains how such a diverse place can still have pockets of conservative extremism.

 

[CAOTIC]

well i know i certainly didn't have access to yorba linda. lol. gated. and far from the 'real' oc. so you're spot on there

 

[theeboredone]

So I went to this Deborah lady's FB page, and she has a link posted citing the whole hour speech without any edits, claiming her speech was used wrongfully by the media. I have yet to watch all of it, but here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJyt1gC4bNo

Kind of funny how they cite the leaders of this fundraiser are secretly raising money for Al Qaeda and Hezbollah. You think the FBI would know LOL.

 

[Fuelbi]

Ugh, if I dislike many gringos, it's because of **** like that no lie.

That is just painfully disgusting

 

[Kole]

Orange County has some of the dumbest people in the country IMO...

 

[thesage]

Racism exists in Canada too lol. Sounds like somebody's sheltered.

You should dislike gringos because they are all racist. Does anybody get the hypocrisy in this statement?

 

[finalark]

The video you linked is down, Kuraudo. Regardless, I'm sure I can take a stab at the dark at this crap.

Honestly, it's painful to watch so much intolerance and prejudice. People like that are the reason why decent, tolerant and friendly Americans can't say that they're proud of their country or that they even like living here.

I hate xenophobes.

 

[Dre89]

Racism exists in Canada too lol. Sounds like somebody's sheltered.

You should dislike gringos because they are all racist. Does anybody get the hypocrisy in this statement?

Finally someone with some brains.

Often the people who criticise the intolerant, stereotype everyone who shares the same views as the intolerant, and commit the exact same fallacy as those they're criticising.

Scientology is a good example. The media portrays it badly, and everyone goes off what the media yells them, so they're close minded towards it.

People seem to think they're open minded or enlightened if they share the same views as the media.

Anti homosexuality is a classic. The media portrays all antis as narrow minded biblical fundies who want to burn gays, so everyone is narrow minded towards them.

Sexism is similar. Well maybe it's not sexism, they don't think men are superior, just that there are gender roles.

Or like how now Jews are protected, but it's ok to hate Nazis.

Society will never be open minded, it just changes its mind on things.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

To be fair, the only modern reasons to hate/dislike homosexuals/homosexuality are based in either lousy naturalistic fallacies or the bible.

 

[El Nino]

Often the people who criticise the intolerant, stereotype everyone who shares the same views as the intolerant, and commit the exact same fallacy as those they're criticising.

I see no reason to tolerate people who seek to oppress me. That just runs counter to my sense of self-preservation. They can have their views and express them, but I have no reason to hold those views as "equal" to mine, and I have no reason to respect those views which condemn what I am as a human being. Especially when those views can become written into law and forcibly imposed on my day to day existence.

Anti homosexuality is a classic. The media portrays all antis as narrow minded biblical fundies who want to burn gays, so everyone is narrow minded towards them.

Is the implication here that people who are "narrow minded" towards anti-homosexuals are so for no other reason than because the media tells them to be?

To people who are of LGBT orientation or identity, "media" does not matter because, for them, it is their very lives at stake. Some may have the luxury of arguing these "issues" as abstract theories, completely disconnected from personal realities, but there are others who have to face the reality of prejudice every day.

 

[Teran]

You can't hate speech in Britain yet we get along just fine and without fear of reprisal if we say something against the government.

Lol so true.

Well, you can hate on Christians as hard as you want, nobody cares about that. Anything else you get buried.

 

[Dre89]

El Nino- No one is saying you have to agree with them, just don't actively discriminate against them.

Gays obviously do not discriminate against antis because of the media, but the media is the reason why society in general has come to discriminate against antis.

Financially, it makes perfect sense for the media to liberate sexuality, because by liberating sexuality there's billions of dollars to be made through porn, contraception, clubs etc.

A good example of the discrimination I'm talking about was when a model who won a competition was stripped of her title
because she said she believed marriage should only be between a man and woman. If she said marriage should not be exclusive in that way, she would have kept her title and been hailed as a hero. That's the kind of hypocritical discrimination I'm talking about.

And being gay doesn't give you the right to discriminate against those who disagree with what you practice.

Do I have the right to discriminate against and insult people who have abortions or do hardcore drugs?

People criticise what I practice all the time, yet I don't use that as an excuse to mistreat them. I don't lower myself to their standard.

 

[thesage]

Woah, don't put words into my mouth. I think it's ******** to discriminate against anybody. You can say whatever you want (for the most part) due to free speech though.

I have a problem with people saying things like: "The KKK exists, which means all white people hate black people."

The reason that girl lost the Miss America pageant was because the people who ran that pageant thought that what would be the representative in America should not be a girl that thinks gays shouldn't have equal rights.

 

[El Nino]

El Nino- No one is saying you have to agree with them, just don't actively discriminate against them.

I fail to see how I would be able to actively discriminate against them on a day to day basis seeing as how I wouldn't know a person's opinion on something unless they outright stated that opinion to me. And if I choose not to associate with someone based on their opinion, then that's my business and no one else's. At my job, I don't get to treat people differently based on their opinions. But in my personal life, who I choose to associate with is my business.

Gays obviously do not discriminate against antis because of the media, but the media is the reason why society in general has come to discriminate against antis.

Are you sure it isn't the other way around? Media only has so much power, and much of that power is just feeding society's pre-conceived notions of reality back to the audience.

Financially, it makes perfect sense for the media to liberate sexuality, because by liberating sexuality there's billions of dollars to be made through porn, contraception, clubs etc.

People, not media, were/are at the forefront of sexual liberation. The media just profits off of it.

A good example of the discrimination I'm talking about was when a model who won a competition was stripped of her title
because she said she believed marriage should only be between a man and woman. If she said marriage should not be exclusive in that way, she would have kept her title and been hailed as a hero. That's the kind of hypocritical discrimination I'm talking about.

I see. Maybe Adam Lambert lost American Idol because of discrimination as well?

Yes, he probably did, but that's fine. In fact, that's the point of American Idol. It's a popularity contest. People get to discriminate when they vote because it's their vote, and they're not acting as part of the government.

In my understanding (someone correct me if I am wrong), beauty competitions are run by private organizations. They set their own standards. You could say that they discriminate against people who don't have society's standards of physical attractiveness. They can and do. But they are not the government.

In my state, discrimination laws are in place for hiring practices for businesses, mainly because of the way it would negatively impact the rest of society. You could probably argue that the organizers of the Miss America Pageant ruined their credibility, but as a private competition with minimal impact on society, there may not be legal basis to call it unlawful discrimination.

And being gay doesn't give you the right to discriminate against those who disagree with what you practice.

Like I said, at my job, I don't get to discriminate against anyone. But in my private life, it's my business who I choose to associate with. I could cut ties with a friend over his political views if I so choose. That's my business.

 

[Dre89]

El Nino- I'm not saying you must befriend them, but they should be entitled to the same freedom of speech, be it socially, or with regards to not losing jobs etc.

Another example is an AFL player who said gay players should remain in the closet. He got in big trouble, had he endorsed coming out, he would have been a hero.

Saying that private organizations are entitled to discriminate however they want is setting a double standard, because women and gays have always complained about discrimination from the private sector, yet you feel that complaint should be answered.

It just seems ironic that sex becomes liberated through freedom of expression, yet socially we deny its opposition that same principle.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

When you want to infringe on someone's liberty, or hate them because of what they are, you should have a damn good reason to do so. Here's the thing, though: you don't. It's one thing to discriminate against drug addicts; they are a danger to themselves and potentially to society. It's one thing to discriminate against the criminal; they are a danger to society. It's another thing to discriminate against/hate someone for their sexual preference, something that will never effect you and which they have no control over. And then to do it with no reason beyond biased prejudices, backed up by incredibly flimsy logic that the entire DH basically takes turns gang-******...

 

[El Nino]

El Nino- I'm not saying you must befriend them, but they should be entitled to the same freedom of speech, be it socially, or with regards to not losing jobs etc.

Another example is an AFL player who said gay players should remain in the closet. He got in big trouble, had he endorsed coming out, he would have been a hero.

Saying that private organizations are entitled to discriminate however they want is setting a double standard, because women and gays have always complained about discrimination from the private sector, yet you feel that complaint should be answered.

It just seems ironic that sex becomes liberated through freedom of expression, yet socially we deny its opposition that same principle.

Let's get one thing straight about "freedom of speech." It applies to freedom to speak out without being restricted by the government. And people who don't support homosexuality or sexual liberation do have that right (in the U.S. and many other countries). Private citizens can support or condemn such views as they see fit. But the government cannot stop a person from expressing such views.

The KKK is a private organization. It is legal, and its right to express its views are supported under the U.S. constitution. It also actively discriminates against various racial groups. All of this is legal as long as they don't commit physical harm, which breaks various other laws unrelated to the issue of race.

What you're talking about here is not a form of discrimination that is illegal. The situation you describe is one in which the majority holds certain values, while a minority holds opposing values. There are numerous political groups in the U.S. (socialists, communists, anarchists, religious fundamentalists) whose views are not popular and are not supported by mainstream society. They still have the right to say what they want. But in that same vein, other people have the right to disagree. And when the majority disagrees with you, they disagree in large numbers. We'll likely never see the Socialist Party in the U.S. come into power. When they voice their views, they are often dismissed outright by mainstream voices in the political scene. That is not unlawful discrimination. That's just a large number of people in society disagreeing with their views.

I don't know how it works wherever you are, but that is the situation in U.S. society.