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Operation Starfall: Bringing Life to SMRPG Again

salvucci91

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+1

Love that this is a thing. Geno and Mallow going unused for so long is criminal. Their popularity goes beyond this “I like them because they’re obscure;” they truly are a couple of bad asses lol.
 

Datboigeno

Smash Lord
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Jun 15, 2018
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when you have to call geno a side character because you're salty he's getting attention
Yeah it's interesting to see the mental gymnastics people perform when it comes to Geno. I've seen people claim that he's a non-important part of SMRPG, that he's from an obscure game, and that he's a "bad OC". Whatever that means.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Yeah, people aren't giving Geno, Mallow, and SMRPG in general a very fair view, but we should stay positive and patient about this campaign. It will pay off
 
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EarlTamm

Smash Hero
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Jun 17, 2018
Messages
7,329
Yeah, people aren't giving Geno, Mallow, and SMRPG in general a very fair view, but we should stay positive and patient about this campaign. It will pay off
Yeah, let's just focus on what we love rather than what others dislike.
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
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3,905
But he IS actually a side character though. Yoshi, Toad, Luigi, Rosalina are all considered side characters in the Mario series so Geno would be too.
Pretty much. Sure, in SMRPG, he and Mallow are two of the five main protagonists, but if they were to be in any other Mario series game or spinoff, they would be classified as side characters. It's much like a Luigi and Yoshi situation where they are still side characters, even if protagonists in their own games.
 

Guybrush20X6

Creator of Lego Theory
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This just in: the campaign has become newsworthy to Nintendo Life!

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...mario_rpgs_geno_and_mallow_in_online_petition

And no, Ryan, Waluigi not being playable here has nothing to do with whether anyone asks for him via petition or not, he's a comic relief NPC until further notice.
Word of warning, do NOT read the comments section unless you want an eyeful of

"How DARE people respectfully ask for something! They are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO entitled!"

I think the internet has trained people to pavlovianly respond to "petition" with "entitled".
 

Freduardo

Smash Champion
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Jan 8, 2014
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2,331

YoshiandToad

Smash Hero
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Dec 24, 2001
Messages
7,113
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Still up Peach's dress.
A bit off topic, but where did the sudden Geno hate come from? It spread like wild fire. Lots of people are suddenly rooting against Geno.
I've been in that particular camp so I can shed some light on my own perspective at least if you're genuinely interested:

K. Rool was the main villain of the Donkey Kong series overall, Ridley is one of, if not THE most famous villain for Metroid...Geno...appeared a third of the way through one Mario game over 20 years ago which didn't even release to 1/3 of the world.

Seeing many of the more zealous Geno fans equate Geno's importance to those two was a little frustrating, particularly whilst damning more reoccurring Mario cast members such as Captain/Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi and in Sm4sh Daisy and Bowser Jr (prior to his reveal) due to being competition.

Heck, Geno's situation is just perplexing to myself and many others because lots of people adore Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door but no one's rallying for Vivian(who seems to be the most popular paper partner) to join the roster, thus it does seem like a really weird bandwagon caused by Sakurai uttering his name during Brawl to those outside the Geno hype circle.

As great as SMRPG is, I, and I expect others, don't think the game should warrant the inclusion of an exclusive character all to itself and I just don't think Super Smash Bros. should be the revival vehicle for Geno when not all the main Mario cast are present still, and you have to balance the Super Mario group with other Nintendo series.
If he was the solo protagonist of an unrepresented series I'd be all for it, but he's unfortunately, at current, a one time side character in one of the most represented series within the Smash Bros. crossover.

...HOWEVER...
(put down your pitchforks and torches, this is a BIG BIG HOWEVER)

...I DO think Geno and Mallow deserve a revival similar to Pauline and a chance to join the main reoccurring Mario roster.
I want to see Geno appear in Galaxy 3 where he really should belong, I want to witness Mallow rolling a six in Mario Party and leaping off of his lower half in anticipation. I want to see the two of them team up in Mario Tennis as a doubles pair, I want to see Boshi get added to Wario's crew and yes, I want to see a polished graphically enhanced SMRPG become a big success, because it could be wonderful, and it could be a character revival on par with Sonic Mania reviving Mighty and Ray.

When Geno and Mallow join the rest of the Mario gang doing 150cc on Rainbow Road or simply putting in regular appearances in just the Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario games, if Nintendo and Square want to keep them RPG exclusive, I wouldn't mind seeing them as playable smash fighters at all...after Toad. Gotta keep my personal preferences there. Give him his Bazooka plz.

On a side note: I really dislike how poor Mallow gets ignored by the Smash community too despite being an awesome cloud creature with weather powers and character development in SMRPG. Very underrated.
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
It seems the NL coverage has officially doubled the numbers on the campaign, as we've reached the 500 milestone at 526 supporters. Way to go, y'all!

Addressing some further points:

Skepticism over whether the campaign will succeed is 100% healthy. After all, Rainfall and Moonfall are only two of many campaigns that managed to succeed against all odds. However, the lack of willingness to speak up and organize large projects as a result means that nothing will likely get done. Fighting for that small chance as opposed to allowing zero chance of it happening is a step up. Even if it's a very uphill battle, it legitimately does not hurt to try. After all, the massive outcry has already made NoA acknowledge SMRPG after years of being out of the radar. It got us spirits and a Mii costume in Smash. It got SMRPG re-released three times on the Wii, Wii U, and SNES Classic.

If we already have that momentum, we may be able to make use of it. If we don't do anything about it, then nothing will get done. Why stop now?

Another point I'd like to address is the older audience vs. younger audience debate. People who believe SMRPG's love is relegated only to people who grew up with the game or people who 'jumped on the bandwagon for Smash' are entirely off-the-mark. I've seen a lot of younger fans who played the VC releases, the SNES Classic release, or even played the game through Other Means™. There is actually quite a bit of a healthy audience of young people who know who Geno and Mallow are. Limiting it to just the SNES days is what people shortsightedly did over K. Rool, yet the Kampaign brought a lot of the younger fans out of the woodwork. K. Rool getting into Smash only increased the voices of those who were younger and were fans. Not all fans are that vocal, after all.

Will I be angry at Nintendo or Square if this doesn't succeed? No, because that will be actually entitled behavior. They are businesses first and foremost, and if a business takes a path that isn't fan-demanded, that is understandable. However, I will be happy in knowing that we, at the very least, tried instead of letting a chance slip through our fingers, even if only a perceived chance.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Oct 29, 2007
Messages
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The Western side of Pop Star.
It seems the NL coverage has officially doubled the numbers on the campaign, as we've reached the 500 milestone at 526 supporters. Way to go, y'all!

Addressing some further points:

Skepticism over whether the campaign will succeed is 100% healthy. After all, Rainfall and Moonfall are only two of many campaigns that managed to succeed against all odds. However, the lack of willingness to speak up and organize large projects as a result means that nothing will likely get done. Fighting for that small chance as opposed to allowing zero chance of it happening is a step up. Even if it's a very uphill battle, it legitimately does not hurt to try. After all, the massive outcry has already made NoA acknowledge SMRPG after years of being out of the radar. It got us spirits and a Mii costume in Smash. It got SMRPG re-released three times on the Wii, Wii U, and SNES Classic.

If we already have that momentum, we may be able to make use of it. If we don't do anything about it, then nothing will get done. Why stop now?

Another point I'd like to address is the older audience vs. younger audience debate. People who believe SMRPG's love is relegated only to people who grew up with the game or people who 'jumped on the bandwagon for Smash' are entirely off-the-mark. I've seen a lot of younger fans who played the VC releases, the SNES Classic release, or even played the game through Other Means™. There is actually quite a bit of a healthy audience of young people who know who Geno and Mallow are. Limiting it to just the SNES days is what people shortsightedly did over K. Rool, yet the Kampaign brought a lot of the younger fans out of the woodwork. K. Rool getting into Smash only increased the voices of those who were younger and were fans. Not all fans are that vocal, after all.

Will I be angry at Nintendo or Square if this doesn't succeed? No, because that will be actually entitled behavior. They are businesses first and foremost, and if a business takes a path that isn't fan-demanded, that is understandable. However, I will be happy in knowing that we, at the very least, tried instead of letting a chance slip through our fingers, even if only a perceived chance.
I see it like Rocky taking on Apollo Creed for the first time. Can you succeed? Not necessarily, but at the very least, ought to make the distance, so you can let people know that you fought to the limit and very end.
 

Guybrush20X6

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It seems the NL coverage has officially doubled the numbers on the campaign, as we've reached the 500 milestone at 526 supporters. Way to go, y'all!

Addressing some further points:

Skepticism over whether the campaign will succeed is 100% healthy. After all, Rainfall and Moonfall are only two of many campaigns that managed to succeed against all odds. However, the lack of willingness to speak up and organize large projects as a result means that nothing will likely get done. Fighting for that small chance as opposed to allowing zero chance of it happening is a step up. Even if it's a very uphill battle, it legitimately does not hurt to try. After all, the massive outcry has already made NoA acknowledge SMRPG after years of being out of the radar. It got us spirits and a Mii costume in Smash. It got SMRPG re-released three times on the Wii, Wii U, and SNES Classic.

If we already have that momentum, we may be able to make use of it. If we don't do anything about it, then nothing will get done. Why stop now?

Another point I'd like to address is the older audience vs. younger audience debate. People who believe SMRPG's love is relegated only to people who grew up with the game or people who 'jumped on the bandwagon for Smash' are entirely off-the-mark. I've seen a lot of younger fans who played the VC releases, the SNES Classic release, or even played the game through Other Means™. There is actually quite a bit of a healthy audience of young people who know who Geno and Mallow are. Limiting it to just the SNES days is what people shortsightedly did over K. Rool, yet the Kampaign brought a lot of the younger fans out of the woodwork. K. Rool getting into Smash only increased the voices of those who were younger and were fans. Not all fans are that vocal, after all.

Will I be angry at Nintendo or Square if this doesn't succeed? No, because that will be actually entitled behavior. They are businesses first and foremost, and if a business takes a path that isn't fan-demanded, that is understandable. However, I will be happy in knowing that we, at the very least, tried instead of letting a chance slip through our fingers, even if only a perceived chance.
Should be noted Nintendo denied that Rainfall did anything. But personally, I think that was a Macho thing.

Mario as a whole has a fractured universe with each game (outside of the "new" subseries) being treated as almost a separate entity. It's only recently we've had elements from the older games return like Mario World's Galoombas and 3's Tanooki suit. I think Nintendo should be willing to mix and match more, even outside this project's scope of SMRPG.
 

Ze Diglett

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This just in: the campaign has become newsworthy to Nintendo Life!

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...mario_rpgs_geno_and_mallow_in_online_petition

And no, Ryan, Waluigi not being playable here has nothing to do with whether anyone asks for him via petition or not, he's a comic relief NPC until further notice.
It's great that we're getting any kind of media coverage, but it really sucks that everyone in the comments seemingly took one cursory glance at the petition, shouted "MUH ENTITLEMENT" at us for wishing for something, and looked the other way. I get that petitions usually attract negative attention, but this isn't just to get Geno in Smash, and more importantly, the campaign goes beyond just the petition. It's like they didn't read the article at all past the title, quite frankly. I really wish these numskulls would take a closer look for half a second and realize that before decrying us as a bunch of entitled fanboys who won't get what we want.
To be fair to Vivian, there is somebody that's kind of important that still needs to be in first.

View attachment 185976
Holy ****, that is some good art. I never thought Papercraft Ridley would look so good.
Also, is that the void from Super Paper Mario behind him? That makes my childhood so happy. SPM gets referenced so little these days, it seems.
 
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KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
19,378
Location
The Western side of Pop Star.
It's great that we're getting any kind of media coverage, but it really sucks that everyone in the comments seemingly took one cursory glance at the petition, shouted "MUH ENTITLEMENT" at us for wishing for something, and looked the other way. I get that petitions usually attract negative attention, but this isn't just to get Geno in Smash, and more importantly, the campaign goes beyond just the petition. It's like they didn't read the article at all past the title, quite frankly. I really wish these numskulls would take a closer look for half a second and realize that before decrying us as a bunch of entitled fanboys who won't get what we want.

Holy ****, that is some good art. I never thought Papercraft Ridley would look so good.
Also, is that the void from Super Paper Mario behind him? That makes my childhood so happy. SPM gets referenced so little these days, it seems.
I mean, NL is in Europe, which never got SMRPG until the Wii days, so that doesn't help. If this was a campaign for bringing Isaac into more games instead, they'd be much likelier to be happy and willing to support.

Yeah, Neogandwatch is a pretty good artist, he's among the best to nail the PM style. Shame that he's apparently having problems knowing where to put his art next though (Tumblr's dying, DA is a hassle for him to use, and Twitter's going to have PNG compression limits).

Edit: Oh, and he even provided this empty version of Palutena's analysis from his Kirby comic for meme purposes, so feel free to fill this with a plausible argument for when any naysayer tries to claim why a character won't ever get in.

DtvrA-7UcAA16De.png
 
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owjies

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
361
I've been in that particular camp so I can shed some light on my own perspective at least if you're genuinely interested:

K. Rool was the main villain of the Donkey Kong series overall, Ridley is one of, if not THE most famous villain for Metroid...Geno...appeared a third of the way through one Mario game over 20 years ago which didn't even release to 1/3 of the world.

Seeing many of the more zealous Geno fans equate Geno's importance to those two was a little frustrating, particularly whilst damning more reoccurring Mario cast members such as Captain/Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi and in Sm4sh Daisy and Bowser Jr (prior to his reveal) due to being competition.

Heck, Geno's situation is just perplexing to myself and many others because lots of people adore Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door but no one's rallying for Vivian(who seems to be the most popular paper partner) to join the roster, thus it does seem like a really weird bandwagon caused by Sakurai uttering his name during Brawl to those outside the Geno hype circle.

As great as SMRPG is, I, and I expect others, don't think the game should warrant the inclusion of an exclusive character all to itself and I just don't think Super Smash Bros. should be the revival vehicle for Geno when not all the main Mario cast are present still, and you have to balance the Super Mario group with other Nintendo series.
If he was the solo protagonist of an unrepresented series I'd be all for it, but he's unfortunately, at current, a one time side character in one of the most represented series within the Smash Bros. crossover.

...HOWEVER...
(put down your pitchforks and torches, this is a BIG BIG HOWEVER)

...I DO think Geno and Mallow deserve a revival similar to Pauline and a chance to join the main reoccurring Mario roster.
I want to see Geno appear in Galaxy 3 where he really should belong, I want to witness Mallow rolling a six in Mario Party and leaping off of his lower half in anticipation. I want to see the two of them team up in Mario Tennis as a doubles pair, I want to see Boshi get added to Wario's crew and yes, I want to see a polished graphically enhanced SMRPG become a big success, because it could be wonderful, and it could be a character revival on par with Sonic Mania reviving Mighty and Ray.

When Geno and Mallow join the rest of the Mario gang doing 150cc on Rainbow Road or simply putting in regular appearances in just the Mario and Luigi and Paper Mario games, if Nintendo and Square want to keep them RPG exclusive, I wouldn't mind seeing them as playable smash fighters at all...after Toad. Gotta keep my personal preferences there. Give him his Bazooka plz.

On a side note: I really dislike how poor Mallow gets ignored by the Smash community too despite being an awesome cloud creature with weather powers and character development in SMRPG. Very underrated.
Those are all absolutely fair points. I will push back a bit and say that the reason Geno is often mentioned in the same sentence as Ridley and K. Rool is because of Brawl speculation. All three characters were considered to varying degrees with Geno, propelled by Sakurai's interest in the character, possibly just missing out on becoming a playable fighter. I agree with you that Geno does not compare to Ridley and K. Rool in terms of overall Nintendo relevance, but I think Geno must've had the edge in those days at least from a design perspective.

I also think the reason Geno has been pushed for Smash over the years is that whenever there's a new Smash game we know that the lines are open. Sakurai makes a point to listen to fans, so there's a distinct avenue to make it known that people want SMRPG content. That said, seeing that most of Ultimate's newcomers are also promoting an upcoming title, I agree that Operation Starfall is the way to go moving forward. Geno's just not going to make the roster without a presence elsewhere within Nintendo and/or Square.

I also totally agree that if Nintendo can revive Pauline, there's a place for Geno and Mallow. Here's a question and maybe a subject for some future fan art. What would Geno and Mallow's unique go-kart and motorcycle designs look like? I imagine Geno's deriving from his Geno Flash cannon. Perhaps Mallow's kart is based on Nimbus Land's Royal Bus?
 

paper roxy

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Heck, Geno's situation is just perplexing to myself and many others because lots of people adore Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door but no one's rallying for Vivian(who seems to be the most popular paper partner) to join the roster, thus it does seem like a really weird bandwagon caused by Sakurai uttering his name during Brawl to those outside the Geno hype circle.
i mean, ttyd is my favorite game of all time and i dont 100% see vivian getting in. i personally prefer geno's design more and i think he has a lot more moveset potential than vivian (if we do get a ttyd partner in smash i'd rather it be boberry if we're being honest but that probably wont happen either)
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
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Dec 7, 2018
Messages
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I also totally agree that if Nintendo can revive Pauline, there's a place for Geno and Mallow. Here's a question and maybe a subject for some future fan art. What would Geno and Mallow's unique go-kart and motorcycle designs look like? I imagine Geno's deriving from his Geno Flash cannon. Perhaps Mallow's kart is based on Nimbus Land's Royal Bus?
I agree on Mallow's kart concept, but oh boy, Geno's. I'd honestly love to see it reference the star cruiser from Paper Mario, the one where
Mario and his partners use it to fly to Bowser's castle from Star Sanctuary
... as it would be an amazing PM reference. Along with that, given the star spirits of that game being the ones who grant wishes, I could see Geno having a very close connection to them, probably as a protector while the star spirits focus on the actual wish-granting.

hey geno where were you when bowser took the star rod eh
 
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Super_Queijo

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Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
113
This just in: the campaign has become newsworthy to Nintendo Life!

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...mario_rpgs_geno_and_mallow_in_online_petition

And no, Ryan, Waluigi not being playable here has nothing to do with whether anyone asks for him via petition or not, he's a comic relief NPC until further notice.
That’s really cool! I’m gonna share the article on Reddit to get more coverage (being “news”, I can even share on r/Nintendo and /NintendoSwitch without the mods removing the post because of the “no petition policy”)
 

Loliko YnT

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It's really nice from Nintendo life to have done this article for us ! (Well , some comments made me question if they read the article , but whatever.)

We shouldn't be let down by pessimism or some old comments like "Square Enix never listen you bunch of dummies !" or "You are such ENTITLED FANBOYS/GIRLS FOR F*** SAKE!". Don't listen to them.

i'm still skeptical on Erdrick (not excpecting Geno , just someone else) but as long as the twitter page is made , I'll share it on twitter and my friends on Discord.

Also yeah , I discovered SMRPG last year with it's Wii U VC release , I don't own a SNES sadly.
 

Pikacraft64

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I’m gonna be home soon, so I have to do homework, and then I’ll work on the HTML files for the site. If anyone wants to help out by writing some sort of summary for a “why” page, that’d be extra helpful.
 

Lime3037

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Here's a question and maybe a subject for some future fan art. What would Geno and Mallow's unique go-kart and motorcycle designs look like? I imagine Geno's deriving from his Geno Flash cannon. Perhaps Mallow's kart is based on Nimbus Land's Royal Bus?
Someone named TriforceJ on DeviantArt made this. Here's his page: https://www.deviantart.com/triforcej

This is also a reason why Double Dash needs a sequel. Operation Doublefall?
 
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Dynamic Worlok

Shunted into the bad timeline
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Aug 28, 2018
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1,639
i mean, ttyd is my favorite game of all time and i dont 100% see vivian getting in. i personally prefer geno's design more and i think he has a lot more moveset potential than vivian (if we do get a ttyd partner in smash i'd rather it be boberry if we're being honest but that probably wont happen either)
There's only one paper mario character who deserves a playable appearance
 
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Dynamic Worlok

Shunted into the bad timeline
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1,639
Hi all.

I wasn't expecting us to be covered by a news site so soon!

So,

I went ahead and made the twitter account, @Op_Starfall. Give it a follow as we wait for official Geno deconfirmation then kick it into gear.
ALSO: I need a profile picture and a header. Perhaps you guys could have a little competition; whoever can draw me the best SMRPG/Geno/Mallow-related icon and/or header will have it used on the Twitter account.
if it's the operation starfall twitter,I'd recommend just using the logo as the avatar, that allows for more cohesive brand recognition, and makes it easier to recognize as the "official" account for it. as for the banner, go hog wild, Some SMRPG art would definitely be appropriate.
 
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Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
When it comes to the Twitter, I recommend using the logo for the Twitter, as well, yes. The banner being art from us would be amazing, though!

Given the size of the banner, what if we all made some artwork by a certain deadline and made a collage for the banner? I think that could be a really fun and cute community project that shows our passion! We can draw all of our favorite characters, from Toadofski to Mallow to Smithy and whoever else!
 
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Ovaltine

Smash Master
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Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
A quick notification:

The Twitter had to be remade due to a bit of a tiff Twitter had with LTP's email. The bright side is that we got it working on a singular e-mail dedicated solely to Operation Starfall. The actual Twitter link is here! Sorry for the mishap!
 

Icewolff92

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,620
A quick notification:

The Twitter had to be remade due to a bit of a tiff Twitter had with LTP's email. The bright side is that we got it working on a singular e-mail dedicated solely to Operation Starfall. The actual Twitter link is here! Sorry for the mishap!
Just started following. (Emblemaniac)
 

EarlTamm

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Messages
7,329
Just for something in general, if we ever do use art that was not made for this operation, make sure to get permission first and properly credit the creator. It's a good thing to keep in mind.
View attachment 185991Thought i could share this I found which I think was a fun one
  1. Geno
  2. Dixie
  3. Midna
  4. Sylux
  5. Kamek
  6. Adeleine
  7. Krystal
  8. It's very hard to choose
  9. Mother 1 Giygas
  10. Goroh
  11. Mach Rider
  12. The Black Knght
  13. Medusa
  14. Ashley
  15. Raiden
  16. Tails
  17. Louie
  18. I have no clue
  19. Zero
  20. No clue on this either
  21. King Hippo
  22. Mrs. Pac-Man
  23. Rex & Pyra
  24. Akuma
  25. Sephiroth
  26. Jeanne
  27. Octolings
  28. Alucard
  29. Tabuu
  30. Doomguy
 

Ovaltine

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
3,905
Just for something in general, if we ever do use art that was not made for this operation, make sure to get permission first and properly credit the creator. It's a good thing to keep in mind.
This is EXTREMELY imperative. I'm an artist myself, and using art without permission is extremely disrespectful. At least under my watch, I'll make sure that never happens.
 

Luigi The President

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
9,728
Location
Rogueport
Just for something in general, if we ever do use art that was not made for this operation, make sure to get permission first and properly credit the creator. It's a good thing to keep in mind.

  1. Geno
  2. Dixie
  3. Midna
  4. Sylux
  5. Kamek
  6. Adeleine
  7. Krystal
  8. It's very hard to choose
  9. Mother 1 Giygas
  10. Goroh
  11. Mach Rider
  12. The Black Knght
  13. Medusa
  14. Ashley
  15. Raiden
  16. Tails
  17. Louie
  18. I have no clue
  19. Zero
  20. No clue on this either
  21. King Hippo
  22. Mrs. Pac-Man
  23. Rex & Pyra
  24. Akuma
  25. Sephiroth
  26. Jeanne
  27. Octolings
  28. Alucard
  29. Tabuu
  30. Doomguy
Thank you for saying this; lots of people act like art doesn't need credit just because it's online, and that's bull****.
 
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