Online Brawl Community Doubles #7 - August 8th - Registration is day of event

[JonBeBonanza]

what???
how is it possible using the 63 ppl thing??
it better not be by that group mode or whatever they announced last week....

either way dont you need freind codes?

 

[darkNES386]

what???
how is it possible using the 63 ppl thing??
it better not be by that group mode or whatever they announced last week....

either way dont you need freind codes?

It's not possible using that. You can't. This is an ONLINE TOURNAMENT. There are two option. With ANYONE, where all you do is vote on rules and join a game with a complete stranger that you can't communicate with, or WITH FRIENDS. This requires you both to enter each other's friend codes.

That is the extent of Brawl's online support. There is also the spectator option for WITH ANYONE, but that is no good for online ORGANIZATION.

Please read the summary on the first post.
Better yet,Watch this video

We have to do everything ourselves if we want online organized play. There's no ladder, there's no online tournaments to join that Nintendo is hosting. You have to do it all yourself.

This is a tournament series that I am planning with anyone else who is interested in helping me.

Right now our current struggle is figuring out the best way to run the elimination bracket portion of our tournament ... strictly through THIS SCREEN:

This has been a work in progress since online was announced. So please dont' expect to fully understand everything instantly.

 

[-Wolfy-]

On the other forum someone mentioned setting the avatar next to your name to a certain symbol that would be representative of your region of the bracket. That plus the directors all having a different avatar so people will kind of get an idea of where people belong on their list.

And for elimination are you talking about an issue with a director hosting and then have the people who will at that point have their host's code and join that match? I guess I'm really asking is have we hit a technical snag or a rule based snag?

 

[darkNES386]

I guess I'm really asking is have we hit a technical snag or a rule based snag?

What we're trying to figure out right now is a method to follow.
For the pool portion...
1)Players post their registration information
2)Registration Closes
3)Players view their group and enter Brawl Codes
4)Players play their scheduled matches
5)When pool play is over players submit their results.
6)Directors/Helpers gather results
7)Qualifiers are announced


We don't have this organiziation yet for the elimination bracket. All we have right now is... x number of helpers/hosts will be involved with y number of competitors and a handful of overseeing directors.

Directors observe, the hosts will invite both players to the match with proper rules and eliminate their stocks.

We need to come up with a visual way to post the elimination bracket and a method of using the in-game message board to communicate results. It is possible to do. The biggest part of this is deciding the initial setup. If the posted elimination bracket designates who is in charge of which matches for both hosting and overseeing it shouldn't bet that difficult. I think I have a good system down, I'm giving it another day or so to settle in.

EDIT: Just you know what, let's end this discussion right now, I'll present my plan sometime soon and you can tell me if you have any problems with it.

 

[-Wolfy-]

lol grab the bull by the horns man. i spport you in whatever you come up with, and i'll be here, ready to help tweak things in need of being tweaked once you come up with it.

 

[darkNES386]

HERE: LOOK AT THIS <---- and tell me if it makes sense. Furthermore, how much more difficult do you think this will be for a double/best of X bracket setup?.

 

[worldjem7]

The only thing wrong with the double elim is that you need more people to watch all the matches.

the best of X setup isn't an issue seeing as how players would simply rejoin the game. Although there is always the matter of the counter-picking rule.

Winner enters first, picks, then loser picks, Stage is picked by director.

I think that would be a good system.

 

[THEmSHAKE]

Yes, I like that worldjem. While, a double could work it may be too much for the first tourny. A wait and see approch may be best.

 

[darkNES386]

The second video is up

 

[KraidGuy]

Ooh.... OK, got it. Cool T-shirt by the way.

 

[darkNES386]

thanks, just got it a couple days ago. Shy guy... what a character.

 

[AttackstorM]

all this sounds cool & all the only biggest problem we have to worry about is if it will be soo laggy that it is unplayable online like wiis first fighting game dbz bt3! i think we may know about if it lags or not when brawl releases in japan in about a month.

 

[Aaryk]

Video 2 = win

That ladder system you had me come up with, not going so hot. WGWolv and I are having some character problems, where we can only allow a number of people that is multiple with a certain number, such as 4, 8, 12, etc.

I was thinking, in terms of pooling, if there is a large amount of people, and we can only assume there will be, is just assign certain people with an entrant number when they register, then just use a random number producer to put people in pools, rather than do it by hand. Then (I'm actually thinking of these things as I type), we can re-assign people numbers according to how many points they earned, and then maybe just take a day and bracket them by hand, and the numbers you are assigned can be your seed in the elimination.

and IMO you look and sound pretty deserving of that hot girlfriend voice you paraded around in vid1 XD

 

[darkNES386]

@AttackstorM - yes, hopefully lag will be something we can start planning for after Brawl's Japan release. Worst case scenario... we don't know till we get it and then I discover that certain people in various parts of the U.S. that I've planned to test with... turn out to not work at a speed worth playing. Only time will tell... we are at the mercy of the internet.

Video 2 = win

That ladder system you had me come up with, not going so hot. WGWolv and I are having some character problems, where we can only allow a number of people that is multiple with a certain number, such as 4, 8, 12, etc.

I was thinking, in terms of pooling, if there is a large amount of people, and we can only assume there will be, is just assign certain people with an entrant number when they register, then just use a random number producer to put people in pools, rather than do it by hand. Then (I'm actually thinking of these things as I type), we can re-assign people numbers according to how many points they earned, and then maybe just take a day and bracket them by hand, and the numbers you are assigned can be your seed in the elimination.

and IMO you look and sound pretty deserving of that hot girlfriend voice you paraded around in vid1 XD

Yeah, I wrote a program in MATLAB it works fine for pool sorting HERE<--- It works fine, but right now it doesn't take seeds into account. Each player corresponds to a number. Manually picking is not an option. No way are we doing that. The above code is fine for the first tournament.

If you're having trouble with the ladder system, I'll try and figure something out for later. It's really not a priority right now. It's just a matter of figuring out how much work will need to be done manually. This will tie in with the seeding for pools. Oh and by the way if you can't tell, the pools will always setup for a number of groups = to 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,... you get the point.

Thanks for all the compliments on the video.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Excellent 2nd video, darkNES386.
I like your sollution to the spectator dilemma. Simple, yet brilliant.

Oh, and even though you're a sexy dude, I must admit the sexiness of your girlfriend's voice dominates your own. No hard feelings.

 

[darkNES386]

I can't take credit for the obvious spectator solution, shake actually came up with that long, long ago when planning for this began elsewhere... I even recall him stating it in a way where he presumed that I had already considered it.

EDIT:
HERE'S what he said waaaaay back in September word for word to me:

This is a short general list of ideas.

1. Using this forum to register participants in a certain tourny and gain the needed friend code.

2. Setting up brackets, times, results, ect.

3. Using a 3rd party judge to go in, suicide all stock, and observe match for issues of lag and cheating.

 

[THEmSHAKE]

Thanks for the props darkNES.

 

[Nano516]

I'm gonna be in the tornament, but I'm too lazy to do all those stuffs. My Smash name I'm planning is Nano

 

[AttackstorM]

@AttackstorM - yes, hopefully lag will be something we can start planning for after Brawl's Japan release. Worst case scenario... we don't know till we get it and then I discover that certain people in various parts of the U.S. that I've planned to test with... turn out to not work at a speed worth playing. Only time will tell... we are at the mercy of the internet.



Yeah, I wrote a program in MATLAB it works fine for pool sorting HERE<--- It works fine, but right now it doesn't take seeds into account. Each player corresponds to a number. Manually picking is not an option. No way are we doing that. The above code is fine for the first tournament.

If you're having trouble with the ladder system, I'll try and figure something out for later. It's really not a priority right now. It's just a matter of figuring out how much work will need to be done manually. This will tie in with the seeding for pools. Oh and by the way if you can't tell, the pools will always setup for a number of groups = to 2,4,8,16,32,64,128,... you get the point.

Thanks for all the compliments on the video.

i go to school for computer science, im a good programmer. ...just let me know if i could whip something up to help out

 

[darkNES386]

AttackstorM, I will not forget you.

Everyone else... please share your thoughts on the update in the main post.

Does it make sense?

 

[-Wolfy-]

The update to the rules is awesome and necessary. Me and Jem were talking about this(can't remember if you were in the chat, you were in and out), but its definitel something that needed to be done. With this kind of thing you can sacrifice feasibility for organization or you can sacrifice organization for feasibility. It's good that we are maknig it so that people have some leeway, and as long as results are posted correctly, there won't be much of a problem. Kudos.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Wait... what was changed in the roundrobin format? I'm missing something evidently.

 

[worldjem7]

The original plan for the round robin was to have matches played at designated times:

game1: 9pm
game2: 9:10pm
etc...

Until all the games were played.

What has CHANGED is that we are no longer being so strict about it anymore. Instead of designated times for each individual match there will just be a Start Time and an End Time for your matches along with a deadline for submitting your results.

 

[brawlpro]

I'm gonna do these.

 

[Aaryk]

And with those round robin changes, the only foreseeable snag that I saw goes right out the window.
What do you propose we do if someone signs up, gets pooled, and then never logs on and just doesn't play their matches? Automatic win points for everyone in the pool? That could work, except for if that person only plays against a few members. Then, its like giving a free advantage to those who were lucky enough to not play him.

I propose that if a person does not fully participate, they and the points that their matches create should be nullified. I don't know, anyone else have any input on this? Or am I overcomplicating things?

 

[Aaryk]

Ahh, and I remembered the other thing that had been dogging my thoughts.
Idk if this has been noted or addressed yet, but Sakurai said that they won't be able to swap in a computer for "With Friends" matches.
We can probably assume that the game will just cut out and go back to the main menu, hopefully without the elevator music like in Strikers >_<

 

[worldjem7]

Yes you are overcomplicating things.

If someone doesn't participate then, the person they were supposed to face just puts "did not play" and the tourney continues. A person COULD try to lie but, then the person who didn't play could just as easily do the same. If this is the case then that means there is a conflict and no one get ANY points. Such is the benefits of being honest: The more honest you are the more points you'll get the greater your chances of making it farther in the tournament.

 

[Handorin]

I'm looking forward to this.

I looked over the first page, and I havnt looked through all 7 pages of this, but has multiple users of a Wii been addressed, and also what happens if they have to fight? ex. my brother and I want to enter (not necisarily (arg) a friend)

 

[darkNES386]

And with those round robin changes, the only foreseeable snag that I saw goes right out the window.
What do you propose we do if someone signs up, gets pooled, and then never logs on and just doesn't play their matches? Automatic win points for everyone in the pool? That could work, except for if that person only plays against a few members. Then, its like giving a free advantage to those who were lucky enough to not play him.

I propose that if a person does not fully participate, they and the points that their matches create should be nullified. I don't know, anyone else have any input on this? Or am I overcomplicating things?

First, if a player does not fully participate there is a chance they may not post their results.
If a player posts their results then see below for what they will say if they don't play against someone. Second, if they fail to post their results, either:
A) everyone will be awarded what they claim
B) everyone will not receive any credit for what they claim

The concern with A is that people have nothing to lose for claiming they won. Right now we can't do any sort of punish system for "no contest" because it could be abused both ways. Players may develop a strategy of reporting that for any losses in an attempt to make other players look bad.

IT IS STILL IN YOUR BEST INTEREST TO REPORT THE ACTUAL OUTCOME OF EACH MATCH!!!

Yes you are overcomplicating things.

If someone doesn't participate then, the person they were supposed to face just puts "did not play" and the tourney continues. A person COULD try to lie but, then the person who didn't play could just as easily do the same. If this is the case then that means there is a conflict and no one get ANY points. Such is the benefits of being honest: The more honest you are the more points you'll get the greater your chances of making it farther in the tournament.

It's going to be even more simple than what you two are discussing. Simplicity is the key I'm learning more and more. I know the first video says otherwise, but please be sure to say the following:

THE WINNER OF THE MATCH or....
"no contest"... that simple.
no contest will mean any of the following:
My opponent never connected to me, never accepted my invite, never created the game, did not make the proper rules and I had to quit (if that's possible) or disconnected (both of these may actually make the end of the game screen say - no contest).... basically anything that means you didn't see someone celebrating on the finish screen or you didn't see the final screen. No contest will not award points but it still will be valuable to keep an eye on any tendencies certain players may be displaying.

I'm gonna do these.

I'm glad to hear that.

I'm looking forward to this.

I looked over the first page, and I havnt looked through all 7 pages of this, but has multiple users of a Wii been addressed, and also what happens if they have to fight? ex. my brother and I want to enter (not necisarily (arg) a friend)

It has been addressed. This is obviously is a possible problem if everyone is playing at the same time. You have two options right now. You can either:

A) enter your brother as well with a different mii/brawl name which will generate a different Friend code when he signs on.
-you'll more than likely have a very difficult time completing all your matches since now you have to play twice as many matches

B) we won't be able to tell the difference.... let your brother play a couple of your matches

Either way, the current setup expects players to have their own wii and game. We still encourage those that want others to play to make it work somehow. Qualifying is very hard, so yeah... if you're not concerned about that it gives you some options.

 

[Handorin]

I was thinking again last night as I was going to sleep (lol)

I know sometimes the internet sometimes goes down for people. I know it's impossible to know the difference even if there was even if he came on a min later and said it "went down". And from the sound of it, points are better in no points. So will it be allowed to replay that match(es)? Or would it be up to the parties involved?

 

[darkNES386]

Obviously we have no control over what you anyone does. You are currently instructed to play each player only one time regardless of the outcome, DURING THE ROUND ROBIN. However, if people are given the chance to play multiple times, I believe we would start seeing more people abuse that privelage and disconnect purposely to generate a second match where they hopefully win. Let's not forget that this make the round robin take longer.

I don't want to sound mean, but if you're internet is bad then you should either just try the best you can or forget about online competative play. Mr. Sakurai has still not released what happens when there is a disconnect during "WITH FRIENDS." The tournament is purposely setup to kindly pass by people who have bad internet without a blatant no. IF enough people playing have a bad connection with you that it times out... then you more than likely will continue to struggle with other players.

Currently games like Mario Strikers Charged are possibly good predictors of your online Brawl capabilities. If you've expereienced lots of problems with that... I can only hope the best for you with Brawl.

We are hoping that somehow a disconnect reveals to us who went offline within the match (FOR ELIMINATION MATCHES). This way an official specator who suicided his stocks to observe can know who disconnected. If this is not the case, a second observer will just be watching the friends list to see if a player went from a status of BRAWLING to a status of OFFLINE. Either way, disconnects in elimination matches will not be tolerated. We open Pandora's box if we start letting players have rematches.

 

[darkNES386]

EDIT: sorry mods, somehow I double posted.

 

[Dynamism]

Don't apologize to the mods for accidently double posting on your own thread. It's not like any harm was done

So darkNES386, how often will there be tourneys in this series?

 

[darkNES386]

probably bi-weeklies, assume roughly 2-3 times a month. We were actually discussing this last night. We want to keep people interested. We have the potential to run a weekend event and post all the final results (including the ladder). I personally would host one every weekend if I had the time. Considering I do have other resource exhausters (school/gf) that may be too much for me to work with. Some are concerned it may also "take away" from the special ness of the series.

What are your thoughts Dynamism?

A quick comment about the ladder: The OBC tournament series is trying to find a balance between the hardcore competitor and the online casual. Let's put it this way... if you're that good and demanding more competition and the best players around online may never is the option you truly want. It could serve though as a substitute until some other event rolls around. I can personally tell you that unless my college hosts a BRAWL/MELEE event (thanks Alan for getting me into Melee again, you probably will never see this message) I will never travel... even this summer all the cards would have to line up properly. What I'm getting at is the point of the ladder is to give everyone a chance to see how they stack up within the community and to help us seed each following tournament as fairly as possible. No one wants a tournament where the top 4 players all end up in the same group.

 

[Aaryk]

I'm all for the ladder idea.
It'd be good for everyone, those who just want to play can get their kicks in the pools,
but the ladder will give the smasher a little something extra to play for.

 

[DarkDragoon]

This all sounds very complete and well done.
I can't wait to join in!
-DD

 

[Foe]

If you need help, don't be afraid to call.

 

[Dynamism]

Every weekend is almost pushing it. Not so much the "specialness" aspect, but possibly the workload (as you said) I would think more or less two weekends on and two weekends off. That way, if the first week is crouded, you can bump people to the next week. Or people that can't make one can make the other. This also opens some breathing room towards any regulars (as well as yourself) in terms of other events and functions. Things could get hectic and dull with a constant generic (almost unrecognizable process) with a confident weekend set up. If you get a steady bases of smashers, it could turn into a very "hot and cold" situation as far as turn out. (In population and quality smashers) With a designated, first two weeks of every month, type of system, the quality and quantity will be steady and the break is functional. You don't want this to drown out long term with people thinking "I'll go next weekend or the one after" but rather "Oh, that thing is next weekend, I wanna make this one" get it?

Even another possibility would be to have your "other resources" hold a smaller tourney on every weekend and from there, the ladder is set for that month and that seeding. With one larger tourney (like the actual one) held at the first weekend of the following month. Then it begins again.

Which is also another system I think should be implemented. How will you work the ladder system around the various "one timers" that show? If anything, I'd say make a ladder per month of the current contestants. When the following month (or length of set time) passes, you take the two formed ladders and fold them so the reoccurring competitors are on the actual ladder. Meanwhile you have the one timers, along with the maybe show up every once in a whilers spread out. That is probably the only way to set the ladder up to have a balance. And we all want a balanced roster (bad pun lol)

Glad you asked for my thoughts?

 

[darkNES386]

This all sounds very complete and well done.
I can't wait to join in!
-DD

Thanks for the enthusiasm

If you need help, don't be afraid to call.

Current discussion right now is on the ladder system. Feel free to take part. If you have any other ideas, questions or comments please post them. If you're talking about helping run the tournament... PM me. This all goes for anyone interested.

How will you work the ladder system around the various "one timers" that show? If anything, I'd say make a ladder per month of the current contestants. When the following month (or length of set time) passes, you take the two formed ladders and fold them so the reoccurring competitors are on the actual ladder. Meanwhile you have the one timers, along with the maybe show up every once in a whilers spread out. That is probably the only way to set the ladder up to have a balance. And we all want a balanced roster (bad pun lol)

Glad you asked for my thoughts?

Thanks for the input. Yes, I like your thoughts. Furthermore, we realize that the one timers and the players who can't make it to every event will need to be taken into account somehow for the ladder. We're looking at starting a continous rotation of "current results." After like the 5th or 6th tournament for example... the 7th tournament replaces the first for your overall score. 8th would replace second. Does this make sense?

 

[GodAtHand]

Hello, I am both new to these boards and wicked excited for this competition!

Theres no doubt that I will be here the day brawl comes out to register my code and such.

Thanks for organizing this!

Side question - Do you think Nintendo will hold real tournaments for special titles or something? I would love to have a chance to actually win something!