Olimar Wish List: Ideas for the good captain for future patches

[Shokio]

He definitely needed a damage nerf, as well as a juggling nerf.

But I'm sad to see the snowball effect gone, it's part of what made him REALLY fun. I think it would've been completely fair to keep the knockback growth with the budding/blossoming considering the Pikmin got significant HP nerfs.

But that's not to say I don't understand why this change was made. In combination with the new 20% RNG and the knockbacks not being reliant on budding anymore, it makes sacrificing Pikmin a lot less stressful, and was made to accommodate the new ability to throw Pikmin off-stage in order to edge-guard. It adds a new dynamic that previously wasn't there, the only problem is that it simply isn't fun.

Some changes just seem to be made "just cause" though, and his obvious bugs that everybody thought would be fixed still weren't fixed. Also, make Up-B a kill move combo-finisher pls.

 

[steelguttey]

i had an idea of leaf's being 3.5 version, bud being in between 3.0 and 3.5 and flower being 3.0 flower. brings back snowballing and makes you feel it when you lose a pikmin.

 

[robosteven]

his obvious bugs that everybody thought would be fixed still weren't fixed. Also, make Up-B a kill move combo-finisher pls.

Redesigning his up-b entirely to be not based on Pikmin would fix this problem.

I've been saying this since I picked up this ****ty character.

also grab bugs. Redesigning his grab would fix that too, but his grab is one of the few interesting/good things about the character so I dunno.

 

[B.W.]

I don't want his grab to be changed, just fixed. His grab is like the best tether grab, and he kind of needs it. It helps him keep up with the rest of the cast.

 

[robosteven]

I don't want his grab to be changed, just fixed. His grab is like the best tether grab, and he kind of needs it. It helps him keep up with the rest of the cast.

that's more or less what I meant lol

 

[steelguttey]

can we rename this thread "3.5 olimar support group"

 

[Ningildo]

Pikmin need some kind of armor so they can get at least one hit in when latched and be the approach forcer they were meant to be.

Also, I'd like thrown Pikmin to ignore Fox lasers so we can actually have a some kind of neutral against him, instead of auto losing neutral and being forced to approach with next to no safe approach options.

 

[robosteven]

They could always make Pikmin not latch onto people and work kinda like purples currently do.

...except whites. They're perfect.

 

[B.W.]

Or just make the first hit happen the moment they make contact.

 

[robosteven]

after playing a bunch of friendlies at Smashing Grounds today I decided that the only changes he really needs now are an up-b rework, grab bug fixes, and (possibly drastic) changes to Pikmin Throw.

White Pikmin are still amazing.

New f-smash is perfect.

 

[steelguttey]

yea who needs rng to be removed

 

[B.W.]

I'd play him, good or bad, if his Up-B didn't fall apart still.

That's the reason I stopped playing him in 3.0.

 

[robosteven]

I'm not too adamant about rng being removed from Olimar when Turnips and Judge still exist.

...it certainly wouldn't hurt him though.

 

[steelguttey]

the thing about turnips and judge are that judge is the good kind of rng. judge has huge lag at the start and theres a p big chance you are going to take 10% damage and nothing is going to happen. turnips are well designed cause you take one out and you have to use them or do some **** that requires alot of prerequisites to do normals.

olimar is based around pikmin tho, and rng stops him from doing **** that other characters do because of it.

 

[robosteven]

At this point though, all of his Pikmin are good enough, along with the RNG being balanced to 20% across the board, to create combos and take stocks with. RNG is still dumb, but it's not character-crippling.

...Grab bugs and his up-b on the other hand...

also

rng stops him from doing **** that other characters do because of it.

also

rng stops him from doing **** that other characters do because of it.

like what, win? RNG isn't preventing him from winning, it's his inconsistent recovery and lack of a strong neutral option that isn't pivot grab.

 

[Shokio]

Am I the only one who feels like his knockbacks on non-purples are a tad too weak? I don't know about ya'll, but I keep finding myself having to get people up to like 140% to finally kill them unless it's a Purple, or I get an edge-guard of course.

 

[steelguttey]

red aerials are the strongest aerials still iirc

 

[Pelet_PR]

Im really happy with what the development team did with Olimar in PM 3.5, things such as spawning with pikmin, increasing the % on purple pikmin pluck, antenna color alert, fast frame yellow pikmin and even removing downthrow chain grab on most of the cast (fair enough). However, because the game is mostly revolved around characters such as fox, Olimar doesn't have the tools to compete in the competitive level against characters such as Spacies, Sheik, etc. I have played and analysed high skilled level matches with players such as Comet (top Sonic player, currently ranked 5th), Umbreon (top Sheik player), Excel_Zero (top Marth player, ranked 60 in melee around the world), Hawk (top fox player in PR), and many more, and they mostly have agreed w this. I wouldn't like these top tier characters to be nerfed since the current roy, sheik, fox (for example), have that HYPE speed and tech skill performance that brings excitement to the game. That been said, Olimar should definitely get buffed in order for him to compete against these characters in future patches.

 

[robosteven]

Im really happy with what the development team did with Olimar in PM 3.5, things such as spawning with pikmin, increasing the % on purple pikmin pluck, antenna color alert, fast frame yellow pikmin and even removing downthrow chain grab on most of the cast (fair enough). However, because the game is mostly revolved around characters such as fox, Olimar doesn't have the tools to compete in the competitive level against characters such as Spacies, Sheik, etc. I have played and analysed high skilled level matches with players such as Comet (top Sonic player, currently ranked 5th), Umbreon (top Sheik player), Excel_Zero (top Marth player, ranked 60 in melee around the world), Hawk (top fox player in PR), and many more, and they mostly have agreed w this. I wouldn't like these top tier characters to be nerfed since the current roy, sheik, fox (for example), have that HYPE speed and tech skill performance that brings excitement to the game. That been said, Olimar should definitely get buffed in order for him to compete against these characters in future patches.

...Like giving him the d-throw chaingrab at low percents?

It was good, but it wasn't game-breaking. I think they should make it so you can get a d-throw chain at low percents again but only with blues and probably whites. Up-throw still gets you guaranteed anything at low percents, the only thing different I've really changed about my grab combos is now I only have to use one throw to get them to work.

All in all though, Oli is a really simple character when it comes down to it and his punish game is still really slept on, but I don't think he needs any major buffs (aside from the obvious bug fixes and recovery change I constantly complain about).

edit: The incentive to change characters across-the-board to make their combos less braindead didn't reach Olimar by the way. His combos are still extremely easy, and they're practically free off of up-throw at most percents with all Pikmin except purple.

 

[B.W.]

I never understood the chain grab thing from PMDT. His chain grabs were good but they were heavily based on the Pikmin doing the throw and DIing correctly made let you eventually get out anyway.

Meanwhile you have characters like Sheik, Ganondorf, Marth, and Ike with chain grabs that either work the same way Olimar's did with better follow ups if the opponent DIs correctly. And three of those characters were better than Olimar was in 3.0, and their throws remained the same.

 

[robosteven]

disregard this post it was dumb and so am I

 

[it-a-albinomoose]

i have an idea about his pikmin pluck and want to get some other opinions, his rng pikmin pluck can really screw you over or give you the game in some situations but overall olimar lacks the ability to have all his options all at once while every other character always has every option with them, what do you guys think about making it so he has 5 pikmin (recovery balances would probably need to happen) each with one pikmin, and instead of fixed order pluck just have it replace whatever pikmin has died, this allows for olimar to have all options of pikmin available. this does take away some benefits of having more than one of a color so maybe keep in the rng a little where theres a 1/5 or 1/10 chance that a pluck will still be rng like it is now instead of the replacement color. this makes olimar a bit more consistent throughout a match and isnt like a cycled pluck where it encourages farming

 

[B.W.]

So basically 5 Pikmin and a limit to 1 each?

If that's what you're suggesting it's actually been suggested before. But as far as we know they haven't figured out how to do stuff like that.

 

[steelguttey]

also, having two of the same pikmin is gud

 

[robosteven]

can we talk about how amazing the whistled lineup is

White to purple, red, or blue is perfect.

 

[Pelet_PR]

I been thinking of ideas to make Olimar stand a chance. Crazy ideas would be stuff like, making his down B a sort of counter as well as whistle or having it have invincibility, make him stronger as a whole, maybe allowing chain grabs in general, making the red pikmin have a similar f-air knockback like sheiks', putting a sweet spot on the up-B like Ivys, adding hitbox on the up-b when recovering like before, maybe making his wavedash a lot better in order to keep up with meta characters speed. This are all off the wall ideas but I just think that something MUST be done to make him stand a chance. You guys have any ideas?

 

[Bolt_PR]

^^^^ interesting ideas Pelet

 

[robosteven]

I been thinking of ideas to make Olimar stand a chance. Crazy ideas would be stuff like, making his down B a sort of counter as well as whistle or having it have invincibility, make him stronger as a whole, maybe allowing chain grabs in general, making the red pikmin have a similar f-air knockback like sheiks', putting a sweet spot on the up-B like Ivys, adding hitbox on the up-b when recovering like before, maybe making his wavedash a lot better in order to keep up with meta characters speed. This are all off the wall ideas but I just think that something MUST be done to make him stand a chance. You guys have any ideas?

Fixing his bugs, possibly removing RNG, and changing his up-b would make him viable.

Pikmin Throw could use some work too, but Purple and White PT are great.

 

[steelguttey]

yea idk why everyone on here is making "OMG GROUNDBREAKING OLIMAR CHANGES FEATURING KNUCKLES FROM THE DEVIL MAY CRY SERIES" cus his kit, in theory, could work really well if important things were fixed

 

[Shokio]

I been thinking of ideas to make Olimar stand a chance. Crazy ideas would be stuff like, making his down B a sort of counter as well as whistle or having it have invincibility, make him stronger as a whole, maybe allowing chain grabs in general, making the red pikmin have a similar f-air knockback like sheiks', putting a sweet spot on the up-B like Ivys, adding hitbox on the up-b when recovering like before, maybe making his wavedash a lot better in order to keep up with meta characters speed. This are all off the wall ideas but I just think that something MUST be done to make him stand a chance. You guys have any ideas?

I understand the Back Room's initial reasons for taking the whistle's invincibility out, but in this current environment it's a tool that he definitely needs in order to compete. If they put armor on so that he takes the damage but not the knockback that'd be great. And like many of us suggested, his Up-B MUST become a combo-finishing kill move. It's only fitting. I was hitting people with it all day today and it's just anti-climatic to hit them with something cool looking only for them to not fly very far at all. It needs to kill.

The hitbox on the tether recovery doesn't need to come back, Pikmin just need to grab the ledge with their antennas, and not fall apart like ants when Olimar gets slightly tickled.

1. Whistle Armor, kinda like Yoshi's.
2. Up-B converted into a kill move.
3. Antenna ledge-grabbing and Pikmin stick with you better.
4. Bring chain grabs with down throw back pls? Yes they're generally silly but Olimar specifically kinda needs them. If anything, allow these with Blues and Whites at least.

I think those 4 things would make Olimar perfect.

 

[Pelet_PR]

Steelguttey: These are just ideas, Im not saying to make olimar broken and change his entire characters. This is a forum, we are just putting ideas out there to discuss. The reality of the situation is that Olimar NEEDS buff, and I know most people say that about their characters, but he TRUELY needs it. He CANNOT compete as he is currently with some characters. The PM team made an AMAZING work w spawning with pikmin, increasing the % on purple pikmin pluck, antenna color alert etc etc.

Shokio: I really like your ideas.

1. Whistle Armor, kinda like Yoshi's: This would be really cool, it would give more options to play around with and since it comes up so fast it can be use for recovery options, as a sort of "perry" counter attack and it might be usefull to take care of some of the pressure that fast characters can put in.
2. Up-B converted into a kill move: I definitely think that this SHOULD be a thing, it just helpful all the way around.
3. Antenna ledge-grabbing and Pikmin stick with you better. This is just a bug that they should be able to fix when the time comes.
4. Bring chain grabs with down throw back: I guess that if ANYTHING this should be it, bringing this would help against everyone that causes a problem right now. The idea of maybe making it with A specific pikmin (like blue or white) is perfect.

I also agree that 4 pikmin is perfect, there is no need for more or less. It keeps the player focused on the colors he has on his disposal (we should be greedy, this isn't brawl). I think the random factor is great, pikmin pluck order is not necessary, since right now it gives that sort of challenging gameplay, and if anything you can just toss them and pluck new ones, changing the purple % helps with consistency.

 

[robosteven]

Whistle armor was dumb and he doesn't need it.

If anything, attack/jump/literally anything-cancellable whistle and pluck would help him enough, and they're already pretty darn fast.

 

[steelguttey]

Steelguttey: These are just ideas, Im not saying to make olimar broken and change his entire characters. This is a forum, we are just putting ideas out there to discuss. The reality of the situation is that Olimar NEEDS buff, and I know most people say that about their characters, but he TRUELY needs it. He CANNOT compete as he is currently with some characters. The PM team made an AMAZING work w spawning with pikmin, increasing the % on purple pikmin pluck, antenna color alert etc etc.

never said he doesnt need buffs, im saying he doesnt need move reworks or wild **** like that.

also, i always thought it was funny that everyone loves the antannae change but 3.0 olimar players kinda knew what was next and remembered it. i dont even look at the antannae

 

[robosteven]

I do. Makes dash-dancing and figuring out which Pikmin I have in front while doing it actually possible lol

 

[Pelet_PR]

Steel, lol I feel the same way, the antenna its pretty cool, but I never look at it either.

 

[B.W.]

His kit works mostly fine. The proof in this is 3.0. Most of his kit actually wasn't even hit that hard. The biggest thing that got hit is his throws. U-Throw and D-Throw aren't very good anymore which makes it hard to start juggling people now, but the juggles are still there.

And then he has bugs and the new tether system destroys him.

 

[robosteven]

U-throw is actually still fine. D-throw is poop now though.

 

[steelguttey]

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[Ticker]

I think he should get six pikman back. Because netplay is bugged, I've been abusing the hell out of it and it defiantly improves him. Additionally, his pluck in netplay gets rid of a pikman and pulls a new one when your lineup is full, something I feel that makes the character less unwieldy

 

[Shokio]

Played some more Olimar today, extensively. I dunno, I just can't help but feel like there's a knockback problem with him. Olimar can still rack on damage fairly well, yeah, but I'm having trouble getting reliable kills with anything besides purples of course. I'll Up-Air or Fair somebody at 130 percent with a Red or Blue and they just won't die......I'm not used to this lol. Olimar was a powerhouse in 3.0, I can't help but feel he's just too weak knockback wise. Maybe I'm just trippin, but it's how I feel.

How I was miss the knockback snowball effect. I think it could co-exist with how the Dev Team currently wants him, it'll just add more options:

Throw your Pikmin for extra damage and edgeguards,
Or keep them so they hit harder

It would make Olimar fun again, and it would also allow for Olimar users do have different playstyles. It'd be so cool.