Olimar Wish List: Ideas for the good captain for future patches

[GeZ]

Well, it's because I decided to pick up Olimar last week just because people keep calling him bottom tier. Once I get some great tourney results I'm gonna drop him and go "See?" lol. He's a underrated character in my book.

Placing well with the character won't remove his fundamental flaws. Like there's a reason nobody is really set on doing what you're planning on doing.

 

[Shokio]

Yeah, that goes without saying. What I'm saying is, is that he's not nearly as bad as people make him out to be. He needs some tweaks and fixes here and there, but he's a totally viable character for high level play. SS got Top 8 at LTC2 for instance. And that guy's only 15 years old lol.

 

[Virum]

Olimar definitely has flaws, but honestly people who think he's right at the bottom I feel are bandwagoning and don't actually know anything/much about the character.

 

[B.W.]

Olimar is pretty Dan strong and still has some of the highest DPS in the game and has the tools to kill.

Like seriously the only major issue is that Pikmin hate you sometimes.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

I know I am a bit late to the argument, but what do you guys think of this.

There have been lots of suggestions for pikmin pluck. What about giving olimar 5 pikmin, and never allow 2 of the same type. Then pluck just pulls what pikmin you don't have. Then buff and differentiate each pikmin even more.

 

[B.W.]

This has been suggested before actually.

It's one of my personal favorite ideas, but from what I understand it's not exactly an easy thing to code. Or so I've been told.

 

[The Prince: SDJ]

I wish Olimar would have his electric immunity suit from Pikmin 2.....

 

[robosteven]

Olimar definitely has flaws, but honestly people who think he's right at the bottom I feel are bandwagoning and don't actually know anything/much about the character.

I don't see a character being able to rack up 70% damage or so in one grab combo being bad. Oli's legit, yo.

So y'know how Oli's f-smash is bad? Well, what if his f-smash involved swinging a Pikmin like a baseball bat? I mean, not to just copy the Mother kids, but his f-smash is really bad now.

I wish Olimar would have his electric immunity suit from Pikmin 2.....

Rocket-punch combo as his jab would be pretty dope too.

 

[TheGravyTrain]

@ B.W.

Of all of the "remove rng" suggestions it definitely is the best. Sure, you take away the ability to have 2 purples, but you gain an extra pikmin. I would only support it if pikmin got more different. I won't pretend to know the answer to how different or what the 5 distinctions should be, but I think it would be a solid improvement to how consistent he would be.

On a sidenote, if this change happened, I would also suggest a change to his whistle. I don't fully understand how whistle works now, but having just the color whose turn it is come up would be preferable. It would allow you to have more control of the order of your pikmin, order since you can only have 1 of each.

 

[steelguttey]

can we talk about how useless the explosion on whites is? like, yea its good, if it hits after the 2 seconds they have to press any button and smack it off. imo the explosion should come out earlier and have less knockback, so its more of an in combo thing. i would kill to have dem snake combos where the white explodes right as you knock them to the top.

 

[Oatmeal.]

Not sure if someone mentioned this already, but....

You all know Ivysaur's vine whip sweetspot. What if Olimar could do that with the Pikmin Chain, just only with the purple one on top? That wouldn't be so bad.

 

[B.W.]

I've had that White Pikmin explosion has finished people off by blowing them up into the top zone before. In real matches too.

Just sayin.

 

[steelguttey]

I've had that White Pikmin explosion has finished people off by blowing them up into the top zone before. In real matches too.

Just sayin.

did you feel like a god afterwards

 

[B.W.]

Yes, it was pretty glorious.

 

[Nuttre]

Sometimes My pikmin get fsmashed or something similar by an opponent and I don't see them again until I whistle, Which is annoying when i play a brawl style; SideB, Fsmash, Side B.
I dont always wanna bring a white to the front of my line.

Also, bring back old up air, before I would be able to follow up (don't laugh) in brawl, now when it connects I feel rushed as I am still in my animation while they are in hitstun.
I also have cstick issues sometimes when i'm using upsmash, it just doesn't work.


I do think that 5 pikmin is necessary, as I feel really pressured when im recovering to be completely synced, without 4 pikmin i have trouble recovering.
Not only that, but when I do have a white in my party, it can be hard to do the classic Side B -> Running Upsmash as wasting an upsmash makes me tentative to even try it. Its a 1 in 3 chance if the pikmin i'm throwing is another colour.

One other thing i think olimar needs is either slightly better air mobility or slightly faster run speed, I cant seem to use any of the disjointed or projectile traits olimar has if i'm constantly being pressured, even by slow characters.

EDIT: one more tiny thing is that I think having the light on his helmet change colour isn't gonna fix the problems, It's still small

 

[robosteven]

Also, bring back old up air

It'd be way too good. It's perfect for juggles the way it is.

Also the c-stick thing is weird, but that's at your end. C-stick works fine for up-smash.

If you're struggling with constant pressure from other characters, try nair-spamming. That move is great.

also don't use f-smash

also don't use f-smash

also DON'T USE F-SMASH

 

[steelguttey]

actually, i was just watching some ss videos and fsmash is a dank way of edgeguarding a spacie that recovers with side-b

 

[B.W.]

F-Smash has a few situational uses. But mostly don't use it.

 

[Master_Morrison]

You guys can grab a majority of characters from the ledge before they recover
Olimar is the only character that can grab characters off the ledge
So if they have a laggy recovery like bowser or do who don't sweet spot as well or go over the stage you can just grab the character
Also if they are just on the edge and they lose their invincibility you can grab them
But my suggestion for olimar is either more Pikmin or a reliable up b recovery that isn't a tether because his messes up on me a lot or we should get a crazy wind hit box on out whistle
Similar to ivy or some gtfo stun so that characters that shield pressure can stop

 

[B.W.]

Are you saying Olimar can grab people who are hanging from the ledge who aren't invincible?

Like he can grab their hands?

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Are you saying Olimar can grab people who are hanging from the ledge who aren't invincible?

Like he can grab their hands?

He can grab any character that has a body part above the ledge while hanging. This generally only happens with large characters like DK and Bowser who's faces are above the ledge when hanging. Characters who hang like Marth don't have that issue.

 

[B.W.]

That's interesting. Too bad I don't play this character anymore.

 

[steelguttey]

you betta when dat 3.5 comes out

 

[B.W.]

Nah. T.Link 4 lyfe

 

[robosteven]

In B.W.'s defense, Tink is hella fun.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

actually, i was just watching some ss videos and fsmash is a dank way of edgeguarding a spacie that recovers with side-b

ftilt feels better for this 5 me

 

[Nuttre]

Ive played a bit of brawl olimar and pm olimar and heres another few things i noticed.
Olimar feels a lot more slow and clunky (this might just be because theres not buffer window in pm) but i feel like its harder to dash cancel neutral b, fsmash (ive been told this doesnt even work anymore), and other ground options feel a little worse, which does not compliment olimar's ground based game. If this is an attempt to get olimar jumping then it doesnt really help as olimar's air mobility is kinda bad too. Olimar is also kinda floaty so shffling seems a little slow. So this make approaching olimar easier that i feel it should be.

Anyone help?

 

[B.W.]

SHFFLing isn't that slow with Olimar because he reaches the peak of his short hop very quickly. He had the lowest SH in the game after all.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Long time no post guys.

So awhile ago I was at a tourney. I used Oli and Ganon (HA, the proclaimed "low tiers" when they seriously aren't that bad) and I usually went first round with Oli and 2nd with Ganondorf.

Oli may have served as a "idk how to even play againest this character" to my opponents in retrospect, but I did show that I could beat people with him, further then that whole paradigm goes. In friendlies, I used him alot and can keep up with some upper tier characters, such as Mario,Falco, MK and a Wolf while I can safely beat Charizards, DKs, Toon Links and Kirbys. It's not easy, but it's do-able.

Then at this tourney, I got to Weon-X. After that match, I knew Olimar needed fixes and he would remain as my second string character. I got brutally 4-stocked. And ofcourse, he was using .

I feel there wasn't much I could have done, and I know he's one of Ontarios best PM/Melee players, but I know he wasn't unbeatable. If he got in on Oli, it was over - your Pikmin would be seperated and you were left to Nair. Don't even get me started on trying to pluck Pikmin, OR how his lasers beat your Pikmin either

.And before it looks like I'm garbage, 2nd match I used Ganondorf. It was a much better match, I got him to 1 stock. (almost Ganoncided him too! If only, if only).

So @ Virum , I agree Oli is really being over exaggerated, but he does have flaws that when exploited by these upper tier characters, make him extremely weak. Part of the reason nobody plays him is because he looks complicated, has RNG, and is problematic wit Pikmin sometimes. However, he has potential if he's refined a bit more, which I hope the PMBR are doing for 3.5. He's unique and allows for a cool way of thinking when playing as him, that no character really has.
At the same time, it sound like he'd be really hard to balance, as there are many more variables to adjust for him. They could add a few things to him and BAM he'd be broken. I may be mistaken, but in theory it sounds tough.

 

[robosteven]

I dunno, once they fix his recovery (as in make it not a tether reliant on Pikmin number) and fix his grab bugs he'll be fine. His f-smash could use work, but even with these tweaks he's still got some holes in his moveset that get totally beat out by characters like Marth and Fox. His side-b seems to be the only thing that's questionably broken at this point, his grab range and grab combo/juggle game are great, but they're by no means unbeatable. Sure, his damage output is cray-cray, and I see that being changed in 3.5, but even if his current problems were fixed he'd by no means be a broken character.

It's very interesting to me how fine the line apparently is for Olimar being either stupid good (Brawl moveset) or not exactly amazing or anything (current PM moveset). I just hope the PMDT makes the right choices, and I really like his current combo ability. It's the reason I play the character in the first place, the juggles and nair combos are so fun.

 

[Cubelarooso]

It's always bothered me that Olimar isn't the smallest character in the game, despite the central conceit of his series being playing as ants. Really, I think he should be notably tiny, to the extent that Bowser is notably huge.
As justification:
Being smaller wouldn't necessarily reduce his range, as the Rocket Fist shows his suit is canonically quite elastic, and his smashes/grabs are ranged anyway. In some sense (that being, relative to his hurtbox size) it would even increase. This same relativity would also improve his ability to dodge with DD, WD, SDI, etc., as well as make the Pikmin less crowded and their order more discernible.
Additionally, a simple preference for small characters may provide a (less intimidating than Pikmin-management) incentive for more players to explore him.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I got it - make Olimar super small and let him have 100 pikmin to attack with.

Solves all our problems

 

[RelaxAlax]

(A thought I had come to me and thought I should post before I forget sorry for weekwide double posts)

Maybe Olimar should be remodeled to always have the 5 Pikmin out from the start. They would become a part of the moveset at all time so RNG and plucking would be no more. Each could be assignment a different aerial or type of move i.e. Purps Fair, Yellow Dair, Reds Bair, Blues always grab etc.

Side B would still be the toss and depend on their order in line. The Pikmin could self manage themselves by and never desynch as their appropriate move would warp them back to Olimar. Neutral B and Down B could be totally new moves due to the Pikmin self managing themselves. Maybe Neutral B charges a Pikmins flower? If you throw them offstage they'd warp back/be replaced by a non-leveled Pikmin.

It would remove alot of the issues he has regarding RNG, AI and Pikmin failure, probably hard to implement though. That's why I'm a design student

What you guys think? Would this ruin Oli for you?

EDIT: Wow Shok commented in here, did not see that. Respect for trying Olimar.

 

[B.W.]

Kind of takes away from the kind of character Olimar is from the Pikmin games.

Also the fact that they cycle makes him an interesting character to play.

I know a lot of players do like the farming aspect of Olimar as well. I definitely wouldn't want to see it go.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I do too, I actually dig the farming, I was just offering an idea on how the team could fix him and make him fit into PMs style of play. If I had to choose between my idea and what he is now, I'd have to veto for the current model to be tuned up.

I disagree about it taking away from his character. In his games he uses Pikmin for certain tasks when others aren't applicable. There you can choose Pikmin, whereas here it's RNG - you get what you get. And also you wanna keep Pikmin alive for as long as possible in his games, not throw your Yellow ones off a cliff to get better ones

But detaching from his canon, I like how he plays, otherwise I wouldn't be pushing for him to get a few changes. I really hope he gets a few changes, otherwise he could really be OP. And I want him to still be my special character nobody else has

 

[TheGravyTrain]

(A thought I had come to me and thought I should post before I forget sorry for weekwide double posts)

Maybe Olimar should be remodeled to always have the 5 Pikmin out from the start. They would become a part of the moveset at all time so RNG and plucking would be no more. Each could be assignment a different aerial or type of move i.e. Purps Fair, Yellow Dair, Reds Bair, Blues always grab etc.

Side B would still be the toss and depend on their order in line. The Pikmin could self manage themselves by and never desynch as their appropriate move would warp them back to Olimar. Neutral B and Down B could be totally new moves due to the Pikmin self managing themselves. Maybe Neutral B charges a Pikmins flower? If you throw them offstage they'd warp back/be replaced by a non-leveled Pikmin.

It would remove alot of the issues he has regarding RNG, AI and Pikmin failure, probably hard to implement though. That's why I'm a design student

What you guys think? Would this ruin Oli for you?

EDIT: Wow Shok commented in here, did not see that. Respect for trying Olimar.

It is an interesting and unique idea, I will give you that. If I understand it correctly, only his specials would "care" what pikmin is next, since aerials (tilts/smashes included?) would disregard order and make there only 1 "version" of each move (aside from budding if that were a thing). If so, I think this takes too much of what makes Olimar special and unique. Someone will probably come on here talking about how this also betrays source material (ugh, so frustrating...), I don't really care about that. I do care about these strange unique characters that we can make viable and still retain their uniqueness. But hey, at least the idea is coherent and logical, albeit a bit betraying, if you will, to what I and a lot of others like about Olimar.

I still maintain what I said in my previous post. I think it is the best way to make Olimar more consistent, a very common complaint. One other addition. A common complaint with side b is that, disregarding purple, isn't a "real" projectile and is easy to swat away with the addition of l cancelling (before they couldn't just brush them off without risking punish). I said in another thread that a cool addition to the yellow pikmin would be to add some stun so it would have more combo potential in the neutral and guarantee at least some percent (not a lot) off of the opponent. This, the order change, and general pikmin error fixes and I will main Olimar in a heartbeat. He is still a lot of fun, just have issues with inconsistency when I have a poor lineup.

 

[steelguttey]

pikmin farming makes olimar boring and camping isnt exciting. look at any thread about ivysaur or link being op because they have the most polarizing matchups and i dont want olimar to ride that train. set order isnt good. smash 4 made this obvious.

 

[batistabus]

I don't think Olimar is particularly bad, but his design seems very messy to me. There are a TON of variables that go into how the performs at any given moment, and I feel like that makes him excessively difficult to master on one hand and almost impossible to predict on the other. Pikmin farming is a relatively interesting aspect of Brawl Olimar play, but in a faster game like PM, I'm not sure how feasible/rewarding it is.

Overall, I would like to see Olimar more consistent and normalized.

-Get rid of the bud/flower factor
-Pluck in a set sequence
-Give him a non-tether recovery
-buff/nerf/tweak accordingly

Edit: Also spawn with a full set. I'm not sure why he's the only character that has to waste time/invincibility just to be a at a normal fighting capacity.

 

[steelguttey]

wait

you say you think farming isnt good in pm

then you suggest a set order of pikmin

that doesnt work

anyway, the bud flower factor gives him really good power that isnt immediate. its good cause it gives him a good feel of when im top tier and when im **** tier. bud is brawl olimar, leaf is **** olimar, and flower is oplimar

his tether is fine really, suits his offstage game pretty well actually

 

[B.W.]

Farming is part of the character. You wanna get rid of farming you need to give him 5 Pikmin, one of each color, and make them have unlimited HP and make them not die when they fall off the ledge, but you can summon them back from the depths of hell with a whistle.

Personally I don't care for this. I like farming. When I farm for stuff and get what I need, it is indeed rewarding because I have even more power. Putting it in a set order would just guarantee me 4 Purples.