Olimar Wish List: Ideas for the good captain for future patches

[steelguttey]

when you up-b with alot of pikmin you dont get as much of a jump and with each pikmin you lose you get even more of a jump

but that feature wasnt ****ing added in

 

[robosteven]

I thought we were talking about PM still. Never mind.

 

[steelguttey]

we are talking about pm

 

[robosteven]

YO WHAT REALLY

that would be an amazing buff. It'd make recovery with one Pikmin actually possible!

 

[Matthew]

What would you guys think about being able to angle pikmin throw?

 

[robosteven]

It'd help.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

What would you guys think about being able to angle pikmin throw?

That'd be cool, not necessary, but cool.

I'd really like to be able to control the direction of his initial jump on his Up B. I could do all kinds of fun tricky stuff with that, and it may even be a usable on stage attack.

 

[Matthew]

I think that if they increase the hop on the up-b with less pikmin, then the empty hop without pikmin should have a hitbox so that you could hit opponents off the ledge. This would provide Olimar with a safer recovery. Also I would really like to speed up the aerial pikmin pluck and be able to fast fall out of it. It sometimes works surprisingly well in baiting in enemies.

I am going to Xanadu today, so I will see how far I can get with Olimar.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

I had an Idea that I think would be awesome for Olimar and probably easy to implement. It would be where Olimar can cancel out of his ariel Neutal B animation (Hop). So he could do an attack or jump out of his ariel Neutral B. I call it the Ariel B Cancel, or ABC.

I think this would be an awesome gameplay mechanic that would give him some ariel utility, allowing for safer returns to the edge (as he's really predictable) as well as give him some new stylish aproaches. It could also be used as a way to continue ariel combo's. I'm sure there are more creative things people could do with the mechanic but it would all make him more appealing to play if he had a few tricks up his sleeve that people could play with since right now, he's pretty straight forward.

 

[Matthew]

I had an Idea that I think would be awesome for Olimar and probably easy to implement. It would be where Olimar can cancel out of his ariel Neutal B animation (Hop). So he could do an attack or jump out of his ariel Neutral B. I call it the Ariel B Cancel, or ABC.

I think this would be an awesome gameplay mechanic that would give him some ariel utility, allowing for safer returns to the edge (as he's really predictable) as well as give him some new stylish aproaches. It could also be used as a way to continue ariel combo's. I'm sure there are more creative things people could do with the mechanic but it would all make him more appealing to play if he had a few tricks up his sleeve that people could play with since right now, he's pretty straight forward.

Sounds like another gimmick, jk good idea

 

[B.W.]

My only issue with this is that it basically creates the question "why not just give Olimar another jump?"

Unless you couldn't act out of the aerial pluck right away. But you can already act out of it fairly quickly to begin with.

 

[OddCrow]

Pikmin have weird interactions with falling platforms, I lost a very close tournament match yesterday, because when jumping off of the ghost platforms on Yoshi's they didn't follow, and my up-b did nothing. Also, the flower overlapping the ledge on up-b but not grabbing has got to go.

 

[B.W.]

The flower isn't where the ledge grab box is. Try to aim it as if you're trying to grab ledge with the Pikmins hands

 

[mimgrim]

Honestly, the only things I would want from Olimar would be because of Brawl.

Olimar as is actually feels a good bit like he does in Brawl, which is why I am subbing him with Peach (my main in Melee) since he transitions easier as a results to help out my Bowser, but there are still a few things that get me annoyed. Pluck feels so slow now. I would like a 5th Pikmin, I know 6 would be too much but I really feel like 5 would be perfect for PM and not make me afraid of throwing Pikmin around more. Fsmash with less end lag. I also miss the Whistle Armor and grab length Brawl had. But I can live without most of that stuff. I also know many people would object to them lol.

 

[B.W.]

Whistle armor would be dumb in this game. If it was the same from Brawl it'd make Whistle too dangerous to use. You'd get bopped most of the time.

If it had armor and was as fast as it is now it'd be broken.

Plucking can be done quickly but there's a rhythm to it now, you can't mash it out.

 

[robosteven]

Due to reasons of Pikmin being dumbasses and failing to recover a lot of the time, I wouldn't object the addition of another Pikmin at all. Thinking back on Brawl, MK was too good and was drastically changed (weight and fall speed) to make him play, in my opinion, much more comfortably in the PM cast. Olimar just feels like he got shafted. Give him another Pikmin and it'll increase his recovery enough to halt most complaints about his recovery while also giving him more security in using Pikmin Throw.

Unless you throw a purple or white, it's bad. The reason of "it racks up a ton of damage" is completely situational and only works if the other person completely ignores Pikmin latched on altogether (which never ever happens). Plus, with the quicker moves and pace of PM, dealing with Pikmin Throw is much easier than it was.

Whistle armor would be dumb though.

also make pikmin pluck mashable plz

 

[BC.]

Personally I feel like his f-smash is a situational move that is useless most of the time. I know the devs were trying to make it not overpowered like it was in brawl, but it is too slow and punishable to be worth throwing out, and the only people who get hit by it are people who don't even know what Olimar's tells for his smash attacks are. Obviously I would like it if the f-smash was as good as the Brawl f-smash, but that would be overpowered imo. They could make his f-smash much faster but have less range; that would be a good compromise.

 

[robosteven]

If it had the same startup and cooldown but actually had similar hitboxes throughout the entire throw it'd be useable.

Also if you could whistle Pikmin thrown off the edge with the f-smash that would be great.

...but it does neither of those things so it's garbage.

At this point, in every situation where you could use an f-smash, using a down-smash would be just as if not more effective.

 

[mimgrim]

Yes I know armor on Whistle would be too much lol. I just said I missed it lol.

Even in Brawl though, the Pikmin pluck was really "mashable", I consider mashable to be pressing a button(s) continuously and no thought required. The thing is with the Brawl pluck you had to time you plucking just right so you didn't pluck after you plucked out your last Pikmin and not get punished by the lag after the empty pluck.

I like the way Fsmash works in PM aside from the lag the move has, it feels like it has more range then Brawl Fsmash, and it going weaker the father it goes out is fine. I just hate how it isn't a safe move like it was in Brawl and isn't as safe as his other Smashes. Or just bring back Brawl Fsmash, which I don't feel would be overpowered.

I also miss his Brawl grab range but I have quickly gotten use to his grab range in P:M so it isn't a super big deal and it is still good.

Also why can't Pikmin latch on to a character in shield in P:M? That throws me off the most from Brawl.

 

[robosteven]

I'm pretty ****ing salty about the fact that his pikmin retain the invincibility on grab instead of Olimar himself. I feel like this in itself would warrant giving him craycray grab range. Every other tether character has that invincibility, heck, every other character has that invincibility. Why can't Olimar?

Personally, while it was insanely long, his grab range could be better. Against a lot of characters (like Marth) where grab combos are absolutely necessary, it's really difficult to even get the grab in the first place. Making it a bit longer would solve this problem. I don't think it'd make him OP, especially if the cooldown on missing a grab was drastically increased. He's practically a tether-grab character already, but it just feels shorter than other tether-grabs for some reason.

 

[mimgrim]

If Pikmin didn't retain invincibility on grab.... I probably wouldn't play Olimar. All the opponent has to do then is swat them away. I don't even want to think about that.

 

[robosteven]

well I mean

if you get the grab but an attack hits Olimar at the exact same time, the grab gets broken.

If the same thing happens to anyone else, the grab stays.

That's some crap.

If Pikmin didn't retain invincibility on grab, I wouldn't even bother with trying to use him competitively.

 

[B.W.]

They both need to have the invincibility is what Robosteven is saying. And I agree.

Also I'm pretty sure Marth's grab range is longer. I'll test that soon.

 

[robosteven]

My primary concern with his grab and invincibility problems are shield pressure. If you're getting attacked while shielding, most characters can just grab quicker than most attacks. Oli can't do that and I'm hella salty.

I mean, most tether characters can't really do that either, but at least they have the invincibility.

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

For future updates I would like if the whistle could retain momentum, this would allow olimar to weave in the air with added mobility through b reverse whistles, and could throw off the opponent very nicely. It gets the job done of swapping between fair and Bair, but I think that could add some in air mobility with his good ground game. The other thing others have already mentioned, I hate being broken out of a confirmed grab on the opponent.
As he is now, he is OK, but there is a weird lagginess feeling to the character I get when playing him. Dair could be sped a little, and those random acts of tether hate are annoying when I am in snap range and fail anyway. Seriously though his dair feels like ness down air in brawl, its too slow in a brawl environment much less pm. Better chance hitting with pk flash than olimar's dair in combat.

 

[GeZ]

Can we just broach the subject of giving Pikmin more radically different properties, but making it so they don't switch without Down B. That way Olimar gets to play as a character with a diverse combo set (different strings depending on the Pikmin because different knockback angles/ power/ effects for each one).

Like, that's the Olimar I want to play. Purple Pikmin for killing, Red for grounded combos, Yellow for aerial combos, Blue for grab game, and White filing some sort of auxiliary role. Of course they would have to be further diversified instead of just implementing the non switching, but I feel that that would make this character finally feel like a controllable force rather than a cloud of volatile RNG.

Whadya guys think?

 

[B.W.]

This has actually been talked about before. Having a set Pikmin in front with a max of 5 Pikmin to make Olimar more of a "stance" character.

I don't hate the idea, even now. I do like how Olimar is currently, but I'd still love to see how that would all work out. Especially if they rounded the Pikmin out.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Can we just broach the subject of giving Pikmin more radically different properties, but making it so they don't switch without Down B. That way Olimar gets to play as a character with a diverse combo set (different strings depending on the Pikmin because different knockback angles/ power/ effects for each one).

Like, that's the Olimar I want to play. Purple Pikmin for killing, Red for grounded combos, Yellow for aerial combos, Blue for grab game, and White filing some sort of auxiliary role. Of course they would have to be further diversified instead of just implementing the non switching, but I feel that that would make this character finally feel like a controllable force rather than a cloud of volatile RNG.

Whadya guys think?

I suggested a similar thing awhile back and it comes with problems. The problems lie in Olimar potentially being OP. If someone played mainly with the Purple Pikmin, they would deal a ton of knockback and damage in a short period of time. There would have to be some caviats to making it so you don't always have the same Pikmin. Here's how I would imagine it could be balanced.

Pikmin would switch if:
Used Fsmash
Used Side B
Whistle
Missed an Attack
Grab

Making it so Missing an Attack swaps Pikmin will encourage players to not get careless when attacking
The reason for switching on grabs is to eliminate extensive chain grabs.

All other attacks would let you keep the Pikmin last used as your next Pikmin in line. I think this would work because if you combo'd with Purple, you'd do so much knockback that it would shorten your combo's but ensure the same reletive % on the opponent.

 

[B.W.]

I made a google docs spreadsheet on an idea for Olimar after I started kind of messing with him. Apparently PMBR liked it according to Oro, but I doubt they'll roll with it ever.

This is that spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y4a-5UM0fDlNQivEktQ9sfnU_NflIqeQFU_jyDXlnDg/edit?usp=sharing

Do note though there are probably a lot of things on there that I wouldn't agree with now, but I haven' updated this thing in months. Nor do I ever plan to.

Also HP stuff is going to be based on Brawl stuff because I didn't know how HP worked yet. This was way before Aerodrome's thread and I was mostly taking data from what was known about him in Brawl.

 

[Wade Benedict]

Hey guys. First time posting in a Olimar thread. There are several changes I'd like to see with Olimar. One that I really liked that you guys have pointed out is his Whistle allowing him to float up a bit when in the air. I think that would really help with his recovery game. Allowing him to get his Pikmin back to him without losing altitude is great. Also it would help him out a lot if all of his Pikmin died while he is getting back to the stage.

Being able to keep using the same Pikmin until you use your Whistle to change the order would be really great, as that takes out a little bit of the distraction of you wondering what Pikmin you're going to be using next after you are about to make an attack with your current Pikmin.

Being able to use your Whistle to call your Pikmin back to you after you do any kind of move would help out so much. I hate constantly losing my Pikmin from accidently throwing them off the edge with F-Smash and not being able to call them back.

If there is anyway that you could spawn with Pikmin, that'd be amazing. I absolutely hate wasting my invincibility on plucking all of my Pikmin. That isn't much of a problem when you are spawning on a stage with a high platform like on Battlefield, because you spawn pretty much on the platform so you are able to start plucking right away. But spawing on a stage like Final Destination, you waste a bit of time falling all the way down to the stage, then you gotta pluck all your Pikmin which gives your opponent a better chance to beat the poopy out of you.

One of my most major problems that I'd like to see fixed with Olimar is that i'd like that the Pikmin he plucks to be already flowered. Why shorten the time it takes Pikmin to flowere, when we can just have them right away. I just do not understand why we must wait for our Pikmin to get stronger. There is already so much stuff that we have to worry about with Olimar that adding this feature would help us relax a bit while playing Olimar. One of my most frustrating things with Olimar, is when I finally get all the Pikmin that I want and they have all flowered, but then they just easily die from any hit, or the Pikmin just fall to their deaths or even straight up disappear at times. I honestly don't think that plucking already flowered Pikmin would make Olimar too good or anything like that.

 

[Player -0]

Pikmin aren't already flowered because it's rewarding you for keeping them alive.






Basically so people don't just spam pikmin throw. More of an incentive to fight instead of camp with projectiles.

 

[Wade Benedict]

Pikmin aren't already flowered because it's rewarding you for keeping them alive. Basically so people don't just spam pikmin throw. More of an incentive to fight instead of camp with projectiles.

Honestly that's a pretty silly reason. Why should we be forced to use a weaker character and have to hope that our Pikmin don't die off as easily as they do, just so that we can eventually get stronger? There is already so much stuff that we have to worry about with Olimar. So much management and random factors that it's ridiculous.

While playing Olimar we have to worry about plucking Pikmin as soon as we spawn, wasting our precious invincibility. And we don't even know what Pikmin we will be getting. We have to manage what order our Pikmin are in so that we can make proper plays off of them. We have to constantly make sure that we even have all of our Pikmin with us, which them easily dying off, desynching from us and them even straight up disappearing at times makes things difficult. Even recovering back to the stage we have to make sure we have all of our Pikmin on us so that we can get our best recovery. On top of all this, we must also try and keep our Pikmin alive so that they may hopefully flower, which I've already stated that it can be difficult because of so much stuff. As I said, being able to pluck already flowered Pikmin wouldn't make Olimar too good. Plucking flowered Pikmin would help lighten up some of the stress we have to go through while playing Olimar. Also it would just help keep Olimar up to par with all the other characters.

There is nothing stopping an Olimar player right now from spamming Pikmin Throw. I don't think anyone really does or would just spam that move at all. Throwing all your Pikmin away would just make you weaker once again seeing as you can't really do anything with Olimar by himself, thus putting you at a major disadvantage.

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

Honestly that's a pretty silly reason. Why should we be forced to use a weaker character and have to hope that our Pikmin don't die off as easily as they do, just so that we can eventually get stronger? There is already so much stuff that we have to worry about with Olimar. So much management and random factors that it's ridiculous.

While playing Olimar we have to worry about plucking Pikmin as soon as we spawn, wasting our precious invincibility. And we don't even know what Pikmin we will be getting. We have to manage what order our Pikmin are in so that we can make proper plays off of them. We have to constantly make sure that we even have all of our Pikmin with us, which them easily dying off, desynching from us and them even straight up disappearing at times makes things difficult. Even recovering back to the stage we have to make sure we have all of our Pikmin on us so that we can get our best recovery. On top of all this, we must also try and keep our Pikmin alive so that they may hopefully flower, which I've already stated that it can be difficult because of so much stuff. As I said, being able to pluck already flowered Pikmin wouldn't make Olimar too good. Plucking flowered Pikmin would help lighten up some of the stress we have to go through while playing Olimar. Also it would just help keep Olimar up to par with all the other characters.

There is nothing stopping an Olimar player right now from spamming Pikmin Throw. I don't think anyone really does or would just spam that move at all. Throwing all your Pikmin away would just make you weaker once again seeing as you can't really do anything with Olimar by himself, thus putting you at a major disadvantage.

I think plucking Flowered Pikmin would make him primed for OP status, when his other issues get fixed. I wouldn't mind them getting flowered faster since 30 seconds is about half a stock. 20 seconds would be fine.

Your right that we have a lot more to manage than other characters, but that's kinda the fun of it. Honestly though, I don't think that having 5 Pikmin would break him, or make him start spamming Pikmin. Having the power increased with flowers really prevents people from spamming throw too much. Plus if we had Set Pikmin order, we could have a full set in the begining. that'd be pretty cool.

How do others feel about the 5 Pikmin limit.

TL;DR
-Not spawning with Flower Pikmin is fine. they could flower faster.
-Having 5 Pikmin would be good and probably wouldn't break him.
-Thoughts?

 

[B.W.]

4 is fine. Kill RNG plucks and 3 might even be better.

Pikmin don't start flowered because they actually start out pretty strong to begin with. A red leaf F-Air does 15%. That's a pretty nice amount of damage on an aerial as fast as Olimar F-Air while also covering a huge area in front of Olimar.

Most similar attacks do 11% or so.

Then add to the case that a flowered Red F-Air does 17%. Its a pretty neat mechanic IMO. Its also not even one Olimar needs. He could probably perform just fine, after being fixed up, if Pikmin never got stronger over time.

 

[steelguttey]

sad thing is if pikmin did start flowered it would be a nerf to yellows lol

 

[B.W.]

I wish Yellow was good for something. That's my favorite Pikmin.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I wish Yellow was good for something.

Explosive sweetspots, a la bomb rocks.

 

[Shokio]

Pikmin have weird interactions with falling platforms, I lost a very close tournament match yesterday, because when jumping off of the ghost platforms on Yoshi's they didn't follow, and my up-b did nothing. Also, the flower overlapping the ledge on up-b but not grabbing has got to go.

^^^This. If the flower touches the ledge than they should goddamn grab it.

 

[Virum]

^^^This. If the flower touches the ledge than they should goddamn grab it.

You posting here is somewhat surreal to me .-. Might just be because I've been subbed to you on Youtube for so long. I dunno. But yeah I wholly agree.

 

[Shokio]

You posting here is somewhat surreal to me .-. Might just be because I've been subbed to you on Youtube for so long. I dunno. But yeah I wholly agree.

Well, it's because I decided to pick up Olimar last week just because people keep calling him bottom tier. Once I get some great tourney results I'm gonna drop him and go "See?" lol. He's a underrated character in my book.