Olimar Wish List: Ideas for the good captain for future patches

[B.W.]

So I did this...

http://imgur.com/a/BP5A1

 

[GrizzleDrizz1ed]

So I did this...

http://imgur.com/a/BP5A1

While I like the idea, we discussed it and other options in the Olimar Skype chat.

The alternate Option I presented, with lots of your input, was essentially a mix between Peaches recovery and Snakes recovery.

Olimars recovery would be him grabbing onto the onion as it quickly launches up, similar to Peaches (at an angle) but a little higher (3/4th's the height of Snake) dealing minor damage and knockback. Then Olimar would let go as the onion continued to fly upward, maintaining a weak hitbox. While Olimar is falling, he is able to attack. Him attacking out of it would give him some options when recovering to the stage but it'd be risky to use it offensively while on the stage since an opponents areal could easily punish it as he goes up. The onion in having a hitbox in the air after it's let go would give olimar some zoning options, but it wouldn't be very strong if they were hit by it.

 

[B.W.]

Right, but I'd still really only settle for that idea if technical limitations got in the way.

I still don't quite see anything wrong with the original idea.

 

[Beets]

Don't take my word for it, but (although your ( @ B.W. ) drawing is neat and cool, I don't believe that this is plausible, nor the best option for Olimar.

I honestly have no idea what the team should do but the more I think about it the more I believe tethers could perform well if they just worked and didn't leave you wide open for punishment.

Don't know what I would do, maybe experiment with ledge trumps a la Smash 4? It may be controversial but I'd be down.

 

[B.W.]

I believe the same thing. I believe B-Tethers can be salvaged. I'm even working on another illustration to show how I think they can be done to make them not total ass, but actually balanced.

But this is the best thing I could think of. People want his recovery to not depend on his Pikmin, and also not be a tether. I was playing Pikmin and this idea popped into my head.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I love this character. He needs fixes for sure. Maybe next version.

He's more interesting then Zelda play.

It's also fun to mess with scrubs wit him

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

Im colorblind so I can't tell the difference between the blue and purple light sometimes. It would be nice if they added the little arrow that is in Sm4sh over the current pikmin's head.

 

[robosteven]

Im colorblind so I can't tell the difference between the blue and purple light sometimes. It would be nice if they added the little arrow that is in Sm4sh over the current pikmin's head.

I'm not colorblind and they look really similar. They should make the purple light a little darker if possible.

 

[robosteven]

can I have 3.0 nair back please

 

[steelguttey]

what did they even change?

 

[robosteven]

Smaller size so the individual hits don't link into each other like they used to.

 

[robosteven]

This is me addressing my concern about Pikmin Throw vs sword characters.

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

ALL REJOICE! Olimar is receiving a new Up-B in 3.6 shown here around 1:40 against the ICs. It appears to be similar to Rosalina and Pit's recovery in Smash 4 where you just get sent at an upward angle. Maybe it could be a new neutral B in the air but I seriously doubt that. Scatch that it is definitely not a new neutral B.

 

[steelguttey]

youre kinda late mang

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

youre kinda late mang

Yeah I saw the other thread right after. But I just found it and im extremely excited.

 

[Taytertot]

not sure if someone has already thought of this but what if one of olimar's taunts ordered the pikmin and moved the pikmin order foward one color set (or just keep it as downB) and another taunt ordered the pikmin and moved the pikmin order back one color set (with the taunt being available in the air)?
This way, instead of having to downB a bunch to get to the pikmin color you wanted olimar had the ability to move the order in either direction to get to the pikmin he wanted. I dont think this would be too much of a buff to be unfair, though i might not be thinking of every situation.
My reasoning for thinking this would be a fair option for him is because in the pikmin games, one of the most important aspects is controlling and deciding what pikmin do what and which colors you want for the situation and so it seems natural to give olimar the choice of which direction to switch his pikmin order.

For those wondering how one would set up their controls for that, you could have R (or L depending on which you use for WD, Lcanceling, dodge/blocking) as one of the pikmin switches and x or y as the other, though i understand if it would be too powerful to give olimar another option by having downB free for something new, in which case maybe just one taunt and downB for switching back and forth pikmin. (Or alternatively downB could merely order the pikmin into the color set you are currently on and the 2 taunts would switch back and forth color sets but not arrange them. that way you'd have to downB in order to know which color you were set to and which one/s youd switch to with the taunts.)

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

To me, Olimar always looked like a super fun character to play with incredibly unique play style. The part that always pushes me away from characters are campy characters, but the bigger factor is randomization. Randomization is such a huge part of Oli with his pikmin right now, and it is very disappointing. An easy solution for this would be to have his pikmin go in order. But that would be lame in all honesty and he would still be that character unable to approach until he gets some time to pull out the right pikmin.
Here is where it gets good. MONADOLIMAR? I'll think of a better name later. Olimar wouldn't have a random selection of pikmin when he plucks them from the ground, but only 1 type. Instead of having his down special change the order of the pikmin, it will change all the pikmin to the same new kind of pikmin. EX: Oli has 3 red pikmin he drew at the beginning of the round, but when he used his down special, all the pikmin would change into the yellow pikmin, or what ever color goes after that. This of course would be unbalanced because pikmin have direct upgrades from other pikmin, which could be solved with nerfs and buffs accordingly to make all pikmin equal. EX: Purple would be less powerful and a little slower, and the whites would deal little damage but came out much faster than normal. But these are just ideas.
I realize that this is of course very similar to Shulk in Smash 4, but I've had this idea for a while and just recently joined smash board. I don't play the pikmin games or play Olimar much in PM so if PMDT was going for a Olimar game style and covered that with the current build of PM then that's cool, but I think this would help him be a more reliable and unique character. I would love to know what everyone thinks of this idea. Tell me if you think they are stupid or interesting, and why.

 

[Ningildo]

Oli isn't that bad at all and most people saying he is are still bandwagoning like it's 3.0.

His kit is solid but needs tweaks/buffs/bug fixes here and there...which he is getting in 3.6 (I think and hope). There's no need for a overcomplicated redesign to remove randomness, it's kinda dumb, but far from gamebreaking and far more bearable then such a complex new mechanic (which I still don't get, both of them 9.9 ).

The single biggest weakness of Olimar is gonna get fixed in 3.6 (recovery) and even now I think he's viable as is. Maybe main bias. I guess we'll find out when we get it.

 

[robosteven]

Oli's naturally campy because side-b, grab range, and his inability to trade safely. There's so much more to it than Pikmin order.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

Oli isn't that bad at all and most people saying he is are still bandwagoning like it's 3.0.

His kit is solid but needs tweaks/buffs/bug fixes here and there...which he is getting in 3.6 (I think and hope). There's no need for a overcomplicated redesign to remove randomness, it's kinda dumb, but far from gamebreaking and far more bearable then such a complex new mechanic (which I still don't get, both of them 9.9 ).

The single biggest weakness of Olimar is gonna get fixed in 3.6 (recovery) and even now I think he's viable as is. Maybe main bias. I guess we'll find out when we get it.

I have always hated characters that have a ton of randomness to them like peaches vegies and misfires. Thankfully PMDT has done a great job of reducing that factor by a large amount with store misfires and what not, but I feel that Olimar was neglected and still needs a push.

 

[steelguttey]

ideas for replacing rng that dont require anythig but simply creating space arent good ideas. you need to be rewarded for playing smart for it to be healthy

 

[Ningildo]

We should probably wait until we see how good 3.6 Oli is before suggesting any overhauls to...anything, really. I don't want Oli overbuffed/needlessly changed.

Also I have no clue how to fix rng issues properly.

 

[Shokio]

Now that he has a normal recover, the only thing I want back is the knockback scaling with the budding. The mechanic was just so fun and made him feel truly unique, but I would also like it to come back so that Oli mains would have variations in their playstyles where 1 person F-Smashes them off-stage and tosses them, and another keeps them so that they become more powerful and hit harder.

I just like the thought of that kind of variety.

 

[CrazyCupofJoe]

I definitely think we should wait until 3.6 to start making suggestions about current olimar. Maybe they already fixed stuff, maybe not. One thing I would like to see however would be a CG on fastfallers kind of like how marth has with Fox but up until 65%. Fox just obliterates Oli in the MU but if you have his grab the ability to get "free" 65% then you have a blue Pikmin ready to go, you could potentially end the stock right there.

The only problem would be normalizing throw power across all pikmin, maybe they could normalize just one throw, like maybe up-throw would always do the same amount no matter what pikmin but the rest of the throws are still affected by pikmin. Thoughts?

 

[RelaxAlax]

Yeah just make him good plz. The recovery is the first step :]

 

[robosteven]

I definitely think we should wait until 3.6 to start making suggestions about current olimar. Maybe they already fixed stuff, maybe not. One thing I would like to see however would be a CG on fastfallers kind of like how marth has with Fox but up until 65%. Fox just obliterates Oli in the MU but if you have his grab the ability to get "free" 65% then you have a blue Pikmin ready to go, you could potentially end the stock right there.

The only problem would be normalizing throw power across all pikmin, maybe they could normalize just one throw, like maybe up-throw would always do the same amount no matter what pikmin but the rest of the throws are still affected by pikmin. Thoughts?

3.5 didn't fix his big problems of 3.0. In fact, it nerfed one of the worst characters in the game at the time. It's fair to continue posting problems and suggestions.

If down-throw were brought back to the way it used to be I'm pretty sure it would help with beating spacies. Plus, if you throw them offstage instead of popping them up it should theoretically be a dead Fox because of Olimar's excellent edgeguarding ability.

speaking of edgeguarding when's dair getting buffed

 

[RelaxAlax]

Dairs good tho

 

[steelguttey]

olimars edgeguarding is silly. dair is amazing

 

[Shokio]

Don't know why he was given a tech chase throw.....especially since its not even good. I don't think tech-chasing fits this character at all.

I mean, he can do it.........it just doesn't feel/seem right.

 

[steelguttey]

fsmash is one of the best tech chase tools in the game

that move is so ****ing good

 

[robosteven]

Dairs good tho

dair is amazing

Being used to Marth, Falcon, and Ness, I'll probably never understand this until someone directly explains why it's good. Because it feels like an ass move to me and always has.

 

[steelguttey]

Being used to Marth, Falcon, and Ness, I'll probably never understand this until someone directly explains why it's good. Because it feels like an *** move to me and always has.

its literally the same thing as falcon's dair

it comes out on frame ~9 and has a sweetspot for the whole move, its amazing. purple is one of the strongest meteors in the game

 

[robosteven]

Maybe it's just the area of space that it covers that makes me feel like it's bad. Falcon's hitbox on dair is pretty massive, same with Marth, and Ness's comes out super fast. Oli's isn't all that big compared to the other stuff he has.

I've just never been able to safely use it as much as I've been able to safely use the other three moves I've listed.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Idk I guess I've just gotten use to the timing and such. I'll say it was weird to learn, probably bc Olimars short hop is weird as butts.

 

[steelguttey]

i love how the olimar gd is the wish list thread now

that really says something about oli players

 

[Captive]

I love his down air! The timing is a thing to get use to but it allows for some low percent kills all over the place.

 

[Ningildo]

Jab combo near edge > dair is a thing on certain characters. So is DA >dair, but only if your opponent DI's down and towards offstage.

Can I just say that DA is a great follow up after dthrow if they DI down in either direction to avoid upsmash? Is also great for carrying characters like roy towards the edge if they DI poorly or are afraid of ending up in a upair juggle.

Oli just needs ways to deal with spacies at this point, but I'll wait till after 3.6 to say that with certainty.

Oli edgeguarding is top tier between fsmash, dair, runoff fair and purple toss, lol. Too bad he gets edgeguarded super hard as well 9.9

 

[robosteven]

Can I just say that DA is a great follow up after dthrow if they DI down in either direction to avoid upsmash? Is also great for carrying characters like roy towards the edge if they DI poorly or are afraid of ending up in a upair juggle.

It also guarantees fair follow-ups if you land the later part of the attack on most chars.

Dash attack is excellent.

I'm stunned they didn't nerf it in 3.5.

 

[steelguttey]

dash attack is good but alot of oli players spam it for some reason

 

[Captive]

I spam dash attack... So does The Captain not have a moon walk or am I just not timing it right? I am talking about the c-stick method.