I appreciate the constructive criticism.
Characters with kill throws / DPS / range in general do not get to have an easy time getting grabs.
Sorry, I usually post on a Wii U because my computer is out of commission, and if you've ever used the Wii U internet you'll know how much of a pain it is to type up paragraphs. Let me go over every individual bullet and comment on each one because I actually think they're all worth talking about.
Pretty sure the reason Pikmin count was reduced was to avoid excessive use of Pikmin throw which, in the PM environment, I agree with. The move has the potential to rack up stupid amounts of damage really quickly just with four. Bringing back 6 Pikmin would help with the tether, but IMO it would absolutely break PT.
- keep color antennae, that is unbelievably brilliant
Yep.
I would love this, but I don't think it's necessesary. It's pretty quick as it is. ...but yeah, I'd love this.
- quicker pluck with less lag
I've had problems with the fact that Pikmin Pluck isn't mashable anymore since day 1 of Olimar being playable in PM, so I agree with this.
Armor on whistle isn't happening ever and people need to stop suggesting it lol
- reds for damage, yellow for range, blue for health and throws, purple for knockback, white for latch/pummel damage
The way they currently are is fine. Whites build up damage, Purples are crazy kb kill-moves, blues are already glorious throwers, yellows are speedy, and reds are consistent killers AND combo starters. Range on yellows would be nice, but the speed boost they got is good enough for me.
- do NOT let whites explode (for a game that aims to make character more faithful to their series this is most baffling to me)
Making whites do a little bit of stun when killed would be nice instead of causing them to explode when attached, but I don't mind exploding whites. I DO mind the fact that they explode earlier (same with all Pikmin letting go after attaching with Pikmin Throw) when attached to someone with high damage.
Steelguttey's got the right idea with making some kind of reward system, but I'd rather just have a system of five Pikmin with the impossibility of getting two of the same kind. I'm not fully backing this idea though, it's just a thought. RNG is awful, but I don't think set order is the way to go about it.
- revert to brawl uptilt, decrease knockback for combo potential
Brawl up-tilt was incredible, but I think current up-tilt is fine. It's one of his many kill-confirms, is quick, and doesn't have stupid lasting hitboxes to complain about. Nah.
- change nair to SSB Ness's sex kick
I'd actually thought about this, but it would have to have the same kb as the last hit of his current nair because his current nair is a combo setup. Plus, it beats crouch-canceling because multiple hits. Seriously, that move is one of his best aerials, I'd rather not nerf it.
- fix ness's dair animation, seriously why is it so lame looking
(assuming that was a typo and you meant Olimar) I'd like it touched up too, but not necessary.
- make jab quick, lagless, and pikmin 2 / smash 4-esque
His jab is already really good. I'd rather they just get rid of the weird no-kb small-damage hitboxes on the antennae or whatever that stuff even is. It is frame 4 though, so speeding it up couldn't hurt.
It already gives you positional advantage when you land with it, and he's already got a ton of kill moves.
- make dtilt work exactly like brawl, allowjngfor reliable damage and combo potential
it already pops people up for a free fair or uair what are you talking about
- shorten all range on grabs
You'd seriously take away his best tool just like that? Range doesn't need to be reduced, range isn't the problem. First off, the reason his grab is as good as it is is because the grabboxes last for so long. If you wanted to make the move "less jank," you'd make the Pikmin run really fast and reach the max distance in like five frames or something (like in Sm4sh). Second, to touch upon what you said earlier,
- Characters with kill throws / DPS / range in general do not get to have an easy time getting grabs.
Fox, Marth, Mario, and Falcon to name a few all have methods of easily landing grab, and they all have kill-confirms or gain incredible positional advantage out of throws. Their range is compensated by the fact that the cooldown on missing a grab (if you jump-cancel it, which you should always do) isn't much. Link, Tink, Samus, Lucas, Yoshi, and Ivysaur all have significant cooldown on a missed grab. However, all of them have either kill throws or "guaranteed setups" on landing specific grabs. Olimar isn't excluded from this, and he wasn't excluded from this in 3.0. Plus, his kill throws only happen when you land a blue grab (which is a Pikmin primarily designed for grabs and throws already) or a purple grab (which had the everloving **** nerfed out of its range). His grab is really good, but it's not unbeatable or unpunishable on whiff. It certainly doesn't have as much cooldown as Link or Samus's missed grab, but that's because the grabbox on the grabbing Pikmin lasts so long, which I wouldn't be opposed to adjusting.
- either give him grab armor or remove everyone else's
First one.
- increase range on p throw and all smashs
First one, maybe. Pikmin throw is tricky because of how much damage it can rack up combined with the fact that using it at all potentially sacrifices a quarter of your up-b, and increasing the range on it would make the possibility of straight up throwing one offstage even greater, as well as increasing the possibility of landing the move and racking up stupid amounts of damage, something that the PMDT is trying to avoid with the character in the first place, so I really don't know what to say about that one. Smashes however, no. Their range is fine (except purples, but I get the nerf). Up-smash is still great, down-smash is still great, and f-smash was fixed with the addition of the continuous hitbox.
- decrease health of pikmin across the board
This already happened, and it again ties in with side-b and up-b. I wouldn't mind this if up-b was changed, but if it stays the way it is then this is not a good idea.
- increase abilities when budding and blooming, but decrease scaling of such buffs
This is a really tricky one.
I'd rather just have consistent damage output and knockback for all stages. It's less significant in this build, but losing a stock and subsequently your Pikmin removes any momentum you could've possibly had from building up your flower Pikmin and keeping them alive, and I don't think that crazy momentum is really fair to anyone. I love the idea of increased Pikmin health based on increased stage, but again that could encourage mindless Pikmin Throw, so I'm really not sure. It's never going to happen, but my ideal Olimar wouldn't get any buffs from Pikmin flowering. Strength would be even across the stages (except for whites because flower effect and using them specifically for racking up damage), maybe sound and visual effects could change when flowered, but being borderline broken with four flowered Pikmin and borderline worst-character-in-game with for leaf Pikmin doesn't sound like good design to me (even though this is absolutely exaggeration).
- when you hold side b, olimar holds pikmin in front of him, and doesn't throw until released, to allow fake outs
you could always just fake out the other person by doing nothing and then throwing instead of being fully committed to a throw due to charge time
- allow pikmin throw to be angled, in exchange for clingtime / knockback for rybw / purple pikmin, respectively
He doesn't need this.
- allow pikmin to intercept and carry items to olimar (diddy's bananas, peach's turnips)
Braindead Pikmin Throw encouraged. Plus, wavelanding into bananas isn't hard.
- aerial pickmin pluck should work as it does in v3.0
There's no difference between versions.
- pikmin chain should be removed
NOW WE'RE TALKING. This move is the source of like 95% of Olimar's problems (the remaining 5% being in his grab). Within the context of Pikmin throw, tethers altogether, and the entirety of the PM environment, this garbage move doesn't belong in this game and I believe this with every fiber of my being. It's design is garbage (the hitbox on it in 3.0 was dumb, glad it got removed) and he needs something else.
- new third jump involves all of the pikmin that are currently in olimar line bunching up, struggling for a sec, and ultimately tossing olimar in a vertical direction with a trajectory of your choice. the more pikmin in your line, the farther your Pikmin toss you. does extreme knockback where pikmin bunch up and toss you, does not have a hitbox after oli is thrown away. puts oli into freelfall. knockback depends on pikmin types (if all whites, minimum knockback, if all purps max). pikmin that toss you die / fall to their death
...Something that isn't reliant on his Pikmin.
Were his up-b completely separated and unaffected by Pikmin type, count, whatever, then Pikmin Throw could be reworked and the design of Pikmin health and damage and stage growth could be well-designed. Until then, those moves together will always make a potentially broken/jank/buzzword character. However, this idea is way better than what we have now (no offense, but it's not hard to be better than what we have now).
I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again. He's a spaceman. Give him rocket boots or something. Tethers are dumb, relying on Pikmin for your recovery coupled with a potentially overpowered camping tool is dumb, separate the two. And no, do not ****ing give him his Sm4sh up-b I swear to god
Also this just sounds like a janky G&W up-b.
- stats the match with 3 pikmin
Fine as it is, doesn't need to change.
- respawns with none (that's right, you actually have to think about whether to use your invincibility on p pluck or dtilt now!)
I will ****ing fight you in real life over how bad of an idea this is. There is
literally never a situation where on invincibility from respawn you would choose to use ANY MOVE that solo Olimar has because they don't follow up into anything or guarantee a kill. You could argue for positional advantage, but b
y being invincible you by default have the advantage for a few seconds and you would have to waste it plucking Pikmin. Getting ANY number of Pikmin on respawn was one of the biggest buffs Olimar could've gotten in 3.5, and it's not even making him significantly better than anyone, it's bringing him up to the exact same level as every character in the game (which would be the point of giving him grab armor in the first place). Absolutely not.
- decrease wavedash distance
why
- add cute pikmin sound effects
...Aight.
tl;dr:
A lot of that is too much tbh. One of these days I'll give you guys my ideal changes in list form.
also what the **** don't you dare touch my grab range
