Olimar Stage Discussion Thread (Rainbow Cruise)

[Dyyne]

I like how people saying that jumps are guaranteed to be slower when jumping out of the water. That just means you are recovering wrong..
For Olimar this may be more of a problem since we don't have a very good way to get back on stage that isn't jump but.
When you are moving in the water, more than likely you are jumping the opposite way the current is going. SO basically you are most likely jumping to the right out of the water.
The physics of the game takes this into consideration and applies it like you ar ejumping out of the water, slower, and you get less height.

BUT if you jump right first, following the current, you get a boosted first jump and then you are free to use your second jump to go either right or left.

Hmm, that's really interesting, I did not know that.

And guys, this thread is for analyzing the stages, not comparing. That may become an aspect eventually, but for now, it's not. When this thread was made, dabuz's cp thread still had some traffic, but it has died though. I'm planning on analyzing each stage, then starting up the cp list again. I'll try to pick up the pace a bit

 

[Excellence]

reds go through rob's smashes? didnt know rob's dsmash had fire attributes. And what're you going to do, dair his usmash? lol

trying to battle rob in the air is a mistake unless you're directly below him and in position to uair. And in this case, ANY pikmin would go through his dair. yes, red fair can go through rob's nair. But as far as i know, that's the only situation where reds would be good against rob, if even this, other than for damage rack up, or if he's for some reason trying to get pikmin off of him while in the air with nair. I will say that reds are better against rob than blues though. That much is true.

the only thing i said about a 'cool trick that surprises people' was the pikmin chaining while running off the stage. Because that's all it is. A trick. The rest of what I said WASNT, and was instead addressing the blast zones and the water problem. Which yes, IS a problem. But not a problem impossible to get around. The only way the opponent has a 100% at gimping you off the right side is if he knocks you off the stage, grab a bunny hood so he can get there before the water carries you there, and grab all three ledges at once.

You sound stupid when you try to press words into my mouth. I said you use Red Pikmin against ROB's NAir, but if you don't mind losing then by all means go ahead and try using it against his smashes and any other aerial he has. I only said use Reds against ROB's NAir, I didn't even name when you were below ROB except in regards to Up Aerial and using Yellow Pikmin to keep him there with its static-affect. Red Pikmin are very good, any opportunity you get to KO a good ROB should be taken, any damage you are able to give should be given, and any aerials you can punish should be punished. If you can hit a ledgecamping ROB with FAir, then you've made a great success. Everyone knows ROB's danger zone is below him, and everyone takes advantage of it.

If you state a trick then you already proved my point because that's all I was saying. People who hear about a trick try to immitate it and use it, period.

If your opponent doesn't gimp you then they're bad. It's not like Olimar instantaneously plunges into the water then reappears below a ledge, it just doesn't happen that way. While you're being carried down the stream, mobiles characters who should be the only ones counterpicking you hear WILL follow your movement and edgehog you.

It's really not hard to survive getting knocked into the water if you're on the right side.

Also, I actually counterpicked this stage against Arkive's Link in tournament once (at least 2nd or 3rd best Link in the country). I'm ******** at counterpicking! I think that my reasoning was that if I got him in the water he wouldn't be able to recover. Problem was, I never got him in the water. That+HIGH ceiling=hard to kill a Link player with amazing DI. I ended up winning, but I had to camp my *** off and get him above 200% every time. Have I learned my lesson about counterpicking ******** stages? Nope, I still go to dumb places and lose because of it!

It's hard to survive being knocked into the water no matterr where you are. Regardless of the status of the person you played, you shouldn't of counterpicked this stage unless its dittos and you know this place inside and out one hundred times over. And isn't the Link vs Olimar match-up about 80 - 20 in Olimar's favor? Regardless of where you go, you should be able to win unless your drastically outmatched in skill, in which case picking this stage will probably make it worse given Link's ZAir and usage of projectiles to manipulate your position on the stage.

Congratulations on not learning from your mistakes.

I like how people saying that jumps are guaranteed to be slower when jumping out of the water. That just means you are recovering wrong..
For Olimar this may be more of a problem since we don't have a very good way to get back on stage that isn't jump but.
When you are moving in the water, more than likely you are jumping the opposite way the current is going. SO basically you are most likely jumping to the right out of the water.
The physics of the game takes this into consideration and applies it like you ar ejumping out of the water, slower, and you get less height.

BUT if you jump right first, following the current, you get a boosted first jump and then you are free to use your second jump to go either right or left.

Wow, I didn't even realize that I should have been jumping from the ledge. It was sort of instrinctive to jump away for me, which is probably why I never noticed the difference of when I jumped to the right. It's nice to know so I'll never make that mistake again.

 

[Dotcom]

Well i'm generally uncomfortable on Japes because it's not something that you are going to counterpick against someone else. Generally counterpicks are going to make you more uncomfortable than you would like, but this is a little different. Mostly because the stage is broken down into a retartedly high ceiling and rediculously small walls.
It can lead to you getting gimped easy if you don't know your way but once you figure things out water can help you, save for killing your pikmin. (Is it more or do Fatties survive longer in water than others?)

It does have some saving factors though. Blue: Back and forward throw, along with Purple forward throw kill a litle bit earlier than usual beecause of the walls. Back throw when your feet or on the edge of the center plat form, can kill alot of people around 10 - 15% earlier than it usually would have. This gets even crazier if you can manage to get a grab and a throwm an one of the side platforms.
You can use Up -smash more liberally since it won't kill on this stage. Save your D Smash though so you still have something reliable to go to.

The worst aspects of this stage are your:
Camping options: you can't do it all too effectively because of space and the ease some characters can get to you.

Spacing: This for me is the worst part about this stage since there is so little space to use, so you can seperate yourself from your enemy.

Death: You DIE EARLY. This sucks so bad because most kills on Olimar are either gimps, or kills off the side. Whenever you mess up spacing or slip up doing something else there's something about the enemy that can punish you and most likely kill you off of the side.

Not ban worth at all because it has its redeeming factors, but this is not something you should be counterpicking on anyone.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

If you state a trick then you already proved my point because that's all I was saying.

No, I think all you were saying was:

You need to say that to avoid this you can do this, not "I like to go here and do this because its a cool trick that surprises people."

This point? You proved this point?
First of all, I said that I like japes BUT that it's a bad stage for olimar. People reading it would merely see it and think. "Oh, maybe I shouldnt got there, because it's bad for my character. Hilt just likes stupid stages." I never said I counterpick it on anyone, or that I dont ban it. I said I 'like' the stage. I do, but olimar doesnt.

The trick is something THAT YOU CAN DO. It's not really good. It doesnt really change matchups or make it a better stage. But it's something that, as far as I know, can only be done in this stage. Was there a problem with me pointing this out? Does it mislead anyone? Of course not. I dont even think the trick is that good to be honest. I was just pointing something out. That I thought should possibly be included.

This was taken from the first post in the thread, in the Pokemon Stadium section

Oli's dtilt will stage spike opponents who are hit by it while hanging on the edge, although this opportunity is very rare.

This, sir, is a TRICK. It "is very rare" to find a opportunity for it, and I assume would be difficult to pull off. But it's something that can be done on this stage. It doesnt make stadium any better of an olimar stage than it already is, neither does it make it worse. It's a trick. The same can be said for what I pointed out about japes, and chaining while running off the center platform.

I said you use Red Pikmin against ROB's NAir, but if you don't mind losing then by all means go ahead and try using it against his smashes and any other aerial he has. I only said use Reds against ROB's NAir

No, you definitely said:

Red Pikmin can go through ROB's smashes while none of the others can.

 

[Cook]

It's hard to survive being knocked into the water no matterr where you are. Regardless of the status of the person you played, you shouldn't of counterpicked this stage unless its dittos and you know this place inside and out one hundred times over. And isn't the Link vs Olimar match-up about 80 - 20 in Olimar's favor? Regardless of where you go, you should be able to win unless your drastically outmatched in skill, in which case picking this stage will probably make it worse given Link's ZAir and usage of projectiles to manipulate your position on the stage.

Congratulations on not learning from your mistakes.

The people I play with aren't bad, but you've got options. If I'm on the right side and hit in the water I'm usually gonna jump out between the left platform and center platform. From there there are two edges to grab, or you can use the boost from up-b to land on the center platform or left platform. OR, you can even wait a bit to jump out of the water and jump on the left platform from the left side, or grab the left edge of the left platform. Your opponent can cover all this territory, especially since you can still air dodge and whistle. It's PRETTY rare for me to not make it back if I fell in on the right side, and it's not because the people I'm playing with suck, it's because I've got options. And I'm just REALLY good.

Um, Arkive IS a lot better than me. That's why I said he is like the second or third best in the country (or was, until he quit ) It's def not 80-20, though, I'd say like 70-30. Link's zair can be shieldgrabbed by Olimar and Olimar outcamps him, so it wasn't a bad pick for those reasons, but it was definitely a bad pick. I'm really good at picking ******** counterpicks. But I think I've finally learned to stop picking Pictochat, at least!

 

[Fino]

Amphar0s taught me that holding right and up significantly decreases the time spent in water. You can fall between the left and center platform and still have a notable chance to recover.


~Fino

 

[Fino]

Not to distract from booming stage discussion, and I know this stage has already been discussed... but making a new thread would be silly.

Is it just me, or is lylat over olimar's BEST stage? Better than mansion, better than RC Corneria. The only down side is the ceiling a a smidgen larger than average.

I don't see many characters having an advantage over olimar here, and even if they do... we have the largest chance of getting the proper pikmin to fight them.

I won't go on about the stage because I'm sure we've already covered stuff about it (though I haven't come in here until the japes discussion), but what do you guys think?


~Fino

EDIT: double post... but only because the thread is dead and this is completely different material

 

[asob4]

i agree
safer place to get yellows and purps tooo lol

 

[Dyyne]

Yeah, dabuz proposed that awhile ago as well, and I mentioned its goodness in its summary. Personally, I play really ****ty on it, so I won't contribute to that argument do to bias. There's no real reason why I do bad on it lol, I just play like ****.

 

[Excellence]

Not to distract from booming stage discussion, and I know this stage has already been discussed... but making a new thread would be silly.

Is it just me, or is lylat over olimar's BEST stage? Better than mansion, better than RC Corneria. The only down side is the ceiling a a smidgen larger than average.

I don't see many characters having an advantage over olimar here, and even if they do... we have the largest chance of getting the proper pikmin to fight them.

I won't go on about the stage because I'm sure we've already covered stuff about it (though I haven't come in here until the japes discussion), but what do you guys think?


~Fino

EDIT: double post... but only because the thread is dead and this is completely different material

I agree. This is one of Olimar's best stages. The platforms are obvious for camping and even though the ceiling is slightly higher, they set up for easier Up Smash kills. The platforms help you combo a lot better, they help you avoid tough aerialists like Wario, Peach, and Meta Knight's glide attack. The tilting on the stage makes this a great stage to play Peach or Wario because the tilting stage ruins their autocancels. The stage tilts also make it so recoveries are a lot easier to screw up, while Olimar's which sweetspots the ledge won't mess up at all. The stage is thing meaning you can Up Air through the stage for a surprise attack once per game. The tilt also allows DSmash semi-spikes because of its horizontal trajectory. Theres probably a lot stuff that I'm missing, but this stage is made to serve Olimar's purposes.

 

[Fino]

Just checkin.... so back to japes then?

^^;


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

I don't mind Japes. Except against Falco.
Whenever I get CPed there I just try to camp/plank the right side so if I get caught in the water, it's no big deal. Upair through the platform->upb is great.

Killing can be more difficult than usual unless you abuse dsmash. It's AWESOME here.

Tether shenanigans from the bottom center to the platforms are fun too.

 

[Dabuz]

yeah, but some characters are really hard to fight on lylat, most specifically marth, sonic, are the main two imo that you shouldn't fight on this stage but if you use fsmash alot then this stage can screw you over too much to help anyways

 

[Fino]

Can we move to Green Greens?


~Fino

 

[Cook]

I love Green Greens. Low ceilings means early kills, as do short sides. Short sides also mean you won't be getting gimped as much. I just camp the middle section. Knocking your opponent into the blocks on either side of you often equals a free up-smash or d-smash. Throw pikmin at the blocks to create pikmin bombs that stay there until your opponent touches them, then it's an insta-latch. Blow the bombs up from a safe distance with f-smash or purple toss. When on either of the outside ledges you CAN drop under the platform and double jump>up-b to grab the inside ledge, but if there is a block in the way it will block your up-b, and lots of times if there isn't a block there already one will drop down on your way to the ledge. It's too risky.

 

[Dyyne]

Green Greens is not the next stage rofl, we're going in order, and cps take priority over stages that are often banned like green greens.. I'm doing the summary for japes at the moment. Pictochat is next, I'll have Japes's summary up momentarily.

 

[asob4]

i love pictochat
so many good things about it

 

[Gardevior]

Isn't Pictochat banned?

Hm. I've never really played on it before, but at least now I know I can.

 

[Dyyne]

i love pictochat
so many good things about it

Well, that summarizes pictochat pretty much. Next stage then?

Isn't Pictochat banned?

Nope. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230481

Japes summary up.

 

[asob4]

glad i could help :D

sorry been lazy and totally out of the scene so i can't help very much D:
you can uthrow into the pirannha plant, missles like everything

 

[Fino]

Pictochat is... okay for olimar. There's not much reason you should CP someone there... but if you're CP'd there, there's not a whole lot you have to worry about.

Disadvantage here is that there is a high ceiling, making usmash more of a juggling tool rather than a ko tool.

horizontal killers like dsmash, fair, fsmash, ect will be your primary killers.

Stage hazards your into your advantage a lot just because you have a stupid long grab and you can throw people into them.

The dip at the edge helps your upB hop

Moar white pikmin?

I'm ****ing tired.... so this is probably bad.... just threw in a couple things to fuel discussion I guess


~fino

 

[asob4]

it has small walls and is very low, making gimping rare. longer stocks = instant favorable cp
plus camp camp camp camp with more whiteys to throw around. amazing vs ddd if you play a teba status ddd lmao

 

[Excellence]

We came to the conclusion that stages affect the probability of plucking certain colors? I could have swore someone did a test and found that to be false.

 

[Cook]

We came to the conclusion that stages affect the probability of plucking certain colors? I could have swore someone did a test and found that to be false.

...is this a joke post? Quit trolling.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

We came to the conclusion that stages affect the probability of plucking certain colors? I could have swore someone did a test and found that to be false.

I... dont know what to say to this. If by "came to the conclusion" you mean spent several, several hours plucking hundreds pikmin from each stage, then yes.

Seriously, the thread is STICKED! @_@


As for picto's increase in white pikmin... What main matchups would this be beneficial? It decreases purple, and I'd imagine that that would be nothing but a bad thing. ( <3 purples )

 

[Fino]

I... dont know what to say to this. If by "came to the conclusion" you mean spent several, several hours plucking hundreds pikmin from each stage, then yes.

Seriously, the thread is STICKED! @_@


As for picto's increase in white pikmin... What main matchups would this be beneficial? It decreases purple, and I'd imagine that that would be nothing but a bad thing. ( <3 purples )

Since there's a higher than average ceiling.... are purples necessary? beat the **** outta them with your camp and then go for a quick and sweet dsmash


~Fino

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Since there's a higher than average ceiling.... are purples necessary? beat the **** outta them with your camp and then go for a quick and sweet dsmash


~Fino

eh, i like purples more for the fact that they're a solid projectile, than their over powered usmash. Although the extra knockback is nice too ;D

 

[Fino]

eh, i like purples more for the fact that they're a solid projectile, than their over powered usmash. Although the extra knockback is nice too ;D

I told you I was tired XD wasn't even thinking about purple tosses @.@
stupid, stupid fino ;-;


~Fino

 

[asob4]

well the purples aren't needed if we rack ridiculous damage from the extra whites :/
plus you don't need to purple toss if there's always tons of stuff popping up to help you run away.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

well the purples aren't needed if we rack ridiculous damage from the extra whites :/
plus you don't need to purple toss if there's always tons of stuff popping up to help you run away.

haha true
I'll probably cp picto this saturday whenever possible, and playing it in friendlies to see how it works out for me.

Are there any matchups the stage would work well against specifically? Or any characters the white boost would help against? I'm thinking rob..

 

[Fino]

haha true
I'll probably cp picto this saturday whenever possible, and playing it in friendlies to see how it works out for me.

Are there any matchups the stage would work well against specifically? Or any characters the white boost would help against? I'm thinking rob..

idk.... I would assume characters like G&W would be bad here. Aerial ***** + multiple floating stage hazards would be bad.

Also, I guess the piranha plant glitch is worth mentioning even though we all know about it. It can be done with just about and hazard low enough for the pikmin to hit.


~Fino

 

[Dyyne]

well the purples aren't needed if we rack ridiculous damage from the extra whites :/
plus you don't need to purple toss if there's always tons of stuff popping up to help you run away.

Agreed, not to mention that white pikmin die and get replaced fast enough that you'll still probably pick up some purples along the way.

 

[Cook]

I used to cp this stage a lot, but I would always lose on it. I think there are better stages. This one can be REALLY good if you get the right transformations (plant, roller coaster, maybe fire and missles) but otherwise it can hurt you. I've been tilt locked too many times, but I guess that's my fault for not avoiding it better.

 

[asob4]

that's cause you fail :D jkjk
i got DEHF to one stock on this stage after not playing for 2 weeks and the previous game he 3-stocked me
yeah, it's that good.

 

[Dyyne]

Pictochat done, time for pirate ship. I don't play here much, so I won't be able to give too many details from experience.

 

[Gardevior]

This is common sense, but it bears mentioning: DON'T get in the water!

 

[DtJ Hilt]

This is common sense, but it bears mentioning: DON'T get in the water!

no no no

I hate when people say this. Too many people think pirate ship is bad because there's water that'll kill your pikmin.

Scenario. You're on Battlefield. Pikachu knocks you off the stage with an fsmash at around 90%. You DI it wrong and travel completely horizontal. As you're coming back to the stage Pikachu simply grabs the ledge. You lose a stock due to olimar's bad recovery.

Scenario. You're on Pirate Ship. Pikachu knocks you off the stage with an fsmash at around 90%. You DI it wrong and travel completely horizontal. As you're coming back to the stage Pikachu simply grabs the ledge. You keep your stock because there's water to SAVE YOU.

It takes 9 frames to pull a pikmin. About a seventh of a second. After that it takes one frame for a Shield to come out. If you fall into the water, getting back on the stage (air dodging/whistling if you have to) is not that difficult. Pulling more pikmin is not that difficult. Recovering with olimar, when your opponent knows how to gimp his recovery well, is. I say that Pirate Ship, if only slightly, is a slightly above average stage for olimar for this reason alone.

However I do not have enough experience on the stage for me to be comfortable giving my opinion on anything else.

 

[Stray Element]

Hilt is right about the water. It has saved me on PS so many times. On the other hand you have to be careful of characters with good spikes while in the water.

Maybe its just me, but I hate playing this stage on Olimar mainly because of all the environmental hazards. The main 2 problem points being the cannonballs and the tornado that picks up the ship. The tornado part is just annoying because of the floating, but the cannonballs really screw me up sometimes. Often when they start firing, they either come strait for me, which means I need to spend more time avoiding them than fighting, or they miss me, but kill pikmin that I was using for a throw or attack. I think all this is more personal preference, but if you tend to have "bad luck" with things like the cannonballs then you may want to pick a different stage.

Aside from the hazards however, the stage IMO is fairly good for Olimar because there is a high platform where U-smash can kill early, and when the boat hits the rocks, the bow of the ship that is up in the air provides a good place for another early U-smash kill. If an opponent is on the rocks below the ship and are trying to get up to the bow where you are, its a great idea to back up slightly, let them come to you, and U-smash which can sometimes hit a little bit through the tip.

 

[Dyyne]

The front of the ship is the bow, back is the stern.

 

[Dyyne]

Ok, more discussion plox. Alls that has really been talked about is water (which was concluded that you shouldn't voluntarily jump in, but it is by no means bad if you end up in there while recovering) and stage hazards.

Aside from the hazards however, the stage IMO is fairly good for Olimar because there is a high platform where U-smash can kill early, and when the boat hits the rocks, the bow of the ship that is up in the air provides a good place for another early U-smash kill. If an opponent is on the rocks below the ship and are trying to get up to the bow where you are, its a great idea to back up slightly, let them come to you, and U-smash which can sometimes hit a little bit through the tip.

The thing with those high platforms is that it is EXTREMELY rare that you'll actually be able to land an usmash when they are there. A smart player would never voluntarily chill at the top of the mast. There is a fair possibility of landing it at the bow of the ship when it points up, so good catch there.