Olimar Stage Discussion Thread (Rainbow Cruise)

[Rocann]

pokemon stadium 1 is amazing
original: big flat stage = great for olimar, the two platforms don't hurt at all

house/tree: I love standing under the roof and being safe, and also hiding behind the tree and being safe lol

big rock: I love standing to the left of the rock and uair makes it safe

windmill: only "meh" part I think, under windmill bit has a bit of the mansion factor, but it limits spacing options with half the stage being a giant windmill.

overall: low ceiling and close sides are great for olimar because they make it so his recovery doesn't play as much of a factor, usmash kills a lil early always good

strategy just involves waiting for the stage to switch back to original then playing your usual game, while it is any other part, just abuse the parts that keep you safe (some people won't even realize they basically have no way to even hit you)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

The point of the thread wasn't about counterpicking specifically, but just rather how each stage blends with oli. I don't include character matchups because dabuz's thread was sposed to cover CPs. Despite my efforts, it repeatedly died, so I gave up on that...I'll make a new cp thread though I guess, but I know that it should be separate from the actual stage analysis. As for terrain, I'll try to mention some of the more significant changes.

As for my not updating, that is currently due to levels like this that change that intimidate me when writing summaries, and the large lack of help in me doing so. Alls that has been posted is stuff about the ledge, a bit of terrain info, and most of the posts are just about how much people like the stage...I'll try to bust out the summary though...

eh, the only reason i mentioned terrain is because it can be helpful in certain matchups >.>

I'd have to say that it'd be better to have the two threads combined... it'd be a lot more organized and easier to find.

Plus that way you could get it sticked ;D

 

[Dyyne]

Hmmm. The thing with counterpicks is that aside from agreed upon good counterpicks, levels like halberd are personal preference. Do you mean to analyze each matchup on each stage lol? Because that would be pretty extreme rofl, and if it were a weekly analysis, it would take years lul. Or do you mean giving a description of cps/bans for each character? That's doable. I spose I could do that.

If I do that, I'm thinking about possibly doing two things at a time: 1. analyze a stage and 2. analyze a character. How would we feel with that? Share what you would prefer, hilt.


Btw, I did the summary for PS1...total *****, just like I thought it would be.

 

[asob4]

brinstar is... interesting
small walls are good for dsmash/fsmash/bthrow kills as well as evening out the recovery thing.
high ceiling is good and bad. helps us survive to ridiculous percents with good DI, but takes away early usmash KO's, which i'm OK with.
the ground is a bit annoying as it is uneven, but it isn't too hard to work around, this is more of an aerial stage imo.
lava helps us survive if we go under!!! so helpful

i've actually beaten a high level snake here in tourney :D (jonT)
i've also beaten the top ranked ROB on this stage (shadowrob)
upB kills very well on this stage with the small walls

 

[Dyyne]

Agreed, Brinstar is very interesting (weird)

I really hate it for whatever reasons. I just don't like it...I think part of it is the fact that in brawl, when you hit something, it slows down the move, so someone may be able to dodge a move that he wasn't sposed to have time to dodge, or they'll get hit by a move they would've dodged. I just hate that so much, and there are so many things to hit on this stage :/

Also, the things that hold the stage together, that can **** up the pikmin and make them not return properly due to the weird terrain of it.

 

[asob4]

eh just whistle'em back

also, the prolonged hitboxes work in our favor too ;D
yellows are out forever it seems

 

[Dyyne]

Of course whistling gets them back, I'm just pointing out that you need to be aware that they won't return by themselves.

I wouldn't say prolonged hitboxes work in any character's favor more than another.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

The point of the thread wasn't about counterpicking specifically, but just rather how each stage blends with oli. I don't include character matchups because dabuz's thread was sposed to cover CPs. Despite my efforts, it repeatedly died, so I gave up on that...I'll make a new cp thread though I guess, but I know that it should be separate from the actual stage analysis. As for terrain, I'll try to mention some of the more significant changes.

As for my not updating, that is currently due to levels like this that change that intimidate me when writing summaries, and the large lack of help in me doing so. Alls that has been posted is stuff about the ledge, a bit of terrain info, and most of the posts are just about how much people like the stage...I'll try to bust out the summary though...

analyzing a stage and character wouldnt be a bad idea. If you do it that way, you'd probably be right in making two threads for it. That would be a lot to keep in one.

What I was originally thinking was a bit simpler. Just... whenever a stage comes up, we discuss certain matchups that are dramatically changed from the stage.

For instance: Brinstar. Brinstar is a really good stage for Luigi, DK, and somewhat kirby. And seeing as how it isnt that great of an olimar stage, I oftentimes ban it against Luigi.

^simple things like that. But if you'd rather have a seperate thread to discuss the stages based on the characters, that would possibly be better. But anything decided on in there should taken into consideration in here as well.

 

[Olimarman]

Brinstar is ****ing ********.

When I went to my first tourney a month ago from tomorrow, I got cped Brinstar by an Mk. The score was 1-1, and I got 3 stocked because I think I've played brinstar 3 times in my life. I really don't see how its good for Oli specifically, but maybe I just got really unlucky with the lava never being there when I needed it. It's rather hard to actually get back onto the stage especially when the bottom is split. Maybe it was just against Mk, but I really hate this stage after that.

 

[asob4]

eh, i played it back in melee, so i know how to play on it

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Brinstar is ****ing ********.

When I went to my first tourney a month ago from tomorrow, I got cped Brinstar by an Mk. The score was 1-1, and I got 3 stocked because I think I've played brinstar 3 times in my life. I really don't see how its good for Oli specifically, but maybe I just got really unlucky with the lava never being there when I needed it. It's rather hard to actually get back onto the stage especially when the bottom is split. Maybe it was just against Mk, but I really hate this stage after that.

It's a really aerial based stage due to how the platforms are setups, so that could have a lot to do with it. Olimar would get outdone by characters that excel in the air (MK, Kirby, Luigi). I would imagine it would be good for DDD against olimar too, but i dont know.

For this reason I dont think it's a very good olimar stage at all.

 

[asob4]

well it might just be me, but i've beaten snakes and ROB's there
i think MK and a few others there too

it's pretty good vs MK as it allows for EASY uair use which is great vs MK
uneven-ness allows you to more easily dodge their attacks

 

[DtJ Hilt]

yeah if you can take advantage with aerials (UAir) then that wouldnt be too bad.
I could see it working well against snake. Not sure about rob, but i've never fought one there.

 

[asob4]

it's kinda like norfair, but not as safe

 

[Dotcom]

I'd much rather fight a R.O.B. on Brinstar, than Norfair, because all the ones I play ledgecamp to extreme lengths. This being said I honestly think it could be one of Olimar's worst stages, depending on who you play.

Cons: It's hard to space things properly because of the smallness of the stage(distance wise, lower platform is smaller than Battlefield) making it hard to pivotgrab, and follow up grabs.

Hard to edge gaurd because of the esge's angle, and the fact that it's hanging above acid.

Characers who have high aerial priority, and are in the air alot, will beat you here in a general sense. Example GnW can eat you here, if you aern't very careful.

Break - away Ledges can often lead getting gimped, and mess up floow - ups more often than not

There are pros. but i'm layz.
point black I don't <3 brinstar.

 

[Rocann]

I'd much rather fight a R.O.B. on Brinstar, than Norfair, because all the ones I play ledgecamp to extreme lengths.

ROFL so true so true

 

[Dyyne]

I had to wipe the harddrive on my comp and reinstall windows, so I haven't been able to do much the past week or so, had to use friend's comps for posts. I'll get goin on this again. Anyway, keep chattin about brinstar in the mean time, unless everything is said.

 

[Excellence]

I'd have to disagree with this, especially when facing Meta Knight. There are a lot of slopes and downward buldges on this stage so grabs, FSmashes, and USmashes will all just stay where they are. The platforms might help us with our UAir, but they'll also help MK with his. Olimar cannot escape MK's UAir combo if he does it right, then all he'll do is Tornado you off the ceiling and win the match. I also think that because of the lava we're going to be forced to relocate and give up our ground which is something Olimar can't do really well when facing MK, Kirby, Luigi or anyone else who kicks his *** in the air.

This is a good stage for facing ROB, though. His annoying Gyro gets stuck on the slopes and unlike our Pikmin he can't keep using it, he'll have to go get it and potentially ipen himself up for some sort of attack.

 

[Dyyne]

Ok, I summarized brinstar, now it's the hotly debated frigate orhpeon...should be interesting.

 

[Rocann]

On the first side we have a meh stage. This side is flat, small, no usable platforms really, although standing under the left makes it difficult to get to you, and if they do knock you off over there, recovering isn't hard. Standing on the right side is bad and gets you killed; even camping when the platform is lowered doesn't last because it comes up eventually, and then it goes up again making it even more difficult to recover (not to mention the obvious problem over here.)

When it flips, you have a platform over the middle with slopes leading down beneath it, both sides tetherable, huge platforms that come out to save you and are way more reliable than, say, platform ghosts, just good stuff all around. This is probably my favorite place to be out of all levels.

Never CP this stage, but it's not bad enough to ban it. That's all that really matters for the discussion; now just be prepared to play on it.

 

[Excellence]

^ What he said is all true. Next stage? 0_o

 

[kirbywizard]

^ What he said is all true. Next stage? 0_o

I always arrive late to these discussions, I almost won a tourney match on FG, but while I was on the right side, the stage flipped to the form were there is no right edge to grab on to, on my last life too>_>. I managed to steal two stocks off a good game and watch on the left side of the stage though. This stage screws me over randomly. stage isnt to great for luigi on my opinion but it screws with oli more. But it does wonders for jigglypuff.

 

[Dyyne]

Ok, I did Frigate's summary. Andy, I copy pasted what you typed and added some stuff of my own as well. Jungle Japes now...

 

[MiniTroika]

Let's see... Aahhh Jungle Japes...

The high ceiling works for and works against Olimar. U-Smash kills are very unlikely for either player.
The elevated side platforms help Pikmin Toss Spamming/camping while the central platform is good for pivot grabs.

Honestly though, this is probably the worst stage olimar could wish to fight on. If you get gimped, you are pretty much dead meat. The water takes you to the left part of the stage extremely fast and kills your line. The chances of you having an entire line of blues is very unlikely causing you to lose a stock for one mistake.

Metaknight and Falco would really enjoy this as a counterpick against us. (Possibly G-Dub as well?)

 

[Excellence]

This is a terrible stage for Olimar. The retardedly high ceiling always works against Olimar because a large number of our KOs come from vertical killing moves (Up Smash and Purple UThrow). The water below is also tretcherous because once you fall in, that's it, you're ****ing dead and there isn't anything you can do about it.

The two side platforms are pretty bad for Olimar. On one hand, you can create a barrier around yourself to prevent opponents from approaching you while you hit them with Pikmin. It is also located close to the blast zone which means BThrow and FThrow have much greater kill potential than they normally would. However, because the ledge is so small Olimar cannot run on it and a ledge attack can lead to an easy gimp.

The center portion of the stage isn't that bad. It offers Olimar some protection from aerial attacks and allows him to pivot grab the rest of the aerials that come his way. FSmash reaches extremely far and with the limited space of the platform your opponent will hardly be able to get out of its range.

Aside from the stage being a poor choice to compliment Olimar, it does compliment many of his even and bad match-ups very, very well. Donkey Kong, for example, can Up B under the platforms to travel back and forth essentially keeping him safe from harm and allowing him to approach on the platforms. Characters like Wario, Meta Knight, and Kirby will choose this stage to easily gimp Olimar while increasing their longevity using the high ceiling.

All and all, I'd say this is one of Olimar's worst stages and should be banned against any character who knows how to gimp.

 

[KingKirb]

I hate Japes.

it's like it was freaking designed to make Olimar suck

 

[DtJ Hilt]

haha i love japes. Not saying olimar's good there, but I love the stage.

in fact i'll often times ban RC or Frigate instead of japes. I in no way think japes is a worse stage for olimar than frigate. Maybe against some characters, but not in general.

Blast Zones: Okay, the high ceiling is a problem. Getting an USmash/Uthrow is nearly impossible. But rather, I dont have to worry about diminishing them anymore, right? since they're not going kill anyways, why not use them more for damage. Save your vertical killing attacks/throws to finish. However, getting a horizontal kill is difficult as well. most of your kills are going to have to be done on the center platform, as there is not enough room on the other two for both oli and his opponent usually, as olimar's attacks have to be well spaced.

However, saying that this stage makes olimar's recovery worse is false. In fact it makes it much better. When you fall off of the ship in pirate ship, do you say "oh **** i just lost all of my pikmin"? Because I'm thinking "hey, good thing this wasnt battlefield!" The water saves you. There's three sections for you to fall into the water. If you fall from the right two (between the right and center platforms, and to the right of the right platform) you wont die. And as you're drifting down the river, you can choose which of the left two sections you want to recover to. Just watch out for the klaptrap. However after you recover, plucking pikmin will obviously be your main priority. But plucking two or three pikmin takes what, half a second? Falling between the left and center platforms makes you easily edge guarded. and falling from the far left side is pretty much instant death.

So pretty much, camp the right side. What I tend to do is spam latch from the right platform until my opponent chases me. I then grab one of the ledges of said platform drop, and do an UAir from underneath. If it's done right you wont need to late and can just regrab onto the ledge.

 

[Fino]

haha i hate japes.

*fixed for the tl:dr*
I did read it though ;D

~Fino

 

[Dabuz]

japes is interesting, characters who oli can get horizontal kill moves off reliably on won't be big problems on this stage but characters who oli needs to get vertical kills on become ridicuolous on this stage, personally its my second most disliked stage, the only reason to use it is abusing our spike and uping through the whole stage but klaptraps b**** me out on this stage all the time when i do that and the up going to sid platforms instead of an angle really can mess me up, its a bad oli stage in general with more against oli than for him

 

[DtJ Hilt]

one trick i like to do that i dont think has been mentioned yet, is when my opponent's standing on the right side and i'm on the center section is start to run off the side but start my pikmin chain right before i run off so that it doesnt tether to the stage. It'll come out right as olimar runs off so it can hit the opponent and olimar grabs the ledge right afterwards.

nothing more than a fun trick, but definitely unexpected for the opponent.

 

[asob4]

japes sucks :/
frigate>>>>>>japes

 

[MiniTroika]

I disagree. Japes brings no true advantage to Olimar. Frigate helps Olimar in some counterpicks because of the frequent yellows and purples. Sure, there's one ledge. But once it transforms, the problem is rid of.

On Japes, the most realistic situation once you enter the water is that your Pikmin will die off and as you try to recover , your opponent will just grab the ledge. Once you enter the water a second time, you're dead.

(IN RESPONSE TO HILT)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I disagree. Japes brings no true advantage to Olimar. Frigate helps Olimar in some counterpicks because of the frequent yellows and purples. Sure, there's one ledge. But once it transforms, the problem is rid of.

On Japes, the most realistic situation once you enter the water is that your Pikmin will die off and as you try to recover , your opponent will just grab the ledge. Once you enter the water a second time, you're dead.

(IN RESPONSE TO HILT)

if your opponent knocks you in to the far right side and then IMMEDIATELY dashes towards the left, they MIGHT make it in time to edge hog you. Even if they do, they would only make it to the first ledge. You have two more after that (although the first of the two would be extremely close to the one they're holding on to). Rarely though would your opponent be able to make it to the far left side of the stage faster than the water would carry you there (unless sonic for some reason CP'd you to japes lol). Getting on the stage is NOT that difficult. And yes, your pikmin die, and YES that's a problem. However pulling a pikmin takes 9 frames. A shield can come out RIGHT after that. Or you could lead into a pluck canceled smash. Or you could pluck a pikmin and after the 1/6 of a second you just spent, dash away. Obviously not as easy as I'm making it sound, but I'm just trying to say that falling into the water from the right side ISNT instant death. I mean... you shouldnt have been knocked off the stage anyways, right? And now that you have, at least you have a chance to survive. Okay, that was a ba way to put it lol....

As for frigate, frigate is only good for olimar against certain characters. Try facing a Rob at frigate. Sure, it's one of his better stages, but this is merely an example. the pikmin boost doesnt really help TOO much against rob. and the right side doesnt **** him over as well. And then there's characters like MK that the pluck percentage DOES help against, but he can take advantage of olimar's ledge situation better than most characters. The pikmin increase DOES help olimar, but it's not so drastic that I would think it to be better than japes.

 

[Excellence]

if your opponent knocks you in to the far right side and then IMMEDIATELY dashes towards the left, they MIGHT make it in time to edge hog you. Even if they do, they would only make it to the first ledge. You have two more after that (although the first of the two would be extremely close to the one they're holding on to). Rarely though would your opponent be able to make it to the far left side of the stage faster than the water would carry you there (unless sonic for some reason CP'd you to japes lol). Getting on the stage is NOT that difficult. And yes, your pikmin die, and YES that's a problem. However pulling a pikmin takes 9 frames. A shield can come out RIGHT after that. Or you could lead into a pluck canceled smash. Or you could pluck a pikmin and after the 1/6 of a second you just spent, dash away. Obviously not as easy as I'm making it sound, but I'm just trying to say that falling into the water from the right side ISNT instant death. I mean... you shouldnt have been knocked off the stage anyways, right? And now that you have, at least you have a chance to survive. Okay, that was a ba way to put it lol....

As for frigate, frigate is only good for olimar against certain characters. Try facing a Rob at frigate. Sure, it's one of his better stages, but this is merely an example. the pikmin boost doesnt really help TOO much against rob. and the right side doesnt **** him over as well. And then there's characters like MK that the pluck percentage DOES help against, but he can take advantage of olimar's ledge situation better than most characters. The pikmin increase DOES help olimar, but it's not so drastic that I would think it to be better than japes.

Japes is a bad stage for Olimar, period. Olimar's only weaknesses are his recovery which can be worked around by a good Olimar player, his lack of priority when an opponent can stay close, and his lack of armor frames on his grab which can be solved with pivot grabbing and spacing. Japes makes all of those weaknesses much worse.

For one, any character with a decent spike is going to have fun watching you drown after hitting you out of the air. There is little space to escape anyone on the sides of the stage meaning you'll have to take center if you want to survive long. The argument that once you fall in the water you're not immediately dead is null and void. Once Olimar falls in the water he IS dead. Ledgehog, crock, fast moving rapids combined with Olimar's slower jump means he's dead. Saying you can survive, pluck pikmin in 9 frames then shield is taking too long. Plucking Pikmin + Adding shield frames = free smash attack from anyone except maybe DK's FSmash.

Everyone knows Olimar has no priority save for Up Air and Up Tilt, but we've always managed to get around that with good spacing and flat out running away. Olimar cannot run on Jungle Japes, it just doesn't happen. That center platform gives you some aerial defense, but not against anyone with good horizontal movement like Marth or Wario. Olimar is going to have one hell of a time fighting to not get gimped. Then there's the fact that his tether won't sweetspot what you want it to and you'll die.

The lack of armor frames means that an opponent you can usually safely grab from a distance can escape with tilts. Meta Knight, Wario, and Falco can all hit you with their tilts while you're pulling them in. All of whom can also take right off the side for a gimp.

There is no way this stage is good for Olimar, at all, in any way. Any argument that you say can be used in his favor on this stage can be argued about another BETTER stage that poses little risk to him. I really think this is an uphill battle to argue in favor of Japes being decent but its nice that someone likes this deathtrap.

I just want to point out that yellow and purple pikmin (and red) are the best colors to fight ROB with. Yellow Pikmin have the largest hitbox allowing you to hit him from a distance and keep him in attacks when he's above you. Purple Pikmin can kill him off the top at 100%. Once the stage flips, it's really a GOOD stage for Olimar.

 

[Cook]

I usually don't have to grab the ledge when I get knocked into the water; up-b carries you onto the stage. If I stay on the right side the only way getting hit into the water ever kills me is if I get klaptrapped (**** klaptraps; **** them). Still, I hate this stage.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

^this
thank you asc

excellence, try to understand this. I'm NOT saying japes is a good stage for olimar. Or that it's a decent stage for olimar. It's one of his WORST stages, easily. what i'm saying is that if you fall into the water from the right side you ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY DEAD. Play the stage more. Get use to how it works. Isnt that what this thread is for, when it comes to oli's bad stages? Learn how to adapt to japes so that if you DO get CP'd there, you dont choke, constantly thinking about what's bad about it. Take advantage of the stage. Use it as best you can, EVEN THOUGH you have a disadvantage there. Learn tricks for japes. This way if you're play a character that you have to ban RC or frigate against, and he takes you to japes, you still have a chance at winning.

And yes, excellence, yellow/purple pikmin are amazing. Red however are not as good against rob as you would think. Keep in mind though that yellow/purple are good against almost EVERYONE, but moreso for some than others. Rob is the latter. yellow pikmin dont mess him up so much that's you should focus just on the color.

btw: plucking a pikmin and sheilding beats a smash

 

[Excellence]

^this
thank you asc

excellence, try to understand this. I'm NOT saying japes is a good stage for olimar. Or that it's a decent stage for olimar. It's one of his WORST stages, easily. what i'm saying is that if you fall into the water from the right side you ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY DEAD. Play the stage more. Get use to how it works. Isnt that what this thread is for, when it comes to oli's bad stages? Learn how to adapt to japes so that if you DO get CP'd there, you dont choke, constantly thinking about what's bad about it. Take advantage of the stage. Use it as best you can, EVEN THOUGH you have a disadvantage there. Learn tricks for japes. This way if you're play a character that you have to ban RC or frigate against, and he takes you to japes, you still have a chance at winning.

And yes, excellence, yellow/purple pikmin are amazing. Red however are not as good against rob as you would think. Keep in mind though that yellow/purple are good against almost EVERYONE, but moreso for some than others. Rob is the latter. yellow pikmin dont mess him up so much that's you should focus just on the color.

btw: plucking a pikmin and sheilding beats a smash

If you're not automatically dead your opponent isn't good enough. And don't think I don't understand your trying to point out things you can do on the stage, but if someone was to just come and read it they'd be getting killed because they'd think it wa something positive. You need to say that to avoid this you can do this, not "I like to go here and do this because its a cool trick that surprises people." I think, if you win on Japes, your opponent wasn't that good or it was dittos.

Red Pikmin can go through ROB's smashes while none of the others can. That means when ROB tries to use NAir (Which he will) you'll hit him unless you use your attack to slow. Red Pikmin on ROB is auto priority over ROB, so yes it is that good.

Purple > Yellow > Red - Organize your line to make use of that.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

reds go through rob's smashes? didnt know rob's dsmash had fire attributes. And what're you going to do, dair his usmash? lol

trying to battle rob in the air is a mistake unless you're directly below him and in position to uair. And in this case, ANY pikmin would go through his dair. yes, red fair can go through rob's nair. But as far as i know, that's the only situation where reds would be good against rob, if even this, other than for damage rack up, or if he's for some reason trying to get pikmin off of him while in the air with nair. I will say that reds are better against rob than blues though. That much is true.

the only thing i said about a 'cool trick that surprises people' was the pikmin chaining while running off the stage. Because that's all it is. A trick. The rest of what I said WASNT, and was instead addressing the blast zones and the water problem. Which yes, IS a problem. But not a problem impossible to get around. The only way the opponent has a 100% at gimping you off the right side is if he knocks you off the stage, grab a bunny hood so he can get there before the water carries you there, and grab all three ledges at once.

 

[Cook]

If you're not automatically dead your opponent isn't good enough. And don't think I don't understand your trying to point out things you can do on the stage, but if someone was to just come and read it they'd be getting killed because they'd think it wa something positive. You need to say that to avoid this you can do this, not "I like to go here and do this because its a cool trick that surprises people." I think, if you win on Japes, your opponent wasn't that good or it was dittos.

Red Pikmin can go through ROB's smashes while none of the others can. That means when ROB tries to use NAir (Which he will) you'll hit him unless you use your attack to slow. Red Pikmin on ROB is auto priority over ROB, so yes it is that good.

Purple > Yellow > Red - Organize your line to make use of that.

It's really not hard to survive getting knocked into the water if you're on the right side.

Also, I actually counterpicked this stage against Arkive's Link in tournament once (at least 2nd or 3rd best Link in the country). I'm ******** at counterpicking! I think that my reasoning was that if I got him in the water he wouldn't be able to recover. Problem was, I never got him in the water. That+HIGH ceiling=hard to kill a Link player with amazing DI. I ended up winning, but I had to camp my *** off and get him above 200% every time. Have I learned my lesson about counterpicking ******** stages? Nope, I still go to dumb places and lose because of it!

 

[Dotcom]

I like how people saying that jumps are guaranteed to be slower when jumping out of the water. That just means you are recovering wrong..
For Olimar this may be more of a problem since we don't have a very good way to get back on stage that isn't jump but.
When you are moving in the water, more than likely you are jumping the opposite way the current is going. SO basically you are most likely jumping to the right out of the water.
The physics of the game takes this into consideration and applies it like you ar ejumping out of the water, slower, and you get less height.

BUT if you jump right first, following the current, you get a boosted first jump and then you are free to use your second jump to go either right or left.