Olimar Matchup Discussion

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Better thing for the Q&A I would think, but... Try to punish olimar more so on the stage than offstage. If olimar is able to freely use the whistle and not use the UpB than you really have no reason to follow olimar offstage. It's when olimar is far enough away that he is forced to use the UpB that you really want to try to punish him offstage by edgehogging or hitting him as he tethers.

 

[theONEjanitor]

60/40 olimar

Dabuz mostly explained it, even if he exaggerated a bit.

pivot grabs **** almost everything possible that snake can do.
and pikmin > grenades.
he throws pikmin, either you can let the pikmin eat you...or get grabbed trying to knock them off.
and then you lose like 30 damage off one grab, and more if you're not careful

whistle beats any kind of edgeguard

its a pretty bad matchup for snake. worse than dedede imo.


i dont know how to win this matchup, i no longer play snake against olimars...but my idea is to try your best to outcamp your opponent...when I do that I sometimes do well.
but approaching seems like a bad idea, since olimar can **** every thing snake can approach with.
so I just try to run away the whole time and sneak in an early uptilt or something *shrugs*

 

[BIGM1994]

Usally when i play an olimar with snake i just up throw and chase till i grab and oli dat lands, also at a low percent you can f throw him and chase and grab him, it works. oli got nothing besides his nair dat helps him in the air. try to keep oli in the air...with snake.

 

[hunger!]

dabuz. you lost to fatal. that's my only input

 

[napZzz]

Better thing for the Q&A I would think, but... Try to punish olimar more so on the stage than offstage. If olimar is able to freely use the whistle and not use the UpB than you really have no reason to follow olimar offstage. It's when olimar is far enough away that he is forced to use the UpB that you really want to try to punish him offstage by edgehogging or hitting him as he tethers.

lol

dabuz. you lost to fatal. that's my only input

fatal is just 2gud tho.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

dabuz. you lost to fatal. that's my only input

Hunger won this thread.

 

[So Fatal]

Technically I winz it

 

[Stockfield]

I still hate fighting Olimar, he is just so irratating.

 

[zeuskees]

65-35 olimar, easily, olimar can just destroy snake at anything, snake has no ground approach because our pivot grabs+fsmash wreck all you ground approaches, he out camps snake easily, any air approaches can be stopped way to easily, we out range snake, olimar can just smash or shield grab everything you have at close range(except for grab) we can EASILY get 0-70% on you with a grab and good grab chasing, we out prioritize snake, our whistle armor can stop every kill move snake has snake can't edge guard us, heck, we can edge guard and gimp snake better then he can to us, honestly, idk how oli loses to snake, but thats just cause i have a lot of experience in this matchup, once olimar learns it he can beat snake way to easily, idk any way a snake can beat an olimar that knows how to utilize this stuff unless the snake knows how to shield pressure olimar to make approaches, which is still hard

Didn't u lose to ally?

 

[AvoiD]

Dabuz beat him, but on WiFi lulz.

He lost to So Fatal though, legit.

 

[Berserker.]

I don't at all a million of times understand how good is Olimar. He dosen't even have better camping than Snake. His pikmins are EASY to KILL!
50:50 even or for those who think it's Oli's favor 45:55

 

[etecoon]

I don't at all a million of times understand how good is Olimar. He dosen't even have better camping than Snake. His pikmins are EASY to KILL!
50:50 even or for those who think it's Oli's favor 45:55

olimar outcamps snake easily, and any attempt to shake off pikmin leaves snake wide open because almost all of his attacks are slow. then once snake is in the air, you really have no landing options that are going to have any real success, in theory he could grab juggle you to death(sounds ridiculous but then again some snake's say you're going to be dthrowing him to death so why not...with some help from human error it won't happen in reality though).

 

[Berserker.]

Oh now I get it (Second time corrected by you lulz I'm such a noob)

 

[Berserker.]

Well at least Olimar is not broken to Snake (or maybe yes) but no. The first time I played brawl, i misjudged him as easy and weak because he looks ugly I mean look at him

I feel like PUNCHING his face but in the end, I found out that he is a great fighter and lastly he's a boy

 

[~ Gheb ~]

olimar outcamps snake easily, and any attempt to shake off pikmin leaves snake wide open because almost all of his attacks are slow. then once snake is in the air, you really have no landing options that are going to have any real success, in theory he could grab juggle you to death(sounds ridiculous but then again some snake's say you're going to be dthrowing him to death so why not...with some help from human error it won't happen in reality though).

This is all wrong.

Olimar doesn't outcamp Snake. Ha can force him to approach, yes but that =/= outcamping.
Outcamping means literally outcamping him aka giving the opponent no offensive options. This isn't the case AT ALL in this match-up.

If you want to see what outcamping means then you should play Falco vs Ike or King D3 vs Mario. Snake has enough options to approach Olimar - it's just not easy to do but once Snake is inside Olimar is ****ed. Not only can he dthrow **** him but he can also break Olimar's grab with his ftilt (no "grab armor") and **** him offstage (Grenade close to the ledge + Ledgehog = 0 options for Olimar). Olimar lacks the mobility or a quick gtfo move to keep Snale away once he's inside. Snake deals more damage and kills way better too so Snake has massive advantages all over the place.

And I'm not even talking about Snake's CP options. It's 5/5 or slightly in Snake's favour.

 

[DanGR]

I always thought the word "outcamp" meant "the one forcing an approach." In that sense, yes Olimar outcamps Snake, but it doesn't really matter when you think about it.

Firstly, if Olimar is blown up by any explosion past about 20%, Snake will have time to run in and either dash attack him (which can be whistled through, albeit) or get a grab in. We all know what happens when you grab an Olimar and either dthrow him, throw him offstage, or put him in the air. You might as well have an infinite, though you won't exactly kill him every time, per se.

Secondly, Snake can approach him decently well anyways. He can toss a grenade in and mixup between dash attacks, running spotdodges->attack, and fake approaches to get Olimar to pivotgrab all the way to the edge of the stage. Then you just toss grenades at him until he moves. If at any time you land a grab or dash attack in, or get him offstage or in the air, you should be able to rack massive damage.

Thirdly, it doesn't matter if he outcamps you if his projectiles won't kill you at high percents. Yours will. Just sit back and camp (or play really defensively) and force him to approach when you're within kill range.

For these reasons and what Gheb among various others have posted, I feel that Snake has an edge in the matchup. There's also the fact that the top Olimars are losing to the top Snakes. And, imo, I feel like a lot of the top Snake players don't know the matchup really well yet.

 

[etecoon]

This is all wrong.

Olimar doesn't outcamp Snake. Ha can force him to approach, yes but that =/= outcamping.
Outcamping means literally outcamping him aka giving the opponent no offensive options. This isn't the case AT ALL in this match-up.

Right, Olimar doesn't outcamp Snake, he just beats him at range and forces him to approach(always a great idea in barwl!), oh wow I was so wrong to word that that way, Snake doesn't get outcamped he just can't can't camp and can't approach, is there a word for that...I'm thinking of it but I can't recall...OH RIGHT, IT'S CALLED GETTING OUTCAMPED.

Yes Olimar has little to no options in the air or off stage, same as Snake, Olimar has an enormous advantage in the neutral phase in this matchup though, neither character can get out of trouble with each other very well, but Olimar has an easier time avoiding that in the first place. And Snake's ftilt only beats out certain pikmin colors on the grab btw, even so Olimar outranges that and can simply wait and punish, Snake doesn't really have effective ways to deal with Olimar's spacing and camping, although to be fair you are right, Snake just has to get lucky a few times since Olimar also has bad options when you do finally get him in a bad position.

 

[Nope]

dabuz. you lost to fatal. that's my only input

Hunger won this thread.

Technically I winz it

I would settle for the tie haha

 

[Berserker.]

So your all saying it's a 50:50 even or 45:55 olimar beacause I want it to be a tie because well it's a stupid reason it's cause olimar looks ulgy.

 

[xX Jolly]

Double jump neutral air also gets pikmin off really well.

 

[Berserker.]

Nair has a lot of landing lag so Snake can be easily be punished so best if you shield or dodge pikmins and try killing Olimar even with out approaching him by camping against but it seems risky because Olimar can camp to and best if you get edgehog KOs since Olimar has a tether recovery but you could be or not be damage but it's worth making Olimar helpless and makes him fall to his death but you may get meteor smashed by the stage itself.

 

[mikeray4]

dabuz. you lost to fatal. that's my only input

dont forget all he does is play Icy......he knows the match up right back

 

[Tom_Mercenaries]

60-40 olimar in real life

65-35 olimar in wifi

xd

 

[Berserker.]

65:35 is too much. If he had a match up like that, he wouldn't end up as the 2nd place in tier but he'll be placed in A tier if he has a match up like that. I'm leaning to 45:55 or better 50:50 neh 45:55 but I like 50:50

 

[mikeray4]

^^^^
65:35 or 60:40 for 1 match up would not make snake move down for 2 reasons
1. snake still places very well in tournaments of all sizes
2. Lots of MK mains will usally discourage people from maining olimar(for the most part)

 

[Infern Angelis]

60-40 Olimar

Just need to spams nades till they hit him or he jumps, then just go if go for titls and grabs, rinse and repeat

 

[IcyLight]

hope this helps, my personal summary on the matchup for our matchup thread, just to give you some ideas on what i personally watch out for in the matchup, and things we are able to do that you may not be aware of. a good read, regardless





1) recovery -- i suggest you learn all the possible recovery techniques, especially for this matchup, if snake gets you off it's extremely difficult to get back on if they are patient and know the matchup.

2) don't rush in or be too offensive, if they pull out a nade the nade will stop anything you can do, and that damage against you is far worse than it is against him. so, try to stay right past his ftilt range if approaching.

3) camp as much as possible, don't camp too far or he can out camp you, make sure the nades he throws can go past you enough so they won't hit you.

4) The best way to keep advantage in this matchup is to get snake off the stage and look for an edge guard, or follow him if he up's into the sky and recovers from the top. Expect the b-sticked grenade (where they change their momentum in the opposite direction), follow it and grab as they land.

5) Grabs are win. But, spamming them is lose. If you spam grabs, he can probably ftilt you out of your grab which is pretty stupid. If he's ftilting you, hold out your shield until he does his second hit and shield grab him. If he's good, he will mix up with 1st hit into a grab.

6) Don't get grabbed. Being as a golden rule for everyone, this is game changing snake vs. oli. If the snake has a quick reaction, olimar's roll sucks so he can tech chase you or shield grab if you normal get up attack. It's good to try to get up a few times, and then just sit there a second and then do something the next time. But, if you aren't careful he can just dthrow--utilt you. I like to get up by tapping up and doing a utilt, but they eventually catch on, and that's when u just get up normal they will shield for the utilt and you grab lawlzzzz

7) Edge guarding, if he is dumb and approaches you at low %, grab bthrow off the stage and jump fair them as they waste their double jump (nearly EVERY SNAKE DJUMPS IF YOU BTHROW OFF AT LOW %), but be careful they might jump nair, in which you can just grab them as they land on ground with a nair or smash their legs. If you expect them to jump nair in this scenario, you can space your fair and hit his bottom leg as his other legs spin up top, and it will completely go through his nair. Aim for the foot.

8) Snakes Nair---if the small possibility if you getting hit, you will most likely want to smash di INTO his body and come out the other side. Or di away if he is floating backwards while nairing. If you try to whistle it, spam whistle as you di and you can whistle every single hit of his nair with separate whistles

9) F-Smash is your friend-- You can fsmash him if he tries to mortar slide, you can fsmash his ftilt if you space it away from him, you can pretty much stop most of his stuff with an fsmash if he's not aerial, just be extremely cautious as you can fsmash his grenades and do damage to yourself and lose your momentum

10) Dthrow follow ups include standard dthrow grabs, pseudo grabs, and at low-med % if they di above you, dthrow and charge a dsmash or a fsmash, me and blackwaltz do this that i know of and snakes always air dodge right into it and it's free decent damage. Also, if you fsmash in this scenario if he is low enough you can dash grab him before he moves, as shown in dabuz vs. ally wifi match, granted into wifi, it's still a very nice follow up

11) I forgot to mention in recovery, if you jump towards the edge some snakes randomly throw out a dtilt and it goes slightly below the stage and WILL hit you. Just be careful for anything.


FINAL NOTE:: Camp him as hard as you can, and punish all of his everything with spacing, and watch out for grenades and you are good.

oh, i forgot to mention, if you are one of the oli's who likes to uair through the edge of the stage hitting them underneath, if he drops a nade it WILL stage spike you, and that's an instant stock.


As far as counterpick stages, i love bringing him to any neutral but battlefield, i love yoshis for the quick dsmash kills and fd for the camping, lylat is really good if you can keep track of his nades and mine with the shadowing effects. Neutrals are your friend in most matchups, so keep that in mind

 

[SuSa]

CPU is awesomesauce, and although this is meant for DDD. With a few changes you can apply it to Snake.

The Approach:
The number one reason Dedede is believed to lose this matchup is the amount of damage you take and level of difficulty it is to approach olimar. Me and fiction have derived a solid way to approach olimar. First and most importantly, you need to establish the mindset that the pikmin are not real(except purple). Ignore all pikmin that are thrown at you. Don't shield them, don't try to get them off of you, not even the whites. Run right through them and go to olimar. Take note of how many purples he has and where they are in the lineup! This is absolutely essential. You need to powershield the purples like you would falco's laser.
Now that you've gotten to olimar, you can notice that he has 2 or less pikmin because they are all on your body. Stop JUST outside of olimar's grab range. Most olimars will either dash grab or pivot grab at this point. When you get into the range I mentioned, throw out an ftilt. This will stop a dash grab or a standing grab and even an fsmash. If olimar pivot grabs take a few steps forward and start spamming that ftilt. At this point olimar is in a very difficult situation. He can either roll around you or try to jump over you. The best thing to do is expect the roll because it's harder to react to than the jump. If he rolls turn around and grab him and then backthrow him, you are now in a gimping opportunity. If he jumps, he's either going to try to jump all the way over you or he's going to attack your shield. If he attacks your shield with anything but nair, ftilt out of shield and repeat the process I just described. If he jumps clear over you follow him and wait for him to land. Try to grab or begin spacing your ftilt again. Olimar has absolutely NO safe options when you're close to him, and this makes the match very fun.

Dedede's advantage over Olimar's grab:
Olimar's grab is flawed and I completely credit fiction for figuring it out. As of now, the only dedede's that know this are me fiction and teba, and now you. TURN YOUR VOLUME UP WHEN YOU FIGHT OLIMAR!. You know that little sound olimar makes when he grabs? You need instant tech skill reaction time to it, start practicing your reaction to that sound. You either need to spot dodge on reaction or roll around olimar on reaction. If you're closer to olimar you roll if you're farther you spot dodge. If you do it on reaction, dedede's roll is faster than the grab and his spot dodge lasts longer than the grab. This is an amazing flaw in Olimar's gameplay against dedede because it takes out his only close quarters advantage. If you elect to spot dodge, ftilt immediately! If you roll around him, grab him and throw him off, another gimping opportunity.

Where we win the matchup, offstage:
Now is the most important part and I'm sure you're already good at it so i'll just throw out some advice. If oli recovers low your only choice it to try to bair his jump, but what we're actually hoping for is that olimar recovers high, which most do. Jump BELOW olimar and uair! Olimar CANNOT whistle the whole uair and the last hit will send him further offstage allowing you to grab the edge and end the stock. Practice spacing the up air right so you can send him in the correct direction, you obviously don't want to send him back to the stage. Just takes some practice, you'll get it.

Summary:
Ignore the pikmin, let them grab your body so that olimar doesn't have his weapons. Powershield the purple throw. Ftilt ftilt ftilt. The whole matchup is ftilt, it's the best move you have and it outranges every single one of olimar's moves and it kills any pikmin he tries to throw
55:45 Dedede

 

[Jupz]

Everyone is stealin' our secret informationz

 

[Bizkit047]

I have to heavily disagree with ignoring white Pikmin being thrown on you. If it misses, that's fine, but if it latches on, get it off immediately. They do a crap load of damage when left on that you could otherwise easily avoid. It's not worth keeping a white on to attempt CPU's approach only to have it potentially fail and take all that damage for nothing. Just saying. Purples AND Whites should be the two you watch out for during Pikmin Toss, not just purples.

 

[SuSa]

Try it out in friendlies first. That's what I plan to do.

I do feel the same way though. White's simply rack up TO much damage.

 

[Bizkit047]

I play IcyLight a lot, and if you don't get those whites off, you'll go from 0 to 35% easily if you ignore a white one. It's even worse if you get grabbed with a white one on you already lulz. The others, except purple, aren't much of a threat though from the toss. I just tend to see people ignore a white one and take a ridiculous amount of damage for no reason, it's shocking.

 

[IcyLight]

I play IcyLight a lot, and if you don't get those whites off, you'll go from 0 to 35% easily if you ignore a white one. It's even worse if you get grabbed with a white one on you already lulz. The others, except purple, aren't much of a threat though from the toss. I just tend to see people ignore a white one and take a ridiculous amount of damage for no reason, it's shocking.

if you ignore a white pikmin at low % and we grab you, that's an easy 70+ damage for us through EASY grab combos. Either a) kill the white without leaving lag for us to grab you during or b) don't get grabbed


thought i would throw this in... 55/45 oli favor. If the snake knows the matchup it's a **** ton harder and we actually have to think. If you are a bad snake and approach randomly or get baited into grabs and pivots, then it's easily 65-35/70-30, so learn the matchup or get *****