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Oklahoma Thread: Weekly events for all games in OKC and Tulsa

DualCats

DualCats

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
502
I won't presume to speak on hazy's behalf but I hated p:m for a while. Its subtle dissimilarities to melee can be pretty frustrating for melee veterans. I think the reason I enjoy playing p:m is chiefly that I tend to win when I do so.
 
~tgm_Zeej

~tgm_Zeej

/
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,255
Location
Oklahoma City
DualCats said:
I won't presume to speak on hazy's behalf but I hated p:m for a while. Its subtle dissimilarities to melee can be pretty frustrating for melee veterans. I think the reason I enjoy playing p:m is chiefly that I tend to win when I do so.
Click to expand...
I can see that, but it seems a little silly to me. The conversion isn't exactly hard, and the content it brings to the table make it well worth the few hours you'll spend getting the hang of the changes. My opinion, obviously. Not trying to start **** or anything.
 
DualCats

DualCats

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
502
I can elaborate at length when I'm no longer mobile; I'm technically "at work" or something of that nature.

I just find myself in very few situations in which I'd rather be playing p:m than melee. It's hardly a novel experience; to me it's just kind of a version of melee that I'm slightly worse at. I've also played like 5 hours of brawl total in my entire life so anyone playing brawl characters just beats me for free because I have no idea what the **** they are doing.

Also, the SFX are worse. I'm something of a sound designer so **** like that is important to me.
 
~tgm_Zeej

~tgm_Zeej

/
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,255
Location
Oklahoma City
DualCats said:
I can elaborate at length when I'm no longer mobile; I'm technically "at work" or something of that nature.

I just find myself in very few situations in which I'd rather be playing p:m than melee. It's hardly a novel experience; to me it's just kind of a version of melee that I'm slightly worse at. I've also played like 5 hours of brawl total in my entire life so anyone playing brawl characters just beats me for free because I have no idea what the **** they are doing.

Also, the SFX are worse. I'm something of a sound designer so **** like that is important to me.
Click to expand...
To me, Smash is about the characters. The diversity of the new viable play styles adds so much to the game for me.

Well yeah, but you can replace those with the Melee effects if it's really important to you.
 
Sars_Pirate

Sars_Pirate

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
1,266
PM isn't a perfect clone of melee, and I doubt it'll ever be. The new patch is close though, waaayyyy closer than any of the other iterations.

That said I'm a genius, I beast with all characters every game, and ain't no one can stop me
 
Hazygoose

Hazygoose

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
1,999
Location
straight outta Locash
there are lots of reasons i don't enjoy p:m, here is a truncated and simplified list as i don't want to type all that **** nor would anyone want to read it (if you don't know me you prob don't know how long winded and complex my explanations are...if you REALLY don't know me you'll still think this is long, lol):

*presenting as a game and not a mod - i remember when it first launched lots of people interested and even more frustratingly some coders of p:m itself said it was going to completely replace melee as a new and fresh competitive game. as if 5 people with intermediate programming skills have the same capabilities of an experience programming team working under a veteran director employed for years. it is a mod. IT IS A MOD. and i don't say this as some problem with the fact that they are building on ideas, but i could take the project seriously if presented as a mod (i enjoy mods greatly as primarily a PC gamer). this is also where i'd place all my issues with the basics of the brawl engine that cannot be changed to precisely mirror the melee engine - from landings to the 1 universal lag frame and everything in between.

*if you think giving more characters longer combos is a way to balance the game, congratulations for buying into a vapid illusion. the same goes for giving/taking away so many kill moves. just because ness can do a 40% combo on a marth whereas he used to be able to only do it to fast fallers helps what? well it lets him build a character to 40% in one instead of two grabs. does this move him up from bottom tier? ICs can destroy a soul in one grab, and look where they are. even if we compile all of the changes in a character you'll see more of the same - consider the fact that understanding of the game structure defines the metagame. thus, these changes don't translate directly onto the same tableau. ness players now consider different approaches, timings and incidents to approaches, and so on. Thus, the imbalance gets shifted to a different part of the game - and while the tier list may not look as stark i can guarantee at the top end of the amount of viable characters will not change. in 2 different FPS i've played, for instance, a 2% damage difference has been a separation of something being viable or not. I appreciate the imbalances more in melee than the new ones in p:m

*new content being shoved into an existing idea. it is great for a lot of things...but for competitive play? naw, dawg. this is the only complaint i have that is actually only applicable on a competitive level, although all my problems i've stated are from an obvious competitive perspective. So a new class/character gets introduced to an rpg or moba or rts. what happens? well it is extra content and that is great fun. But the impact on competitive play = omfg more patches. no matter how well thought out the concept or execution, there are always many patches...do you know why that is so? that's because content constructed outside of the environment the rest of the world was made in obviously becomes a pariah no matter how well it attempts to camouflage. these new characters and movesets are wrong, clinical, detached, and again, the meta gets shifted and not improved.

*personal perferences - as karl said, the sounds...oh god the sounds. the built in ost <<<brawl ost ("but derp herp merp it's got sturf that sounds like it's from ocr and some brostep tahts liek soooo kewl"). most importantly to how it affects my gameplay would be the visuals, though. this is something that no one has to agree with, it's completely subjective, but melee is visually more stunning than brawl. that's just the way i consider it after i had seen them both in HD. i actually like brawl visuals even less than 64, but was at least glad that they stylized it differently like melee was different from 64 (which is why smash 4 has already disappointed the hell out of me and i've said this before many times - wtf why did they just rip the brawl models and visualizations and not restylize it like they had twice before!? they're just getting lazy IMO, and it's probably going to show in the next rendition). It looks different, and it's not even about me not being used to those graphics while attempting to play a melee esque game, it's just generally displeasing in comparison.

i'll stop there, in person at this point i would be going on and on and sound like i completely hated it. i don't, p:m is a novel idea - that doesn't have any intrinsic value. i like it because it is a version of smash. but i dislike it more than brawl (and thus smash 64/melee).

i just found out i won't be going to the austin tourney on the 21st because i'll be in court on the 20th (i'm suing someone, not getting sued) and will probably need to do things right after regarding that and not hop in a car to get housing friday night. i encourage you guys to put a car together, though! it's going to be epic and OK should try and be there. i'm going to try and get KC/Ark to go, and AZ (axe+?) is interested as well as m2k apparently.
 
counterPayment

counterPayment

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2013
Messages
106
Hazygoose said:
there are lots of reasons i don't enjoy p:m, here is a truncated and simplified list as i don't want to type all that **** nor would anyone want to read it (if you don't know me you prob don't know how long winded and complex my explanations are...if you REALLY don't know me you'll still think this is long, lol):

*presenting as a game and not a mod - i remember when it first launched lots of people interested and even more frustratingly some coders of p:m itself said it was going to completely replace melee as a new and fresh competitive game. as if 5 people with intermediate programming skills have the same capabilities of an experience programming team working under a veteran director employed for years. it is a mod. IT IS A MOD. and i don't say this as some problem with the fact that they are building on ideas, but i could take the project seriously if presented as a mod (i enjoy mods greatly as primarily a PC gamer). this is also where i'd place all my issues with the basics of the brawl engine that cannot be changed to precisely mirror the melee engine - from landings to the 1 universal lag frame and everything in between.

*if you think giving more characters longer combos is a way to balance the game, congratulations for buying into a vapid illusion. the same goes for giving/taking away so many kill moves. just because ness can do a 40% combo on a marth whereas he used to be able to only do it to fast fallers helps what? well it lets him build a character to 40% in one instead of two grabs. does this move him up from bottom tier? ICs can destroy a soul in one grab, and look where they are. even if we compile all of the changes in a character you'll see more of the same - consider the fact that understanding of the game structure defines the metagame. thus, these changes don't translate directly onto the same tableau. ness players now consider different approaches, timings and incidents to approaches, and so on. Thus, the imbalance gets shifted to a different part of the game - and while the tier list may not look as stark i can guarantee at the top end of the amount of viable characters will not change. in 2 different FPS i've played, for instance, a 2% damage difference has been a separation of something being viable or not. I appreciate the imbalances more in melee than the new ones in p:m

*new content being shoved into an existing idea. it is great for a lot of things...but for competitive play? naw, dawg. this is the only complaint i have that is actually only applicable on a competitive level, although all my problems i've stated are from an obvious competitive perspective. So a new class/character gets introduced to an rpg or moba or rts. what happens? well it is extra content and that is great fun. But the impact on competitive play = omfg more patches. no matter how well thought out the concept or execution, there are always many patches...do you know why that is so? that's because content constructed outside of the environment the rest of the world was made in obviously becomes a pariah no matter how well it attempts to camouflage. these new characters and movesets are wrong, clinical, detached, and again, the meta gets shifted and not improved.

*personal perferences - as karl said, the sounds...oh god the sounds. the built in ost <<<brawl ost ("but derp herp merp it's got sturf that sounds like it's from ocr and some brostep tahts liek soooo kewl"). most importantly to how it affects my gameplay would be the visuals, though. this is something that no one has to agree with, it's completely subjective, but melee is visually more stunning than brawl. that's just the way i consider it after i had seen them both in HD. i actually like brawl visuals even less than 64, but was at least glad that they stylized it differently like melee was different from 64 (which is why smash 4 has already disappointed the hell out of me and i've said this before many times - wtf why did they just rip the brawl models and visualizations and not restylize it like they had twice before!? they're just getting lazy IMO, and it's probably going to show in the next rendition). It looks different, and it's not even about me not being used to those graphics while attempting to play a melee esque game, it's just generally displeasing in comparison.

i'll stop there, in person at this point i would be going on and on and sound like i completely hated it. i don't, p:m is a novel idea - that doesn't have any intrinsic value. i like it because it is a version of smash. but i dislike it more than brawl (and thus smash 64/melee).

i just found out i won't be going to the austin tourney on the 21st because i'll be in court on the 20th (i'm suing someone, not getting sued) and will probably need to do things right after regarding that and not hop in a car to get housing friday night. i encourage you guys to put a car together, though! it's going to be epic and OK should try and be there. i'm going to try and get KC/Ark to go, and AZ (axe+?) is interested as well as m2k apparently.
Click to expand...
Hazygoose said:
there are lots of reasons i don't enjoy p:m, here is a truncated and simplified list as i don't want to type all that **** nor would anyone want to read it (if you don't know me you prob don't know how long winded and complex my explanations are...if you REALLY don't know me you'll still think this is long, lol):

*presenting as a game and not a mod - i remember when it first launched lots of people interested and even more frustratingly some coders of p:m itself said it was going to completely replace melee as a new and fresh competitive game. as if 5 people with intermediate programming skills have the same capabilities of an experience programming team working under a veteran director employed for years. it is a mod. IT IS A MOD. and i don't say this as some problem with the fact that they are building on ideas, but i could take the project seriously if presented as a mod (i enjoy mods greatly as primarily a PC gamer). this is also where i'd place all my issues with the basics of the brawl engine that cannot be changed to precisely mirror the melee engine - from landings to the 1 universal lag frame and everything in between.

*if you think giving more characters longer combos is a way to balance the game, congratulations for buying into a vapid illusion. the same goes for giving/taking away so many kill moves. just because ness can do a 40% combo on a marth whereas he used to be able to only do it to fast fallers helps what? well it lets him build a character to 40% in one instead of two grabs. does this move him up from bottom tier? ICs can destroy a soul in one grab, and look where they are. even if we compile all of the changes in a character you'll see more of the same - consider the fact that understanding of the game structure defines the metagame. thus, these changes don't translate directly onto the same tableau. ness players now consider different approaches, timings and incidents to approaches, and so on. Thus, the imbalance gets shifted to a different part of the game - and while the tier list may not look as stark i can guarantee at the top end of the amount of viable characters will not change. in 2 different FPS i've played, for instance, a 2% damage difference has been a separation of something being viable or not. I appreciate the imbalances more in melee than the new ones in p:m

*new content being shoved into an existing idea. it is great for a lot of things...but for competitive play? naw, dawg. this is the only complaint i have that is actually only applicable on a competitive level, although all my problems i've stated are from an obvious competitive perspective. So a new class/character gets introduced to an rpg or moba or rts. what happens? well it is extra content and that is great fun. But the impact on competitive play = omfg more patches. no matter how well thought out the concept or execution, there are always many patches...do you know why that is so? that's because content constructed outside of the environment the rest of the world was made in obviously becomes a pariah no matter how well it attempts to camouflage. these new characters and movesets are wrong, clinical, detached, and again, the meta gets shifted and not improved.

*personal perferences - as karl said, the sounds...oh god the sounds. the built in ost <<<brawl ost ("but derp herp merp it's got sturf that sounds like it's from ocr and some brostep tahts liek soooo kewl"). most importantly to how it affects my gameplay would be the visuals, though. this is something that no one has to agree with, it's completely subjective, but melee is visually more stunning than brawl. that's just the way i consider it after i had seen them both in HD. i actually like brawl visuals even less than 64, but was at least glad that they stylized it differently like melee was different from 64 (which is why smash 4 has already disappointed the hell out of me and i've said this before many times - wtf why did they just rip the brawl models and visualizations and not restylize it like they had twice before!? they're just getting lazy IMO, and it's probably going to show in the next rendition). It looks different, and it's not even about me not being used to those graphics while attempting to play a melee esque game, it's just generally displeasing in comparison.

i'll stop there, in person at this point i would be going on and on and sound like i completely hated it. i don't, p:m is a novel idea - that doesn't have any intrinsic value. i like it because it is a version of smash. but i dislike it more than brawl (and thus smash 64/melee).

i just found out i won't be going to the austin tourney on the 21st because i'll be in court on the 20th (i'm suing someone, not getting sued) and will probably need to do things right after regarding that and not hop in a car to get housing friday night. i encourage you guys to put a car together, though! it's going to be epic and OK should try and be there. i'm going to try and get KC/Ark to go, and AZ (axe+?) is interested as well as m2k apparently.
Click to expand...
Wow
 
LiL.Will

LiL.Will

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
321
Location
Oklahoma City,Oklahoma
NNID
ZOMGitzWill
3DS FC
2208-5740-6357
What tourney i may take that day off so i can join. Also i'll be getting my own place on the 16th so im hoping people will come down as im planning on hosting smashfest too.
 
Hazygoose

Hazygoose

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
1,999
Location
straight outta Locash
local: super bit wars 2 in norman on nov 30th
regional: forte in austin on dec 21

people should honestly be going to both :D no johns with SBW attendance, everyone should go to both see what they should be improving/where they stand and to support a real community event. also, if OK gets just 1 car down to austin it could help kickstart the entire southwest scene. there hasn't been a full regional or national since the last mlg dallas.
 
the_irish_dude

the_irish_dude

SCG TO
Joined
Mar 18, 2007
Messages
1,377
Location
OKC, OK
3DS FC
5301-0744-1149
so it sounded like you were comparing it as a competitor to melee.. and not brawl... as game play and competitiveness how do you see it compared to brawl? i like it better than brawl. i like it cuz its new with characters that i now find fun to play compared to brawl. if melee wasnt still so popular i would think PM would be a huge success. since it is still popular tho, people like yourself for instance see no need to play it competitively. which is ok lol. i feel comparing it to melee is bad. its only fair to look at it as a combo of brawl and melee.
the weight and the sound is what bothers me the most, but its definitely not something that i couldnt get into competitively. maybe thats because i was never great at melee like some of you were/are. i enjoy the hell out of PM and want to get better. i already see it bringing both brawl and melee gamers together unlike before which is definitely a plus.


i wanna get big names here for SBW. i did comment in AZ thread and hit up M2K on twitter, but god knows nothing will come out of that. i wish HXC would quit dickin around so i get this thing going
 
Hazygoose

Hazygoose

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
1,999
Location
straight outta Locash
i compared it to melee because that's how it's presented, again, as a replacement and not as a mod. regardless, as a brawl "mod" i would see it the same way - a melee attempt that just doesn't work (meaning it doesn't replace or even reach a similar value to melee, not that as a game it's unplayable). brawl is something completely different, and so i can appreciate it's uniqueness and novelty in the smash series. as a competitive fighter brawl is quite boring (note to any melee snob: it's definitely competitive, just boring, like golf) due to the severe lack of comboing, frey concentration, and speed. but since i have no desire to play p:m competitively nor will i ever, my higher appreciation for brawl just as a video game trumps my slight curiosity in community creation. thus, i would rather play brawl than p:m.

i think sbw is going to get few OOSers except some texans, just because AZ is aware of forte which is only 3 weeks after and is going to be bigger. ok's main problem has always been local turnout, though. this is a chance for that to change. i remember intimikill 1 -only 5 OK players but 30+ tourney entrants, lulz. i could always get OOSer support, oklahomies stopped going to stuff after the first 3 ohsnaps :( go to sbw peeps, no johns.
 
Sars_Pirate

Sars_Pirate

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
1,266
Honestly I don't know if i can go to SBW cause I was thinking of visiting my fam for the holidays
 
DualCats

DualCats

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
502
I'll probably be able to stream but I need a microphone. I don't want to take my battlestation this time because that was just a ***** so I'm just going to format a laptop and acquire drivers somehow.
 
RaigothDagon

RaigothDagon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
227
Location
Grove, Oklahoma
Cool, yeah I'll definitely be up for some matches at some point, mostly I've been joining the Springfield area for my smash fix, but that drive is super long. What days are you free? I think after today, most of this week is freed up for me.
 
H

Hyper

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
159
Location
Inside a Pan
I'm busy for these couple of weeks, I'll be free on the 27th and will be free pretty much everyday except friday and saturday.
 
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