Official Yoshi CG List ""FRAME DATA INFO CHANGED A FEW THINGS"" (Updated on 9/29/09)

[SOVAman]

Does anybody else just release grab to jump --to spike? Everyone jumps out of the release grab as soon as they can, so I found it incredibly easy to spike people by jumping while they jump and spiking. It works on so many people, then it turns it into a mind game situation where they either avoid you or get spiked, which is really useful.

I usually CG them to the edge then Fair spike its a free KO on some characters. I wrote that in my guide somewhere.

Good to see this thread get more attention since we kinda abandoned the CG discussion for a while. Time to bring it back :D

@Bwett I will test for a rough estimation on percentage for Lucas

 

[.Marik]

Subscribed.

 

[Airborne]

i think i'm going to try some uthrow antics on the spacies at low percents.... i can easily catch people off guard with it, but i'm thinking maybe fox doesn't exactly have enough time to get out of it by jumping, due to his fall speed..... if so, it'll help out the spacies match-ups and maybe sheik as well! =P

edit: i'll also test dthrow, but my reason for it is that uthrow throws the opponent up not as far as the dthrow i believe, but there could be a chance for either one, if uthrow really does have a longer ending lag on yosh...

edit^2: y'know this reminds me of marths cg on the spacies with his uthrow back in melee. XD i think him and doc are the reason why i wanted to look into uthrow some more.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I usually CG them to the edge then Fair spike its a free KO on some characters. I wrote that in my guide somewhere.

Good to see this thread get more attention since we kinda abandoned the CG discussion for a while. Time to bring it back :D

@Bwett I will test for a rough estimation on percentage for Lucas

Right, but I mean on characters who you can't actually have a guaranteed spike but come close.

 

[SOVAman]

Right, but I mean on characters who you can't actually have a guaranteed spike but come close.

Yea that's interesting and Dair to Nair

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

you can get a dash attack on everyone u cg right?

 

[SOVAman]

you can get a dash attack on everyone u cg right?

Yep I think just about everyone

 

[Poltergust]

OK, now for the rest of the characters!

Pit:

Up-slope- No. Falls a little too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Ice Climbers:

Up-slope- To tell you the truth, I'm not sure. I need more testing on this one.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

R.O.B.:

Up-slope- No. Fall too far away.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Kirby:

Up-slope- YES! But it needs to be buffered almost perfectly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Meta Knight:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly. (Are you sure that he's chain-grabbable up a slope? He looked like touched the ground way before I could do anything)
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

King Dedede:

Up-slope- No. Falls too far.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Olimar:

Up-slope- YES! Requires a little bit of buffering, though. Not as much as Kirby, however.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Fox:

Up-slope: No (duh...). Falls WAY WAY WAY too quickly.
Down-slope: No. He falls too far away despite being the right height for it. o_O

Falco:

Up-slope: No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope: No. Jumps too high. (lolwut)

Wolf (oh, I can't wait...):

Up-slope: No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope: No. Falls too far....

Captain Falcon:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Pikachu:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Squirtle:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high, but you can still up-smash him out of it.

Ivysaur:

Up-slope- YES! It's kind of like Falco, actually.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Charizard:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Lucario:

Up-slope- No. Falls too far.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Jigglypuff:

Up-slope- No. Jumps too high (lolwut), but you can now up-smash her out of release.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high. I didn't test the grab-release to u-air, however.

Marth:

Up-slope- No. Falls too far.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Ike:

Up-slope- No. Falls just a little too far.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Ness:

Up-slope- YES! And you can even up-smash and dash attack him out of release.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high. I didn't test the grab-release to u-air, however.

Lucas:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high. I'm not sure about u-airing him, though....

Mr. Game & Watch:

Up-slope- Actually, I'm not sure. This guy NEEDS more testing. o_O
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Snake:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

Sonic:

Up-slope- No. Falls too quickly.
Down-slope- No. Jumps too high.

So...

Characters that this is effective against: Sheik (down), Kirby (up), Olimar (up), Squirtle (down), Ivysaur (up), Jigglypuff (up), Ness (up)
Characters that require further testing: Wario (up & down), Ice Climbers (up), Mr. Game & Watch (up)
Character that ONCE AGAIN gets screwed over by grabs: Ness

 

[SOVAman]

Good **** Polt!

 

[bigman40]

Alright, I'm doing frame data on these CG release options and MK CANNOT be Faired no matter what. I'll edit more in when I get them.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I have a question. Did you guys notice sometimes people break out so fast they ground break against Yoshi? Is a ground pound gauranteed if they do this?

 

[Chaco]

I believe so.

Alright, I'm doing frame data on these CG release options and MK CANNOT be Faired no matter what. I'll edit more in when I get them.

And this is wrong. I talked to him about it. They can move, but if they do, just be smart and recover. Eventually they aren't going to move and you will get the kill. You be smart about it and you've got it. The pros far outweigh the cons.

 

[Silent Beast]

I have a question. Did you guys notice sometimes people break out so fast they ground break against Yoshi? Is a ground pound gauranteed if they do this?

I don't think so, as I'm assuming that Yoshi's ground break gives both him and the opponent 30 frames of lag, like all other ground breaks (with exceptions being Bowser's ground break and DK, Ness, and Lucas ground breaking). That said, maybe Yoshi's ground break is special, like the egg lay cancel, which gives him like a 30-frame advantage. Scatz, when you get the chance, could we get frame data on Yoshi's ground break, please?

And this is wrong. I talked to him about it. They can move, but if they do, just be smart and recover. Eventually they aren't going to move and you will get the kill. You be smart about it and you've got it. The pros far outweigh the cons.

So in other words, it's not guaranteed and becomes like a tech chase.

 

[Chaco]

Pretty much, and tech chases do have good success.

 

[Bwett]

So...this brings back nostalgia of Mmac v. Bwett back in the day, whether it works or doesn't work. Mmac really put a bad impact on the Yoshi boards. Just as a precaution, I really suggest people make it very clear in any writeup on whether something is guaranteed or not.

It's great to think of possibilities of how to punish the different ways of getting out of the situation, but don't confuse covering all their options with guaranteed. This is something that Mmac had a problem understanding. <3

 

[Chaco]

I know it's not guaranteed, they can go back. However, if it's working use it. If it's not, don't. Simple as that.

 

[auroreon]

I fight MK a lot cos the UK are tier whores. Its deffinatly worth doing, my general rule with stuff that isn't guaranteed is...
Don't do it more than 3 times in a match, don't do it more than twice in a row, do other mix ups before and after it.

So for this the first CGs I'd do I would maybe Fthrow or Bthrow and follow up with eggs, then maybe an Upsmash out of the next CG and then on the next one try for the release into Fair, then next couple of times try something else again.
IDK, thats just how I like to do things.

 

[SOVAman]

I know it's not guaranteed, they can go back. However, if it's working use it. If it's not, don't. Simple as that.

QFT


There never is like a guaranteed anything in this game. Just do what chaco says if it works do it if it doesn't don't lol.

frame data is not needed to say if you should do it or not. You gotta take risk and try stuff even if its not "guaranteed"

 

[Poltergust]

Hey, lil b? Can you put my data on the first post? I know that it isn't terribly important, but every little bit counts....

 

[Chaco]

QFT


There never is like a guaranteed anything in this game. Just do what chaco says if it works do it if it doesn't don't lol.

frame data is not needed to say if you should do it or not. You gotta take risk and try stuff even if its not "guaranteed"

Oh shi-

We agreed again.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I agree with you both, but it's nice to know if its gauranteed so I know whether I have to keep practicing or not so I'm not wasting my time trying to do the impossible =)

 

[Chaco]

Well, it's not impossible, but it's not guaranteed. I actually got in an argument with Bwett over this. Lol.

 

[SOVAman]

Oh shi-

We agreed again.

wow lol

@polt: i will add it when i get around to it

 

[Bwett]

What I was trying to get at earlier was that we shouldn't hope that it will work. We should try to find all the minute options MK has in the situation and whether it would be even a good risk to do so. I KNOW that MK can stage spike depending on how we DI a shuttle loop. I do not know whether DI'ing properly would avoid this.

If we are looking at a high risk-high reward situation with a possibility of losing a stock at low percent, I don't consider that a good option. Now, I'm not saying that it's not an option. All I want is for anyone that pops into this thread to know the reality of the setup.

 

[Chaco]

Now we should push the 100% OPTION that no one uses. CG Release-DT Dsmash. Do that near the edge and you knock them off the stage pretty well with that first swipe.

 

[Metatitan]

eh it seems a whole lot of effort for something that isnt a huge reward, has a high chance of being messed up and frankly something we dont particularly need

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

If you practice it, then you wont mess it up when you need it. This is a good option to kill on stages with high ceilings (Japes, bottom parts of RC, Castle Siege) if you can get them near the edge. If you lose a match because something you could have done was "too hard" then you have no room to ***** about not winning.

On another note, can someone help me test something,

On MK, if you can get a grab at 0%.
Is Grab > release > USmash > jab x 2 > dash grab guaranteed?
Or is this just something that seems to work semi frequently but is escapable?

Would be a fast way to build dmg to keep the match as in favor as we can get lol.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Chaco]

If you practice it, then you wont mess it up when you need it. This is a good option to kill on stages with high ceilings (Japes, bottom parts of RC, Castle Siege) if you can get them near the edge. If you lose a match because something you could have done was "too hard" then you have no room to ***** about not winning.

Exactly what he said.

 

[auroreon]

On MK, if you can get a grab at 0%.
Is Grab > release > USmash > jab x 2 > dash grab guaranteed?
Or is this just something that seems to work semi frequently but is escapable?

Pretty sure thats escapable, Jab > Dash Grab is escapable by any character at any % I think, but it does have a high success rate.

Now we should push the 100% OPTION that no one uses. CG Release-DT Dsmash. Do that near the edge and you knock them off the stage pretty well with that first swipe.

So that is actually 100%? I thought I read somewhere that it was escapable. I'm going to be practising this a lot then.

 

[Chaco]

Well, the whole idea of it was brought on by CG Release-DT Fsmash. Which, I still believe is viable. Considering it is a mere 1 frame off, and the only option they have of blocking it is to powershield. They jump; get *****. They move back; RAAAPE. Powershield; Gets it out RIGHT as our Fsmash connects. But this really raises the logic, what kind of person PSs during a CG? No one does! It destroys the option of you breaking free by trying to protect from the kill shot. Either way, I've done it to a friend I was testing with, and he said he couldn't do anything to dodge it. Then after Scatty said PS, I tested that. And you don't know how barely it is. I mean it is just BARELY. And if their timing is off, you've got them there to. Overall, I think it's worth using. I'm not going to let 1 Frame be the difference of using an almost sure thing. Notice how I said almost. You have to know it is not 100%, but more like 95%. Because seriously, who the **** PSs in a CG?!

But yes, DT Dsmash is 100%.

 

[Silent Beast]

I forget, is shielding one of the things you can't buffer? That would make PSing the fsmash even harder, though I guess that also assumes that the Yoshi times the DT to fsmash perfectly (though maybe you can buffer those?).

 

[Metatitan]

drill rest isnt 100% either, unless u do it right where they trip or they stay in the "oof" animation, they can just perfect shield the rest. but jiggs is so bad that we drill rest all the time, and i can actually do it perfectly a lot. but DT f smash does not have them in the "oof" animation so they can just PS it every time. and honestly i don't find it worth it for me to relearn DT just to get a d smash from a chaingrab, sure it can freshen up smash up but thats what eggs are for, and u can always just dash attack from a cg to freshen your up smash.

 

[auroreon]

I completely agree with Chacos logic, the chances of anyone PSing during a CG is so slim combined with the perfect timing you need makes CG DT Fsmash deffinatly worth using, anyway, anyone who is PSing during a CG is probably not going to pose much of a threat lol.

Oh and if you ever face me, NEVER try to drill rest. My brother plays Jiggz and him drill resting is what taught me the virtues of SDIing all mutihit moves. Drill rest is rediculessly easy to SDI out of and then its just a free fully charged Fsmash.

 

[Metatitan]

^
u would get rested so hard i'd peel the skin from your yoshi's body. ask any yoshi who has played me. i don't need drill rest to rest, especially against yoshi.

moving on, when they learn its PSable they will PS it, simple as that.

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

You should also check to see if its viable on the edge, no floor = no powershield

 

[SOVAman]

I am almost done testing the Back Throw CG I will post later today

 

[Metatitan]

haha i tihnk we can standing cg to f smash on the platform of smashville if its going in the same direction as your grab release. anyone wanna frame test it?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but what's DT stand for? The only thing I can think of is down tilt but how could you down tilt someone out of a grab release? So I can't figure it out =/

 

[bigman40]

Dragonic Trot = Fox Trot + Dragonic Reverse

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Wow I need to work on DRing soon then.