Official "Who is going to return?" topic

[SiegK]

And I've heard it does little damage if you're staying next to her, but I'm not sure.
Veeeery disappointing FS :/

Very disappointing character move set choice.

Its so wack that you cant just change them whenever you want, Like Zelda and Shiek in Melee.

So...like what is Samus users arnt good with a fast character like Zero Suit, are they screwed out of a Final Smash attack? I think thats pretty stupid of Sakurai.

He said he didnt want to force anything on players who play Brawl, thats why there is no ranking system for the online play.
But he is forcing people who play Samus and dont like Zero Suit to get a Smash ball and play a character they dont like or just let the other player get it and own the.

Sure you can get it, not use it and w8 for it to die out. But then u cant use ur Special move until its gone.

WOW. So much for not forcing us to do stuff.

 

[Ginger9001]

You'd think she would just go all psycho with her whip or something. Ah well. :/

 

[SiegK]

Or her Zero Suit alls off.

 

[Ferret]

Or her Zero Suit alls off.

lol.... Snake's FS --> Naked Snake? O.o

 

[SiegK]

lol.... Snake's FS --> Naked Snake? O.o

Snake's FS --> "Big Snake"

 

[CKRikou]

I would assume Zamus to be selectable from the Character Selection screen. You can't really do it in a Zelda/Sheik way, or else they'd have to remove a special move, and they're all pretty important to her moveset. Then again, this is just speculation.

 

[Ginger9001]

Or her Zero Suit alls off.

That would be fantastic!

Snake's FS --> "Big Snake"

"Solid Snake" Lmao.

If Megaman is on the game and his FS is similiar to Samus's do you think Megaman will run around naked too? :0

 

[Ferret]

I would assume Zamus to be selectable from the Character Selection screen. You can't really do it in a Zelda/Sheik way, or else they'd have to remove a special move, and they're all pretty important to her moveset. Then again, this is just speculation.

I don't want the transformation to be her down b or another Move.
In melee if you select Zelda and hold down the A button before the fight starts you start as Shiek and not as Zelda.
That's what I meant

 

[Stryks]

According to gympy, U cant change by holding a button and transform in the beginning in the match when ur samus, so the ONLY way so far is by final smash...

 

[SiegK]

I would assume Zamus to be selectable from the Character Selection screen. You can't really do it in a Zelda/Sheik way, or else they'd have to remove a special move, and they're all pretty important to her moveset. Then again, this is just speculation.

Zamus is an awesome Nickname for her.
But too bad shes only a Final Smash character.
I really dont like that, if you cant tell. Haha.

I don't want the transformation to be her down b or another Move.

I wouldnt want that either. I do admit that the Final Smash Transformation is a cool idea. But its not very practical to the fighters who like Samus, like her Final Smash but dont want to play as Zamus.

According to gympy, U cant change by holding a button and transform in the beginning in the match when ur samus, so the ONLY way so far is by final smash...

I would assume so. But that would be cool. I still say make Zamus her own character.
Would be for the best.

 

[Alex Tcp]

I hope Smash Ballz are Items that can be turned off. Cause, really. Final Smashes can really unbalance a match.
I Loved Smash Bros because there were no really big super special moves that can totally turn the game around.
I Liked it cause it was just awesome fighting and real skill was needed.
Melee was like "Oh **** im losing I really need to step it up"
But now with Final Smashes it like, "Oh **** im losing I need to use an auto win!"

Ive brought this up b4 and dont say "But its a new feture to the new game, adapt to it and use it well"
Whatever to that, I hope we can turn them off.

They Might be an Item. But I dont think so because if you can turn them off. How can you play as Zero Suit Samus?
And once you use a Smash Ball and Become ZSS, how can you change back? Is it when ZSS gets a Smash Ball and changes back?
Personaly, I think thats wack.

What say you guys?? o.o

Im pretty sure ZS Samus would switch back when she gets knocked off and returns

 

[The rAt]

Well They arnt that Rare. I for Super Sonic twice in a 2 Min Match at E for All, my friend was Link and he got one too.

Thats 3 Smash Balls in 2 Min. Thats ******** and can really F Up competitive for real Smash Players.

In Melee and 64 you can take off All items.
But you cant take off any items when ur playing Adventure/Classic/All Star. (those are probly what ur thinking about)

I suspect they could have upped the Smash Ball ratio for the E for All demo just to highlight Final Smashes, so that everyone got a chance to use one at least once. I could have sworn Sakurai said on the Dojo quite some time ago that Smash Balls only showed up once a match.

To be honest, I love wildcards like Smash Balls in the gameplay. Sure, there will always be instances where they are abused for cheap kills as a result, but it balances things out in terms of character matchups. And it strikes me that a big part of being a good player is adapting, and even anticipating these kinds of wildcards and finding ways to use them to your advantage. Like killing them while they're scrambling for the Smash Ball. Or beating it out of them before they can use it.

That's not to talk you out of disliking it, just to present a different view. Also, not to nitpick, but I don't think real players = competitive players. I know plenty of good Smash players who don't do tournaments or use the lingo or generally fit into the box associated with "competitive players".

Yeah I know, huh? This might be the one thing about Brawl that ticks me off. And Even though I might not play as Zero Suit Samus, I love playing as Samus. (not my best, but shes fun)

And I would hate to have to change my character if I wanna do my Final Smash.

So for those players who will be good Samus Players and Not good Zero Suit Players are gunnd be screwed out of Final Smashes. AND THEY STILL HAVNT TOLD US HOW YOU CHANGE BACK!

I think it's supposed to function the same way as the Stamina thingie for Pokemon Trainer. That is, it forces you to master both instead of one or the other, so we don't have Samus only users who completely ignore Zamus (like Sheik/Zelda in Melee).

I agree that it sucks though. I mean, they can do the stamina thingie for PT without screwing people, because he's a new character. Nobody is attached to playing just Charizard or just Squirtle, but each and every Samus player is already attached to playing just Samus. Two generations worth of attached for many, in fact. Additionally, I suspect with PT, one of the Pokes is going to be a bit overpowered, and making you swap creates balance. However, don't recall Samus ever being overpowered before, and I haven't heard anything about it being so in Brawl so that reasoning doesn't really work, either.

The only other reason I could think of for the FS mechanic would be if Samus had a ridiculously powerful FS, and attaching Zamus was intended as a cost for using it. However, from what I've seen Samus' FS is good, but not that good.

Granted, I'm not a Samus user, so it doesn't affect me very much, but I feel your pain.

If every character had an exact clone of themselves with different moves... then Brawl would just be DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 1.5

I don't think anyone wants that.

I'm just waiting for someone to see that and post "Gogeta 4 BRawlz!!"

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I suspect they could have upped the Smash Ball ratio for the E for All demo just to highlight Final Smashes, so that everyone got a chance to use one at least once. I could have sworn Sakurai said on the Dojo quite some time ago that Smash Balls only showed up once a match.

To be honest, I love wildcards like Smash Balls in the gameplay. Sure, there will always be instances where they are abused for cheap kills as a result, but it balances things out in terms of character matchups. And it strikes me that a big part of being a good player is adapting, and even anticipating these kinds of wildcards and finding ways to use them to your advantage. Like killing them while they're scrambling for the Smash Ball. Or beating it out of them before they can use it.

That's not to talk you out of disliking it, just to present a different view. Also, not to nitpick, but I don't think real players = competitive players. I know plenty of good Smash players who don't do tournaments or use the lingo or generally fit into the box associated with "competitive players".

Wildcards are nice, as long as the wildcard gives an equal opportunity to each character.
Random items are a no-no, especially since they spawn randomly and appear at random. The character closest will usually get it, unless the opposing character is just plain faster.

fast characters + items = no fun for everyone else

The Smashball, however, IS a great wildcard. As far as we know, no one attack can break a Smashball and it floats around quickly and evasively just as much for every character. I hope to play in serious play with Smashballs active, because to me, it seems like the one thing truly balancing all characters.

I'm just waiting for someone to see that and post "Gogeta 4 BRawlz!!"

Gogeta 4 BRaw-- ummm... yea! n00bs like that piss me right the hell off, too! Grrr! No one better do that!

 

[tafutureboy]

maybe you can set how many smashballs appear per match in items options( just a thought)

 

[SiegK]

Im pretty sure ZS Samus would switch back when she gets knocked off and returns

No she doesnt she stays Zamus until you get another Smash Ball.

And Sorry Rat. but your wrong. If you read my post from above its Smash Ball, not Stamina.

If it was Stamina you would have noticed in the Demo.

And Im not a big Samus player either, im just looking out for/seeing it through the eyes of a Samus player.

 

[The rAt]

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Wildcards are nice, as long as the wildcard gives an equal opportunity to each character.
Random items are a no-no, especially since they spawn randomly and appear at random. The character closest will usually get it, unless the opposing character is just plain faster.

fast characters + items = no fun for everyone else

The Smashball, however, IS a great wildcard. As far as we know, no one attack can break a Smashball and it floats around quickly and evasively just as much for every character. I hope to play in serious play with Smashballs active, because to me, it seems like the one thing truly balancing all characters.

I think with some fast characters (namely Pikachu ), the ability to get to items faster can compensate for other flaws. Like I said before, it can be taken to extremes, so I understand why some people like them out in general, but if I had my way, the only item that would be removed completely would be ray gun. Not because I think it's a bad item, just because I end up on the wrong side of i without fail.

Gogeta 4 BRaw-- ummm... yea! n00bs like that piss me right the hell off, too! Grrr! No one better do that!

Careful or we might discover your terrible secret. And I mean besides the part about you having taken out JFK, faked the moon landing, and kidnapped Elvis.

No she doesnt she stays Zamus until you get another Smash Ball.

And Sorry Rat. but your wrong. If you read my post from above its Smash Ball, not Stamina.

If it was Stamina you would have noticed in the Demo.

And Im not a big Samus player either, im just looking out for/seeing it through the eyes of a Samus player.

Oh, I think you may have misred my post. I didn't mean to say that Samus would change to Zamus as a result of Stamina, I meant that both Samus and PT have (arguably) forcible transformations (PT by Stamina, Samus by Smash Ball, like you said), so I think they were probably by Sakurai for similar reasons. That is, it was intended to force people to use both transformations of a character, rather than one or the other.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think with some fast characters (namely Pikachu ), the ability to get to items faster can compensate for other flaws. Like I said before, it can be taken to extremes, so I understand why some people like them out in general, but if I had my way, the only item that would be removed completely would be ray gun. Not because I think it's a bad item, just because I end up on the wrong side of i without fail.

But by that logic, the faster the character, the worse a fighter they should be. I don't like that idea at all.

And if we're going to give suggestions as to which weapons should be removed... then I'd have to take out bob-ombs, as much as I love them. I don't know why, call my paranoid, but I think they have it out for me.

(Ice Climbers too... particularly Nana.)

~ X(

jerks

 

[Dynamism]

But by that logic, the faster the character, the worse a fighter they should be. I don't like that idea at all.

And if we're going to give suggestions as to which weapons should be removed... then I'd have to take out bob-ombs, as much as I love them. I don't know why, call my paranoid, but I think they have it out for me.

(Ice Climbers too... particularly Nana.)

~ X(

jerks

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Somehow I KNEW you would mention the polar *****

Anywho. I really don't think Pika and Sonic and Fox are gonna be "purposefully" worse than Bowser and DK and Ike just because they expect us to use an item. So far each character looks much more balanced on their own then most would expect. I'm expecting a perfect game (balance wise) and i don't see any exceptions. And anything that may be out of place can easily be tampered with and fixed before it's too late. Sakurai did say they only appear once a match. Either way I don't see how that would be a "fair" thing. Some people would get p'oed because of them and noone would get p'oed without them. I think it's a reasonable choice to eliminate them for the oh so treasured "tourneys" on the comp scene.

I personally like smash balls (and all items for that matter) but I do believe you can turn them off. Sakurai again said they were actually an item. And if in the previous two games we could turn them off and they indeed "Wow. I hate to admit it, but we thought of everything!" then I don't see why they wouldn't let us do that. Having one smashball a battle is like having one B-bomb or one Nana for one person at random. I own at Big Blue...but it's "unfair" for the most part. If there was a tourney with only Big Blue, I'd probably win every time...but that wouldn't prove anything cause it's really "unfair" It truely is a different game with the "unfair" factor but maybe for those who don't mind it, a Smash Ball Included scene is needed

And it's also unfair for Samus. I don't mind the "not being able to change at will" thing other than the fact that I ALWAYS FREAKIN DITTO AND THAT ****S ME RIGHT UP!!! but I wouldn't doubt you can chose Zamus off the roster somehow. I like the idea of the stamina balancing the use and possibly the character himself for PT but what if Samus doesn't get the Smash Ball that battle? Then she's just overpowered for the whole thing? What if Samus is the intended weak end but she doesn't get one. Then she sucks? That's just a big joke (if it was intended to balance on the reliance of Smash Balls) but I think they'll be even characters (Samus and Zamus) and Samus players can just learn to use both either way.

I have no idea what this Gogetem thing is but ew...haha (below)
And what I said in the first place (Dyce original note) was that it would be lame to have a clone for everyone and they might as well just have different stats for altern costumes...
AKA: We'd all rather have Dedede and Sonic then have 5 versions of Mario...

Also...Her Zero Suit really should fall off good idea

Also...rAt...Are saying you would actually want Pika to suck cause he could get the Smash Ball easy??? And I thought you cared... haha
No, I really think Pikachu looks insanely good...well, they all do

 

[SiegK]

SO far we have what we have speculations aside, what stands now isnt what we all had in mind. But I guess we'll just have to see how it all unfolds.

 

[Ginger9001]

We still talking about smash balls? O.o

 

[Smashbro24]

someone cacth me up on what the topic is. somthing about smash balls?

 

[The rAt]

But by that logic, the faster the character, the worse a fighter they should be. I don't like that idea at all.

And if we're going to give suggestions as to which weapons should be removed... then I'd have to take out bob-ombs, as much as I love them. I don't know why, call my paranoid, but I think they have it out for me.

(Ice Climbers too... particularly Nana.)

~ X(

jerks

I was speaking more in terms of my experience with Melee. As a Pika user, I often end up on the wrong end of a bad matchup (both in terms of stages and characters). Random items can tip the scales just long enough for me to get back on the offensive again.
Maybe I'm a little biased, speaking partially in terms of my only tournament experience (either there just aren't tourneys in MN or I don't hear about them), a few years back in which I got screwed by a combination of a very skilled Samus player, an somewhat inept Roy player who did nothing but sneak in and do damage whenever one of us was distracted, and the Ice Climbers level, which I personally feel is one of the worst for Pika. A random item suchas a pokeball, or even an item in general, would have allowed me enough distraction to get in close to one or the other of them, or at least counter some of Samus' ranged attacks (he was fairly addept at using the unusual platform configuration to his advantage) and do some damage.

What I mean isn't that faster characters should be weaker to compensate for their ability to get ahold of items, what I'm saying is that most of the faster characters have disadvantages (weight, power, ect) that are often balanced by the ability to get and use items more quickly than other characters.

Personally, I'm all about balance. And if, in Brawl has indeed acheived a better level of balance than Melee, then I certainly wouldn't critique tournament players for turning them off (I don't now, either, I just don't enjoy the idea of it). But I've played Melee with items on, because I feel that the randomness levels the playing field, and I will probably play Brawl with items on (because some of these items look just plain fun), including Smash Balls.

But feel free to disagree, as I'm sure you will.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Somehow I KNEW you would mention the polar *****

Anywho. I really don't think Pika and Sonic and Fox are gonna be "purposefully" worse than Bowser and DK and Ike just because they expect us to use an item. So far each character looks much more balanced on their own then most would expect. I'm expecting a perfect game (balance wise) and i don't see any exceptions. And anything that may be out of place can easily be tampered with and fixed before it's too late. Sakurai did say they only appear once a match. Either way I don't see how that would be a "fair" thing. Some people would get p'oed because of them and noone would get p'oed without them. I think it's a reasonable choice to eliminate them for the oh so treasured "tourneys" on the comp scene.

Perhaps you're right, I haven't played a Brawl demo yet, so maybe Sakurai did a better job with balancing things. However, in terms of Smash Balls, I agree with what Dyce said about them being equally attainable by all characters. And it's not like they all entail instant KO's. Or you can't beat them out of people. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong (since, like I said, I'm going by word o mouth and vids rather than playing for myself), but a Smash Ball doesn't equal instant KO's for the rest of the players.

Also, let's face it, people will always find something to be po'ed about.

I personally like smash balls (and all items for that matter) but I do believe you can turn them off. Sakurai again said they were actually an item. And if in the previous two games we could turn them off and they indeed "Wow. I hate to admit it, but we thought of everything!" then I don't see why they wouldn't let us do that. Having one smashball a battle is like having one B-bomb or one Nana for one person at random. I own at Big Blue...but it's "unfair" for the most part. If there was a tourney with only Big Blue, I'd probably win every time...but that wouldn't prove anything cause it's really "unfair" It truely is a different game with the "unfair" factor but maybe for those who don't mind it, a Smash Ball Included scene is needed

Big Blue...

And it's also unfair for Samus. I don't mind the "not being able to change at will" thing other than the fact that I ALWAYS FREAKIN DITTO AND THAT ****S ME RIGHT UP!!! but I wouldn't doubt you can chose Zamus off the roster somehow. I like the idea of the stamina balancing the use and possibly the character himself for PT but what if Samus doesn't get the Smash Ball that battle? Then she's just overpowered for the whole thing? What if Samus is the intended weak end but she doesn't get one. Then she sucks? That's just a big joke (if it was intended to balance on the reliance of Smash Balls) but I think they'll be even characters (Samus and Zamus) and Samus players can just learn to use both either way.

Agreed. I never meant to say that Samus wasn't getting screwed. Actually, I meant to say that Samus was getting screwed. I was trying to show the logic behind why they made her that way, then show how that logic was dumb. I think you might be right about a way to access Zamus from the roster, though. Just seems logical.

I have no idea what this Gogetem thing is but ew...haha (below)
And what I said in the first place (Dyce original note) was that it would be lame to have a clone for everyone and they might as well just have different stats for altern costumes...
AKA: We'd all rather have Dedede and Sonic then have 5 versions of Mario...

What? You mean you don't want Dentist Mario, Janitor Mario, Pastry Chef Mario, Accountant Mario, and Evil Clone Mario?

Also...rAt...Are saying you would actually want Pika to suck cause he could get the Smash Ball easy??? And I thought you cared... haha
No, I really think Pikachu looks insanely good...well, they all do

I hope you're right. Makes me wish I coulda gotten down to E for All to try for myself. **** you California, for being so far away, and for having better weather, and more having movies made in your area, and eveything else I don't like about you!

Well, I feel better.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I was thinking about what I said before about Smash Balls being equally obtainable to each character... and I now I'm thinking that maybe Yoshi would have the easiest time breaking one.

I was trying to think of how Smashballs break, either by a certain amount of damage, or a certain amount of hits, and since Yoshi's dAir is one of the strongest drill attacks with the most range and duration, I feel Yoshi might have his bases covered on this one.

But at this point, it's purely a theory.

 

[SiegK]

I was trying to think of how Smashballs break, either by a certain amount of damage, or a certain amount of hits,

Its Damage over time, Smash Balls have a Stamina charge.

I wonder what % Stamina Smash Balls have. 30%? What do you guys guess?

 

[The rAt]

Its Damage over time, Smash Balls have a Stamina charge.

I wonder what % Stamina Smash Balls have. 30%? What do you guys guess?

I suppose without having played, I'm not qualified to comment, but 30% sounds like a reasonable number to me.

What I'm more curious about is what happens if you break a Smash Ball with a ranged attack. Do you get it? Does it just disappear? Does it go to the first person to make physical contact? Does it automatically go to Pikachu (hey, a guy can dream, right?)?

Stay tuned for these answers and more; same Sakurai time, same Sakurai website!

 

[friget234]

I think all the meleeers should be in tweek the clones make Dr. Mario Paper new moveset and BAAM that would work.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think now that we've had a "Returning Items" update and a "Returning Stages" update, we should get a "Returning Music" update, a "Returning Notices" update (???), and a "Returning Clones" update.

(Y'know, for all the ones that DID make the cut.)

 

[roy_owns]

I didn't really notice a difference in the new Temple Music to the old one but heres hoping for Big Blue!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think stages that are too complicated like Big Blue or Pokefloats probably won't make the cut. Maybe they'll be remade, redone, and remastered, but I doubt they'll come back and just eat memory.

 

[Boofer]

The only characters that should leave are Roy, Pichu, Young Link and Dr. Mario. Everyone else should stay, perhaps with a few move change-ups.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I think YLink, Roy, and maybe even Pichu (maybe) could make the return if luigified accordingly.

 

[SinisterLizard]

I think stages that are too complicated like Big Blue or Pokefloats probably won't make the cut. Maybe they'll be remade, redone, and remastered, but I doubt they'll come back and just eat memory.

What is your reasoning behind this? I see no reason why Brawl/the Wii couldn't handle running these stages...

 

[Dynamism]

It's not a matter of the Wii handling it but more so the time it would take to remake those as "exact replicas" like the Temple when they could just make an actual Brawl version. Also, a level like Big Blue probably wouldn't work in Brawl. Think about it...Bowser touches the ground but if you put this slower floaty roster on that fast moving stage, noone could keep up and get off the ground haha. The platforms would move around faster than people could jump

They can just re-make them accordingly.

Also...Luigi RULES!!!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

What is your reasoning behind this? I see no reason why Brawl/the Wii couldn't handle running these stages...

It could run these stages, but they're just so dern complicated and intriquite that they probably take up oodles of memory. I'm just saying it would be easier to add the less hectic stages that don't run on large tracks. Technically, you could call Hyrule Temple the largest stage in Melee, but look at the size of the track you have to run in Big Blue and Mute City. And look at all the floats in Pokefloats (though this one might be a lot easier to make room for.) Those stages must require a lot of memory to keep. I just feel that, especially since no one really liked them in favor of other stages, those stages are necessary to keep and not including them would make room for new stages or other, more popular classic stages.

Plus, not to say that the Wii couldn't handle it, I'm just saying that a Wii disk only has so much room.

 

[Ginger9001]

I think YLink, Roy, and maybe even Pichu (maybe) could make the return if luigified accordingly.

lol At first I didn't know what the hell you meant by Luigified but now I see what you meant. If they made them less similar to their counterpart by putting in different moves and stuff, right?

 

[SinisterLizard]

Plus, not to say that the Wii couldn't handle it, I'm just saying that a Wii disk only has so much room.

Just fyi, the Wii disk is about 3x bigger than a GC disk.

 

[Ginger9001]

Just fyi, the Wii disk is about 3x bigger than a GC disk.

lol Yeh. I think its kinda weird to say that it would take up too much memory when we don't really know how much it would really take up or really how much memory capacity the Wii can take. But I'm sure this game will try to bring it to its maximum.

 

[roy_owns]

I think YLink, Roy, and maybe even Pichu (maybe) could make the return if luigified accordingly.

I don't trust your sudden agreement Dyce. I'm sure you remember in April with are constant debating of weather Roy could make it and now your saying he could, did Nana make you say it?

 

[brawl_maniac]

I think YLink, Roy, and maybe even Pichu (maybe) could make the return if luigified accordingly.

i heard that none of them will make a return

 

[Ginger9001]

i heard that none of them will make a return

No.....really? xD