Official "Who is going to return?" topic

[SiegK]

I'm starting to like this guy.

Right back at ya,

Amen brotha! I'm actually rooting for all the underdogs. I'd like to see everyone return.

Thank you, bro.

The only case where a clone is played in almost the exact same fashion as its counterpart is Doctor Mario.

You have to admit that, SiegK. I mean c'mon.

I wont admit that. I am a pro Doc player and I know the extreme differences between the Mario and the Doc.

I do give it to you Dyce, They most the same in the ways that Move. How their frames are in order.

Totally.
-----------------------
But, Doc is a backwords, more heavy, and stronger Mario.

(If you a real smash player and use each character to the best of their ability)
You play these characters way different.

Their AAA combo is in different use, Doc's is way more smow and used to end a combo, where Mario's is really fast and normaly starts a combo.
Reason, because Doc's sends then flying and Mario's sends them nore into the air (Combo ready?)

Tilt Down A, again Mario uses this to initiate a combo by slightly sending them into the air at an angle where Doc's Down Tilt (depending on damage%) sends your opponent super far backwords in a fatigued state until ground contact.
Same Move, Same frame/graphics but totally different acts in play.

Down A in Air, Mario may use this in a short jump, attack repeat combo is a really good way to rack damage or a nice aerial spike. But on the other hand, Doc doesnt have a spike with that move, instead his attack will send your enemy really high into the air, doesnt matter if your opponent is in air or ground. Its a Strong killing move, unlike Mario's.
Same frames/graphics. Combo or Finisher? Take your pic.

These are all just small examples, there are many more.

But The Bigest difference I care about is the comparison of Fire Balls to Pills.

Fire Balls: Faster as a projectile but slower to send out, skip across the field, send more out to rack a bit of damage off but dont really stun your opponent.

Pills: Slower as a projectile but faster to send out, slower only because they jump higher into air and stall a bit more, more crowd control and longer stun, able to send pill and land attack (such as down Smash, I call my Pill into Down A trademark).

And Technique I use alot, that is not able/as smooth with Mario.

Pill Rush (trademark): Bombard the enemy with a wall of Pills exerted after a short jumped into a fast fall and at ground point. Repeat this three Pill fire sequence while approaching the opponent to render them almost stunned. This technique does not work as well for Mario, due to the Pills added weight and higher bounce.


I know differences in Clones. I Study this game.

Doc Needs to return.

 

[The rAt]

SeigK, I see your point, but I think it's important to look at things from a comparitive perspective, too. Here's how I look at it; if you compare a clone to its original counterpart, you're going to find differences (as you demonstrated). However, how do those differences compare to the differences you'd find comparing two non-clone characters?

I really think most people (well, except us Pichu haters) who argue against the clones, do so from a comparative perspective. That is, no matter how you slice it, not everyone from Melee is coming back. Something has to give. So it comes down to which characters have the most obvious notable similarities. And while Pika and Pichu (for example) are very different when compared to one another, they are very similar when compared to Link or Bowser or Mario. Therefore, they migrate to the bottom of the list.

The other thing to consider is that whatever is in Brawl arguably influences what isn't in Brawl. Ness was kept in Melee, and thus Lucas was left out. For each clone we keep, there is the potential of it beating out a character with a completely unique moveset. Or for that matter, a new clone, complete with a new take on an existing moveset.

And then there's the popularity issue, which I won't get into.

 

[Dynamism]

I think people just have different ideas on what "clone" means. haha

SiegK, you are missing the point here. The clones are all used differently, they're not exact clones. (That would be beyond pointless. Those are called alternate costumes ). I don't think anybody here uses the clone and the counterpart the same. That's just a given. You can do that list of Doc/M differences for any set of characters. That's exactly why they are clones and not ACs. I'm a ditto specialist and play at the highest level with every character (cause I have to). I wouldn't use a Doc in a Mario "DITTO" cause they are used completely different.

The point of "removing" or "changing" the clones is mearly for the sake of entertainement. Pichu is really cool (that's right I said it) and is really freakin good when handled accordingly (almost uncomparable to Pika), but that is no reason for him to stay. He is literally a lame addition with the lack of look/MS/and just the way he isn't really a massive part of Ninendo (smash). Same goes for Doc...and Roy was plenty important at the time...but now Micaiah is

I'm a pro Mario AND Doc player and I'm sure a few more people here are either/or too, so I see where you're coming from. I would be in much more support of Doc returning if he initially had different animations, (ex. His Fair wasn't a punch but more of the kick Mario had in ssb64) cause it's just better that way. You HAVE TO admit that it would much cooler
How about this:
If they take the statistics (trajectory/knockback/damage/range) of Doc "exactly" the way he was in melee (changed to Brawl formula) and gave them to Bowser Jr (fire balls=pills Wolf (plasmagrenades=pills) or someone else...would you be satisfied?

 

[Smashbro24]

i just thought of a good idea for the dojo(even this is the wrong thread) i bet all of the characters that are listed there will be playable when you first get the game, and then one of the last announcements will be there is like, 15 characters that you must unlock...(even though im probobaly wrong...)

 

[Ginger9001]

i just thought of a good idea for the dojo(even this is the wrong thread) i bet all of the characters that are listed there will be playable when you first get the game, and then one of the last announcements will be there is like, 15 characters that you must unlock...(even though im probobaly wrong...)

Eh. Makes sense. lol

 

[Dynamism]

That would be cool but I think they can just say Starters and leave some out. And they shouldn't give away the number of unlockables.

Smashbro24...there are Yoshi and Kirby in the Original "8" Or do you just not like them for some mean reason
Original six is hockey

 

[~GregDang!~]

I'm kinda worried bout Capt. Falcon right now no word of him............... just so far the Samurai Gorah AT

100th Post!!!! :D

 

[The rAt]

Lots of good things that would take too much space to quote.

Well put.

i just thought of a good idea for the dojo(even this is the wrong thread) i bet all of the characters that are listed there will be playable when you first get the game, and then one of the last announcements will be there is like, 15 characters that you must unlock...(even though im probobaly wrong...)

That sounds feasible. That's pretty similar to how it worked with Melee if I recall correctly. We got all of the starters before the game came out, then unlockables around the Japanese release date.

EDIT: CaptainLove911, I wouldn't worry about it, he's just late to the party because he crashed his racer.

 

[SiegK]

How about we bring back all Characters, clones too (because there are those out there who do find the differences az big part of the game), and add more characters.

I really dont see any reason to take out any characters.

If you dont like a character and you want them out, find you want them out. But you could also just choose not to play as them.
But if you do want to play as a character from Melee and they are taken out, well that really sucks.

imo, i dont see any Pros to taking out characters, I only see Cons.

(Not arguing against any other posts.)

And for those who said I was missing the point. I got my Point across for what I was trying to say.
So dont add to subject part of the topic I was discussing because for the part of Clones I was talking about, I said my due.
The add on that you said I was missing, I wasnt trying to talk about. So well duh it was missing.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I wouldn't mind having every character back. I was actually hoping for it.

But really, I just don't see the point of Doctor Mario being his own character. To me, besides the pills, he just CAN'T be different enough from Mario. He IS Mario. I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I can see everyone else being their own character excluding Doc.

 

[SiegK]

I wouldn't mind having every character back. I was actually hoping for it.

But really, I just don't see the point of Doctor Mario being his own character. To me, besides the pills, he just CAN'T be different enough from Mario. He IS Mario. I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I can see everyone else being their own character excluding Doc.

Alright Alright, I respect that.
Im not gunna start up again either, just gunna saw I know the Differences and feel stong about it. Cause, I am not as good with Mario next to my Doc and know why.

But...Lol. I mean, Mario hase been changed a bit. His Moves moved around.

So why dont they just bring back Doc from Melee. He would be his (or at least more of his own) character because he wouldnt be the same as the Brawl Mario.

Eh? Ehh? Haha.

 

[The rAt]

How about we bring back all Characters, clones too (because there are those out there who do find the differences az big part of the game), and add more characters.

I really dont see any reason to take out any characters.

If you dont like a character and you want them out, find you want them out. But you could also just choose not to play as them.
But if you do want to play as a character from Melee and they are taken out, well that really sucks.

imo, i dont see any Pros to taking out characters, I only see Cons.

(Not arguing against any other posts.)

And for those who said I was missing the point. I got my Point across for what I was trying to say.
So dont add to subject part of the topic I was discussing because for the part of Clones I was talking about, I said my due.
The add on that you said I was missing, I wasnt trying to talk about. So well duh it was missing.

You're right that it sucks for people who's favorite character is taken out. However, practically speaking, we don't really get to decide who's in or out, we can just make predictions. I've under the impression that Sakurai said quite some time ago that not all the characters from Melee would be returning. So, all of my thoughts/predictions/ect. are working from that assumption.

To be honest, I'm okay with that way of doing things, though. This may be an instance where we can't (to use a tired expression) have our cake and eat it, too. There is a limited ammount of time Sakurai can spend on making this game, and a limited ammount of content that can be in it, and I personally would rather give up a little bit of old content to get more new content. Not to say I'd like Sakurai to take a chainsaw to the character roster, but if we lose a clone or two to get something else in their place, then so be it. It just seems more practical than cutting a character with an original moveset, and I'd really prefer Brawl to be it's own entity rather than Melee +.

That's all my opinion, of course, and you are entitled to yours. Like I said before, all of the decisions are in Sakurai's hands, we're all just making predictions and blowing smoke about what we'd like, anyway.

EDIT: SeigK, in reference to your most recent post, his up + B could be the enima of doom.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Alright Alright, I respect that.
Im not gunna start up again either, just gunna saw I know the Differences and feel stong about it. Cause, I am not as good with Mario next to my Doc and know why.

But...Lol. I mean, Mario hase been changed a bit. His Moves moved around.

So why dont they just bring back Doc from Melee. He would be his (or at least more of his own) character because he wouldnt be the same as the Brawl Mario.

Eh? Ehh? Haha.

I'm not gonna start up again either... but here's my input.

The FLUDD and some pills are not enough stipulation for Brawl Mario and Melee Doc to be considered completely different.

Honestly though, can you think of anything Doc could do that Mario couldn't?
Like for his moves.
Special moves.

 

[roy_owns]

No Dr. Mario is Mario it's best for him to be an alternate costume.

 

[The rAt]

Honestly though, can you think of anything Doc could do that Mario couldn't?

Prescribe medication?

 

[SiegK]

The FLUDD and some pills are not enough stipulation for Brawl Mario and Melee Doc to be considered completely different.

Why not...?

No Dr. Mario is Mario it's best for him to be an alternate costume.

Oh no. After all this and you say that. Ill kill you, my friend.
Rofl.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Why not...?

Be-cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuz!

Prescribe medication?

I'm pretty sure doctors can prescribe medication when they're off the clock and kickin' a s s.

 

[Devastlian]

Ya, the whole clone thing is 100% aesthetic...it's kinda like the whole "OMG 2 MANY SORD USERZ I MITE CUT OFF MY WII WII LOLZ" argument. /sigh

Anyway, I wouldn't mind all of the characters returning. It's still pretty much guaranteed that a good majority of the characters will be different, though, so people that like a character because of gameplay reasons could still be disappointed.

 

[Dynamism]

Doc Mario is like cape Mario and Sunshine Mario...why don't just give Mario pills too so we can forget about it
I really would like every alternate costume to be somewhat of a smash "clone" instead of just a colour change. That's been brought up before and it could solve everyones issues. Like why can't Samus have a clone? She can have different projectile uses and play differently if they had Samus and Fusion Samus. It would be the same case as Mario and Doctor Mario. You could do that for everyone but it is an obvious decision if they're picking between Fusion and Zero Suite/Doc or Paper/Roy or Ike etc...
I would love to see them all return and hopefully they all will in some form or another, but I know they won't all be PCs. If anyone were to go, it wouldn't be Mewtwo so we could bring in Roy. Sure Doc is plenty different and you might be better with one or the other because of the differences but if the differences weren't there in the first place, it wouldn't matter if we had a Dedede in melee.
I feel sorry to see the likes of now veteran characters go...but it's for Diddy, PT and Sonics sake.
I guess that's the pro you were looking for...

Green Doc just perscribes disease

 

[The rAt]

Green Doc just perscribes disease

Yes, and Black Doc prescribes a choice between a red pill or a blue pill.

Spoiler

Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, watch the Matrix, then look at Doc's black costume.

 

[SiegK]

That that update sucked.

Cool that we got a Final Smash. But That Final SMash is so boring. Uugh....

 

[Dynamism]

he............is............so..............UGLY HAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHA

 

[Ginger9001]

That that update sucked.

Cool that we got a Final Smash. But That Final SMash is so boring. Uugh....

Indeed. I thought he already had a final smash. I really want all the stupid final smashes out of the way.

 

[Smashbro24]

seriously... its stinks....

 

[SiegK]

I hope Smash Ballz are Items that can be turned off. Cause, really. Final Smashes can really unbalance a match.
I Loved Smash Bros because there were no really big super special moves that can totally turn the game around.
I Liked it cause it was just awesome fighting and real skill was needed.
Melee was like "Oh **** im losing I really need to step it up"
But now with Final Smashes it like, "Oh **** im losing I need to use an auto win!"

Ive brought this up b4 and dont say "But its a new feture to the new game, adapt to it and use it well"
Whatever to that, I hope we can turn them off.

They Might be an Item. But I dont think so because if you can turn them off. How can you play as Zero Suit Samus?
And once you use a Smash Ball and Become ZSS, how can you change back? Is it when ZSS gets a Smash Ball and changes back?
Personaly, I think thats wack.

What say you guys?? o.o

 

[Ginger9001]

I hope Smash Ballz are Items that can be turned off. Cause, really. Final Smashes can really unbalance a match.
I Loved Smash Bros because there were no really big super special moves that can totally turn the game around.
I Liked it cause it was just awesome fighting and real skill was needed.
Melee was like "Oh **** im losing I really need to step it up"
But now with Final Smashes it like, "Oh **** im losing I need to use an auto win!"

Ive brought this up b4 and dont say "But its a new feture to the new game, adapt to it and use it well"
Whatever to that, I hope we can turn them off.

They Might be an Item. But I dont think so because if you can turn them off. How can you play as Zero Suit Samus?
And once you use a Smash Ball and Become ZSS, how can you change back? Is it when ZSS gets a Smash Ball and changes back?
Personaly, I think thats wack.

What say you guys?? o.o

That IS true. But I have a feeling that they might not be optional. And we really don't know how rare these Smash Balls are. They probably only come once a game. Who knows? But if it WAS optional I think it would also be kinda fun to turn everything else off and let smash balls rain from the heavens for everyone to massacre each other. lol

 

[Dynamism]

No smash balls. They're an item...just different. You can deffinately turn them off. And i hope Zamus can be used accordingly. I don't think they're stupid enough to piss us off that much

 

[Ginger9001]

No smash balls. They're an item...just different. You can deffinately turn them off. And i hope Zamus can be used accordingly. I don't think they're stupid enough to piss us off that much

Yes but wasn't there an item that you couldn't take off like a Starman or the hammer or something like that?

 

[SiegK]

No smash balls. They're an item...just different. You can deffinately turn them off. And i hope Zamus can be used accordingly. I don't think they're stupid enough to piss us off that much

Dont dude, you dont know that for sure. So dont give out Yes of No answers.
They actually might be that stupid cause if Zero Suit Saus isnt playable whenever you want. Im already pi**ed off my brother!

That IS true. But I have a feeling that they might not be optional. And we really don't know how rare these Smash Balls are. They probably only come once a game. Who knows? But if it WAS optional I think it would also be kinda fun to turn everything else off and let smash balls rain from the heavens for everyone to massacre each other. lol

Well They arnt that Rare. I for Super Sonic twice in a 2 Min Match at E for All, my friend was Link and he got one too.

Thats 3 Smash Balls in 2 Min. Thats ******** and can really F Up competitive for real Smash Players.

Yes but wasn't there an item that you couldn't take off like a Starman or the hammer or something like that?

In Melee and 64 you can take off All items.
But you cant take off any items when ur playing Adventure/Classic/All Star. (those are probly what ur thinking about)

 

[Ginger9001]

Dont dude, you dont know that for sure. So dont give out Yes of No answers.
They actually might be that stupid cause if Zero Suit Saus isnt playable whenever you want. Im already pi**ed off my brother!




Well They arnt that Rare. I for Super Sonic twice in a 2 Min Match at E for All, my friend was Link and he got one too.

Thats 3 Smash Balls in 2 Min. Thats ******** and can really F Up competitive for real Smash Players.

Daaaamn. That's not cool.

 

[Ginger9001]

Guess I was wrong then. xD But who knows?

 

[SiegK]

Yeah I know, huh? This might be the one thing about Brawl that ticks me off. And Even though I might not play as Zero Suit Samus, I love playing as Samus. (not my best, but shes fun)

And I would hate to have to change my character if I wanna do my Final Smash.

So for those players who will be good Samus Players and Not good Zero Suit Players are gunnd be screwed out of Final Smashes. AND THEY STILL HAVNT TOLD US HOW YOU CHANGE BACK!
Thats The Update I want!

I want an Update Saying,
"Well Smash Ballz are not Items! You can turn them off if you want, but I dont know why you would. Their so fun! *SiegK rolls his eyes*"
"And Zero Suit Samus becomes a Playable character from start menu once you unlock her by using a Smash Ball with Samus for the 1st time!"
"Also! You can change back to Vira Suit Samus in Battle by! (Some move she has changes her back, i dont know. Maybe one of her taunts)

That would make me happy.


WHOs WITH ME!?!?!?!?

 

[Ferret]

Yeah I know, huh? This might be the one thing about Brawl that ticks me off. And Even though I might not play as Zero Suit Samus, I love playing as Samus. (not my best, but shes fun)

And I would hate to have to change my character if I wanna do my Final Smash.

So for those players who will be good Samus Players and Not good Zero Suit Players are gunnd be screwed out of Final Smashes. AND THEY STILL HAVNT TOLD US HOW YOU CHANGE BACK!
Thats The Update I want!

I want an Update Saying,
"Well Smash Ballz are not Items! You can turn them off if you want, but I dont know why you would. Their so fun! *SiegK rolls his eyes*"
"And Zero Suit Samus becomes a Playable character from start menu once you unlock her by using a Smash Ball with Samus for the 1st time!"
"Also! You can change back to Vira Suit Samus in Battle by! (Some move she has changes her back, i dont know. Maybe one of her taunts)

That would make me happy.


WHOs WITH ME!?!?!?!?

Zamus does change back to Samus via smash ball.
Just wait a moment I'll search the video where I saw it.

 

[SiegK]

Zamus does change back to Samus via smash ball.
Just wait a moment I'll search the video where I saw it.

Thats what I thought. Thank you, sir.

But that still is pretty wack.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Doc Mario is like cape Mario and Sunshine Mario...why don't just give Mario pills too so we can forget about it
I really would like every alternate costume to be somewhat of a smash "clone" instead of just a colour change. That's been brought up before and it could solve everyones issues. Like why can't Samus have a clone? She can have different projectile uses and play differently if they had Samus and Fusion Samus. It would be the same case as Mario and Doctor Mario. You could do that for everyone but it is an obvious decision if they're picking between Fusion and Zero Suite/Doc or Paper/Roy or Ike etc...

If every character had an exact clone of themselves with different moves... then Brawl would just be DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 1.5

I don't think anyone wants that.

 

[Ferret]

Thats what I thought. Thank you, sir.

But that still is pretty wack.

Here it is. It' sa compilation of all FS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9Kbuj_Ybp0
You can see her change back at 0:51.

I really hope you can select her like Shiek in Melee in the final game :/

 

[Ginger9001]

If every character had an exact clone of themselves with different moves... then Brawl would just be DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 1.5

I don't think anyone wants that.

Ewwwww. xD

 

[SiegK]

If every character had an exact clone of themselves with different moves... then Brawl would just be DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 1.5

I don't think anyone wants that.

Dyce, dude. Shut up about the Clone thing. Lol. We covered that like SO MANY TIMES!

So.... She just becomes Vira Suit again and has pretty lights?

WACK. Samus Players got boned this time.

 

[Ginger9001]

Dyce, dude. Shut up about the Clone thing. Lol. We covered that like SO MANY TIMES!

So.... She just becomes Vira Suit again and has pretty lights?

WACK. Samus Players got boned this time.

Eh. Samus is DUPID anyways! >:0

J/K!

 

[Ferret]

Dyce, dude. Shut up about the Clone thing. Lol. We covered that like SO MANY TIMES!

So.... She just becomes Vira Suit again and has pretty lights?

WACK. Samus Players got boned this time.

And I've heard it does little damage if you're staying next to her, but I'm not sure.
Veeeery disappointing FS :/