Official Texas Power Rankings! - Updated June 15, 2012

[Xyro77]

Take mjg off the list too

 

[UTDZac]

So all oos count as 1600?

No, not always.

Yeah, how did Whobo 3 work?

Carefully. I gave the OoS players a set rating, partly based on their location and past tourneys... and partly based on what place that got at Whobo 3.

 

[z00ted]

partly based on what place that got at Whobo 3.

so because I knock the person that usually gets top 4 in tournaments into losers and his partner just so happens to meet him in losers and beats him.. I get punished for it?

sweet!

 

[UTDZac]

@Ill, I know nothing of the tournament. I wasn't there and didn't care about results. Can you give me specifics?

 

[z00ted]

It doesn't really matter.

All I'm saying is that I beat ESAM (who usually gets top 5 at nationals) and sent him into losers. Immediately after that he had to play his partner from Florida and ended up getting 17th at Whobo.

I basically got punished for beating him because he didn't perform well later (or at least as well as he usually does) at that specific tournament.

It's fine though. Although I appreciate the PR and how much you help the community out (even after retiring), I don't care much for it.

 

[Reizilla]

That's an obvious lie

 

[Nike.]

Lol yea, you've been the one begging Zac to update this more then anybody. Now you don't care for it?

 

[UTDZac]

@Ill, I guess you missed the first part of "how i handled oos players"

For Whobo 3, I gave Esam a rating of 1900.

 

[sheikamaru]

He doesn't care for it since he's where he wants to be now?

 

[Xyro77]

Illmatic, it's your fault for losing to his partner. If u r THAT good that u can beat esam then u should have beat his partner. But you didn't so it proves two things. 1, U ain't as good as u think you are and 2 your points reflect it. Zac system is the best we have had since brawl started. Just cause u think you should be higher(IMO you should be LOWER) doesnt mean this system is bad.

 

[z00ted]

Xyro, you don't even know what you are talking about and I'm about to give some reasoning as to why this system isn't as strong as I believe other systems could be.

 

[Xyro77]

I've been around the block a lot longer than you and I've seen all types of pr schemes. No other system is more accurate than a system that takes out the human(potential bias) factor which is exactly what zacs system does.

 

[Nike.]

Illmatic does deserve his spot though. He's beaten alot of the current top15 in tourney already.

 

[Espy Rose]

lol.
Always bet on the Peach.

=====

Pools at WHOBO3 didn't count, did they Zac?

 

[Reizilla]

This requires popcorn.

Predictions on Illmatic's reasoning:

"1) I should be higher
2) K Prime should be lower
3) Magik should be lower
4) I need more points
5) Everyone in Houston should be higher
6) Everyone not in Houston should be lower
7) Houston points should count triple OT championship sudden death style
8) Roy_R is still top 10"

a case like that just might convince me...

 

[UTDZac]

Pools at WHOBO3 didn't count, did they Zac?

No. I didn't get around to restructuring the code to handle pools.

 

[Xyro77]

Oh and qb, you are right. RoyR is still top 10.

 

[Nike.]

Sucks for Death Pool survivors (like me)

 

[Magik0722]

so will the rgv tournaments be added? preparing my trollface

 

[Reizilla]

Oh and qb, you are right. RoyR is still top 10.

I lost.

Sucks for Death Pool survivors (like me)

I lost again.

so will the rgv tournaments be added? preparing my trollface

Really lost.


But only high rollers is counting. The pool-style one doesn't count, apparently. Just remember everything from today's tourney so i can make a bracket.

 

[Psychoace]

Why was Columbus added but not Dallas?

 

[Magik0722]

which high rollers? was that the one at seths house?

 

[UTDZac]

Why was Columbus added but not Dallas?

Long story short: get me a tio file for dallas and I'll use it. (it's harder than it seems)

 

[Xyro77]

I have 50% of the mlg bracket done. Loser bracket is near impossible to do.

 

[Reizilla]

which high rollers? was that the one at seths house?

Yeah, the one at Seth's house.

 

[Psychoace]

Ah I see, lol.

Have you asked Pierce? He was reffing, maybe he at least knows something about it.

 

[gunterrsmash01]

Still better than Flip. and always will be

 

[z00ted]

That's an obvious lie

I wanted to see certain things.

Lol yea, you've been the one begging Zac to update this more then anybody. Now you don't care for it?

Exactly.

@Ill, I guess you missed the first part of "how i handled oos players"

For Whobo 3, I gave Esam a rating of 1900.

Alright

He doesn't care for it since he's where he wants to be now?

I'm going to be completely honest and say yeah you are right.. at least somewhat.
I waited to see how this PR would work after almost two whole months of updates, and it's exactly how I thought it would be.

Let me address just two things I don't like about it. If anyone's name so happens to pop up in here it doesn't mean I don't like you or anything it's just how I feel about this PR and you as a player, I guess.

1. It benefits players that don't live in a "stronger" city and hurts players that do.

This PR is based of the ELO Rating System, the same exact system the Allisbrawl ladder uses so trust me I know what I'm talking about. I played on wifi for around a year before I got into the offline scene and I know it like the back of my hand. I might be a bit hazy on my descriptions, but try to hear me out.

In the AllIsBrawl ladder rankings someone can accumulate points by "picking" whoever he wants to play. For example, let's say Thunderjolter342 has 1849 points - but Bananathrower666 has 2129 points.

If you don't want to play Bananatosser666 and lose points, you don't have to. You can continue playing players that are far worse than you and continue to accumulate points because your win ratio is in the higher percentile. Sure, every now and then you may accept a higher ranked player's request and lose - but it won't effect you as drastically as the person who is on the same level as you but wants to improve by losing to the high level player over and over again.

This may sound a bit confusing so let me try to explain a bit more closer.

There are 6 players in a city, each start at 1600 points and will develop their own rankings for themselves. Two are clear cut better than the rest, while the other 4 frequently exchange points within each other.

Player 1 is without a doubt the best in his city and beats all five players in one tournament. He gains 200 points, putting him at 1800.

Player 2 is the second best and beats Player 1 thirty percent of the time. At this tournament however, he places second and accumulates 150 points, putting him at 1750.

Player 3 gets 1700 points.

Player 4 gets 1620 points.

Player 5 gets 1590 points.

Player 6 gets 1580 points.

Over time, because player one consistently beats everyone in his city, he is able to rack up a ton of points. Player 2 does the same thing.

After 8 tournaments, Player 1 has 2000 points, Player 2 1848 points, 3 1700 points, rest do not really matter.

What matters is there is another city. This city is going under the same effect only that these players are much better than the other city but they don't hold as many tournaments.

___________________________________________________


Since I hope that you already understand what could happen, I will just give out their rankings after 4 tournaments instead of 8.

Player 1B has accumulated 1850 points in total.

Player 2B, 1700.

Player 3B, 1680.

Player 4B, 1640.

Player 5B, 1590.

Player 6B, 1580.

After some "heated" debate over which city is stronger, but decide to go to each other's to prove who is REALLY the best.

Player 1B clearly demonstrates he is the best player out of the two cities. He takes first and even player 2B outranks Player 1.

Because Player1B as well as Player 2B has beaten every other player in the opposing city he reaps in a benefit of rewards. But because he doesn't go to tournaments AS OFTEN as the opposing city, he isn't as high as them Therefore, when he gains points he is only SLIGHTLY above the best player in the other city.

Immediately after this tournament City 1 decides to hold even MORE tournaments so that the top two players can continue to hoard points off of their lower level players. Their lower level players went about even with the other city's lower level players so they have a decent amount of points. As long as City 1 keeps on beating them they will OUTRANK city 2 even if City 2 previously proved that they were the superior city.

City 1's lower ranked players (who could be even with City 2's average ranked players) also have to suffer because they are under the constant dominance of a higher skilled city. It's much harder for them to perform there compared to moving to City 2.

This is apparent throughout our PR System.

It may not look like it on the surface, but if you dwell a bit deeper you can see the obvious flaws.


K Prime is far too high because he gets to stay in SA and reap in rewards while other players that 9/10 OUTPLACE him when we go to both HIS CITY and when he comes to OURS stay low because they have harder competition.

K Prime isn't the only one.

Another fine example would be Dakpo. It would be ridiculous for him to travel all the way to Houston, SA, etc because he lives so far away. Therefore, (because he was a good player) he was able to develop himself under his own city. It's extremely flawed.

It works vice-versa too. Lower ranked players can suffer because their region is too hard when compared to another.

This PR system is stagnant and far too slow. We don't play players every week. At the best, most of us travel out of city once a month. Why should we have to suffer when we outplace the other city almost every time?

________________________________________

Xyro, you will probably bring up the "well look at me - I was F tier for frakin ever and now im C tier" but could you honestly sit there and tell me what you wouldn't be in B tier or maybe even A tier if you lived in another city?

The same goes for other players.

You don't have to be a good player to be ranked highly on this PR.

All you have to do is get the lead in your city and camp.

 

[Poltergust]

Heh, how did I move up? I like didn't do anything special these past two months. XD

 

[z00ted]

Heh, how did I move up? I like didn't do anything special these past two months. XD

Read my post, you will find out why.

 

[Reizilla]

So... you're saying Dakpo should be lower?

 

[Poltergust]

Read my post, you will find out why.

Er, which one?

 

[z00ted]

So... you're saying Dakpo should be lower?

I'm not saying Dakpo should be lower, you obviously didn't get the statement I was trying to get across.

Dakpo is an exception because he is a GOOD player. A bad player that is better than everyone in his city could just as easily reap in points as he did.

 

[Reizilla]

Well you should do a better job of speaking then. Why isn't Tyson (or whoever is second) also that high, just like Magik and K Prime?

 

[z00ted]

There hasn't been enough time yet and probably doesn't perform as well as Dakpo?

 

[Xyro77]

No system is perfect and your example are EASY to fix. You can't fix biased panelists and that's why we left that type of system.

 

[z00ted]

how is that EASY to fix? Please tell me a solution other than everyone travelling to a single city multiple times a month.

 

[UTDZac]

@Ill's big post.

First off, you're numbers are wrong. Please recall how the ELO system works. Points are exchanged, never gained or lost. So in your first example we see:

Player 1 1800
Player 2 1750
Player 3 1700
Player 4 1620
Player 5 1590
Player 6 1580

Since everyone started at 1600, P1 somehow gained 200 points, P2 150 points, and so on. There are WAY more points gained than loss. This does not show a balanced ELO system.

I ran the numbers using your second example: 6 players, 1 always wins, 1 always gets second, and the rest random, spaced out between 4 tournaments. Compare your numbers (unbalanced and not true ELO) with mine:

Best Player - 1720.85
2nd Best Player - 1596.81
Random C - 1589.50
Random D - 1577.68
Random A - 1577.43
Random B - 1548.36


Secondly, I have already addressed the issue regarding too many tournaments occurring in one city verses other cities. SA and RGV are prime examples. I have discovered a fix for this, but have been unable to implement it. I spent my time restructuring the code base and making it simple so that others can use my program. I will get to the issue of too many tourneys soon.


Anything else Illmatic?

 

[Reizilla]

Woah woah woah, RGV has fewer tournaments than any other region. Don't go making us look active, Zac.


Also, Ill, you can't go around running your mouth about problems without a solution. You have yet to provide a solution other than the suggestion of a panel, which, for everyone that's been here longer than you, knows is an even bigger problem. So, come back with a solution, or don't. Simple as that.

 

[Xyro77]

Using your example.....


If kprime is too high on the pr due to the amount of events in san Antonio then that means he's clearly not that good. So when he travels to Houston or Dallas(for example) he will be ***** by players who are better than him and thus he will not only lose points but he will lose MORE than he should because he's also higher than he should. That will bring him down and balance the list. Problem fixed.


Btw, this doesn't happen because your examples do not apply to kprime. His spot on the pr is more or less correct.