Official SWF Matchup Chart v3.0

[Sunnysunny]

I'm not sure how good Takedown is as a player, but this sexy Wolf comeback is relevant.

http://youtu.be/uUFujm_g-tw?t=19m26s

 

[infiniteV115]

Snakes beats Ness and Luigi solidly, dunno about the Wolf MU but it's probably like +1 for Snake

I know Shaky has beaten MVD at least once with Ness, there may be more occurences of this of which I'm not aware, but now he opts for ZSS against MVD. I've never seen him play another Snake except for Salem's at SKTAR 2, and Shaky won that too...but I mean lol how much Snake:Ness exp does Salem have XD

Back when FOW was still playing Ness, he opted for MK against Snakes and Marths (hint hint cough cough)

Seagull beat Kuroobi at Apex 2013 but I mean it's only one set and how much exp does Kuroobi have in this MU...I'm not even sure if the japanese version of Brawl has Wolf in it

Dunno of any other Wolf players ever playing this MU

No Luigi player has ever done anything, except for Luigi Player and that one time Mr.ConCon beat DEHF's Falco

I'm not sure how good Takedown is as a player, but this sexy Wolf comeback is relevant.

http://youtu.be/uUFujm_g-tw?t=19m26s

He's apparently so insignificant and forgettable that between the time you found the video and copy pasted it into this post, you forgot that his tag was Takeover. Case closed.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

No Luigi player has ever done anything, except for Luigi Player and that one time Mr.ConCon beat DEHF's Falco

I thought Luigi Player used Diddy Kong? Can't prove it though cuz his name makes it impossible to find videos of him

Also you forgot Boss you scrub

 

[infiniteV115]

Friendlies in 2009? No thanks.
And yeah Luigi Player doesn't play Luigi (at least, not now. Maybe he did at some point). He plays Diddy and some Donkey Kong

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taRSEKYJa60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQhjTFf6pKI

Boss best Luigi man. Can't deny it.

 

[Seagull Joe]

loses to -1.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Did Seagull, Kain, Shaky and FOW beat any good Snakes?

I was going to respond, but I was ninja'd.

 

[Thor]

No Luigi player has ever done anything

I mean, it's not versus Snake, but I'd think this sort of counts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyLiroZcro

Yeah he loses, but that first match...

 

[1PokeMastr]

Yeah he loses though.

 

[Man Li Gi]

How cute, your post count matches your join year. Anyway, Luigi should be able to take DDK on BF and Frigate, anywhere else is in favor of DDK.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I mean, it's not versus Snake, but I'd think this sort of counts...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyLiroZcro

Yeah he loses, but that first match...

That was just ADHD disrespecting weegee game 1 probably due to either lack of experience or not expecting weegee to be able to do anything. Then after he realized weegee has options, he actually gave weegee respect and wrecked him. All Im seeing is a top level player letting his guard down game 1 then destroying him after he loses the first game.

 

[Sunnysunny]

He's apparently so insignificant and forgettable that between the time you found the video and copy pasted it into this post, you forgot that his tag was Takeover. Case closed.

Bull ****!
I forget everything!

 

[Luco]

Snakes beats Ness and Luigi solidly, dunno about the Wolf MU but it's probably like +1 for Snake

I know Shaky has beaten MVD at least once with Ness, there may be more occurences of this of which I'm not aware, but now he opts for ZSS against MVD. I've never seen him play another Snake except for Salem's at SKTAR 2, and Shaky won that too...but I mean lol how much Snake:Ness exp does Salem have XD

Back when FOW was still playing Ness, he opted for MK against Snakes and Marths (hint hint cough cough)

Hm, yeah, I agree with that. I think the Snake - Ness MU should probably stay where it is at -2 for now. That said, i'd still pick Ness against a Snake rather than switching to a better counter, I suspect FOW's eventual switch to Mk as his main has more to do with that on his end. I remember stating this several months ago, but for a low tier player anything -2 or better is a 'meh' MU. As in, there are disadvantages but generally they're not crippling and, at least in my case the better player tends to come out on top.

That said, I can still kinda see justification for a different pick at top level play, so I wouldn't discount the FOW theory as evidence for that just yet. Top level players, after all, are expected to be able to know their advantages over certain characters.

Oh right!

Hey guys, been a while.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Back when FOW was still playing Ness, he opted for MK against Snakes and Marths (hint hint cough cough)

Yet still won against Snakes(there was a specific match that he even PK Fire Stomped one, but the name escapes meat the moment) match and MKs (I know he went Ness against Tyrant) with Ness. Sadly FOW realized the power of money and became a MK

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't think I ever said anything about Ness vs MK lol, I think that MU is -1 for Ness or maybe a slight -2. Not something I'd consider bad enough for a Ness main to want to pick up another character to deal with that MU, unlike Marth/Snake/DDD/DK.

I've never seen him go Ness against Snake, but I imagine that if he did, it was either a player with whom he thought the skill difference was big enough for him to safely go Ness, and/or he thought the Snake just had no idea how to play that MU

Or maybe it was before he started going MK against Snakes lol. If you can find the vid please show me cause it sounds interesting

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Are there even any Snakes over on the WC? Ireland status.

 

[Man Li Gi]

I don't think I ever said anything about Ness vs MK lol, I think that MU is -1 for Ness or maybe a slight -2. Not something I'd consider bad enough for a Ness main to want to pick up another character to deal with that MU, unlike Marth/Snake/DDD/DK.

I've never seen him go Ness against Snake, but I imagine that if he did, it was either a player with whom he thought the skill difference was big enough for him to safely go Ness, and/or he thought the Snake just had no idea how to play that MU

Or maybe it was before he started going MK against Snakes lol. If you can find the vid please show me cause it sounds interesting

The MK statement was in case you were going to say MK is free on Ness. Anyway this vid is from 4-5 ago at this point (hard to find), but here it is.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

OMG IT'S DIESUPERFLY

Lol@using2009vidstoproveapoint.

 

[Man Li Gi]

OMG IT'S DIESUPERFLY

Lol@using2009vidstoproveapoint.

Hence why I even said it's from 4-5 years ago at this point >_>. I watched it last 2010 (one of the reasons why I started to play Brawl competitively).

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Hence why I even said it's from 4-5 years ago at this point >_>. I watched it last 2010 (one of the reasons why I started to play Brawl competitively).

Why bother bringing it up if it's that old?

Like, seriously.

 

[Man Li Gi]

That was one of the few SnakevFOW vids.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

That was one of the few SnakevFOW vids.

That fact does not help your argument.

 

[Man Li Gi]

My argument was Ness CAN beat Snake, especially if Snake is airborne for a short while. Now FOW and Shaky are the few pro Ness players to exist. We already know Shaky has beaten MVD (possibly more, but who knows). As stated by yourself, LV (where FOW is from) and WC in general lacks many Snakes. I brought up the few (if not only) FOW v Snake vid. Considering FOW stopped playing Ness in 2012, a vid with Snake and his Ness are even harder to find.

 

[infiniteV115]

My argument was Ness CAN beat Snake

I don't think this needs to be said lol. Did anyone say it was an impossible MU?

 

[Luco]

Yet still won against Snakes(there was a specific match that he even PK Fire Stomped one, but the name escapes meat the moment) match and MKs (I know he went Ness against Tyrant) with Ness. Sadly FOW realized the power of money and became a MK

Money isn't as powerful in this community as I think you believe it is, though.

In Brawl, our biggest tournament offers several thousand dollars to its winner. For someone like me, that covers my airfare there and back and the stay time with a little bit to go into my pocket for spending. With brawl I suspect it's mostly a love of playing the game competitively and trying to see how you match up against others. We have a long way to go as a community before any smash game becomes the next DOTA in terms of average prize payouts. :/

As for MK, Ness is one of the better LT characters that can actually go against him. Dunno why he's being brought up at this point in time.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Money isn't as powerful in this community as I think you believe it is, though.

In Brawl, our biggest tournament offers several thousand dollars to its winner. For someone like me, that covers my airfare there and back and the stay time with a little bit to go into my pocket for spending. With brawl I suspect it's mostly a love of playing the game competitively and trying to see how you match up against others. We have a long way to go as a community before any smash game becomes the next DOTA in terms of average prize payouts. :/

As for MK, Ness is one of the better LT characters that can actually go against him. Dunno why he's being brought up at this point in time.

While it's true that Brawl's payout isn't as high as LOL, DOTA, and other MMORPGs, M2K cites it as the only reason he keeps playing Brawl. That may not be true for most players, but it may explain the switch in some people's mains (Nakat to ICs, Vinnie to ICs). Ness stands at a -2 against MK. Many in the same tier as him has a -2 MU against MK.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ness vs. MK is definitely not -1 LOL

gets CG'd across the stage, gets GR > dsmash'd, gets walled out by GSL, loses on a basic tool-for-tool risk/reward level

 

[Luco]

No-one said it was.... yet.

In truth I think one day it would have the potential to change to a -1 but the world isn't ready for that yet.

But legit there was a huge debate about it a while back. Aside from the fact that I got wrecked vs. like all our half-way decent MKs, I believe Ness has the tools to make MK consider himself in the MU and can effectively keep himself at a safer position than several others in regards to particular punishments. That said, he has issues offstage (top players don't seem to have this problem quite as much though) and the CG is a big deal. So yeah, it's probably a -2 at this point in time. Personally I tend to have trouble with MK but I believe my spacing in this MU has yet to be improved, both in air and on ground.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't think I ever said anything about Ness vs MK lol, I think that MU is -1 for Ness or maybe a slight -2. Not something I'd consider bad enough for a Ness main to want to pick up another character to deal with that MU, unlike Marth/Snake/DDD/DK.

and whatever ness can do to improve his chances in the match-up, mk can do back to him twice as hard tbh

 

[Luco]

and whatever ness can do to improve his chances in the match-up, mk can do back to him twice as hard tbh

Oh right, he did indeed say that.

Fair spacing and OoS Nair are reasonably good options. MK can punish him when he gets in, it's just we established a long time ago that Ness is one of the few characters that can punish or at least keep MK out if he makes the wrong choice when deciding to approach.

I dunno, it's been a while since i've been here, that viewpoint and the meta behind it could have changed.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I don't think that view point has been valid for a long time

almost every character has advanced their meta knight MU metagame to the point where they can punish his mistakes, that's not really the issue

the issue is the strength of those punishes and actually putting MK into a situation where he feels pressured, which ness isn't too good at

but don't let it get you down, match-up ratios don't mean as much as people think they do

 

[Luco]

Haha, alright then, I just wasn't aware that had changed.

 

[Man Li Gi]

"In videogames like SSB, OP is practicly non-existant. You could put Gannaondorf against Olimar and still have a fair fight. Because it's a videogame."
This is one of the quotes found on a SSBB vid (don't ask me which one it was as there are many times I take quotes from vids, store it and then do future pondering, not only for SSB vids). Now I have had time to ponder the deep message, I believe the community needs to reach more outwardly to casual as many are still under the impression that Pit is OP and MK is banned everywhere still. If we want our community to grow, we must educate the casuals or be obnoxious/entertaining/hype like our elder brethren's fanbase. If you ask why I posted this here, it's because it claims the Oli v Ganon is even.

 

[PKBeam]

"I think Ike should of been in the B group because its a heavy waited character and he is the highest hitter. I also think he should be in the B because he has a amazing recovery attack that jumps higher then better much every character.

I also disagree with the fact that Zero Suit Samaus is number 8. Its just not right because she has a terrible recovery attack ,her combos are terrible , She can get get nocked out in at a really low number and her attacks don't do much . The only good one is her Fire Ball ATTACK it can only do like 18% to 10%. So I think Zero Suit Samaus is ranked number 36."

This comment had 2 likes.
So I posted a 63-line response.

Pit is OP

Actually the main culprits are Ike and Kirby.

 

[Man Li Gi]

"I think Ike should of been in the B group because its a heavy waited character and he is the highest hitter. I also think he should be in the B because he has a amazing recovery attack that jumps higher then better much every character.

I also disagree with the fact that Zero Suit Samaus is number 8. Its just not right because she has a terrible recovery attack ,her combos are terrible , She can get get nocked out in at a really low number and her attacks don't do much . The only good one is her Fire Ball ATTACK it can only do like 18% to 10%. So I think Zero Suit Samaus is ranked number 36."

This comment had 2 likes.
So I posted a 63-line response.


Actually the main culprits are Ike and Kirby.

Ah, the infamous "IkE is 2 GuD" syndrome. While I agree that people still think Ike and Kirby is OP, I've seen countless videos dedicated to saying Pit is OP AF and ROB is cheap and other nonsense. Unless the comment is unreasonably bad, I don't respond because even when you present someone with facts, opionions and other BS still blur their image. Since it has been 6 years though, educating people would not be that bad.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

to be fair, ROB is pretty cheap

he essentially plays himself, it's so easy

 

[PKBeam]

Go here and scroll down the comments if you are resistant to ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REqrJe_YCl4

 

[Luco]

Hehehe, you've responded to like everything in there.

 

[Man Li Gi]

Well, there is just too much stupidity on Youtube.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Well, there is just too much stupidity everywhere.

Both fixed it for you and gave my reasoning to why we dont go so out of the way to educate casuals.

To expand on that slightly though, instead of trying to tell casuals why things are the way they are and why theyre wrong, you should be trying to get them to go attend events and such, and in time if they like it and have good experiences theyll start to figure it all out and actually understand and listen to what youre telling them. Those who dont want to participate and just stay casual will never fully understand no matter what you do and what evidence or whatever you throw at them, but thats okay since they can play the game and whatever however they like.