Official OFFICIAL SUPER-WAVEDASH DISCUSSION! Please Read and Post Here!

[AntoPark]

Hey guys, how do you do the reverse SWD from the ledge like in Perfect Control 2?
I tried reading about the SDDSWD but it doesn't seem to be helping. D:

 

[Geist]

Hmm. I watched it, not sure what you're talking about. Alot of it is early SWDs, which are inputting lefts and right a few frames too early, then doing swd anyways. I'm almost certain that that's humanly impossible.
But I don't know if you're asking just how to SWD from a ledge, which is also stupidly hard, but should have the same timing as a normal SWD, just with a few other commands beforehand.

 

[Corigames]

There is a video online of a Roy wavedashing on PS. Pretty funny.

 

[AntoPark]

Hmm. I watched it, not sure what you're talking about. Alot of it is early SWDs, which are inputting lefts and right a few frames too early, then doing swd anyways. I'm almost certain that that's humanly impossible.
But I don't know if you're asking just how to SWD from a ledge, which is also stupidly hard, but should have the same timing as a normal SWD, just with a few other commands beforehand.

So how do you swd from the ledge? O:
edit: like to jump off with a furious force. :D

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

you have to do the same thing, except you have to do:

away, towards, away

i think it's something like frames 41, 42, 43

 

[bubbaking]

I wanna revive this thread. Is the swd viable in today's metagame? How have things changed?

 

[Corigames]

Personally, I think it's viable to use as anything else is, but you have to be able to do it consistently enough to actually benefit from attempting it. When you are working on other, more directly benefiting techs, I can see why this one may not be high on the list. It's all about risk and reward, and, when you can't do the move due to lag differences in TVs, it makes the risk outweigh the reward even more.

So I think you could use it, but you have to be able to perform it every time you need to.

 

[bubbaking]

I see. Thanks for the info!

 

[Corigames]

Have you watch old videos of Phanna playing? If you're looking for a play style that incorporates the SWD into common use, I'd suggest looking him up on Youtube. I don't think he ever broke into OMG-TOP-TIER-PRO-LEAGUE-SUPER-AWESOME-FUN-TIME, but it would be a starting platform to build off of.

 

[Pi]

unfortunately, even the different makes and models of tv can throw off your already frame specific timing on SWD

there was a time, when i was somewhat consistent with it, i may start to practice it again since i've found renewed faith in learning difficult tasks (ie, i will become consistent with SHFFM)

but with things like a 1 frame, no visual or audio cue, move, i have little hope that you can effectively use it in high risk high reward situations with any type of positive ratio.

 

[Corigames]

If you were to practice it purely based off of muscle timing and not based off of audio/visual cues, you might be able to consistently use it despite lag differences. How you go about doing that is a different story. That, or you could ask to check your controls before playing each tournament match to get a feel for the TV. Most people don't mind someone warming up on a TV before a round starts; heck, I've seen players play a practice game against each other before doing the ones that count (TO's may disapprove due to time constraints though, but **** 'em).

 

[Ørn]

I think I managed to edgeguard someone on the opposite side of Dreamland once thanks to a SWD. I think I also managed to sneak in a downsmash while SWD'ing in a teams match once which was pretty cool.

I can do it fairly consistently, but it's for the most part pretty useless. It is somewhat decent for wasting your opponent's invincibility frames between stocks though, especially if your opponent knows you're capable of SWDing. If you see your opponent standing a good distance away from you trying to anticipate it, simply don't SWD.

 

[Master Ppv]

Learning it from muscle memory does indeed eliminate that problem; I actually learned SHFFLing through muscle memory and it has helped a lot because I don't get thrown off by most TVs, or at least take less time than average to get used to a new one. As for the actual usefulness of it, as you can see from all of these posts, it varies from person to person. It is as useful as you make it, just like anything else.

 

[Corigames]

The problem is that there is a 42 frame gap between pressing Down B and pressing Left to Right/Right to Left with a 1 frame window of opportunity to actually pull it off. The relatively long pause is what makes the timing of it so difficult to train to muscle memory, and the extremely small window makes the move difficult to pull off. It's a bit more special than learning how to properly short hop, aerial, fast fall, l-cancel, which is pretty much one continuous string of inputs.
Secondly, dropping the bomb and having a half of a second before the SWD even goes into affect gives a huge telegraph of what you will be doing.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, about audio/visual cues. I have a friend who can do the SWD successfully about 50% of the time and he told me he uses a visual cue. Most ppl say the actions should be performed right when Samus's morph ball hits the ground, but he simply watches the lights of the bomb as they flash red and yellow. I think he said that when the light is red (after a certain number of color repetitions), he inputs the commands right when it changes to yellow. Of course, i may have gotten my colors mixed up, but that's the gist of what he said.

 

[MonkUnit]

I try to do the swd off of the bombdrop noise.

 

[bubbaking]

I think I managed to edgeguard someone on the opposite side of Dreamland once thanks to a SWD. I think I also managed to sneak in a downsmash while SWD'ing in a teams match once which was pretty cool.

I can do it fairly consistently, but it's for the most part pretty useless. It is somewhat decent for wasting your opponent's invincibility frames between stocks though, especially if your opponent knows you're capable of SWDing. If you see your opponent standing a good distance away from you trying to anticipate it, simply don't SWD.

I've also seen some combo vids where Samus would SWD offstage backwards in order to hit opponents hanging on the ledge w/ a charged shot. @_@

Secondly, dropping the bomb and having a half of a second before the SWD even goes into affect gives a huge telegraph of what you will be doing.

Well, the time between the bomb and the SWD is pretty close to the time between two consecutive bombs. For all your opponent knows, you could be trying to bomb jump MC or something along those lines. My friend usually tries to lay a couple of consecutive bombs with no hesitation before the SWD to mask his true intent.

 

[Pluplue]

If they see you bombing and you aren't close to them I'm PRETTY SURE that they think you're super wavedashing

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Hence why you only (should) do it in a situation where:
1. They can't do anything about it, e.g. when they're recovering.
2. You wouldn't otherwise be able to punish or accomplish anything.

So really it's only the right option for cross stage edgeguards that need to happen immediately or not at all.

 

[Violence]

Agreed. I was playing friendlies at 3 in the morning with Lovage, he was pretty exhausted, post tournament, couldn't even play spacies because his thumb hurt, so I'm playing his Falcon.

I kill him, charge a shot, do an attempted swd for the fun of it, it succeeds, I get kneed. He denies that it was on reaction, but a part of me wants to believe that it was. Oscar2good.

There's no risk to throwing out a quick aerial to hit someone SWDing, and that's one of the reasons why it's so terrible. Bomb jump to Missile is insanely slow and won't punish an aerial done just in case. There aren't any good mixups.

 

[bubbaking]

If they see you bombing and you aren't close to them I'm PRETTY SURE that they think you're super wavedashing

Well, that's why I said you could mix it up w/ bomb jumps to MC (MC = Missile Cancel) since that can also occur far away from the opponent.

Violence makes two excellent points. However, couldn't Samus perform an aerial or various other attack of her own while SWD'ing?

 

[Pi]

ur best bet in that case is to short the SWD in many various ways, another bomb, walk, crouch, wavedash, etc

 

[bubbaking]

Alright, so let's begin another discussion:
Pretend for a moment that the SWD was not so difficult to do. Since there are other things Samus can do after a SWD other than bomb, wouldn't it be possible to add applications for this technique to her (already large) arsenal?

Edit: And if so, what?

 

[Pi]

i was trying for a while last night to shffm -> swd follow up

but alas it takes a very long time and the oponent is out of hitstun by the time i execute the swd

it's an interesting movement tool for mixups if ur opponent is already being pressured by missiles or something

or lets say peach is accross the map pulling turnips or w/e, you can get in their face quickly (accross the map)

but may only work once or twice before they stop getting surprised by it

primarily the things listed by spaceballs are what it's most useful for

 

[bubbaking]

I'm guessing there's a post enclosing the 'things listed by spaceballs'. Could you provide a link? Thanks a lot!

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

My post from like 50 minutes before his.

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, THAT one...

 

[Pi]

yea sorry it's not more expansive, but swd is...a pipe dream lol

 

[Violence]

Except in doubles.

I think it's a very legitimate and powerful tool in doubles.

 

[bubbaking]

Yeah, it would probably allow Samus to help out her teammate a whole lot faster than she does already.

 

[Master Ppv]

True, SWD in doubles is waaayyyy more useful and viable of an option than in singles for sure.

 

[bubbaking]

When Samus SWD's off the stage, does she maintain her speed? Also, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Samus can SWD in the air... o_O

 

[Violence]

1. Not really, no.

2. Well....... technically yes, but practically, no. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9sa8133NBI#t=2m46s

 

[bubbaking]

.............what the heck?!?!? How did that Samus do some of that stuff, even if it was TAS? Some of those things simply didn't seem possible... O_o

 

[Pi]

^they're possible
me and plup were fooling around in debug menu and getting off the stage SWD's lol
we couldn't pinpoint exactly how we were able to do them, but it involved like 3 or 4 or more frame perfect inputs properly spaced and timed on the edge

 

[bubbaking]

So basically, you could super dash dance? XD

 

[Pi]

yup lol

samus for most techy char imo.

 

[bubbaking]

Lolz, imagine if ppl could actually do this. I'm guessing that even if we wanted to, our thumbs couldn't move fast enough, not while moving the stick intelligently....

 

[iRobinhoood]

Most consecutive SWD's anyone?

4

 

[GunPunch]

I got 4 consecutive today, in practice with no opponent (i'm guessing that's what u mean). During actually match play, i probly have got 2 "consecutively". i'm going to try to get 5 tmrw. my ultimate goal would be 10, which would be awesome! i probly looked like a four year-old at christmas when i got the 4 in a row.