Official Stage Legality Discussion

[Charizard92]

if you can't find them, find them!

 

[x After Dawn x]

Rumble Falls was always that one stage that always stuck out to me when I would read the "Banned" list. It's not that bad...is it? I mean, if you're at a level of tournament play, you're going to have to require the skills to not run into those spikes and to catch up with the pace. And even if you do hit the spike, it's not always a OHKO. You could just tap L right before you hit it to tech the ground / small wall that you hit nearby. In my opinion, Norfair is worse and if RF is banned, maybe Norfair should be banned as well. I'd definitely like to see some numbers on how many players would SD because of the stage in tournament play.

 

[Charizard92]

Lets not forget the funneling effects. Oh wait, this is my chance to ban Norfair, I agree with you after Dawn, If Rumble Falls is banned, Norfair is banned too.

 

[AlexX]

A: rumble falls does have walk offs

No, it doesn't. It LOOKS like it does, but it doesn't.

B: Walk offs, no matter how long they last, will increase the ability to KO someone, due to the close proximity to the boundary

Even if there were walk-offs, the fact the stage moves means that if you tried to camp near one, the stage would leave him behind.

C: While the spikes are avoidable, any cheap throw or hit into any spike can spell hurt, and the first spike can spell cheap KO

To be cheaply thrown into one requires you forgetting where they are, and even if you are unlucky enough to forget and be knocked into it, it would seem you can tech the walls/floor.

D: We hate it for good reason

Icicle Mountain was hated for good reason, but Rumble Falls is nothing like it.

 

[Oracle]

Kenji's actually right, the seemingly walk off edges have cliffs off of the screen. But lets not forget the scrolling, hazards, and walls.


----------------
Now playing: Rhapsody - Land of Immortals
via FoxyTunes

 

[Blackbelt]

I could picture Rumble Falls being a CP. I mean, it's not that bad.


I personally prefer it to Rainbow Cruise, anyway.

 

[MysticKenji]

I just went and checked...and as far as I can tell there's only 2 walk-off platforms on Rumble Falls.

So, it's not an issue.

 

[AlexX]

Kenji's actually right, the seemingly walk off edges have cliffs off of the screen. But lets not forget the scrolling, hazards, and walls.

Walls are only there a short time, and attempting wall infinites is too dangerous since the stage will leave you behind.

The spikes we've already dealt with, and I really think people overrate how much scrolling matters. After all, Rainbow Cruise has scrolling, walls, and walk-off edges, but it's borderline random in Melee (and nobody seems to think it deserves a ban this time around, either).

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

So we're actually going to be able to listen to Bramble Blast?

 

[Guilhe]

Rumble Falls for COUNTERPICK

No, Bramble blast is broken. I have heard a lot of times that Rumble Falls should be banned because the player focus is to not be left behind, that is not true as scrolling is easy for slower characters even with the speed increases. So the focus still is at engaging the adversary while exploring the stage peculiarities for advantages in combat. Rumble Falls is a nice counterpick against characters that tend to camp a lot thanks to its scrolling nature and its layout with a lot of platforms. By the other hand, the stage does influence a lot in combat, so this stage is far from being neutral.

 

[x After Dawn x]

I honestly don't understand how a song can be broken, but you make a good point about the stage. The stage slightly favors vertical killers, which gives a nice advantage for characters like Fox and possibly even Jigglypuff (rest).

 

[Mic_128]

I honestly don't understand how a song can be broken

It was a joke.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I think Rumble Falls should be banned. Those spikes almost always lead to death off the side of the screen, and even if you know where they are, I do, if you are jumping to avoid an attack, you can hit them and cause yourself to die, which is frustrating if you are winning a match.

 

[AlexX]

I think Rumble Falls should be banned. Those spikes almost always lead to death off the side of the screen, and even if you know where they are, I do, if you are jumping to avoid an attack, you can hit them and cause yourself to die, which is frustrating if you are winning a match.

Not to be rude, but you shouldn't be jumping up and hitting them accidentally if you know where they are.

 

[x After Dawn x]

I think Rumble Falls should be banned. Those spikes almost always lead to death off the side of the screen, and even if you know where they are, I do, if you are jumping to avoid an attack, you can hit them and cause yourself to die, which is frustrating if you are winning a match.

Just tech whatever you land before you hit the spike. The stage is entirely familiar and easy to memorize, so tournament players can easily remember and memorize where the spikes are. Poke Floats was harder to memorize and it was still a counterpick.

It was a joke.

I know, I know.

 

[Guilhe]

In respect to all Jigglypuff mainers out there, Rumble Falls for COUNTERPICK.

 

[Loyal2NES]

****.

I always hoped Norfair would be CP. It's a fun stage, throws some variety into the mix but isn't unpredictable about it...

But then I saw that stalling video. I just don't know what to say anymore.

 

[MysticKenji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ajJWDpR-6Q
Rumble Falls gameplay

 

[Charizard92]

I saw the begining of the video, and both of the participants are idiots. Ivysaur could have easily sent Ike upwards, and into the spike, and got a cheap KO. I know, I do that all the time to Cpus.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

I saw the begining of the video, and both of the participants are idiots. Ivysaur could have easily sent Ike upwards, and into the spike, and got a cheap KO. I know, I do that all the time to Cpus.

CPUs are VERY predictible,try that on a human and youll definately get diffrent results,sadly the video wont upload for me so ill look at it later

 

[Charizard92]

I know, but still, a good opponent will actually TRY to get the opponent to hit the spike/into the close boundary. You always know where the boundaries are because the stage's camera is always fixed, not to mention the fact that the people in the video are complete noobs/morons.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

I honestly don't understand how a song can be broken, but you make a good point about the stage. The stage slightly favors vertical killers, which gives a nice advantage for characters like Fox and possibly even Jigglypuff (rest).

it doesn't matter if it gives an advantage! thats called a cp

 

[Charizard92]

OK, in training, I tried to chaingrab someone off Rumble falls with Dedede (test subject was DK). True, there aren't as many walk-offs as they seem, false, Dedede can still go from 0 to KO there, just with a different throw.

 

[MysticKenji]

I saw the begining of the video, and both of the participants are idiots.

That's not cool, man.
Not cool.

Spoiler

Watch the whole match. Zard gets spiked later.

 

[Charizard92]

Come-on! both of them didn't even use the spike or the close proximity side borders! They didn't even use the stage to their full potential! and, this just adds onto PT's underrating.

 

[MysticKenji]

Come-on! both of them didn't even use the spike

Actually, I did on the 2nd scroll of the stage.

or the close proximity side borders!

Neither of us really could, we kept evading each other while moving with the stage.

 

[Charizard92]

A: didn't notice it
B: that was you?! were you Ike? Did your opponent even know how to use PT?
C: isn't fighting the stage instead of the opponent a major problem? isn't that problem also existent on Norfair?

 

[MysticKenji]

B: that was you?! were you Ike? Did your opponent even know how to use PT?

I was Ike and my opponent was Fearmy.

 

[Charizard92]

... Fearmy!!!

 

[haasehero]

mystic i know we got off on the wrong foot i now know what you mean by walk offs
you may have a point about rumble falls but i still think luigis mansion is fair
MAINS seconds

 

[NinjaFoxX]

looking at that video(yeah,i finally got to watch about 70% of it before the connection died)that looked more like you were racing the stage rather than your opponet,i really dont like it much,i would say ban but i still dont see anything majorly gamebreaking

 

[habaker91]

And Port Town Aero Dive is not Mute City. People keep comparing the two, but they are very distinct, despite their elements that seem alike. Mute City stops more often, and the flashing lights and sounds, as well as the slow cars, give more than enough warning to jump. There's also platforms to avoid the cars. And if you get hit? You won't die, unless you're at something ridiculous like 150-200 %. Port Town Aero Dive is completely different from all of this. The cars are way too fast, there is more, often than not, not enough warning, the cars KO at 50 %, and there are times where there are no platforms to avoid the cars. There are also some long times where walk-off zones are apparent, and especially when there are no platforms to avoid them.

Port Town most certainly isn't mute city, i was just comparing the "road drops away suddenly" aspect, which is similar for both stages.

The cars in port town may come with little warning, but enough practice on the stage is more than enough to make the cars a virtual non-issue. The hazards on Halberd are also very painful, but are considered ok because the hazards are avoidable with practice. Aero Dive might be a little harder to learn, but after extensive play on the level, even the dullest of smash players should be able to avoid the cars on a consistant basis.

Temporary walk offs are also present on other moving counterpicks, such as castle siege and isle delfino, and cannot result in the ban hammer

 

[x After Dawn x]

it doesn't matter if it gives an advantage! thats called a cp

That's exactly what I just said. -_-

Port Town most certainly isn't mute city, i was just comparing the "road drops away suddenly" aspect, which is similar for both stages.

The cars in port town may come with little warning, but enough practice on the stage is more than enough to make the cars a virtual non-issue. The hazards on Halberd are also very painful, but are considered ok because the hazards are avoidable with practice. Aero Dive might be a little harder to learn, but after extensive play on the level, even the dullest of smash players should be able to avoid the cars on a consistant basis.

Temporary walk offs are also present on other moving counterpicks, such as castle siege and isle delfino, and cannot result in the ban hammer

Getting used to the cars? No, not really. I still get killed by them even when I'm not supposed to. I'll kill my opponent, then as I land from an aerial or something, I'll just die. At 70-80 $. Not cool, and not really avoidable. They disrupt the match, they kill. It's banned.

About the walk-offs; yes, that's true, but it has no platforms so you can't avoid a chaingrab (unlike Delfino and Castle), and it lasts a good 15-20 seconds, enough to chaingrab somebody. Plus, under certain circumstances, you could prepare and perform a chaingrab infinite without even moving (Dedede on DK, Falco on Fox) and allow the cars to come by and hit you. AKA abuse of the cars. Doesn't sound likely, but I've seen it in a match before.

 

[habaker91]

Getting used to the cars? No, not really. I still get killed by them even when I'm not supposed to. I'll kill my opponent, then as I land from an aerial or something, I'll just die. At 70-80 $. Not cool, and not really avoidable. They disrupt the match, they kill. It's banned.

About the walk-offs; yes, that's true, but it has no platforms so you can't avoid a chaingrab (unlike Delfino and Castle), and it lasts a good 15-20 seconds, enough to chaingrab somebody. Plus, under certain circumstances, you could prepare and perform a chaingrab infinite without even moving (Dedede on DK, Falco on Fox) and allow the cars to come by and hit you. AKA abuse of the cars. Doesn't sound likely, but I've seen it in a match before.

Well then, I and a few other posters a while back must be incredibly lucky or something, because we don't seem to be killed.
Delfino has a few transformations that exist without platforms.
And if a player gets caught in an infinite, aren't they basically dead anyway? I know the CGer could mess up, but if they've got the skills to set someone up like that, then so be it. They'd otherwise end up dead or with tons of damage anyway.

And good to know i'm not the only one up at obscene hours in the morning. I'm not alone.

 

[Vyse]

I still get killed by the wall that suddenly encroaches on the left hand side of Port Town =_=

I don't think the cars are any less avoidable than the fiery ash that sprays everywhere on Norfair. (Not the lava, obviously). But I guess you only have to deal with that particular hazard once every few minutes? (I can't remember how frequently everything happens on that stage).

I guess one of the points I want to make is that if you compare them, Norfair's hazards are easily predicted, but that doesn't mean you'll avoid them x.x

 

[Charizard92]

Norfair's hazards will appear like every 30 seconds or so, so lava is commonplace on the field. It may even happen less than 30 seconds, that may be an optimistic estimate!!

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

my friend pushed me to inside awall on rumble falls with a throw...a worthless glitch but shouldn't affect gameplay...

 

[MysticKenji]

my friend pushed me to inside awall on rumble falls with a throw...a worthless glitch but shouldn't affect gameplay...

O_O
That happens in the match I posted, too.

 

[Charizard92]

Well, glitches are unlikely to be considered in a final list, but Rumble falls is not a very fun stage to play competitively on.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Fun is an opinion (I don't necessarily disagree with yours).