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I agree except swap Skyworld and Bridge of Eldin.
Onett was banned for camping, not for the cars. Mushroom Kingdom was also banned for camping.
this is naturally debateable. Keep in mind every section is simple stating the arguments people could use to label it in one of the three catagories.
I agreed for the most part with this, the only objection being that the pillars limit projectiles at least Mario, Luigi, Peach, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Pikachu, Lucario, Dedede, Shiek, and Ivysaur. THey might affect Charizard and Bowser. This is why i say it best goes for counter.
You're response is a little too vague. What do you see wrong with Brinstar being a counterpick legal stage? If I'm not mistaken, it was counterpick legal back in Melee. Though, you can't really judge stages based on Melee's list; Brawl is a new game.
I mostly agree with this, however, I have some arguements for the following stages:
Frigate Orpheon is one of my favorite levels. The flip really doesn't cause a problem, and the layout of the stage is just wonderful. The moving platforms from the sides will sometimes move quickly, but really, all you have to do is jump and avoid it.
This is what I originally thought. When I posted my list, a friend of mine also questioned me on my placement of Halberd (as well as Luigi's Mansion, see below for that). So, we played on the stage for about three matches. The bombs are slow and obvious; there's no problem here. The claw, however, can sometimes hide from the eye. For me, it's difficult to notice when it's about to attack. And when it does attack, it's pretty fast and straight-forward.
The problem I have with this stage isn't so much the bomb or King Bulblin. Rather, it's the fact that there's a gigantic hole in the middle of a gigantic stage. While the hole is there, the game pretty much stops. Players usually scatter off to their own side, and camp and start spamming projectiles. The stage is just too big, really.
The main problem with this stage is the bulborb. Some times this thig is a bit hard to avoid. You can easily get meteor smashed into the mouth, and the very second that you land, it closes its mouth and walks off of the screen. The rain makes the left side of the stage a bit tricky, and can easily gimp some players in a right situation. Platforms (leaves) lower when stood on, and the main base (vines) are very very bouncy. It's just an odd stage. Although it's one of my favorites, it's just not suit for competitive play.
The top left leaves make the stage uneven, and the bottom left leave is just screaming "CAMP!" The rising and lowering of the leaves can mess up some attacks and combos, even unintentionally by the player performing the combo. It's just a stupid stage.
The pillars and the roof make things unfair a bit more than you think. This stage is killer against a Snake, who is solely projectile. His remote missile, grenades, motor, and other projectiles are all beaten by the pillars and the ceiling. Plus, the edges are similar to Final Destination's; that's just pushing it. It's a fun stage, but should be placed under counterpick legal. Use it against Snakes, no?
That and the flying transformation and the ice transformation. The really only fair map on this stage is the ground/rock. The others have something completely wrong with them. You've already mentioned the major problem with the electric setting. The wind map is obviously stupid, and the ice map just messes up so many attacks it's not even funny.
Thanks for the reply.
I'm pretty sure its knockback is unimpressive and you can usually tell by paying a little closer attention to the background. It's also easier to deal with than the other hazards since like the Sticky Bomb, you can walk past your opponent to switch the target to them. It strikes fairly swiftly, but if all else fails you can shield it.
The topic regarding this stage indicates you have about 10 seconds of warning time before it fires. In order for your examples to work, you'd have to be oblivious to the crosshairs for most of that time and/or allow your opponent to set you up for them.
People keep using this argument, but how many projectiles can reach all the way accross the gap, and how many characters can't jump it? For example, I know the Starfox crew's lazers don't reach too far past the gap. Likewise, I've managed to get past the gap as both Olimar and Ike, who aren't exactly known for having impressive jumping power.
If you're meteor smashed and you're not at a very low percentage, you're most likely dead anyhow. Besides, the whole point of the game is to knock an enemy to a part of the stage where they'll die.
I think a lot of people unfairly hate this stage. I've found it effective to stop my friend who mains Pit from spamming his arrows and force him into aerial combat. It looks like a big stage, but I play Ike and Olimar and have never had issues catching up to opponents that are faster like Pikachu or Pit.
I disagree. Even the weakest of characters are capable of reducing the mansion to rubble, so taking a couple seconds to have Snake punch down the mansion shouldn't be too hard. In matches with my friends, we tend to reduce it to rubble without even trying, and unlike Hanenbow, the stage hasn't affected my Pit friend's arrow spam strategy.
On the ground:
None
You shouldn't even BE in the water anyways, so....if the fish gobbles you up, you deserve to lost that stock!
Problem 'in the water' also covers the bottom platform often, which the fish can eat you from too. I don't see why half of any stage should be a 1hit ko. Even Norfair or Pikmin's hazards aren't that damaging, unpredictable or fast.
Just because there's a ten second warning doesn't mean that your opponent can't still knock you off of the stage. My friend wasn't even trying to set the laser up for an edgeguard yesterday, he was just trying to get a K.O.. I would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for that meddling laser!
MysticKenji said:
Yes, that's the point of the game, but when that can be accomplished at 20% or so, it is unfair.
Still, the rain can cause some slippery deaths. Even when the rain isn't there, the left hill causes problems. Since it's a walk-off, characters such as King Dedede and Falco can dthrow chaingrab you right off into the blast zone.
This still doesn't stop camping. Your friend could just fly up to the top left set of leaves and force you to approach while simply spamming his arrows.
Whoa whoa whoa. Is this to say that, the stages which will be called 'neutral' are not legal to counterpick?
ACTUALLY, there ARE many stages that have already been banned. My LEAST favorite happens to be shocking to most. They might world-wide tournament ban everyone's favorite stage: Final D. Horrible isnt it? It's because of people complaining about getting stuck underneath. And also someone was talking about stages with walls not being out anymore, but you can still infinite damage with a few characters. For example: game+watch's gun, fox reflector, and others. Anyone else know of any other stage bans? My favorite stage, personally, is Final D, as Lucas doesn't really ever get stuck down there... lol.
None of that is strong enough for banned status, Wuss, except for the rain death.
Hmm, I don't believe the fish can eat you through that ice. I've tested it before, and I remember that it only appears through the deeper water. And, it's not hard to dodge the fish before it comes out, but once it's out, your *** better be up the iceberg or you are Fishy Chow.
