[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Shorts]

You're pretty much right. A concern that I think you're missing is that we assume that all these characters we want will all play differently from the established cast when there is no guarantee that the developers will think the same way.

I mean, I could think Kumatora would work perfectly as a C. Viper like character, but they might not see the potential I see.

So let's say..... Daisy Makes it in SSB4. But she plays like Cammy..? (Think Of Mario Strikers Daisy with her kickyness) This would be a unique type "feel" for a smash character, right?

Or Maybe, a character that Plays like BBHood(Capt. Syrup?), or Anakaris(Darkrai)? So a character that has a unique feel kinda? Okay I think I get it. And, I agree. I really would rather play a fresh feeling Daisy over a Mini Bowser/Mario fusion of a Bowser Jr.

Hopefully the Developer (Whoever it is) puts this into cnsideration. I vote Sakurai take a step back. Just my opnion though.

 

[Big-Cat]

If implemented right, Daisy would have a unique feel. Speaking of which, you know the main difference, supposedly, between X-23 and Wolverine in MvC3? X-23 is more mixup and faking oriented than her "father" where as Wolverine is all about getting in with vicious attacks.

And lol at the idea of Syrup playing a way reminiscent of B.B. Hood. That's too awesome for words.

And just so SmashChu doesn't get on my case, I'm not saying that they should look to create movesets for characters based on others. I'm just simply presenting examples of possible playstyles by brining up precedents.

And I agree, I'd rather include a character that has a fresh playstyle and decently popular over someone really popular that doesn't bring anything new. Really, just show a trailer of what that character can do, and a good chunk of the hate would die down.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

What is even the difference between "deserving" and "In-Series Role" isn't deserving like the major cataogry, and in series role a sort of sub catagory we look at for each character?

"Deserving" is a vague descriptor used to justify Character X without providing any specific reasons. Don't use it ever ever ever.

"In-series role" refers to whether the character is a major character in his/her ensemble (IE the difference between say, Ridley and the Prime Hunters). It's different with every series and there are some arguments as to where the line is drawn in a few series.

Simply put, I feel that every character should fill some kind of niche of playstyles so as to pull in as many people as possible. With the case of clone movesets, you can consider those as remixes of movesets. That being said, I don't think clone movesets are something that should be done ever so often. If you're going to make a derivative of a character like Sakura to Ryu, you better make sure they play differently enough.

I'm skimming this discussion so bear with me.

Note that, with the exception of Ganon, every clone set plays similarly within their own games thus far. Obviously that's part of the reason why the Black Shadow/Ganon idea is so popular (although it'd be hilarious if Black Shadow showed up with a sword and energy balls).

But clones aside, look at the Brawl newcomers and how almost all of them have something unique about them (stamina, Pikmin, aura, mines, etc.) or something unique to Brawl characters (gliding/wall clinging/tether Up-Bs). I don't know how specific or vague you're being with "niche of playstyles," but I'd like to think that most of the newcomers do an amazing job establishing new ideas.

Uniqueness factor of their movesets aside, I don't think there's anything remarkable that binds these characters together. That is to say, I wouldn't suggest that these guys were picked because "oh, now HERE'S an idea!" Just reading some of the moveset overhauls people post in here from time to time shows that you can really make anyone a snowflake. In that sense, judging a character on potential playstyle uniqueness comes across as kinda shallow, at least in comparison to aesthetic appeal and prominence.

Spoiler

yes, I'm aware of the irony in that last sentence

 

[Shorts]

I was bored and decided to use my SSB4 Poll for something. I took my "Top 50 (Voted on) characters" when I had exactly fifty votes. I plan on making a list every fifty more votes to log the progress of characters because I am OCD like that anyways, i took the votes, and the top 36 characters and made them a roster. This is the size of brawls roster, minus the random and add another character. Here we goo:

Would you have Minded this as brawl?

Super Mario:
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser

Donkey Kong:
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
King K. Rool

Wario:
Wario

Yoshi:
Yoshi

Legend Of Zelda:
Link
Zelda/Sheik
Toon Link

Pokémon:
Pikachu
Mewtwo
Jigglypuff
Pokémon Trainer (Kanto Male: squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard)

Kirby’s Dream Land:
Kirby
King DeDeDe
MetaKnight

StarFox:
Fox
Falco
Wolf

EarthBound:
Ness
Lucas

Metroid:
Samus/ZSS

F-Zero:
Captain Falcon

Fire Emblem:
Marth
Ike

SmallerFranchises:
Olimar (Pikmin)
Pit (Kid Icarus)
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
R.O.B
Little Mac (Punch Out!!)

3rd Party Franchise:
Sonic
MegaMan

I would like to note that K. Rool got on the list before Diddy, and Mewtwo was the second Pokemon on the list. Strange We are missing some characters? Toad, Ganondorf/Ganon (Non-Clone), Snake, and Samurai Gorah came in to make forty.

 

[SmashChu]

words

OMG the dog can jump and get shot in the face. He can be such a unique character! Let's not forget that Duck Hunt Vs. isn't even made by the same team.

But it still begs the question: what can he do!? Even here, he doesn't bite or scratch. He just jumps and gets mad at you. What moveset potential does he have?

I'm not saying to ignore the in-series role. A major concern that is commonly ignored in this thread is whether or not a character will bring something new to the game. Take a look at the majority of the characters in the series. They all play differently whether it be due to divergent evolution like Mario and Luigi, Fox and Falco (Wolf's more like the Gouken of these two), Link and Toon Link, and Ness and Lucas or just their general design like Zelda, Sheik, Peach, Capt. Falcon, Mr. Game and Watch, etc. I'm not counting Ganondorf for the former because he should've gotten a revamp in playstyle.

The debate started with Megaman not being in MvC3 because, despite his popularity and demand to be in the game, the developers felt that they could not come up with an exciting playstyle that was up to par with the rest of the MvC3 cast while maintaining his identity and not seeming like a combination of different boss attacks.

To jump in on this debate (which I'm glad you brought up because I like this topic)

Take Lucas. He doesn't bring much else to the table that Ness doesn't already do. He could have easily used a Yo-yo if he could in the games. But does that mean he shouldn't be in?

The strength of Smash Brothers is you could look at the roster and say "Yeah, these are the Nintendo All-Stars." This is also what makes the game great. I think the role as the developer is to make sure that, out of all the characters you chose, that they are unique in someway. That you, the designer, need to take these popular and iconic characters and make a moveset that will work and be fun. Contrast this to Marvel vs Capcom 3 where they pick unique characters and bring in a unique moveset. I, of course, disagree with this and would say they should work on making Megaman unique (it wouldn't be hard).

Spoiler

BTW, I actually love the Vs series. I just think there are some very serious design flaw that hold the series back.

 

[Big-Cat]

And what exactly what would you have for Megaman that makes him different? Mind you that they declined the idea of him having specials from different Robot Masters since they felt it was less Megaman and more Robot Masters.

And what are these design flaws?

Lucas is far more ground oriented than Ness who is more aerial oriented. I do wish though, more had been done to distinguish between the two. Project M did a good job by making the center of his game PSI Offense Up.

 

[SmashChu]

....

And what exactly what would you have for Megaman that makes him different? Mind you that they declined the idea of him having specials from different Robot Masters since they felt it was less Megaman and more Robot Masters.
Then they don't know Megaman.

The point of the games was to play the Robot Master's stage and get his weapon. As you beat more masters, you got more weapons, making challenging levels easier and allowing you to pick ones that were easy for you and then challenging when you have all the weapons. Although, truth be told, I have never read them saying that. But to answer your question, give Megaman a lot of moves that he has from the games.

And what are these design flaws?

The entire concept of the verses series is flawed, and it order to make the games big hits, you'd have to redesign the game or just stop making them and move on. To name a few

• Too Fast
• Combos are too long
• Panders to diehard fans rather than everyone
• They talk to much
• Spamming assist makes it more of a button masher
• "cancle-able" X-Factor in MvC3, although it's better than Tatsunoko's one

 

[Big-Cat]

Here's the interview where they briefly explained why Megaman didn't make it in:
http://spong.com/feature/10110305/Interview-Marvel-vs-Capcom-3-Producer-Ryota-Niitsuma

And for your "design flaws"

1. Too fast is entirely subjective. I'm fine with the speed. It's exciting enough to watch to say the least.
2. Matter of opinion. This is a staple aspect, for whatever reason, for new-school fighters like Marvel and Guilty Gear. Besides, wouldn't you say that big combos can easily be enticing?
3. So why did they include a beginner mode again?
4. Again, matter of opinion. I like it. It's like Power Rangers being talkative, it's oddly charming.
5. You're doing it wrong then, and it's not like you can call the assist out over and over, and your opponent should be smart enough to see them coming if you're spamming it.
6. What the heck is wrong with canceling?

 

[SmashChu]

Here's the interview where they briefly explained why Megaman didn't make it in:
http://spong.com/feature/10110305/Interview-Marvel-vs-Capcom-3-Producer-Ryota-Niitsuma

Looked in the interview. He didn't mention the Robot Masters, but it said stuff we both knew.

And for your "design flaws"

1. Too fast is entirely subjective. I'm fine with the speed. It's exciting enough to watch to say the least.
2. Matter of opinion. This is a staple aspect, for whatever reason, for new-school fighters like Marvel and Guilty Gear. Besides, wouldn't you say that big combos can easily be enticing?
3. So why did they include a beginner mode again?
4. Again, matter of opinion. I like it. It's like Power Rangers being talkative, it's oddly charming.
5. You're doing it wrong then, and it's not like you can call the assist out over and over, and your opponent should be smart enough to see them coming if you're spamming it.
6. What the heck is wrong with canceling?

Remember that the reason you make video games is to make money. If you don't want to make money, then why waste all the resources to make it. Heck, just give the game away if that's the point. The Vs. series has never sold over .5 million (but don't quote me on that figure). It has never done that well, and in this day and age, anything under 1million is a flop. Let's look at your responses though this lens.

1. Too fast is entirely subjective. I'm fine with the speed. It's exciting enough to watch to say the least.
It's not subjective to customers. Fast means harder to play which means less people will buy it. There is too slow, but generally you want to put it where the game is still fun but not retardedly fast (which I'd say Marvel still is).

2. Matter of opinion. This is a staple aspect, for whatever reason, for new-school fighters like Marvel and Guilty Gear. Besides, wouldn't you say that big combos can easily be enticing?
Ever wonder why Sakurai keeps lowering the hitstun with each Smash game? It's because it give the player who was hit more control. They don't feel helpless. Combos are fun for the player doing them, not the player receiving it. This will always be biased towards weaker players and drive them away.

3. So why did they include a beginner mode again?
This was more to do with the characters, but remember that no one wants to play the training mode. Tutorials are boring and will make people put down the controller.

The character aspect is they'll chose characters people don't know or don't like for fun movesets. Diehard fans will recognize the obscure characters and fighting game fans care more for movesets than characters.

4. Again, matter of opinion. I like it. It's like Power Rangers being talkative, it's oddly charming.
I'll do a big thing on this another time, but to people outside of the loop it's stupid and annoying. A lot of their lines are both annoying and lame. Normal people will be off put by it.

5. You're doing it wrong then, and it's not like you can call the assist out over and over, and your opponent should be smart enough to see them coming if you're spamming it.
Marvel 2 was about spaming assist. People would pick weaker characters just for assist and they would spam it. Marvel 3 will probably tone it down, but it will still be bad, making it more chaotic and require players to focus more on comboing and calling assist, making more barriers.

6. What the heck is wrong with canceling?
Canceling is another tool better players can use that is fun for them, but makes a huge gap in skill levels which drives everyone else away.

 

[Shorts]

stuff.

These reasons are why casual gamers (Like me) never can get too into a fighting game like MvC. I can BARELY do combos as Cammy/Sakura in SF. So when I think I've made progress, I go online and I am destroyed. That's why I play smash.

Smash doesn't molest me with combos.

 

[Big-Cat]

Remember that the reason you make video games is to make money. If you don't want to make money, then why waste all the resources to make it. Heck, just give the game away if that's the point. The Vs. series has never sold over .5 million (but don't quote me on that figure). It has never done that well, and in this day and age, anything under 1million is a flop.[

Not every game has to sell a million copies to be a success. This depends entirely on the budget of the game. If a game needs to only sell 200,000 thousand copies to make a good profit, it's successful. It's your opinion that games are successful if and only if they sell a million or more copies.

I'm not gonna bother with the rest because your position on multiplayer games and consumers in general has remained the same for as long as I can remember. Nothing I can say will change it.

@Shorty
Word of advice, take online with a grain of salt. Not only that, but it's not just combos you have to worry about, but the strategy as well. It doesn't matter if I can do a 100% combo if I can't set it up or punish with.

I think it'd do you some good to read this short article:
http://www.bitmob.com/articles/the-fighting-game-experience

 

[Arcadenik]

OMG the dog can jump and get shot in the face. He can be such a unique character! Let's not forget that Duck Hunt Vs. isn't even made by the same team.

But it still begs the question: what can he do!? Even here, he doesn't bite or scratch. He just jumps and gets mad at you. What moveset potential does he have?

I still cannot believe how you are still forgetting about R.O.B. But then again, I shouldn't be surprised that you didn't agree to disagree with me. All that NES peripheral did was spin its arms around to lift/drop those blocks and gyros. What moveset potential did he have from that?

Developer 1: Okay, let's see how we could make a moveset from that. Hmm, his side special move could have him spinning his arms around and his down special move could have him throw those gyros.

Developer 2: Hey! What about the standard special and the up special moves?

D1: Oh, I know! R.O.B. is a robot, right?

D2: Right, and?

D1: Well, some robots have rocket boosters and shoot laser beams. Why not we use those for R.O.B.?

D2: But R.O.B. never had those before. That would be out of his character.

D1: So what? R.O.B. is a robot and it makes sense to give R.O.B. those robot moves. R.O.B. could fly with rocket boosters attached to its base and can shoot laser beams from its eyes!

D2: Wow! That sounds like R.O.B. could work as a fighter in Smash after all!

This is creative licensing. I have used this on the Duck Hunt dog and I came up with a moveset that stayed true to the spirit and gameplay of Duck Hunt and the patience that comes with hunting on top of an average dog's combat skills. But of course, knowing you, creative licensing doesn't work on the Duck Hunt dog because he did not fight at all in Duck Hunt but it totally works on R.O.B. even though he never fought at all when you were playing Gyromite or Stack-Up. Gotta love the double standard.

 

[SmashChu]

Not every game has to sell a million copies to be a success. This depends entirely on the budget of the game. If a game needs to only sell 200,000 thousand copies to make a good profit, it's successful. It's your opinion that games are successful if and only if they sell a million or more copies.

I'm not gonna bother with the rest because your position on multiplayer games and consumers in general has remained the same for as long as I can remember. Nothing I can say will change it.

The problem is that, in this day and age, with rising cost and how big the market is, you have to sell 1million. Anything below that is unremarkable. MvC3 is a very costly game and will likely lose money because of it's weak sales.

Also Shortiecanbrawl is an example of why Smash is successful and why other fighting games are not. This isn't the first time I've heard this, as other people complain about similar things. The truth is these games do not appeal to the mass market, where Smash Brothers does. This is why I criticize thing you come up with as they normally come from other fighting games.

words

After 3 post, you have still not said how you can make a unique potential moveset for this dog.

 

[DekuBoy]

SmashChu, really it's not difficult. And it's not his job to make movesets, it's Nintendos.

 

[Kenshinhan]

These reasons are why casual gamers (Like me) never can get too into a fighting game like MvC. I can BARELY do combos as Cammy/Sakura in SF. So when I think I've made progress, I go online and I am destroyed. That's why I play smash.

How's that any different in Smash? If you put the time in and play competitvely in -anything- you do, not just video gaming, you raise your game. This is what SF online players do. They open their minds to everything and anything possible by having a larger sample group to compete against.

The casual gamer usually plays with just his friends or the CPU. That can only do so much. This is why players who regularly attend MLG Brawl tournies are markedly better and more informed. Sure you have your "Brown Mario"'s here and there, but there's a reason M2King keeps winning with Metaknight when other people who also play Metaknight gets beat by his. He reads remarkably well, probably something he picked up in Melee the most. Reading is best toned in tournament play and knowing your opponent's playstyle, and your opponent's character's metagame. Metagame is a general term used that describes the refined, best-of-the-best strategy for a character based off of their strengths and weaknesses in match-up with another specific character.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

After 3 post, you have still not said how you can make a unique potential moveset for this dog.

He's made quite a few posts detailing a Dog moveset and at least one other person discussed it with him for a while.

I'm surprised you of all people are pulling the moveset/pacifism card. Or maybe I shouldn't be and I'm just confusing you with someone else who has a much better grasp on what's acceptable and what's not. It's probably the second thing.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Why the heck are we still discussing about the Dunk Hunt Dog? =P

He's a regular, unimportant dog, and all he does is chase ducks or captures them (depending), that's it. I know the arguement can be, "but he's a dog! he can bite, scratch people, etc.!" if that was the case, then we might as well have some more popular dog like a Nintendog Labrador. He would definitely attract more popularity then that unknown dog from Duck Hunt. But even then, Nintendog really doesn't have a chance, so Duck Hunt dog DEFINITELY doesn't have a chance.

 

[Jaklub]

Why the heck are we still discussing about the Dunk Hunt Dog? =P

He's a regular, unimportant dog, and all he does is chase ducks or captures them (depending), that's it. I know the arguement can be, "but he's a dog! he can bite, scratch people, etc.!" if that was the case, then we might as well have some more popular dog like a Nintendog Labrador. He would definitely attract more popularity then that unknown dog from Duck Hunt. But even then, Nintendog really doesn't have a chance, so Duck Hunt dog DEFINITELY doesn't have a chance.

You just took a side in an argument.

 

[DarkShadow20]

OMG the dog can jump and get shot in the face. He can be such a unique character! Let's not forget that Duck Hunt Vs. isn't even made by the same team.

But it still begs the question: what can he do!? Even here, he doesn't bite or scratch. He just jumps and gets mad at you. What moveset potential does he have?

Um, let's see. He can do stuff with ducks, clay discs, and the zapper. Throw in a dog move like bite or scratch and you have moveset potential.

 

[SmashChu]

He's made quite a few posts detailing a Dog moveset and at least one other person discussed it with him for a while.

I never saw it. Either way, wouldn't it be easy, if he made one up before, top just post it?

Um, let's see. He can do stuff with ducks, clay discs, and the zapper. Throw in a dog move like bite or scratch and you have moveset potential.

Why would this dog do that? Just because they are in the same game?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I never saw it. Either way, wouldn't it be easy, if he made one up before, top just post it?

He is based on cartoon dogs, not real life dogs like Nintendogs are. Notice how these cartoon dogs sometime break the fourth wall by talking to the audience? This could potentially be applied to the Duck Hunt dog. The dog could face the screen and literally point with his finger to tell the hunter (the Duck Hunt player) to shoot at that spot. The next thing you know, there is a small gunfire explosion at the spot the dog was pointing at... something like this one.

Well, there's one mention of it, which you obviously did see because you did respond to it. Again, creative license. There's no reason that Fox or Falco should be able to move at super high speeds or boost themselves with fire, or Captain Falcon should be able to do huge fiery punches and kicks, because they never did any of that in their games. R.O.B. shouldn't be able to do anything, because he was just a toy. Most characters' moves are just filler punches/kicks anyway. It's not the first thing you would think of when you think of those characters, but they need fighting moves because this is a fighting game.

Of course, you're just trying to be difficult, but the bottom line is, you can make a moveset for anything and even this Duck Hunt Dog can potentially be made into a fighter, no matter how much you'd like to think he can't be. Don't doubt Sakurai's capability of making up movesets; the same game that randomly turned a plastic video game accessory into a fighting robot and made up fighting styles for dozens of established characters has sold millions of copies, remember?

 

[Arcadenik]

Nintendogs are real life puppies. Think about this for a minute. Can a real life puppy really fight? No, it just plays with chew toys. It hasn't even learned how to fight yet! If people are gonna suggest a Nintendog over the Duck Hunt Dog, at least come up with an interesting moveset that shows off its moveset potential and stays true to the Nintendogs games.

Anyway, I think that real life animals aren't going to be playable in Smash. That would make it look like Nintendo is promoting animal cruelty and it would attract negative attention and stir controversy. This, to me, is probably the animal equivalent to Sakurai's "no realistic guns" rule. I suggested the Duck Hunt Dog to get around that rule like Sakurai gave Snake explosives to get around his rule. At least he is a cartoon dog who has the ability to stand on two legs like a humanoid (and this frees his arms to use for scratching) and has more moveset potential than the Nintendogs as the ducks, clay pigeons, the NES Zapper, and the hunter (the Duck Hunt player) could be incorporated into his moveset.

I also think that even if the Nintendogs could fight, they would be just as bland as the Urban Champion since that guy didn't have anything unique to make him stand out from the other fighters. He wasn't gonna make an interesting fighter and that's why Sakurai passed him up for the Ice Climbers. How do you make a common street thug more interesting? How do you make a real life puppy more interesting? At least I made the Duck Hunt Dog more interesting by incorporating stuff from Duck Hunt in his moveset. How could we do that with Nintendogs?

 

[Arcadenik]

I never saw it. Either way, wouldn't it be easy, if he made one up before, top just post it?

Why would this dog do that? Just because they are in the same game?

Yes. The Ice Climbers are proof of that. They never had ice powers in their only game but the enemies in that same game had ice powers so the Ice Climbers got their ice powers. Watch this video.

If they can do that, why not the Duck Hunt Dog, too?

And I know that you have seen my Duck Hunt Dog moveset more than once.

 

[Big-Cat]

How's that any different in Smash? If you put the time in and play competitvely in -anything- you do, not just video gaming, you raise your game. This is what SF online players do. They open their minds to everything and anything possible by having a larger sample group to compete against.

The casual gamer usually plays with just his friends or the CPU. That can only do so much. This is why players who regularly attend MLG Brawl tournies are markedly better and more informed. Sure you have your "Brown Mario"'s here and there, but there's a reason M2King keeps winning with Metaknight when other people who also play Metaknight gets beat by his. He reads remarkably well, probably something he picked up in Melee the most. Reading is best toned in tournament play and knowing your opponent's playstyle, and your opponent's character's metagame. Metagame is a general term used that describes the refined, best-of-the-best strategy for a character based off of their strengths and weaknesses in match-up with another specific character.

This.

And my opinion on this Duck Hunt Dog debate.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Gonna nitpick on two things real quick:

Can a real life puppy really fight? No, it just plays with chew toys.

Technically, it's not "can they fight?" unless it's really questionable as to whether they can physically do anything (IE inanimate objects or something completely helpless like Mr. Saturn). Puppies can still bite, scratch, and tackle.

It's more "should they fight?" And that pops up when it seems like it'd be too out of character to do any fighting, as we've seen with the Animal Crossing characters.

But, you know, nitpicking.

NES Zapper

Would actually be the Famicom Beam Gun:



ROB used it in WarioWare, so expect that. Also reminds me of how the whole "no guns and knives to avoid T rating" bit was pretty meaningless given the game's final rating and the inclusion of such objects in lower-rated games.

 

[Arcadenik]

Ahh, that does indeed look like the Famicom Beam Gun! That's cool. Oh, this video also shows R.O.B. using the NES Zapper in WarioWare. You know, that orange and gray Zapper that came bundled with the NES? I think we can expect that one, too.

 

[majora_787]

Also reminds me of how the whole "no guns and knives to avoid T rating" bit was pretty meaningless given the game's final rating and the inclusion of such objects in lower-rated games.

I remember Gex the Gecko averting that. They had an E rating, but also had enemies with shotguns and hunting rifles. I think it was because they fired comically huge bullets, and it would have been much less ridiculous if they shot lasers. xD

EDIT: If the duck hunt dog debate is done, can I rekindle the ridley debate? The krystal debate? How about another pointless debate that can be settled by common sense? : D

Seriously. The character debates are silliness.

 

[Arcadenik]

Character debates are what keep this thread alive... even if they are boring or stupid.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I think we can expect that one, too.

I think you can expect that by yourself while I expect you to cry into your pillow when the Dog doesn't show.

What happened to that thing Kuma was talking about?

 

[majora_787]

I guess that's true. That prolly makes Ridley the biggest jump start then, considering any support topic involving Ridley is banned. =P Forever and all that.

Can we at least try a different character? We've done Ridley, Krystal, Duck Hunt Dog, and Tingle several times... as well as one for sonic characters in general. How about Nephenee? xD Even though it's mostly wishful thinking, it's something different.

 

[Arcadenik]

What? That's insanity. Banning all Ridley discussions? Why not ban all character discussions as well? Why Ridley and only Ridley?

Okay, we have done Ridley, Krystal, Meowth, Tingle, Samurai Goroh, Toad, Bowser Jr., Geno, Paper Mario, Duck Hunt Dog, Dixie Kong, King K. Rool, and Sonic characters to death. The only characters that seem to be universally supported are Mewtwo, Mega Man, and Little Mac. Does anyone agree with this statement?

 

[Shorts]

What happened to that thing Kuma was talking about?

I think I sort of killed that one... sorry! Bring it back to life if you feel the desire though.

What about Female characters, and lack there of? Or Villians, I guess.

We could debate whether or not these "Movements" are good ideas or bad ones? Or something along those lines?

 

[Arcadenik]

To be honest, adding females and villains are fine with me if they are actually key characters in their series but I am not fine with adding females and villains just for the sake of having more females and villains. That's affirmative action.

New villains I suggest - King K. Rool, Medusa, Ridley

New females I suggest - Dixie Kong, Palutena, Medusa, Caeda (at least until Fire Emblem gets another remake or a new game), Mii

I think these are fine and more than enough for the newcomers. The rest are your standard male protagonists (my suggestions, of course) - Little Mac, Starfy, Tingle, Matthew, Isa, Takamaru, Mii, Mega Man

 

[Shorts]

What about Captain Syrup? I feel like the next most likely Wario character is female. Who would you prefer? Captain Syrup, Ashley, or Mona? Syrup is one of the few tough looking females, asides from Samus. I would much prefer Wario take take a Wario Land turn. I cannot stand WarioWare the game. I like some of the characters...but the majority of the game is not my flavor.

I would Rather see Caeda over Lyn, Caeda has a lance..right? That would be quite the unique moveset. Would anyone mind if Metroid got three slots? What about if FE got four? Is it too much to ask for Fire Emblem to have four? Or unrealistic?

I'm okay with King K. Rool OR Dixie, we do not need both.

 

[SuperMetroid44]

Nintendogs are real life puppies. Think about this for a minute. Can a real life puppy really fight? No, it just plays with chew toys. It hasn't even learned how to fight yet! If people are gonna suggest a Nintendog over the Duck Hunt Dog, at least come up with an interesting moveset that shows off its moveset potential and stays true to the Nintendogs games.

Anyway, I think that real life animals aren't going to be playable in Smash. That would make it look like Nintendo is promoting animal cruelty and it would attract negative attention and stir controversy. This, to me, is probably the animal equivalent to Sakurai's "no realistic guns" rule. I suggested the Duck Hunt Dog to get around that rule like Sakurai gave Snake explosives to get around his rule. At least he is a cartoon dog who has the ability to stand on two legs like a humanoid (and this frees his arms to use for scratching) and has more moveset potential than the Nintendogs as the ducks, clay pigeons, the NES Zapper, and the hunter (the Duck Hunt player) could be incorporated into his moveset.

I also think that even if the Nintendogs could fight, they would be just as bland as the Urban Champion since that guy didn't have anything unique to make him stand out from the other fighters. He wasn't gonna make an interesting fighter and that's why Sakurai passed him up for the Ice Climbers. How do you make a common street thug more interesting? How do you make a real life puppy more interesting? At least I made the Duck Hunt Dog more interesting by incorporating stuff from Duck Hunt in his moveset. How could we do that with Nintendogs?

Are you serious? ARE YOU SERIOUS?! LMFAO! XD

First off, I didn't even make a Nintendogs movest yet, so you're implying it like I already made one. SECONDLY, why don't YOU make a movest for that Duck Hunt dog that mostly stays TRUE to it's game. That's going to be pretty hard when all the dog does is jump, and grab a duck. Sorry, just HAD to get that out of the way...

Anyway, moving on... Have you've played Nintendogs? If so, you have seen they do other things than "play" with chew toys. There obviously not like fighters, but if given the chance, I bet they could. Though the question still remains "should they fight?"

As for Duck Hunt Dog, you can say he's a anthro dog, but that's just barely, it's still a dog. All he does is chase ducks, not really even acting like a dog, from what I seen. For movests, I see you're basically implying that Nintendog has nothing to work with for his movest, but let me tell you, it would definitely be easier to make a movest for a real dog, rather than an old, dog that only captures ducks...

And again, you're making assumptions about movests before anyone had the chance to make one... Duck Hunt Dog is just a plain dog as well, you're acting like he has magic powers and is like "I IS SOOOO SPECIAL, I CAPTURE DUCKS, HEHEHHEHEHE!!111" and making Nintendog look like a freaking boring puppy, that does nothing but act like a dog. HMMMMMM, ISN'T THAT WHAT DOGS DO?

Also, feel free to nitpick, it's late and I'm tired, so I might of made a accidently hypocritical point or something. Feel free Toise.

 

[Arcadenik]

Captain Syrup, no doubt. Mona and Ashley just give off that "add me because I am female" vibe. And they are from a spin-off series. I rather have someone who is a recurring character from the main series. I just wish that Captain Syrup had a bigger role in Wario Land: Shake It! where she is more than just a shop keeper. She wasn't even the final boss like in the first two games. She just waited in the shadows and then stole the treasure from Wario after he got it from the Shake King.

I am also puzzled why you would suggest Fire Emblem get four slots and then imply that Donkey Kong shouldn't have four slots.

 

[Arcadenik]

SuperMetroid44, so go ahead and make a moveset for a Nintendog. And I have already made a moveset for the Duck Hunt Dog a long time ago and I had posted it here time and again. Maybe you saw it and then you thought nothing of it and now you are ranting how you never saw a Duck Hunt Dog moveset before in your life and goading me into making a moveset, I don't know, but whatever helps you sleep.

 

[Big-Cat]

Okay, can someone PLEASE go back to that moveset and character thing I brought up. It's the first character related topic I've enjoyed in a long time.

 

[Arcadenik]

KumaOso, about the unique character movesets thing you have been enjoying recently? What do you want to say about that?

As for me, when it comes to SF and MvC gameplay vs. SSB gameplay, I prefer Smash. I used to play Street Fighter II (the original one before the Turbo and Super versions came out) and I was turned off by the complexities that game had to offer. I had no patience to press and hold "down" on the +Control Pad for two seconds before I had to quickly press "up" and a kick button at the same time just to make Chun-Li flip upside-down and start spinning with her legs like a helicopter. I had to learn how to do Ryu's fireball the hard way. Was it "down" then "forward" and a punch button at the same time? No, it was "down", then "diagonal-down", and then finally "forward" and a punch button at the same time and you had to do it quickly. I couldn't figure out how to do most of the characters' specials that I just relied on their regular attacks. In time, I learned how to time my regular attacks and win a few matches. It was great but my options were limited because I knew that if I had known how to execute their special moves properly, I would be able to string them together with regular attacks and I would have more options to win a match.

Super Smash Bros. changed that for me. Mario's fireball? Just press B. Mario's uppercut? Press "up" and B at the same time. The controls were simplified enough for me to be able to string together a character's special moves and regular attacks. And from there, I would be able to learn how to truly develop a strategy with all the options available that I know from the beginning. I prefer Smash over Street Fighter and vs. Capcom games because I am able to use all of my character's moves from the get-go that I can formulate my own playstyle/strategy with them from the very beginning. It has nothing to do with casual vs. tourney at all. It was the accessibility that Smash had to offer to me.

 

[Big-Cat]

I wasn't even talking about execution, Arc. And would it have killed you to take out the manual if you weren't sure to how to do a fireball? Yeah, the commands can be a bit difficult first, but just suck it up and learn them. QCF+P isn't that difficult.

It's always hard the first time, but what isn't hard the first time? After your first fighter with rolling inputs and charges, you can transition rather easily, input wise, from fighter to fighter.

The topic that was being discussed before your DHD discussion killed it was just how much a role moveset potential plays a role in the inclusion of a character.