[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[OmegaXXII]

I really don't want SSB to be filled with third parties. >.> Sonic and Snake were great choices, but I can't picture many others who can actually make SSB still feel like SSB.

well it doesn't have to "be filled" with a ton of 3rd party's all in all I would be just happy if we at least got one new 3rd party added

For third parties, I'm rooting for Megaman, Bomberman, Viewtiful Joe (I know he's also from Capcom, but we can have two Capcom characters), and with the DS remake of Chrono Trigger, maybe we can get Crono, too.

I don't think we'll have two 3rd party's from the same company which I don't see happening, but I definetly want to see Megaman make the cut, as well as Simon Belmont

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

I hope Master Chief from Halo does NOT get in... come on... that's too much :/

 

[OmegaXXII]

I hope Master Chief from Halo does NOT get in... come on... that's too much :/

I know you are being sarcastic, right? I mean doesn't want to see this guy going up against Snake

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

I don't know! I mean I could probably be convinced pretty easily that he would be an awesome addition, and I love the Halo games and all, it's just he doesn't seem to fit in in the smash bros. World. But the same could probably have been said for Snake so who knows?? If he was well-represented, I'd love to see him in.

 

[DanGR]

How bout Banjo Kazooie?

 

[OmegaXXII]

I don't know! I mean I could probably be convinced pretty easily that he would be an awesome addition, and I love the Halo games and all, it's just he doesn't seem to fit in in the smash bros. World. But the same could probably have been said for Snake so who knows?? If he was well-represented, I'd love to see him in.

see you just answered your own question, Master Chief would definetly fit in just fine with any problem

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

see you just answered your own question, Master Chief would definetly fit in just fine with any problem

Yea I know I tend to contradict myself/see the other side of things after I already post my opinion


and yea. Banjo-Kazooie would freakin' kick ***. Seriously they'd be a great choice. I think they would have definately been if Rare wasn't deedeedee and moved to Microsoft....

Banjo-Kazooie have so many move-set opportunities it's not even funny...

 

[SirKibble]

I don't think we'll have two 3rd party's from the same company which I don't see happening, but I definetly want to see Megaman make the cut, as well as Simon Belmont

I know it's unlikely, but I'd still like it. Both would be awesome, unique characters.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Master Chief won't cut it since he's owned by Microsoft, which won't allow Nintendo to use their characters.

Likewise, Banjo and Kazooie are owned by Rare, which is owned by Microsoft. Therefore, they won't be showing up on any major Nintendo consoles anymore.

Final Fantasy could work though since the series did appear on some Nintendo consoles. Problem is, practically every game has different protagonists.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Yea we know some of the characters will never appear, but it's still nice to think about what if they did.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Double-post :/

Anyways:

I think Lucario's ability should be changed, if they keep him. Which I think they should do. I think that he should be a bit stronger than he is now, and so instead of him getting stronger with more damage, his attacks execute/charge quicker. Cuz that's true to the pokemon games, and plus.... His attacks are kinda slow, am I right?

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Characters who I think have a chance:

Mona or Ashley - Warioware
Deoxys/Meowth/Mewtwo - Pokemon
Officer Copper - Animal Crossing
Lip - Panel de Pon
Krystal - Starfox
Sylux/Dark Samus - Metroid
(NOT RIDLEY!!)
Birdo/Baby Bowser - Mario bros.
Toon Zelda/Tetra - Zelda
Vaati - Zelda
Michaia - Fire Emblem
Ninten/Guigue/Kumatora/Poo - Earthbound

Various assist trophy characters like Issac and Saki who could be made into proper characters.

blah, that's all I got.

 

[globiumz]

This post has been deleted. It is no more. Sorry. 10postdeletions.

FALCON KICK!

 

[SkylerOcon]

k. I think all of the bottom tiers (except Jiggly, she sux) deserves a huge bost.

Yoshi needs stronger fsmash and usmash. Dsmash can stay weak, as it's more useful for crowd control. Hip drop needs to get buffed again. With this, Yoshi shouldn't have too much trouble KOing.

Hopefully they will change around the physics system as well, which will indirectly buff Yoshi. i.e, hitstun (allowing for combos), slower shield, only two air dodges, and a bit faster pace.

His specials also need to be buffed. Longer range on egg lay, and the egg shouldn't fall so much upwards first, making it easier to gimp people. Egg roll should be faster, and have more priority. I also think it should be useful for recovery horizontally. To avoid sucide, it should cancel faster and not put Yoshi into helpless mode. Hip drop, as said earlier, should have more KO power.

He could also have a bit more priority in the air, or he will keep getting overpwned by Marth and Luigi. His grab it's very short to be a long range grab, and still has the same amount og lag, or maybe even worse than other grabs with better range like Samus'. Less lag and more range. Faster rolls. I don't think he sould get the jump out of shield ability though, as that would Yoshi's shield overpowered.

I agree with everything in your post. Except for the fact that Jigglypuff is a she, and that he sucks. Firstly, Jigglypuff is a black, gangster male and he does, in fact, win at life.

 

[Newuser12345215]

Final Fantasy could work though since the series did appear on some Nintendo consoles. Problem is, practically every game has different protagonists.

Well Fire Emblem games have different universes and protagonists, we have Roy, Marth, Ike, all from different universes and different main characters.

Personally, I'd want Agrias(She's from Final Fantasy Tactics)to appear in SSB4. Agrias is one of the best characters in the game, she's worst than Orlandu but Orlandu is plain broken(you can practically beat the entire game with just him once he joins your party).

Sakurai said he wanted to add more female characters.

Here's my idea for Agrias, she's sort of a Marth clone though.

Also, here's my other ideas for SSB4, they're mainly suggestions like add 6 players and add colored Name tags instead of the grey ones.

 

[Raging-Banebou]

One more "OMG I WANT MASTER CHIEF", and my head is going to explode.

 

[Snafu]

Personally, I'd want Agrias(She's from Final Fantasy Tactics)to appear in SSB4. Agrias is one of the best characters in the game, she's worst than Orlandu but Orlandu is plain broken(you can practically beat the entire game with just him once he joins your party).

Sakurai said he wanted to add more female characters.

I believe one of the other constrictions is that the character has to have appeared on a Nintendo console, which Agrias hasn't. You'd have to find a similar character in one of the FFT Advance games.

 

[Roller]

Bomberman, o wait. I forgot they added him and named him snake...

 

[BrawlTilDawn309]

I know i mentioned Sora earlier, and someone responded saying that there will be a DS KH game, and KH3 might go on the Wii, so Sora is almost a definite. But what about Sephiroth, am I the only one who is thinking about this? he's one heck of a fighter, like he could be the last character you unlock. What do u guys think?

 

[ducky285]

To improve Yoshi, my idea is this...

Midair Jumps
Instead of one big second jump, why not make Yoshi's jump truer to his game persona? I propose he get multiple midair jumps that mimic his flutter jump from Yoshi's Island. He would hover forward a good distance and then gain significant height (though not as much as he does now) toward the end. Maybe give him 2 or 3 of these jumps.

This helps his recovery and allows for interesting aerial approaches on the ground after a SH since I'm thinking there shouldn't be any DJC. Also helps in edgeguarding.

Egg toss recovery would work the same and using them before midair jumping would still work to preserve jumps. This gives Yoshi pretty good and flexible recovery.

Shield
I would say let Yoshi jump out of his shield, but also remove the entire shield-shrinking mechanic for everyone and essentially give everyone the same type of shield Yoshi currently has. Blue shield turns more red as it take damage. Bright red means the shield is about to break. I think that's fair.

Moveset
Standard - Jab Kicks into Side Kick
Same as before except we add a third attack similar to his old f-tilt from Melee. High priority.

F-tilt - Tail Whip
Quicker with more range and less lag, perfect for setting up air combos. Damage and knockback are both very low. High priority.

D-tilt - Tail Swipe
Same as now, a quick get-off-me move. Improve the knockback to make it a KO move at higher percentages (200% or more).

U-tilt - Tail Flip
Make this look more like a violent f-tilt angled WAY upward. Quick with more knockback than previous but slightly more lag. Does high hitstun and juggles at low percentages. Kills at 150%.

Dash - Rushing Heabutt
Same as before

F-smash - Yoshi Kick
Yoshi leans back on his tail and lets loose a kick with both his feet. Startup is quicker than you might think and knockback is good. Kills at 110% and doesn't lag much. Attack comes out instantly after a full charge (much like MK's f-smash in Brawl). High priority.

D-smash - Double Tail Sweep
Increase the knockback a bit (somewhere between Melee and Brawl) to make it a reilable KO move. Kills at 120%. Very quick coming out but leaves you open from above if whiffed. Very little lag, though.

U-smash - Head Smash
Same old move it's always been. Kills at 115%. Comes out fast, huge hitbox but lags a bit.

N-air - Yoshi Boot
Same as it ever was, kills at 140%. High priority. Useful after a double jump as an approach. No lag on landing.

F-air - Head Dunk
Same as Brawl. Non-sweetspot kills at 120%, sweetspot spikes and kills off the top at 175%. Can be autocanceled.

B-air - Tail Frenzy
A series of quick tail whips that deals mediocre damage and knockback but has high priority and does great hitstun. Sets up combos and kill moves. Autocancels. All-purpose move for Yoshi.

D-air - Flutter Kick
A multi-hitting move that has high priority and deals massive damage if all hits connect. Hitstun is low so it's easily punished if you land next to someone. Lags on landing.

U-air - Tail Somersault
Quick vertical kill move with great vertical range but narrow horizontal range. Autocancels and kills at 115% off the top. Great juggler at low percentages.

Specials
B - Egg Lay
Unblockable command grab. Quick with about the same range as the standing grab. Egg pops out right behind Yoshi and just above the ground, allowing a small window for opponent DI. Can hit the egg but damage is reduced by about 50%.

SideB - Egg Roll
Changing this entirely. Yoshi rolls forward a moderate distance in an egg and automatically pops out with a bit of lag. Quick startup, high priority, decent vertical knockback and high hitstun. Egg automatically turns around at an edge. Moves forward quite a bit if done in the air. Useful for recovery in the air and approaches on the ground.

UpB - Egg Toss
Same as Melee except that it helps recovery like in Brawl. High hitstun, making for great edgeguard setups.

DownB - Yoshi Bomb
Same as Brawl. Kills at 115% when it hits when done off the ground, 150% it if hits after it's done in the air.

Grabs
Standing Grab
Still slow but a bit faster than before with less lag. Has a long active hitbox.

Dash Grab
Yoshi takes a step, leans forward then grabs. Great range, a bit of startup and lag if it misses.

Pivot Grab
Still amazing. Comes out quickly with almost no lag.

Throws
F-throw
Decent knockback and high hitstun. KOs at about 170%

B-throw
Same as f-throw except in the opposite direction.

U-throw
Decent vertical knockback with decent hitstun, allows for combos at low percentages.

D-throw
Low diagonal knockback with high hitstun, useful for setting up u-air kills.

Alt. Colors
Green
Red
Yellow
Blue
Indigo (or dark blue for you philistines )
Purple
Pink
Orange
Black
White

That's all I got.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Continuing on my Smash 4 roster data, I did add a weight comparison list that I composed. The list goes from heaviest to lightest.

Note: Pokemon Trainer isn't on the list since you're actually using his Pokemon (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard).

*old weight list*

I did make some changes to my weight comparison list for my Smash 4 roster. Here's my new list.

1-3: King Dedede, King K. Rool, Black Knight
4-6: Bowser, Charizard, Solid Snake
7: Donkey Kong
8-10: Samus, Ganondorf, Ike
11-12: Link, Captain Falcon
13-15: Roy, R.O.B., Wolf
16: Wario
17-22: Mario, Yoshi, Luigi, Waluigi, Sonic, Knuckles
23-25: Ness, Ivysaur, Lucas
26-27: Ice Climbers, Marth
28-30: Mewtwo, Rosalina, Ridley
31: Lucario
32-34: Diddy Kong, Bowser Jr., Gallade
35-37: Sheik, Toon Link, Vaati
38-41: Fox, Peach, Zelda, Falco
42: Black Mage
43-46: Meta Knight, Pit, Gardevoir, Tails
47-50: Zero Suit Samus, Kirby, Pikachu, Toon Zelda
51-54: Mr. G&W, Pichu, Squirtle, Olimar
55: Jigglypuff

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Smash 4 will probaly fail hard because of no Gamecube Controller (I doubt Wii2 will have backwards compatibility with the Gamecube)

 

[Big-Cat]

I've been watching videos that show what music could have worked in some stages and watching them gave me a great idea: Stage BGM should not be limited to music from the corresponding series. For example, one video used the song Hell Prominence (Molten Galaxy) as a song on Norfair and it works unbelieveably well. I think this could get a lot of famous songs in the game that otherwise wouldn't get in.

Come to think of it, Snowman should've been in the Ice Climbers level.

 

[Chief Mendez]

But what about Sephiroth, am I the only one who is thinking about this? he's one heck of a fighter, like he could be the last character you unlock. What do u guys think?

He's also a really dumb character, who has yet to appear on a Nintendo console. Even if he is in 358/2 Days, he'll be a secret boss again (same for KH3, even if it's on Wii, which I doubt).

So, no.

To improve Yoshi, my idea is this...

And yet I see quite a few ideas here...

Contradictions aside, I personally don't think Yoshi's that bad in Brawl...except for his Egg Roll, which, 99% of the time, ends up making me self-destruct. It was a little awkward at first, getting used to using him without being able to crouch-cancel, but after that hurdle was hurdled, I think he feels perfect.

 

[Spartan1841]

Smash 4 will probaly fail hard because of no Gamecube Controller (I doubt Wii2 will have backwards compatibility with the Gamecube)

We'll have to wait no one knows even if a Wii2 would come out, there would probably be new controllers maybe....

 

[ducky285]

And yet I see quite a few ideas here...

Contradictions aside, I personally don't think Yoshi's that bad in Brawl...except for his Egg Roll, which, 99% of the time, ends up making me self-destruct. It was a little awkward at first, getting used to using him without being able to crouch-cancel, but after that hurdle was hurdled, I think he feels perfect.

It's one BIG idea on Yoshi as a whole but whatever. He's decent in Brawl but he has a lot of issues that prevent him from being higher than low tier. He's a balanced character, but that means he has little that allows him to stand out.

Anyway, Yoshi is clumsy in the air (slow jump, good aerial movement forward but doesn't weave as well as Wario or Jiggs do) and lacks priority. His kill moves aren't as reliable as they should be. U-air is his best option, f-smash is his strongest. Edgeguards play a huge part in getting kills as Yoshi, which forces him to take risks. One misstep and he dies.

His recovery isn't that much of an issue but it's not very flexible and easy to predict.

His weird shield cuts down his options out of shield (can't u-smash without dropping the shield and has a slow grab, as well as a ****ty roll). It means the Yoshi player has to constantly be aggressive, which can be tough since his best approaches are in the air where he lacks priority. This leads to his many bad match-ups.

Egg Roll isn't that much of an issue because it's situational and most Yoshis don't use it very often. I almost never use it unless I want to get somewhere really fast and don't have to worry about the ending lag.

 

[globiumz]

What ducky said. there's a reason why he's bottom tier. Even if Sakurai might not care about tiers at the tournament level, he still flops hard at casual levels as well, all though not THAT hard.

 

[Chief Mendez]

There are changes to every moveset that should be made. Chances are, if Yoshi was changed as such, another character would be unbalanced (or seem to be) in comparison. I don't know, but I really do think Yoshi's current moveset is pretty suited to his character.

Plus I never play Yoshi. That helps keep me completely nonpartisan.

 

[Big-Cat]

In regards to Yoshi's grab, I think it should be as long as other long range grabs and it should have a tether recovery. However, Yoshi would not stick his tougne on the edge for a while. Rather, he is pulled to the edge and is tossed up a little bit like in Yoshi's Story.

 

[Ilex]

Here is how I would change Yoshi:
-Make Egg Toss his neutral B
-Make Egg Lay his down B
-Make Yoshi bomb his Dair
-Make Flutter Kick his UpB

Flutter Kick as an UpB would consist of Yoshi spasming his legs in such a manner that he gains vertical height. Think of it like DK's Up B only with Yoshi wagging his feet.

 

[ducky285]

If anything, SideB should be Egg Toss and UpB would be the Flutter Kick. Forcing Yoshi Bomb to d-air would be horrible since his d-air is his best damage dealing attack and the YB is pretty unsafe and best used when on the ground.

 

[MarthFanatique]

We'll have to wait no one knows even if a Wii2 would come out, there would probably be new controllers maybe....

Even if there isn't a Gamecube controller slot, Brawl (and perhaps other games) will have special controllers that are like the GC controller, but it's *insert next Nintendo console* adaptable. Does that make sense?

 

[Roy-Kun]

Even if there isn't a Gamecube controller slot, Brawl (and perhaps other games) will have special controllers that are like the GC controller, but it's *insert next Nintendo console* adaptable. Does that make sense?

Nice question. However... this is not the moment to be thinking of this now.

And what's with changing Yoshi now? Isn't he essencially perfect as he is in Brawl now? (movement-term, I say yes).

 

[ducky285]

If Yoshi was perfect in Brawl, he wouldn't be doing so poorly in tournaments thus far. He wouldn't be obviously disadvantaged against a great majority of the cast. He wouldn't have trouble getting the KO. He wouldn't be heading straight for low or bottom tier.

I think Yoshi could've been made so much better than they made him. He's not a very good character as it stands but it seems like the devs didn't care about balance at all. Look at Samus and Falcon. Then look at Meta Knight and Snake.

 

[gantrain05]

here's an idea for yoshi, u all remember the old super mario world, right, why not make his UpB his wings like when he eats a blue shell, and we could even give him a decent fireball projectile, maybe give it similar speed and size as wolfs blaster, but give maybe a little more knockback/dmg, and his neutral B why automatically do the egg lay? why not give the option to spit the opponent in a direction to possibly harm other players or to just throw them away? and if u want to do the egg lay maybe press down or maybe B again, theres just so many things that could be done to yoshi to make him not completely suck, but sakurai doesn't want that, he wants yoshi to be the same lame dinosaur he has been since ssb64 (although he wasn't too bad back then)

 

[BlueBarrage]

i'm sure someone else and by someone i mean everyone has had there imput as to what some new characters should or could maybe be in SSB4 as well as which ones we should keep and throw from the old SSBs

-honestly i dont think peach ever belonged... of coarse she does have her strong points but so does everyone else, its not that she's a girl that bothers me its that she's not a fighter, she's the worthless ho u have to save in every mario game.

-i hate jiggly puff with a passion i dont know anyone that plays as her/him/it...sonic & yoshi's roll attacks are enough, her over B is useless, when it puts ppl to sleep they wake up almost before she's done singing, kirby can already fly around like it, and her up B is jsut a combination of luigi's up B and the lip stick...all and all- she's useless

-the only other character thats in brawl that really bothers me is wario, his final smash is gayer than aids and i dont expect people to agree with me but i hate the new "warioware " version of wario, the farting, the motercycle...i just dont like it

i liked roy but i like ike more...i also like mewtwo..but i cant argue with lucario, i actually had a list of characters that i think could be in the next smash bros(though most of these would just be cool) but i cant seem to find it so i'll have to wing it

Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Bowser, DK, Diddy, "Classic Wario", Link, Zelda, Shiek, Ganon w/sword, Toon Link, Toon Ganon, Midna & Wolf Link, Kirby, Meta Knight, Dedede, Samus, Ridley, Dark Samus, Pit, Ice Climbers, Olimar, Fox, Falco, Wolf, Crystal, A Zora, the goron leader from ocarina of time(i cant remember his name), captain falcon, pikachu, pokemon trainer, lucario, marth, ike, ness, lucas, snake, sonic, knuckles, shadow, chaos, bomberman, geno, mallow, bowser jr. from super mario sunshine, R.O.B., Miciah or howerver u spell it from the newest fire emblem, knuckle joe...aaaaand that is all i can think of right now. but if you guys can think of some other ones that'd be cool.

i'd also like to elaborate(bare with me here ppl, this is my first post and i got a lot of stuff i want to say) on final smashes...at least what i think at the bad ones...

DK's is gay...plain and simple, it'd be kinda cool if shiek's was different from zelda's but thats just me, toon links could have something to do with the windwaker or something, falco should have the arwing now just the landmaster like fox...that was gay, and wolf shouldnt even have a landmaster she should have his wolfen, they should have made ness' and lucas' a little different and he's my secondary but yeah... sonic's is cheap

sooo...i'ma go now for i dont want you all to hate me for my mindless blabber

 

[DekuBoy]

Peach was the star of her own game which is more than most the other characters can say.
Jigglypuff is from the original 12.
As for Wario, you have a point. I prefer Classic Wario. As for his Final Smash I do not think it's 'gayer than AIDS'.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Nice first post BlueBarrage, and I agree with you for the most part, they should definitely elaborate on Final Smashes, but since they won't be used in tourneys it wouldn't really matter to me personally. And adding on to your list of people, I think Toon Zelda/Tetra should be in, and, like Zelda/Sheik, they could change with down B. That would be cool.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In regards to Yoshi's grab, I think it should be as long as other long range grabs and it should have a tether recovery. However, Yoshi would not stick his tougne on the edge for a while. Rather, he is pulled to the edge and is tossed up a little bit like in Yoshi's Story.

Personally I dislike the way Yoshi does his grabs. He already uses his tongue to grab foes with Egg Lay. Interestingly enough, Yoshi is more likely to get his foe with Egg Lay than with his grab attempts.

If it were up to me, I'd have Yoshi grab with his arms than with his tongue.

 

[Raging-Banebou]

One question about Yoshi...how can you grab somebody with small arms?