[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Starphoenix]

Jigglypuff's fanbase pretty much died out. The original twelve rule may be a tradition (that I can insult to my heart's content), but it's also laziness and uncreativity.

Deal with it Jigglypuff fanboys and Original Twelve Tradition fanboys!

Sakurai favors nostalgia, tradition, and creativity regardless of fanbase or popularity.

Deal with it!

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Brawl already has enough nostalgia. And some traditions (like the Original Twelve one) should be insulted and tossed aside. The Original Twelve rule isn't creative.

Want to end this Jigglypuff debate?

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

I'll ignore the post above me and just give my opinion; Jiggs isn't going anywhere, like it or not. If anyone's gonna be cut for Mewtwo, it's gonna be Pokemon Trainer, as he takes up half of the Pokemon roster slots already, and isn't in the original 12. Lucario might be cut as well, but it would be in place of a new Pokemon, if at all. Also, the original 12 is not laziness, it's tradition, as Pieman said. Those are the characters that three generations of Smashers have seen in the games, and who will always be there to use. There would be backlash for axing PT, of course, but there would be just as much backlash for axing Jiggs, no matter how much you hate her. I know lots of people who main her.

Since when did smash have "slots" and how do we know that lucario and pktrainer replaced mewtwo? im sure if sakuri said "we didnt have room for mewtwo because we put in meta knight" people wouldn't care nearly as much...the point being people are looking for an excuse to get rid of characters they dont like

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Here's a new topic: Sheik's awesomeness! (maybe not that)

 

[Clownbot]

@MtJ: Characters won't get cut just because of some of their moves.

EDIT: Heeey, how about we talk about SSB4? Or is this the 4th alliance of the Super Sheik Boys thread?

 

[POKE40]

I want to see Meta Knight again.
Nerfed. XD

Oh.. Jiggs will be back.
The O-12 will always be around.

 

[Kazyx]

I don't quite understand your theory, but you made a small mistake. The only characters that we really know who were planned for SSB64 but were scrapped were only Bowser, King Dedede, and Mewtwo. This was to include a few rivals/enemies, but it is my belief that the developers wanted to limit it to protagonists only (that last part is just a theory).

The other three supposedly scrapped SSB64 characters were Peach, Pit, and Meowth, but these are only rumors and have never actually been proven.

Ahh, my mistake. I thought Peach and Pit were official.

And I knew I was forgetting someone on my list. >.<

Guess I should have researched a bit more. Oh well.
Now, as for characters for being in SSB4, if they decide to make one, is a rather difficult choice.

I'd say Dry Bowser, but I doubt he actually would be unique, and be more or less a Bowser clone.
Waluigi WOULD be nice as a playable character, as would some other villains such as Petey Pirahna and if they decide more Sonic characters, Dr. Robotnik (Is there even a difference between Dr. Eggman and Dr. Robotnik?)

As for other possible characters, I personally liked the Pokemon Trainer concept, and think that it could be implemented again, maybe instead of Generation One Pokemon, they copuld have Generation Two Pokemon, such as Chickorita, Quilava and Feraligatr (I'd prefer Totodile, Bayleef and Typhlosion, but I'm pretty sure that the other three are preferred more).

Also, perhaps instead of Jigglypuff, we bring back Mewtwo, or maybe bring in Darkrai. Not sure how Darkrai would work though.

Another character I'd like to see is Paper Mario. His games would surely give him some unique moves. Such as the badges you could wear, and the Pixels. Items such as the Super Hammer, and the Super Boots would be good items as well.

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

Kazyx, since you joined my side of the Jigglypuff discussion, you rock!:bigthumbu

 

[Starphoenix]

Since when did smash have "slots" and how do we know that lucario and pktrainer replaced mewtwo? im sure if sakuri said "we didnt have room for mewtwo because we put in meta knight" people wouldn't care nearly as much...the point being people are looking for an excuse to get rid of characters they dont like

It has been pretty well established by people who have peeked inside the game that Roy and Mewtwo were farther along than any of the cut characters due to them having 2 file tags for individual themes when Wolf did not even have one. Which suggested that they were probably cut between the time that Sonic was currently being developed (which is speculated to be a month or two before his official reveal on the DOJO) and when Wolf was developed (judging by the files as well as his lack of appearance in SSE we gather that he was the last to finish the roster).

So really truth be told Sonic and Wolf laid the smackdown on Mewtwo. Speculatively of course.

Which BTW, is there a single thread that has all the information compiled from the hackers who hacked Brawl?

 

[Kazyx]

I use Jigglypuff on occasions actually, but I don't see much going for her other than being 'popular' thanks to the anime and like, two moves. I'd rather see someone with better potential.

Jiggly may have her fully-charged B and her Down-B going for her, but that's basically it for her good attack arsenal if memory serves me right.

Maybe if they replaced Jigglypuff with even Clefairy or Clefable, I could accept it. Still a pink cutesy Pokemon, but its got better moves than Jigglypuff for sure.

 

[BSP]

I want the GOOD captain falcon back

 

[Mario the Jumpman]

What's wrong with Captain Falcon right now?

 

[BSP]

What's wrong with Captain Falcon right now?

No priority, slow start up on many moves, doesn't do well against *******, the knee got worse. He basically got nerfed bad. Or brawls physics hurt him a lot.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm one of the few fans who still want Meowth to be playable in Smash. It is obvious that Sakurai is biased towards the 1st gen... but then again, the 1st gen is the most popular gen anyway. Sakurai obviously does not care about overrepping the 1st gen - its just the fans who care about that. I really think Meowth could be the next 1st gen Pokemon to be playable in SSB4 because the Melee poll went like this:

Mewtwo - 35 votes
Mew - 24 votes
Red - 18 votes
Misc. Pokemon - 12 votes
Lugia - 11 votes
Meowth - 8 votes
Raichu - 7 votes
Marill - 5 votes
Bulbasaur - 5 votes
Togepi - 5 votes

Mewtwo was the first choice and became playable in Melee. Mew was the second choice but it does not look like it could work as a viable fighter in Smash. Sakurai skipped on to the third choice, Red, who became the Pokemon Trainer in Brawl. The fourth choice was some miscellaneous Pokemon but they probably ended up as trophies or Pokeball Pokemon in Melee. Lugia was the fifth choice but it does not look like it could work as a viable fighter in Smash. So, it is possible Sakurai could skip on to the sixth choice, Meowth, who could become playable in SSB4.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

I'll ignore the post above me and just give my opinion; Jiggs isn't going anywhere, like it or not. If anyone's gonna be cut for Mewtwo, it's gonna be Pokemon Trainer, as he takes up half of the Pokemon roster slots already, and isn't in the original 12. Lucario might be cut as well, but it would be in place of a new Pokemon, if at all. Also, the original 12 is not laziness, it's tradition, as Pieman said. Those are the characters that three generations of Smashers have seen in the games, and who will always be there to use. There would be backlash for axing PT, of course, but there would be just as much backlash for axing Jiggs, no matter how much you hate her. I know lots of people who main her.

Great argument and all about Jigglypuff, I totally agree. No matter how much she is hated, she won't leave simply for nostalgic worth, and while she has a few haters, she has many supporters as well.

But I don't think you understand what "slot" means. Pokemon Trainer takes up ONE pokemon slot, but he is consisted of three characters. Just like Samus and Zero Suit Samus are different characters, but take up one slot. The same goes for Zelda and Shiek.

Since when did smash have "slots" and how do we know that lucario and pktrainer replaced mewtwo? im sure if sakuri said "we didnt have room for mewtwo because we put in meta knight" people wouldn't care nearly as much...the point being people are looking for an excuse to get rid of characters they dont like

Slots is a common term used to refer to a section of the roster that a character takes up. Pokemon Trainer, while being three characters, takes up one slot. We have 39 characters in Brawl but we only have 35 slots. Make sense now? If you don't like it then I'd suggest you leave, you're going to here the term quite a lot around here.

And while Mewtwo was cut mainly due to time, you could say that he was replaced by the Pokemon Trainer and that Pichu was replaced by Lucario (Pokemon Trainer/Mewtwo = first generation characters, Pichu/Lucario = new-generation representatives). It is obvious that Sakurai decided to cap the slots at four (as seen by Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon). It would be wierd for Pokemon to have five and Zelda or Mario to have four, right? So maybe there was more time to finish Mewtwo, but Dr. Mario and Toon Zelda (the late scraps for Mario and Zelda) probably couldn't be finished in time, Mewtwo wasn't finished either, because it would: 1.) Give Pokemon to much representation, including 1st-gen representation; .2) Give Pokemon more slots than Mario and Zelda which would be really unecessary.

Ahh, my mistake. I thought Peach and Pit were official.

I'd say Dry Bowser, but I doubt he actually would be unique, and be more or less a Bowser clone.
Waluigi WOULD be nice as a playable character, as would some other villains such as Petey Pirahna and if they decide more Sonic characters, Dr. Robotnik (Is there even a difference between Dr. Eggman and Dr. Robotnik?)

As for other possible characters, I personally liked the Pokemon Trainer concept, and think that it could be implemented again, maybe instead of Generation One Pokemon, they copuld have Generation Two Pokemon, such as Chickorita, Quilava and Feraligatr (I'd prefer Totodile, Bayleef and Typhlosion, but I'm pretty sure that the other three are preferred more).

Also, perhaps instead of Jigglypuff, we bring back Mewtwo, or maybe bring in Darkrai. Not sure how Darkrai would work though.

Another character I'd like to see is Paper Mario. His games would surely give him some unique moves. Such as the badges you could wear, and the Pixels. Items such as the Super Hammer, and the Super Boots would be good items as well.

Honestly, don't expect Dry Bowser or Waluigi. Petey Piranha will never happen either, he is more fit for a boss and he really isn't very significant to the Mario series. There are plenty more deserving Mario characters like Bowser Jr., Toad, and like you mentioned, Paper Mario.

There is an EXTREMELY low chance that we will see multiple representation from a single Third Party series, which means no new Sonic characters. While we have seen the introduction of Third Party series, this is still a Nintendo game, and more characters actually significant to Nintendo itself deserve these slots, not more guest characters.

I'm pretty sure the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon will remain the same, but I agree that it is possible that we could see a different generation represented, probably the second (for the revival of Gold/Silver) like you said. And as much as people want Mewtwo to return, it isn't very likely at all, unless we see a VERY unnecessary amount of representation for Pokemon. Jigglypuff will stay for the reasons I stated above. While she has haters, she also has many fans, and she will stay for nostalgic worth and the such, things that Sakurai actually cares about as stated by Starpheonix earlier.

 

[Isidro25]

Seriously, Jiggy is staying. I don't see her leaving after being in three games, even more so with Sakurai acknowledging her perfect attendance both in the game and the Dojo!.

 

[BKupa666]

I understand what slots means, but a lot of people don't; axing PT would be a lot less problematic than removing a tried-and-true character like Jiggs.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's right. There's a big difference between character and slot. SSB has 12 characters within 12 slots. SSBM has 26 characters within 25 slots. SSBB has 40 characters within 35 slots. Its probably not common knowledge but Sakurai counts Red, too, not just Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. Just look at Pokemon Trainer's page on the Dojo.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Various posts by Mario the Jumpman...

Do you honestly think Peach will be cut? I mean, you may like the idea, but seriously, it isn't going to happen. Much of your arguments for who will be in the game and who won't are only backed up by bias. Well I'm sorry but Sakurai doesn't base his decisions off of what Mario the Jumpman thinks will happen.

That's right. There's a big difference between character and slot. SSB has 12 characters within 12 slots. SSBM has 26 characters within 25 slots. SSBB has 40 characters within 35 slots. Its probably not common knowledge but Sakurai counts Red, too, not just Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard. Just look at Pokemon Trainer's page on the Dojo.

No Sakurai never said that Pokemon Trainer counted as a character, and why would he anyway? Does he have any special moves himself? If you're referring to the special moves chart and where it says Pokemon Trainer's Special Moves, that is only to save a bit of space. Why would he repeat the final smash and pokemon change move three times? That is just kind of unnecessary. If anything, the DOJO!! page shows that Sakurai only counts them as three characters, just look at this:

I guess you could say using this character is like playing three for the price of one!

He said it, right there. Three characters. That shows that he doesn't count the Pokemon Trainer. Also, he has said before (I don't have a source, sorry) that there are 39 characters in the game. I remember because wherever it was, people were freaking out and claiming the game only had 35.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Jiggly may have her fully-charged B and her Down-B going for her, but that's basically it for her good attack arsenal if memory serves me right.

Her pound is good too. It has high priority and can cut through most projectiles.

 

[Arcadenik]

Red is the central focus of the Pokemon Trainer character, not the playable Pokemon. There are reasons for this:

- in Pokemon games, the Pokemon Trainers don't fight directly but they send out their Pokemon to do the battling just like what Red does in Brawl

- Pokemon Change is what all Pokemon Trainers do to switch between Pokemon just like in the games (Pokemon don't switch by themselves)

- Triple Finish is loosely inspired by double battles, only with three Pokemon out at the same time

- Pokemon Trainers choose one of three starters at the beginning of the games but Red have all three starters in Brawl

- whenever a Pokemon loses, Red switches to another Pokemon to continue battling just like in the games

- good Pokemon Trainers balance their teams with different types of Pokemon just like what Red does in Brawl

- Squirtle alone, Ivysaur alone, and Charizard alone are not any more important than each other so they are all together as equals under the Pokemon Trainer

So, while we may actually play as Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard, its only through the Pokemon Trainer that we are able to. Also, the Pokemon Trainer has his own icon along with the other playable characters, including the starters, in the end credits when you clear Classic Mode.

About Jigglypuff, I guess she will come back whether I like it or not. But her Sing needs to be improved, the opponent always wake up before she stops singing. I'd like her Sing to be more effective as Bellossom's Sleep Powder. I mean, her signature move is Sing so shouldn't it be one of her powerful moves?

 

[Fatmanonice]

I want to see Meta Knight again.
Nerfed. XD

Oh.. Jiggs will be back.
The O-12 will always be around.

Metaknight will no doubt be nerfed in the next game. All the top/high tier characters have been nerfed from the transition to Melee to Brawl, if not excessively.

Smash 64 to Melee: Ness, Pikachu, and Kirby were all nerfed... HARD. Yoshi and Luigi were nerfed. Mario, Samus, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon and Fox were buffed. Donkey Kong and Link stayed about the same.

Melee to Brawl: Captain Falcon, Fox, Jigglypuff, Samus, and Sheik were nerfed big time. Falco, Marth, Peach, Ganondorf, and Mario were nerfed. Mr. Game and Watch, Pikachu, Kirby, and Toon (Young) Link were overhauled. Ice Climbers, Zelda, Luigi, Ness, Donkey Kong, and Yoshi were buffed. Bowser and Link stayed about the same.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Jiggz has more than down b and rollout going for her.

pound
fair
bair
nair
bthrow
ledge-cancelled sing
uptilt
autocancelled dair
OoS Nair
infinite horizontal recovery a'la rising pound
5 midair jumps
2nd best aerial mobility
edgeguarding/hogging
Wall of Pain is still viable


>.>

 

[Starphoenix]

Anyone Sakurai has to create a moveset for is regarded as a character. This is why Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are all regarded as seperate characters though they all fall under one slot. The actual Pokémon Trainer himself does not constitute a playable character do to him not having an individual moveset; no more a character than the Pikmin are to Olimar.

On the subject of Pokémon, the only character I would be satisfied with replacing Mewtwo is Deoxys. He isn't first gen, he is a legendary P-mon who has a bad side to him (sorta, although that really does not matter), and he is psychic. If I had to choose a form, I want the tentacles one, whatever that form is called. Sadly though I feel being in the Pokeball hurt his chances big time.

Than again, look at Charizard in Melee...

 

[Arcadenik]

Notice that the Pokemon Trainer and the Pikmin are listed under the Fighters group when you view the trophy gallery. Hmmm... I would call them supplemental characters... characters who are needed to make the actual playable characters work in Smash. How about that?

Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard would have worked just fine on their own, except they are no more important than each other. The Pokemon Trainer unites them as equals. Olimar cannot fight effectively on his own but he is a force to be reckoned when he is joined by the Pikmin.

It could be argued that Nana is the first supplemental character since Popo would not be very effective without her. Either Ice Climber are no more important than each other so they are together as equals.

 

[SmashChu]

No priority, slow start up on many moves, doesn't do well against *******, the knee got worse. He basically got nerfed bad. Or brawls physics hurt him a lot.

2nd fastest character, strong attacks, good edge game (helped by Brawl physics), the knee got stronger (everything was stronger in Melee, the knee is a lot more powerful in proportion), good special moves, and decent range.

NEVER look at tournment Brawl as how the game is balanced. If it were, we see nothing but Meta-Knights online and they'd be winning matches (instead, we rarely see them and they never win). Ike and Link dominate Brawl, and Ike and Lucas are the ones winning.

 

[Starphoenix]

Notice that the Pokemon Trainer and the Pikmin are listed under the Fighters group when you view the trophy gallery. Hmmm... I would call them supplemental characters... characters who are needed to make the actual playable characters work in Smash. How about that?

Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard would have worked just fine on their own, except they are no more important than each other. The Pokemon Trainer unites them as equals. Olimar cannot fight effectively on his own but he is a force to be reckoned when he is joined by the Pikmin.

It could be argued that Nana is the first supplemental character since Popo would not be very effective without her. Either Ice Climber are no more important than each other so they are together as equals.

They may be supplemental, but we are discussing why Brawl has 35 slots yet Sakurai states there are 39 characters. The best way is too think of it like this one moveset=one character. Nana does not constitute an individual character, she just assist's Popo, yet they are one similar to the Pikmin and Olimar. Assisting does not equal being a playable character, we cannot control them, therefore the basic principle of being a playable character is non-existant.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

So by your logic Arcadenik, we have characters, including:

-Nana
-Popo
-Olimar
-Pikmin
-Squirtle
-Ivysaur
-Charizard
-Pokemon Trainer
-Waddle Dees
-Waddle Doos
-Gordos
-King Dedede

So looking at that list, we know there are 6 characters that are actually regarded as the real playable characters, plus 6 more that are associated with teh character. That means we have a total of 45 characters in Brawl.

Arcadenik, seriously, Pokemon Trainer, Pikmin, etc. aren't "characters" because they aren't playable and don't really have their own movesets and the such. You can't be THAT ignorant to call them characters. Nobody cares if they were listed as fighters, why does that matter? Did you even read teh quote I put up earlier?

By the way:

http://www.mywii.com.au/NewsDetail.aspx?id=2120

I'm pretty sure this interview isn't fake, it is all over teh internet and has been there for a while, if it was fake somebody would have said so earlier. Notice Sakurai says 39 characters. He is being logical. But c'mon, seriously? Pokemon Trainer and Pikmin as individual characters?

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Big surprise if we are all wrong about jiggs.
Sakurai is a gen 1 guy right? Being replaced by Meowth would be a pleasant (But almost useless) surprise.
Meowth was my favorite 10 or so years ago (Had my room filled with Meowth merch etc). But hes almost as useless as Jiggs. Koopa claw, Payday, not much else, BUT HE GOTS LIMBS! Meowth has always had a bigger role than Pikachu. Meowth plans most of the Team rocket plots and buys the mechas used. Pikachu just breaks them. No doubt our little kitty would be a great character to walk along side Ganondorf as a annoying mid-boss. BUT THEN AGAIN.. Meowth isn't ~SUPA KAWAII DESU~ like jiggs.. So there you have it. She ain't leaving bros.

Ps. Mewtwo should have had a Rocket (R) as his logo.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Big surprise if we are all wrong about jiggs.
Sakurai is a gen 1 guy right? Being replaced by Meowth would be a pleasant (But almost useless) surprise.
Meowth was my favorite 10 or so years ago (Had my room filled with Meowth merch etc). But hes almost as useless as Jiggs. Koopa claw, Payday, not much else, BUT HE GOTS LIMBS! Meowth has always had a bigger role than Pikachu. Meowth plans most of the Team rocket plots and buys the mechas used. Pikachu just breaks them. No doubt our little kitty would be a great character to walk along side Ganondorf as a annoying mid-boss. BUT THEN AGAIN.. Meowth isn't ~SUPA KAWAII DESU~ like jiggs.. So there you have it. She ain't leaving bros.

Ps. Mewtwo should have had a Rocket (R) as his logo.

I've heard that alongside Pit and King Dedede, Meowth was originally planned to be in the first Smash game, so it may happen yet. Granted, it would be a hassle to add another first-gen, but it might work better for ol' Meowth since he is more "cute" than Mewtwo (which might be one of the reasons why the latter got the shaft).

For the record, he would still use the Pokéball as a symbol like the rest of the reps. Bowser has his own symbol and he doesn't use it. Unless Meowth is the star of his own spin-off franchise (like Yoshi and Wario), he won't be able to use his own symbol. Also, the Pokémon franchise is represented by the games and not the anime. Sorry.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Well, if Jiggz is "useless", then the Japanese must really like uselessness, seeing her popularity in Japan.

And it's also my pesonal opinion that, whenever a character gets into a smash game, no matter what, they should not be cut. Even if they are hated, if they made as a character, they should be there forever.

 

[UberMario]

I've got some new ideas:

Feinting (Let's say you start with Mario's Nair, and as the starting animation plays, you switch to Fair to trick the opponent.)
Four taunts (one for each dpad direction. Left taunt on wii mote would be holding 1 and tapping 2 and vice versa)
Multiple Losing Poses (One clapping, and the other ones "sore loser" poses for the lolz (like the Ice Climbers' current losing pose)
No freefalling (Think of Snake, Mr. Game & Watch or Sonic's fall but for all characters)
Re-made movesets for MK, Ganon, Toon Link, Young Link , Kirby, and Sonic
Modified movesets for Falco, Wolf, DeDeDe, Lucas, Luigi, and Bowser

Any comments?

 

[Arcadenik]

Look, I said they are supplemental characters, not actual playable characters. I know there are 39 actual playable characters. They are all individual characters, only some of them are actual playable characters and some of them are supplemental characters. This is not something to get upset over with.

Also, just because a character gets in Smash doesn't mean that character should be playable forever in all the future Smash games. That'd be overkill if we had 100 characters from SSB, Melee, Brawl, and SSB4-7 in SSB8. Removing and replacing characters eliminate that unneeded burden. We are not going to have some outdated Pokemon and Fire Emblem characters in SSB8 if they haven't been around for 20 years. Retro characters from dead franchises are fine because they are supposed to be outdated. When you are talking about outdated characters from franchises that are still alive, they shouldn't be returning for the sake of keeping everyone playable forever.

 

[iDeo]

Just some move set changes. That's all. Everything else about the game is fine to me.

 

[Volkner582]

I can say that my roster does share some of the common elements. But I can say mine is definitely more unique then the others.

http://drag0nscythe.deviantart.com/art/Super-Smash-Bros-Fisticuffs-95625895

I read your adventure mode. It would appear that Mewtwo dies. We are NOT amused.

 

[KrazyKaiju]

I know that this is an SSB4 discussion thread, but I saw a mini-discussion regarding the 35/39-character roster and wanted to give it a shot. Here it goes (from left to right, top to bottom on selection screen):

- Mario
- Donkey Kong
- Link
- Samus
- Zero Suit Samus
- Kirby
- Fox
- Pikachu
- Marth
- Mr. Game & Watch
- Luigi
- Diddy Kong
- Zelda
- Sheik
- Pit
- Meta Knight
- Falco
- Squirtle
- Ivysaur
- Charizard
- Ike
- Snake
- Peach
- Yoshi
- Ganondorf
- Ice Climbers
- King Dedede
- Wolf
- Lucario
- Ness
- Sonic
- Bowser
- Wario
- Toon Link
- R.O.B.
- Olimar
- Captain Falcon
- Jigglypuff
- Lucas

Oh, and for SSB4, I'd like different physics (like stronger gravity).

 

[n88]

Just some move set changes. That's all. Everything else about the game is fine to me.

So basically, you want a patch for Brawl?

Why does the discussion always come back to Pokemon? I suppose it's the most controversial series in terms of who could make it in, but it'd be nice to see the topic change for a few hundred ppages or so. In an effort to end this discussion (That won't work) I've summed everything up here.

1. Pikachu

Is a lock

2. Pokemon Trainer

Will almost certainly return, possibly with new Pokemon

3. Lucario

Could get axed to make way for a new Pokemon. I'd give him a 50/50 shot at making the next game.

4. Jigglypuff

Will only get cut if Mario the Jumpman holds a gun to Sakurai's head.

5. Next-Gen Pokemon

Is practically a lock.

6. Mewtwo

Is awesome, but probably won't make it in.

7. Pichu

Isn't coming back.

8. Second PT

Is possible, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

 

[Wizzerd]

^Epic post. I would put Lucario's chances higher, maybe at 75%, but otherwise I completely agree.

 

[Arcadenik]

I believe that there should be only one Pokemon Trainer in SSB4. Either Red and his 1st gen starters stay or they all get replaced with Gold and his 2nd gen starters.

The only way we could possibly get representation for all four generations and the possible future 5th generation in SSB4 is if we have:

1. Pikachu
2. Pichu
3. Pokemon Trainer (May with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken)
4. Lucario
5. 5th gen movie Pokemon

Its possible but I highly doubt it would happen. The way I see it, SSB4 would probably have the following:

1. Pikachu
2. Pokemon Trainer (either Red or Gold, not both)
3. 5th gen Pokemon
4. ?
5. ?

Those two last slots are up for grabs. Its likely that Jigglypuff might return. Its also possible that Mewtwo or Lucario might return, but its also possible that Sakurai might surprise us by adding Meowth (just like he surprised us with Pokemon Trainer in Brawl). Remember, Meowth is next-in-line after Red (and Red is next-in-line after Mewtwo) on the Melee poll.

 

[n88]

In an effort to change the subject, what do people think about having a Team Battle mode more like that of other fighting games? (Not replacing the current team battle, but as an extra thing) Basically, you play a stock match with a number of stocks equal to the number of characters you select. When your first character dies, the next spawns.

For example, P1 takes Mario, Link, and Kirby. P2 takes Bowser, Ganondorf, and King Dedede. P1 spawns as Mario and P2 spawns as Bowser. If P2 dies, instead of respawning as Bowser, he respawns as Ganondorf. If P1 dies, he respawns as Link. Etc, etc.