Official Snake Q&A Area

[PEACE7]

What characters can I c4 stick after a Dthrow? or is it possible on all of them?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think it's dependent on how long they take to get up or something. I'm possibly wrong though.

 

[PEACE7]

Yea i think it might but I was wondering if it like depends on the weight or something of the character?

 

[Conviction]

.

 

[PEACE7]

I wonder if there's a thread or something about it or someone that knows for sure

 

[Attila_]

with nair it is completely about spacing.

notice that ALL of snake's nair hitboxes are BELOW and ABOVE his leg? now notice that there is no hitbox on his foot?

that's your reason.

hit him from the front and you'll beat it. come from below or above and nair wins.

 

[Conviction]

Ahhh thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Kuro~]

What characters can I c4 stick after a Dthrow? or is it possible on all of them?

You can not indefinitely stick anyone out of a d-throw if they choose an immediate response.

 

[PEACE7]

You can not indefinitely stick anyone out of a d-throw if they choose an immediate response.

Alright thanks bro good to know

 

[KirbyIRL]

You guys know about the sonic glitch where if you do a soft landing after upb'ing from the bottom of the screen the next time you jump you're in his post-upb state right?

If you don't then check it out.

Well snake has the same thing. If you up-b relatively close to the bottom of the screen so that you do a soft landing ('soft' landings basically have you end up instantly in the standing animation, i.e. not with the landing animation. If you have the rumble feature turned on you can confirm you've done the soft landing right if your controller doesn't vibrate when you land.), the next time you end your first jump or double jump animation you immediately enter the state you're in after you up-b. You can still use aerials and b moves (unlike sonic who can only use regular aerials) but you can't upb again.

jw

tl;dr If you land from your upb without doing the landing animation the game doesn't register that you've landed yet so you can't upb the next time you jump.

 

[KMFBrawler]

You guys know about the sonic glitch where if you do a soft landing after upb'ing from the bottom of the screen the next time you jump you're in his post-upb state right?

If you don't then check it out.

Well snake has the same thing. If you up-b relatively close to the bottom of the screen so that you do a soft landing ('soft' landings basically have you end up instantly in the standing animation, i.e. not with the landing animation. If you have the rumble feature turned on you can confirm you've done the soft landing right if your controller doesn't vibrate when you land.), the next time you end your first jump or double jump animation you immediately enter the state you're in after you up-b. You can still use aerials and b moves (unlike sonic who can only use regular aerials) but you can't upb again.

jw

tl;dr If you land from your upb without doing the landing animation the game doesn't register that you've landed yet so you can't upb the next time you jump.

Good to know, thnx. But won't happen much, since Snake's recover from above or c4 themselves.

 

[phi1ny3]

What do you guys think of grounded pivot grenades? I thought that might be a better way to get access to reverse facing grenades instead of walking towards them backwards facing making really obvious lol, and it allows you to control your spacing fairly well. The only problem is that you can't use it like an approach obviously because pulling out a grenade like that near an opponent in general is a bad idea rofl.

 

[Wilmenz]

What do you guys think of grounded pivot grenades? I thought that might be a better way to get access to reverse facing grenades instead of walking towards them backwards facing making really obvious lol, and it allows you to control your spacing fairly well. The only problem is that you can't use it like an approach obviously because pulling out a grenade like that near an opponent in general is a bad idea rofl.

I always do these when i run away from my opponent into camp position or kind of close to my opponent then walk away a bit,shield drop it and Bair OOS while catching a nade if it hits throw the nade at them, if not DJ throw the nade down,etc... there are lots of mixups also B reversing when you run out of a platform is good

 

[Ralph Cecil]

This has probably already been asked, but what's the best way to learn MUs that you don't really get to play all to often, because I got wrecked at a tourney this weekend? >_<

 

[F A N G]

Well first watch videos and read as much as you can about the other character.

You could play Wifi, etecoon was asking on the AiB free play chat for snake friendlies one day to learn the MU. You could do something similar, but make sure you play to learn, not to win

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Also how do you deal with Sheik, & TL, because it was really awkward for me to play as well. o-o

EDIT:Also i'll probably try to play wifi more, because that for some reason just helps me play in general.

 

[F A N G]

Also how do you deal with Sheik, & TL, because it was really awkward for me to play as well. o-o

EDIT:Also i'll probably try to play wifi more, because that for some reason just helps me play in general.

TL practice on Wifi is terrible... can't PS anything. Keep track of his projectiles and (TL's perspective)

"DO NOT BECOME PREDICTABLE. This is probably the biggest issue in this Match Up for Toon Link. The snake players at one point will realize that they need to try and catch TL as he is coming down from the ground instead of trying to camp TL back. At this point, they will be looking for patterns. Remember to mix it up or snake will be able to catch you and he will easily get a good amount of damage"

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Honestly, that is it. Do wifi to learn the basic tricks of the characters.The rest of the practice comes from trying to apply what you learned in actual matches.

Anyway, what do you feel you have troubles with against shiek/TL?

Shiek you can wreck her recovery simply by grabbing the ledge. Occasionally, they might try to use her tether recovery since it is faster than her other methods of getting to the ledge. So, grabbing the ledge can ruin that, if not, it forces her to get on stage. Although, you have to be the judge to know if you grabbed the ledge too early and need to get the **** off.

You cannot crouch her needles, so don't bother. Ftilt lock is fairly easy to get out of at low percents, DI towards the ground to try to roll out or do something. At higher percents, DIing out (upwards) is best as it gets you out of the lock at the very least as Shiek has to continue with an aerial (or wait for you to hit the ground again to do something). You can try using the nade too, but does not always work. Honestly, there is no one way to get out of the lock, mostly you try to change it up to get them to do an extra ftilt when they shouldn't have, or something like that.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Against TL it was just trying to get inside on their camping, because they had such a wall of projectiles that it was hard to move, & when I shielded a bomb they'd just grab it in the air, & keep the pressure coming.

For Sheik it was keeping on the stage, & keeping up with them up close. I was edge guarded very strongly. T_T

 

[Attila_]

i don't have shiek experience, so I won't comment on that.

however, against tl, the most important thing is covering his landing. to camp he needs to jump, if he jumps, he needs to land. this is where you can trap him. c4s and nades help corral him to landing in a certain zone, and all you've got to do is stop him from landing. dash attack hits before he can zair, and it clanks with boomerang; the only projectile that can hit you on that angle. feel free to mix it up with grabs; its pretty much a free ftilt.

for me that's the main approach to the mu.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

For Sheik it was keeping on the stage, & keeping up with them up close. I was edge guarded very strongly. T_T

Yeah, its seems like you got overwhelmed by the mix-ups Shiek has at that range. Not much to practice for that other than recognize where you can attack because they gave you some breathing room to do something (even if small).

So, if they go for jab cancels, she is close enough for you to jab back and mess up the jab cancels. You could roll out of the way as soon as you get jabbed too. There are aerials to watch out for too at close range. Ftilt usually means shiek advantage and snake takes extra damage.

Otherwise, Snake usually gets wrecked once airnborn by any character.

Again, you need to play them more often, try out different things, get frustrated, then you finally see the light.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

=D That's awesome, because that's mainly what got to me was jab cancelling. For forward tilt I found that you can just pull a grenade out during it, but jab cancelling just left me lost. I think being able to roll, & jabbing out of it will make things easier. ^_^

 

[Reyney]

i have two really good shieks in my region. biggad and light.
so ill tell you some things i have at the top of my head in this MU.

get out of ftilt to everything with grenades, but stop with it if the shiek player is smarth enough and grabs you when u keep pulling nades after first ftilt.

DI is really important.
hold away from the stage for every throw or they have a garantueed followup.

dont be predictaple with your recovery. and second jumps respectively.
once they fair or bair you out of your second jump ur dead or have A LOT of %.

shiek is a bait and punish character. so dont get baitet lol.
they like to: airdodge behind you. run past you and pivot grab. shielddash. wait for airdodges.

be sparingly with your grenades, or needles will blow them up.

try to stay at mid range to them, and mix up you approaches while doing so.
they will just grab your shielddash when u keep approaching with it to shield needles.

keep in mind that they cant kill you if you dont get gimped. dont get frustrated because they can rack up damage really fast at low%. their only reliable killmove is usmash. so watch out for dacus and try to avoid airdodging into them. if you do so they shouldnt be able to kill you until 180% soonest with good DI.

 

[phi1ny3]

I love this MU w/ sheik. Basically, sheik only gets like 1-2 ftilts before a grenade can interrupt it (I want to confirm whether being frame perfect with ftilt or not solves this, but either way, meh), grenade camping is not very good against sheik, her mobility makes it hard to pressure/limit her with grenades if she's aware that doing a SH over them and doesn't let snake cook them. btw, don't come down with a grenade (or if you do, sparingly) if she has fully charged needles, you take tons of damage if she throws out the needles early to catch your air dodge or landing.

It's annoying when Snake gets a dthrow, because sheik's options are terrible from getup. The biggest one I'd worry about is probably regular getup in place, because sheik gets a lot of reward for incorrect punishment (although it's one of the easiest to cover with good reflexes). Snake's aerials are actually pretty good for punishing bad juggling attempts, because she doesn't have the hitboxes on bair/fair/nair to stop your bair easily, just watch out for uair, utilt, and dsmash traps (since her legs/hitbox is on top, it'll always trump bair and most of snake's aerials, make sure to just b-reverse as a mixup to make your landing hard to catch). don't try shieldgrabbing jab jab -> dtilt if you DI the jabs and shield after dtilt, just ftilt oos.

Never ftilt without some extra pressure, sheik's DA and jab oos are very good for punishing, especially both ftilts on shield. Use jab to throw off sheik's mixups at times, and especially trap her landing w/ it, you can sometimes force the AD landing from them if you have a grenade nearby and jab where they're going to land.

Just don't AD predictably, don't land predictably, and make sure you recover smart, and make sure you make her trade, she's so fragile that even on semi-correct guesses, if you trade with her, she's going to lose down the road because of how light she is. Oh yeah, and take the ledge she she recovers, for extra lulz plant a mine about where you think she'll vanish onstage. It's fairly even, just don't be stupid and overconfident and Snake should edge out sheik because of her difficulty in killing. If you DI throws away from sheik, they'll usually do a run -> RAR bair (like what Earth does) or my favorite, dash -> full hop lagless needles for extra damage.

edit: Reyney's post was pretty spot on, also laugh at them if they go Zelda for some odd reason for trying to kill, and don't fall for SH AD -> usmash/dtilt stuff. Zelda is terribad

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Oh yeah, and take the ledge when she recovers, for extra lulz plant a mine about where you think she'll vanish onstage.

I have always thought that using C4 was better than a mine. It is faster to place and you can detonate it quickly from the ledge to regrab the ledge or to go on stage with it. Plus, it has the added benefit of hitting through platforms from the stage if she happens to go on a platform or stage.

 

[phi1ny3]

^That works too

 

[Kuro~]

I've always preferrred this...

Mine where i think they are gonna land after i ledgehog C4 at another spot to restrict options/have as a backup. E.g. i usually set a mine fartherish from the ledge and have a c4 right on the ledge. Cuz then you can just ledgedrop now and tech it. Real ez.

I have a stupid question-what are the inputs for b-reversal? Or rather, the order. And does the direcitonal input have to be opposite to your momentum? Or is it just timing? And if it does have to be opposite why is it when you cypher this way (<----) while facing this way (---->) you can b-reverse in either direction?

I mean, i've been doing these for a while but i can't seem to discern it myself exactly lol.

Only asking cuz i'm having trouble implementing something new i saw some JPN player do that SHOULD be easy for me -.-


Oh ya, what's the difference between wavebounce and b-reverse?

 

[F A N G]

I've always preferrred this...

Mine where i think they are gonna land after i ledgehog C4 at another spot to restrict options/have as a backup. E.g. i usually set a mine fartherish from the ledge and have a c4 right on the ledge. Cuz then you can just ledgedrop now and tech it. Real ez.

I have a stupid question-what are the inputs for b-reversal? Or rather, the order. And does the direcitonal input have to be opposite to your momentum? Or is it just timing? And if it does have to be opposite why is it when you cypher this way (<----) while facing this way (---->) you can b-reverse in either direction?

I mean, i've been doing these for a while but i can't seem to discern it myself exactly lol.

Only asking cuz i'm having trouble implementing something new i saw some JPN player do that SHOULD be easy for me -.-


Oh ya, what's the difference between wavebounce and b-reverse?

Well you have a lot of thoughts, I'll try and cover them all. (This is not going by the Smash Lab's Term List btw)

B-Reverse - Turning around without any change in momentum. [Input opposite direction > B] Stick must return to neutral before you press B. Timing is pretty lax

Wavebounce - Reversing your momentum in the opposite direction, while facing the opposite direction [B > Input opposite direction] Opposite direction must be inputted within 4 frames of pressing B

There's another one, where you get a momentum boost in the direction you're facing, and the inputs are [B-Reverse > Wavebounce]. The Smash Lab calls this Wavebouncing, and I've seen it called SMS (Special Momentum Shift), but no one does it, so it's not very standardized

 

[Kuro~]

Ohhhhh interesting. I got some tests to run then. Thanks.

 

[Reyney]

i always thought
wavebounce = b-reversal (perform special with changing your momentum)
reverse-b (face in the other direction after the special, but without changing momentum)

 

[F A N G]

What would you say is Snake's worst stage?

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I've always heard Snake's worst was Brinstar. o-o

 

[Kuro~]

Well you have a lot of thoughts, I'll try and cover them all. (This is not going by the Smash Lab's Term List btw)

B-Reverse - Turning around without any change in momentum. [Input opposite direction > B] Stick must return to neutral before you press B. Timing is pretty lax

Wavebounce - Reversing your momentum in the opposite direction, while facing the opposite direction [B > Input opposite direction] Opposite direction must be inputted within 4 frames of pressing B

There's another one, where you get a momentum boost in the direction you're facing, and the inputs are [B-Reverse > Wavebounce]. The Smash Lab calls this Wavebouncing, and I've seen it called SMS (Special Momentum Shift), but no one does it, so it's not very standardized

After messing around with the knowledge of actually knowing why and how it happens...it solved all my problems. So ty

 

[False]

lets talk about ****ing d3.

This guy is so annoying. One slight mistake and you've accumulated 40+ dmg

 

[Reyney]

i think d3 is not as bad as ppl may think.
my mindset is playing a semi campy style. i think its better than camping 100% cause if u make one slight mistake you get a lot of damage. the risk/reward is not as good.

i try pressuring him with nades around.
gettin him in the air is pretty key in this mu, form there you can get grabs (veeeery easy techchase) or punish airdodge landing with sh dair.
if you get him offstage once he should only be able to come back with very high % or get killed.

my 2 cents

 

[Zajice]

lets talk about ****ing d3.

This guy is so annoying. One slight mistake and you've accumulated 40+ dmg

Isn't it that way against everyone?

lolgetjuggled

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Lol against D3 I never leave the platforms and camp with C4, & grenades like crazy lol. Also dair is beast against him. =D

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Why is it that sometimes when I pick up Snake's grenades I immediately drop them?

 

[F A N G]

If you aren't getting grenade stripped, then you're probably catching it with an airdodge and pressing A/Z. Pretty much like dropping with Z, except combined with an Airdodge.

It's possible to randomly drop items (can happen with Diddy when getting him sometimes), but the grenade would explode if that happened so...

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Well like sometimes I pick them up then I try to jump and throw them back with A but I realize the grande fell for no reason and I do the throwing animation but I don't throw anything then the grenade explodes