Official PAL Tier List (Melee)

[nofx4president]

'Right now they play with what they know and clearly it's not working, but I don't believe this is because she's undeniabley the best, more that Mango and Hbox are exceptionally difficult to beat with her in current meta game.'

i agree with robby.

now im obviously nowhere near the level of amsah/armada/mango/hbox etc, but this week i played who is considered best dutch jiggz, and my marth got ***** most matches. after a few hours, still playing the same matchup, i got better and discovered which things worked and which things didnt.

my point being, its an experience thing. jiggs is good, but not the best imo.

 

[J03]

how broken is sheik in NTSC, yet theres no american sheiks in the top 10. but she doesnt move in the tier list because everyone knows her potential.

Jiggs isnt broken, shes light as hell and dies below 100% like all the time, and you CAN combo her into a killing move with so many higher tier characters.
We now know jiggs abilites and how amazing her game can be. Its relatively safe to assume that jiggs is considered amazing atm as the top 2 in the world are jiggs players. but give it a few months to a year and jiggs wont be as dominating, just like weve seen the rise and fall of sheik, marth, the spacies and recently peach, we will also see jiggs be put in her place as the metagame evolves as it always does.

Basically jiggs and peach should be higher on the tier list AT THIS MOMENT, but itll differ and change as time passes. instead of argueing which char is better then which char in an ineffective linear tier list with a short lifespan, itd be more effective to group characters together into the abilities. essentially putting the empthasis more on the 'tiers' rather then the 'list'

 

[NeutralDamage]

Jiggs has been winning all the major(not including some EU tourneys) tourneys since pound3, and that was over 2 years now. So it isn't just one win, or one month, or not even one year. If someone would have said that Jiggs is the best after pound3, I would have said the same thing you say now. But because of that over 2 year domination, I do think Jiggs is the best atm.

Tier-lists never tell the absolute truth though, so I might very well be wrong, but imo we got to go with the evidence we have from top-level play.

 

[Nihonjin]

Marc, Amsah and some other euro's got beaten (bad?) by Jiggz at pound and now they instantly think she is top-tier (best in the game?) in the PAL version.

I was actually saying that before Pound..
Me losing to HungryBox has nothing to do with it.

Jiggs isnt broken, shes light as hell and dies below 100% like all the time

No she doesn't.

And you CAN combo her into a killing move with so many higher tier characters.

Not with Sheik. Not with Marth. Not with Peach. Not with Falco. Ok, sometimes with Fox.

We now know jiggs abilites and how amazing her game can be. Its relatively safe to assume that jiggs is considered amazing atm as the top 2 in the world are jiggs players. but give it a few months to a year and jiggs wont be as dominating, just like weve seen the rise and fall of sheik, marth, the spacies and recently peach, we will also see jiggs be put in her place as the metagame evolves as it always does.

That's speculation at best. Besides, even if it turns out like that, it still doesn't change she's the best character in PAL. In NTSC, not so much, but in PAL I don't see how anyone can argue otherwise..

 

[J03]

well, i aint gonna argue with amsah, im out guys xD

 

[VA]

I don't agree that she's the best character in PAL. I don't think her match ups are as strong as other characters, I think to play her in a way that guarentees victory you need to be Mango or Hbox. I can understand that her weaknesses right now seem limited but Mango has won many tournaments without using her. Not nationals granted but still if you're going to claim she has so much dominance using evidence then you have to be clear about it.

Hbox went EXTREMELY close with M2k, a player who I believe lacks the confidence to take on Mango regardless of character and has a big fear of jiggz due to his throne effectively being usurped by her.

I think it's a tendency of players to look at which characters are winning tournaments and excuse victories for character ability not player ability. This is why tiers are so difficult to construct. We need to look at character strengths and weaknesses as objectively as possible. We learn what we can learn from the metagame but it's imperative to be aware of player ability as a part of it.

The example of Mango vs Armada says it all really. Two characters that are technically not top tier, in the grand finals. Armada really had Mango. Mango won not because of Jiggz but through his own ability and mental strength. You can't say Jiggz won it for him or vice versa. Tiers don't really apply to the top of the game because if you're good enough, you can use anyone really. They're for helping players understand the strengths and weaknesses of characters relative to the metagame. At top play, Mango and Hbox are making Jiggz win, not the other way around and this needs to be acknowledged. Just the same way that a Peach has never been as good as Armada before, it's not a reason for her to go drastically up into the #1 spot. Is that what we would be saying if he got 1st at pound 4 and genesis?

People would be looking at her recovery and saying it's broken and all of the things they're saying about Jiggz right now. Just spend time developing tactics and analysing her match ups and the top europeans will beat her soon imo.

 

[VA]

No she doesn't.

yes, she does.

watch this and see every % she dies on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNqjMCuJaTo

 

[Kone]

Im just happy for jiggly that she is doing so well. Well done jiggs =)

 

[VA]

lol in a game where many characters kill you from a grab I think it's dumb that everyone is so upset about jiggz at the moment xD

I hate her though.

 

[Slhoka]

yes, she does.

watch this and see every % she dies on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNqjMCuJaTo

I'm don't think this point is that relevant. Yes, she dies under 100% every time (same for the set against ColBol). But that's against Fox, the best character to kill Jiggs as low percents, and it's NTSC which means Jiggs dies at even lower percents.

Against most other characters, especially those who get more horizontal kills like Sheik, Jiggs goes above 100% quite often.

 

[VA]

Fox still has uair at the same strength which is what most of the kills came from. Tactics need to change in order to deal with her. People need to zone her to the edge and grab her on platforms and stuff with fox. Dthrow her, force techs and punish.

With Marth, the tipper dsmash has as much vertical killing power as the tipper has horizontal, why aren't people working this into the game?

There's things to think about in approaching the match up and I think it's lame to idly accept her as number one based on the performance of 1-2 players :/

Silentspectre has had some success against mango's Jiggz cos he's innovative. He throws out random usmashes which are really effective against her due to the capture of the hitbox. She dies off the top so sheik players can't sit back and accept her dying on over 100% off the side, they have to work to kill her off the top. This is my way of seeing it anyway...

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

I'd have to agree with jiggs being top tier in PAL, but where yet to truly see a good PAL jiggs so its hard to put her at the top off of a couple theory's about a certain player. If anything I would just add her to high tier below peach until we see some solid tourney results. My vote is still for jiggs #1 though... but it just doesn't seem viable atm with the lack of jiggs representation.

 

[VA]

I'm not saying she's not good, I just odn't believe we have sufficient reason to put her at the top spot. And PAL evidence doesn't really matter that much when our top players have lost to Mango/Hbox in a version where soe of their characters are buffed.

 

[J03]

Robby your last few posts on the matter have been extremely amazing.

tier list wise i belive that peach and jiggs should both go up a small amount but for different reasons.

Peach-Although its only really Armada capable of playing peach at her current peak, he has shown us so many different things with peach which just werent used before, even if you take out Armadas mindgame aspects he has added many things to the character basically making her i much more fearsome character in terms of potential.

Jiggs-You cant really shield vs her due to the enormous amount of disgusting things she can do to you when your sat in your big bubble. Seeing as shield pressure is becoming a larger part of smash in the current metagame this advancement cannot be ignored.

If anyone is wondering who would come down a space or two i think either sheik, marth or falco.

Falco has an amazing aggressive game and thanks to players such as DSW,L.chops, Dr.PP and Zhu we have seen just how amazing these can be as well as countless tricks. BUT his recovery is terrible and unless you can keep up your game all day your going to get caught. As amsah has said to me. 'with technical characters your going to end the day worse off then you started because of how tiring they are'. In a nutshell i beleive falco has become stronger, but his defense will never become stronger unless you use surprising tricks which can be easily adpated to.

Marth- recently his matchups against BOTH peach and jiggs have been heavily modified and untill he 'reboots' he is the most likely to drop places imo.

Sheik- Similar to Marth her matchups vs peach and jiggs are now considered even or in peach/jiggs favour. the tier list should reflect this.

 

[Zephynazo]

If anyone is going down on the tier list (IN PAL) it is Marth.

 

[jalued]

Silentspectre has had some success against mango's Jiggz cos he's innovative. He throws out random usmashes which are really effective against her due to the capture of the hitbox. She dies off the top so sheik players can't sit back and accept her dying on over 100% off the side, they have to work to kill her off the top. This is my way of seeing it anyway...

wait a minute.. PAL sheik killing Jigglypuff off the top?? let's get some perspective...

Amsah had real problems in NTSC against Jigglypuff. He is considered the best sheik in the world.

Now lets play PAL, where Sheik's upair kills 37% later, dthrow to upair isnt a legit kill combo and Upsmash sweetspot is weaker

Marth is lighter and cannot spike her

Fox is lighter and cannot kill her as easily due to upsmash nerf

And Jigglypuff plays exactly the same, kills at the same %, edgeguards as efficiently and has the same bair WoP

Europeans are deluding themselves about Jigglypuff's potential in PAL

 

[Infernum]

Biscuit and me not winning any tournament doesn't mean that Jiggs shouldn't be higher on the list (at least higher than Sheik...). Still, I placed top 5 and 7 at my two last tourneys (ESA3 and TSL4), and Biscuit gets top 5 most of the time (or even all the time) in Holland (ZEST series), where the average level is higher than in any other european country.
We are the only 2 pure Jiggly players known throughout Europe, we don't attend many tournaments BUT we always get a very good placing.

Jiggly is at least = to all the top tier characters in NTSC (well, all but Fox imo), so in PAL she is just superior.

 

[Luma]

if Inf or Biscuit would get better every top-player in EU would also get more used to jiggs and be able to adapt -> you might get ****ed again