Fletch
Smash Master
All meteors would be much better, I don't think removing meteor canceling would be a good idea (except I would make Falco's spike more like the PAL version to not make him completely terrible at comboing).
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
- Status
Owndizzl3r_Ownag3
Smash Apprentice
hmm wow GnW is higher than i expected, but good thing he dominates in brawl now!! :D
sro2
Smash Rookie
I main as Marth, so I'm Really happy he finally at least tied with fox!
Top Tier!
Top Tier!
LieutenantSerg
Smash Lord
Marth was always good lol
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
It's not like he had anywhere to fall
duals
Smash Journeyman
all taj..... he was even par with azen in one match...it was godly....
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
A-Laon
Smash Master
Having been rated the same, was the decision to place Fox above Marth merely a matter of alphabetical order?
If not, Fox is still getting too much acclaim. =P
Falco's placed properly for the first time. =D
If not, Fox is still getting too much acclaim. =P
Falco's placed properly for the first time. =D
D20
Smash Lord
If you carry the decimals out further, Fox's average is slightly higher than Marth's.
philbobjoe
Smash Journeyman
Well Kirby is pretty squishy.
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
Ha, Derek, you suck with Marth, you can't kill with him. You're better with... well, you aren't good with anyone. =P I wish you were better... though you have been playing Melee for only about a year, I guess you're pretty good for such a short period.
HiIH
Smash Lord
Why the **** isn't Roy in the Ph1r3!1 tier yet!?
The better question is why Ph1r3!1 isn't a tier yet.
I'm satisfied with C. Falcon's placement. Just high enough where people know to show some respect when I break him out, but low enough to surprise people (who don't know I main him) and just sexy enough to be the closest thing to getting laid I'll come to while playing video games.
Wind Owl
Smash Lord
Obviously I don't know either of you, but that's a pretty douchebag thing to say...
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
^ definetly agree.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
sheik is the best, marth is 3rd
JBM falcon08
Smash Master
Mew2king how is sheik better than fox?
i am curious.
i am curious.
VA
Smash Hero
blah blah blah m2k, change the record. you're too logical with your approach to tiers, you basically calculate them with math.
I guess it comes down to the definition of "tier", m2k judges it purely on match ups, not outcomes. This is why you can say sheik is best with some confidence as no one knows the game better than you and you can claim to be pretty much 100% right on match ups. I don't actually know how this tier was made; how you would weight tournament results and etc but basically they've come out this way for a reason. Also would you look at the high end tournament finals? Marth being easier to be consistant (win) with = marth best ok?
Sheik dominates PAL for version differences/playstyle differences only.
I guess it comes down to the definition of "tier", m2k judges it purely on match ups, not outcomes. This is why you can say sheik is best with some confidence as no one knows the game better than you and you can claim to be pretty much 100% right on match ups. I don't actually know how this tier was made; how you would weight tournament results and etc but basically they've come out this way for a reason. Also would you look at the high end tournament finals? Marth being easier to be consistant (win) with = marth best ok?
Sheik dominates PAL for version differences/playstyle differences only.
Well, in my experience I've seen that tier lists ARE based on overall match-ups. The Street fighter III: 3rd Strike tier list,for example, is based on the match-up differences. For example, Chun-Li has a 7-3 advantage over Ryu, which gives Chun two points and Ryu a -2. Once the totals are tallied, the character with the highest total is placed at the top, and it goes from there, with big point differences being represented in a tier separation.
With that kind of system, I can see where M2K's coming from.
thesage
Smash Hero
Sheik was nerfed in pal lol
choknater
Smash Obsessed
???
I thought she was the best character in PAL.
I thought she was the best character in PAL.
thesage
Smash Hero
She is considered to be the best character in the game by the Europeans, but out of all the top tier characters, she received the most changes in the PAL version.
Fletch
Smash Master
I'm really surprised she's still considered top over there. Without her monster d-throw, I just can't believe she's nearly as effective. Maybe the Europeans know something we don't? I think Fox, Marth, or Falco should be the best over there, it just doesn't make any sense (yes they were nerfed, but I don't think they had anything as earth-shattering as the d-throw change, especially Falco's).
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
Yup her dthrow did changed so that it sends them away much more then it does in the NTSC version. Rather then popping them straight up. it's like falcon's dthrow.
To be honest, it is still very effective and I don't think it makes as big off a difference as people think. Dthrow can still lead to atleast a dash attack on most chars (if they di correctly) and you can still combo off off that (except at very low percent).
Fox's usmash nerf and Marth not having a spike is quite a big deal, to. Especially considering how good people are at smash DI'ing fox's Uair these days... It really limits fox's KO options. Usmash is still very good, but it won't kill at stupid percentages like in NTSC.
(i have played ntsc aswell btw)
To be honest, it is still very effective and I don't think it makes as big off a difference as people think. Dthrow can still lead to atleast a dash attack on most chars (if they di correctly) and you can still combo off off that (except at very low percent).
Fox's usmash nerf and Marth not having a spike is quite a big deal, to. Especially considering how good people are at smash DI'ing fox's Uair these days... It really limits fox's KO options. Usmash is still very good, but it won't kill at stupid percentages like in NTSC.
(i have played ntsc aswell btw)
Vts
Smash Champion
didn't know that fox's up smash was nerfed anything else really change for them?
VA
Smash Hero
Quoted for lie/fail.
Fox has the most changes although they are all nerfs, sheik has a lot of changes that aren't all necessarily nerfs. Her uthrow combos instead of killing, her dthrow has a different set of options presented that are similar, like they must DI away everytime or get hit by ftilt fair/regrab what have you. If they don't you can hit most characters with dash attack which ofc leads into other stuff. It's really irritating to hear comments about who should be where on PAL, instead of being ignorant and making comments about it, go read some of the stickies like PAL tier list or the version differences, it might help you understand.
Grunt
Smash Master
Marth falls over from fox's shine amirite?
Apples
Smash Apprentice
Nope. Only Jangles, Game & Jub, Fuxx, and Flacco.
Kirby might too... I don't really see much of that guy though so I don't know.
Oh wait... if that's asking about the PAL version idk.
Wind Owl
Smash Lord
... Who the **** is Jangles?
Skler
Smash Master
Probably jiggs.
Or Mr. Bo Jangles.
Or Mr. Bo Jangles.
Fletch
Smash Master
Isn't Sheik number one on the PAL tier list? I was under the impression that was out of date anyways though.
thesage
Smash Hero
That's what I thought. >_>;
D-throw to running attack is nowhere near as helpful has d-throw to, well a lot of stuff. Uair is a combo move (didn't know this that much before), but it doesn't really matter since most sheiks get kos from gimps and edgeguarding anyways. It only makes a difference vs. Peach. Fair was also nerfed in killing power. ~three changes
Fox can't waveshine Marth (dunno about other characters) and kills at lower percents. ~2 changes (edit I forgot he's lighter so 3 changes but weight usually doesn't matter that much >_>; )
Marth has a meteor smash instead of a spike. I also think he's a little lighter but I'm not sure.
It's easier to gentleman with C. Falcon.
Falco's dair needs to sweetspot to spike.
That's what I know happened to the important characters. And despite these changes some PAl players made a tier list with Sheik on top. I personally would've put Marth at the top but w/e.
lol what? You mean Uair, right? Because of the fact her moves are weaker, her combo potential has been increased in PAL except out of grabs. But yeah... um, uthrow didn't kill in NTSC, so yeah haha.
----
Other changes
Marth's Dair doesn't spike (it's a meteor) and Marth falls from Fox's shine
Fox is slightly weaker and lighter
Falco's Dair spikes basically the way it does in Brawl
Whenever I go over the PAL changes, I always come to thinking that Marth should be the best since he's the least nerfed and has an even easier time in the Fox matchup. But I'm beginning to realize why they have Sheik where she is.
Fletch
Smash Master
It's true, someone tested it on Yoshi's Island IIRC, it is just a bit shorter.
MikeHaggarTHAKJB
Smash Master
This is not entirely true. You don't need to sweetspot it, you just need to time it (not hard to do). It's like a sex kick but where only the first part of it spikes.
You where right about everything else tho.
IMO, falco was the least nerfed out of all the top tier chars.
And yes, marth does fall from the shine and fox's firefox is slightly longer. The difference is small but it's there.
Vanityangel, I don't get why you start attacking thesage at all, he wasn't really wrong about anything he said. >.> He didn't say that sheik had the most nerfs (out of the top tiers), he just said changes. And sheik is on top of the PAL tier list... so what wrong did he do? >.>
HiIH
Smash Lord
If Mr. Bo Jangles was in the PAL smash, I think I might move to Europe as soon as possible.
- Status