• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official MBR Tier List

Status
Not open for further replies.

Fletch

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
3,046
Location
Shablagoo!!
......I hate my grammar.

Yes. That or make all Meteors true spikes.
All meteors would be much better, I don't think removing meteor canceling would be a good idea (except I would make Falco's spike more like the PAL version to not make him completely terrible at comboing).
 

A-Laon

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2006
Messages
3,873
Location
Where it all went wrong
Having been rated the same, was the decision to place Fox above Marth merely a matter of alphabetical order?

If not, Fox is still getting too much acclaim. =P

Falco's placed properly for the first time. =D
 

D20

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
1,602
Location
Pittsburgh
If you carry the decimals out further, Fox's average is slightly higher than Marth's.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
I main as Marth, so I'm Really happy he finally at least tied with fox!
Top Tier!
Ha, Derek, you suck with Marth, you can't kill with him. You're better with... well, you aren't good with anyone. =P I wish you were better... though you have been playing Melee for only about a year, I guess you're pretty good for such a short period.
 

Sophos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
38
Location
Fairfield
Why the **** isn't Roy in the Ph1r3!1 tier yet!?
The better question is why Ph1r3!1 isn't a tier yet.

I'm satisfied with C. Falcon's placement. Just high enough where people know to show some respect when I break him out, but low enough to surprise people (who don't know I main him) and just sexy enough to be the closest thing to getting laid I'll come to while playing video games.
 

Wind Owl

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
1,856
Location
Suburbs of Philadelphia, PA
Ha, Derek, you suck with Marth, you can't kill with him. You're better with... well, you aren't good with anyone. =P I wish you were better... though you have been playing Melee for only about a year, I guess you're pretty good for such a short period.
Obviously I don't know either of you, but that's a pretty douchebag thing to say...
 

VA

Smash Hero
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
5,004
Location
Brighton, UK
blah blah blah m2k, change the record. you're too logical with your approach to tiers, you basically calculate them with math.

I guess it comes down to the definition of "tier", m2k judges it purely on match ups, not outcomes. This is why you can say sheik is best with some confidence as no one knows the game better than you and you can claim to be pretty much 100% right on match ups. I don't actually know how this tier was made; how you would weight tournament results and etc but basically they've come out this way for a reason. Also would you look at the high end tournament finals? Marth being easier to be consistant (win) with = marth best ok?

Sheik dominates PAL for version differences/playstyle differences only.
 

'Fro

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,340
blah blah blah m2k, change the record. you're too logical with your approach to tiers, you basically calculate them with math.

I guess it comes down to the definition of "tier", m2k judges it purely on match ups, not outcomes. This is why you can say sheik is best with some confidence as no one knows the game better than you and you can claim to be pretty much 100% right on match ups. I don't actually know how this tier was made; how you would weight tournament results and etc but basically they've come out this way for a reason. Also would you look at the high end tournament finals? Marth being easier to be consistant (win) with = marth best ok?

Sheik dominates PAL for version differences/playstyle differences only.

Well, in my experience I've seen that tier lists ARE based on overall match-ups. The Street fighter III: 3rd Strike tier list,for example, is based on the match-up differences. For example, Chun-Li has a 7-3 advantage over Ryu, which gives Chun two points and Ryu a -2. Once the totals are tallied, the character with the highest total is placed at the top, and it goes from there, with big point differences being represented in a tier separation.

With that kind of system, I can see where M2K's coming from.
 

thesage

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
6,774
Location
Arlington, Va
3DS FC
4957-3743-1481
She is considered to be the best character in the game by the Europeans, but out of all the top tier characters, she received the most changes in the PAL version.
 

Fletch

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
3,046
Location
Shablagoo!!
She is considered to be the best character in the game by the Europeans, but out of all the top tier characters, she received the most changes in the PAL version.
I'm really surprised she's still considered top over there. Without her monster d-throw, I just can't believe she's nearly as effective. Maybe the Europeans know something we don't? I think Fox, Marth, or Falco should be the best over there, it just doesn't make any sense (yes they were nerfed, but I don't think they had anything as earth-shattering as the d-throw change, especially Falco's).
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,186
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
Yup her dthrow did changed so that it sends them away much more then it does in the NTSC version. Rather then popping them straight up. it's like falcon's dthrow.
To be honest, it is still very effective and I don't think it makes as big off a difference as people think. Dthrow can still lead to atleast a dash attack on most chars (if they di correctly) and you can still combo off off that (except at very low percent).
Fox's usmash nerf and Marth not having a spike is quite a big deal, to. Especially considering how good people are at smash DI'ing fox's Uair these days... It really limits fox's KO options. Usmash is still very good, but it won't kill at stupid percentages like in NTSC.
(i have played ntsc aswell btw)
 

VA

Smash Hero
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
5,004
Location
Brighton, UK
She is considered to be the best character in the game by the Europeans, but out of all the top tier characters, she received the most changes in the PAL version.
Quoted for lie/fail.

Fox has the most changes although they are all nerfs, sheik has a lot of changes that aren't all necessarily nerfs. Her uthrow combos instead of killing, her dthrow has a different set of options presented that are similar, like they must DI away everytime or get hit by ftilt fair/regrab what have you. If they don't you can hit most characters with dash attack which ofc leads into other stuff. It's really irritating to hear comments about who should be where on PAL, instead of being ignorant and making comments about it, go read some of the stickies like PAL tier list or the version differences, it might help you understand.
 

Fletch

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
3,046
Location
Shablagoo!!
Quoted for lie/fail.

Fox has the most changes although they are all nerfs, sheik has a lot of changes that aren't all necessarily nerfs. Her uthrow combos instead of killing, her dthrow has a different set of options presented that are similar, like they must DI away everytime or get hit by ftilt fair/regrab what have you. If they don't you can hit most characters with dash attack which ofc leads into other stuff. It's really irritating to hear comments about who should be where on PAL, instead of being ignorant and making comments about it, go read some of the stickies like PAL tier list or the version differences, it might help you understand.
Isn't Sheik number one on the PAL tier list? I was under the impression that was out of date anyways though.
 

thesage

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
6,774
Location
Arlington, Va
3DS FC
4957-3743-1481
Isn't Sheik number one on the PAL tier list? I was under the impression that was out of date anyways though.
That's what I thought. >_>;

D-throw to running attack is nowhere near as helpful has d-throw to, well a lot of stuff. Uair is a combo move (didn't know this that much before), but it doesn't really matter since most sheiks get kos from gimps and edgeguarding anyways. It only makes a difference vs. Peach. Fair was also nerfed in killing power. ~three changes

Fox can't waveshine Marth (dunno about other characters) and kills at lower percents. ~2 changes (edit I forgot he's lighter so 3 changes but weight usually doesn't matter that much >_>; )

Marth has a meteor smash instead of a spike. I also think he's a little lighter but I'm not sure.

It's easier to gentleman with C. Falcon.

Falco's dair needs to sweetspot to spike.

That's what I know happened to the important characters. And despite these changes some PAl players made a tier list with Sheik on top. I personally would've put Marth at the top but w/e.
 

NJzFinest

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 12, 2004
Messages
8,861
Location
NYC
Quoted for lie/fail.

Fox has the most changes although they are all nerfs, sheik has a lot of changes that aren't all necessarily nerfs. Her uthrow combos instead of killing,...
lol what? You mean Uair, right? Because of the fact her moves are weaker, her combo potential has been increased in PAL except out of grabs. But yeah... um, uthrow didn't kill in NTSC, so yeah haha.

----
Other changes

Marth's Dair doesn't spike (it's a meteor) and Marth falls from Fox's shine
Fox is slightly weaker and lighter
Falco's Dair spikes basically the way it does in Brawl

Whenever I go over the PAL changes, I always come to thinking that Marth should be the best since he's the least nerfed and has an even easier time in the Fox matchup. But I'm beginning to realize why they have Sheik where she is.
 

Ignatius

List Evader
BRoomer
Joined
Jun 3, 2003
Messages
5,517
Fox's Firefox is also shorter in PAL, I seem to recall Helios saying that was one of the weirdest things to get used to in playing NTSC Fox; that he couldn't sweetspot ledges very well.
 

Fletch

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
3,046
Location
Shablagoo!!
Fox's Firefox is also shorter in PAL, I seem to recall Helios saying that was one of the weirdest things to get used to in playing NTSC Fox; that he couldn't sweetspot ledges very well.
It's true, someone tested it on Yoshi's Island IIRC, it is just a bit shorter.
 

MikeHaggarTHAKJB

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,186
Location
Göteborg, Sweden
Falco's dair needs to sweetspot to spike.
This is not entirely true. You don't need to sweetspot it, you just need to time it (not hard to do). It's like a sex kick but where only the first part of it spikes.
You where right about everything else tho.
IMO, falco was the least nerfed out of all the top tier chars.

And yes, marth does fall from the shine and fox's firefox is slightly longer. The difference is small but it's there.

Vanityangel, I don't get why you start attacking thesage at all, he wasn't really wrong about anything he said. >.> He didn't say that sheik had the most nerfs (out of the top tiers), he just said changes. And sheik is on top of the PAL tier list... so what wrong did he do? >.>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom