• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Official LINK VIDEO Thread

squirrels4ev

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
85
Location
Eugene, OR
Against all the characters I saw you going for short hop downward angled boomerang. I used to be in this habit as well but you should try just short hopping and throwing it straight. Link's SH is low enough and the move takes long enough to come out that the Boomerang will still come into contact with most grounded characters except maybe a crouching kirby, sheik, or jigglypuff. Furthermore, if the boomerang gets shielded, it will come back to your hand, allowing you to throw one again quicker. A straight boomerang will also travel further horizontally overall. I like to use boomerangs to cover my bomb pulls by short hopping away from my opponent, throwing a boomerang forward, and then pulling the bomb out because most players will just shield the boomerang. If they jump over the boomerang I've still got it coming back to me to hit them in the back, and if they get to me too fast I can shield and have both a returning boomerang and a bomb in hand, one of the safest positions for Link to be in shield in because of all the options he has.
When your opponent loses a stock you're pulling out the bombs like you generally should be, but you almost always throw them early while your opponent still has invincibility. Bombs have a relatively long lifespan and if you time your bomb pull so that you pull as they respawn your bomb will last long enough to give you a reasonable window in which to throw it while they are not invincible.
You grab too much. Link's grab is really punishable and you should try to combo into it or lead into it with moves that don't really combo into it but will usually net you the grab. Because of the range on Link's grab it can be used as a techchasing tool in areas where your opponent has limited options, such as on platforms or near the edge. One situation where you can lead into a grab is when Fox tries to SH nair or bair you from in front, you can jab and sometimes cause Fox to land on the ground in shield because he was trying to L-cancel the nair and he falls so fast. If you know that jab leads to grab a lot on Fox when you catch him out of the air you can just jab and if it hits you just begin a crouch (to jab cancel) and then throw out the grab before you can even see the shield under the assumption that the interruption to Fox's momentum will throw him off and he'll be just standing there. I recommend watching a lot of J666 and Germ videos to learn when to grab.

The first thing I noticed is that you're double jumping a lot in neutral. It seemed like most of your jumps were double jumped. In general you're going to want to hold on to your double jump because in a non-netplay game a player will pick up on your habit and wait for you to waste a jump then punish you, possibly getting an earlier kill than they should have. You especially don't want to be wasting jumps against a character like Sheik who is so fast and can combo you into a kill move easily with something as simple as dash attack>ftilt>fair. at 8:03 into the video Sheik hits you with like a stray backair and catches your jump since you immediately doublejumped off that platform.


At 1:03 into this video you came down from above Ganon with dair and missed and got punished (rather lightly due to netplay, you could have been baired off stage). The next time it happened (at 1:16) you came down with nair which is what you should be doing most of the time. The only thing I would add to the second time is that when you've been knocked really far up like that you have time to pull out a bomb and throw it down below you before you nair which makes your descent a little easier sometimes.

At 2:32 you got faired across stage and a little too far away to use up-B to recover. I assume he caught an immediate doublejump by you but in this situation where you don't have your jump you can wiggle out of tumble which will allow you to airdodge and hookshot instead of forcing you to just up-B. To wiggle out, just move the control stick quickly from side to side until your character stops rolling through the air and enters the regular falling animation.

In the Falco game from this video I noticed you were downthrowing him a lot after you grabbed him even at middling percents where you could get upthrow followups. You should check out this thread.

At 1:25 into this one you started fishing with the up-B to kill Falco. This is pretty risky to do in general and I would never recommend trying it more than once since it leaves you so vulnerable. In a situation like this where you both have such high percents, especially against Falco who has such a poor recovery and is so easy for Link to edgeguard, I would try baiting out a mistake from him by spacing him out with boomerangs and bombs. Eventually he makes an unsafe approach or gets caught too close to you by a projectile which will let you combo into a nair. At such a high percent you don't need up-b to kill Falco since nair will set up an edgeguard.
 

Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
Thanks for the criticism, it seems really useful! So far I've been trying to incorporate SH straight boomerang which seems to be pretty nice, jab cancel grabbing I seem to have a tough time getting down. I still appear to keep down throwing the spacies out of habit, I'm gonna need to work on that as down throw is what I'm used to going to. Got three more videos from when after I saw your post:

vs blocquiao (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuFWtmX-lrQ&list=UU0ojiib7v4U7c3oSIO-Dzkg

vs dontdothatman (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnzafaZqStk&list=UU0ojiib7v4U7c3oSIO-Dzkg

vs djbajapanti204 (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Kyu2LDhWZ8&list=UU0ojiib7v4U7c3oSIO-Dzkg

And these two were recorded before I saw your post, just feel I should post them anyways:

vs Based_Hippo (Falcon, Falco, Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCaCHlZ4f1k&list=UU0ojiib7v4U7c3oSIO-Dzkg

vs fruitloops (Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jPT0Y485E&list=UU0ojiib7v4U7c3oSIO-Dzkg
 

squirrels4ev

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
85
Location
Eugene, OR
Something I forgot to mention about the first set of videos was at 8:45 or so in the Sheik video I saw you connect with a backair but not follow it with anything. It was this that made me notice you weren't using too much of link's tricky aerial capabilities that stem from his nair and backair. Both moves can be autocanceled and have interruptable frames which allow you to either double jump or throw out another aerial directly from the first move. In that particular situation at 8:45 if you would have naired out of that backair and fastfell onto sheik you would have gotten a little more damage and possibly extended the combo past that, but probably not.

You can do things like FJ nair or bair to DJ nair or bair, or you can FJ nair or bair to immediate uair without using your DJ. SH bair can be autocanceled and FJ nair can too. you can do similar things out of SH bair such as DJ nair, DJ bair, or DJ uair. According to the frame data You can't get the hitbox of uair out if you interrupt SH bair with it, but I think if you hit something with the bair then it sort of slows down your descent which allows you to get out a uair that actually gets hitboxes out. Another good one is to FJ nair and then if your opponent is respecting that you can DJ away and pull a bomb.

I'll watch the new videos fully later but I saw some of the Fox one and it looks like you fixed up your double jumping, grabbing and boomerang habits already which is good.
 

squirrels4ev

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Messages
85
Location
Eugene, OR
I play very differently from you and SAUS (and probably not in a good way...), but those are my opinions on striking and two notes I had about a few situations where I figure you could make another choice that would probably give better results.
In regards to stage striking, I spent the better part of a day (I had a long layover at an airport) watching Fox vs. Link videos after getting double eliminated by Fox at my last tournament, and after reading your post as well I realized DL is not that bad against Fox because it gives Link space to work with. I think the size of the stage on BF and FoD is just weird for me because I haven't figured out how to play on them yet. What I mean by that is that Yoshi's is so small it's easy to play in such a way that you can stay on top of Fox, but BF and FoD afford him a little more room to work with. Fox, however, has no problem staying on top of Link on any stage except, imo, on DL, where the platforms are high and wide, and the stage gives Link more space to work with in neutral.

I'm sure I wanted to take that ledge when I got the low% up-B spike because when I was watching the replay the first time I thought the same thing I think I must have thought during the game. That is, that I should take ledge and get-up attack edgeguard if he goes above it. The cooldown on the up-B gave me time to judge what I should do, and after it occurred to me to take the ledge, I realized I was probably too far away to get it. I'm the type to go for guaranteed over risk when I'm playing cool-headed so I tried to cover with jabs. Watching it again I think there's a possibility I could have gotten ledge with running ledge-canceled up-B, but I didn't go for it because missing that would have put me in a shine-spikeable position.

As for the idea of using double forward smash to force Fox to WD OoS I think that's a great idea and I'm going to try to implement that. I noticed Germ has something of a habit of spacing the first Fsmash on shield if he has Fox in a corner, and then waiting and doing another 1st Fsmash into an immediate 2nd Fsmash. I think it has a reasonable success rate because opponents who don't expect it to happen see you do an Fsmash and wait, which makes them less ready to punish the quick second Fsmash on the following double Fsmash.

I think my best option after Fox DIed that last dsmash right before he won game 2 would have been to boomerang straight to the left. If he would have stood up and shielded with it coming back at him I probably would have successfully grabbed him. Who knows.
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Decided to record one of my matches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHM3hDEiabI
any tips/feedback would be greatly appreciated
I'll assume the deaths were tech errors, and just drop a reminder that if you're too close to the stage [via being there or airdodging], you can't hookshot it, BUT you can airdodge back if you have it OR you can fade back and hit z later - you don't HAVE to use hookshot while in the airdodge animation [it's iffy, but I sometimes airdodge above the stage on Battlefield and fall a little to hookshot - it can throw people off-guard or help me try to clip them as I do it, plus I know I'll be high enough to hookshot so if I do it a little early I at least have a shot [fall and hit z], vs going a little too low and just being dead].

Vs Peach, you can (and should) grab or Up+B OoS Peach when she dsmashes your shield. It leads to a free punish (up+B is one, but there are dthrow combos vs Peach above 40% and you can uthrow -> utilt or uair or nair depending on her DI below that).

Double jumping early vs Peach offstage is bad - her turnips should be double-jumped over when possible to make recovery easier, but you need a double jump for that. I do tend to double jump too early (partially due to a momentum cancelling habit from Brawl when I played Falco [as Pikachu I use side+b for that instead] - I don't know if DJing actually lets you live any longer compared to not doing so) as well, but saving the double jump will help.

Don't land with dair if they're not trying to chase you upwards or aren't running to where you're landing. Doing that is a free punish on 25 frames of l-cancelled landing lag you endure from the endlag [unless you're a god at getting the autocancel, but you missed it in this video if that was the intent]. Even if they are doing so, it's risky, because you could be double-jumping over an attack, airdodging through an attack [and can hookshot counterattack - not nearly as good as PM, but it can be a funny tool to poke with and can actually hit someone out of a nair or whatever], waiting to nair [which also has a good hitbox below Link, but much less lag if you whiff], attempt to fast-fall below them and uair [a great position for Link], or just landing and going back to the ground game if you avoid them.

This last one is tricky, so ignore it if it confuses you, but generally, when you throw rang at Peach, you should do it while retreating, since if she is in the area where you'd be just shy of hitting her, you'll whiff entirely if she doesn't move, BUT you'll be more likely to hit her if she advances. This can stop her float approaches somewhat easier as compared to going forward or just short-hopping when you aim to rang her out of the float. This is pretty good in my opinion because making Peach approach you on the ground is better than in the air, and also it means if she floats back to avoid it, you generally then have ample time to get a bomb (The downside being if she has no item in hand, she might get one too XD).

EDIT: Also, if you struck to this stage via stage striking, I think FoD is a terrible stage vs Peach - her dsmash and fair kill fairly early off the sides, while fair is ok but up+B shouldn't be relied on, and our dair and especially uair will take longer to kill due to the high ceiling [lower only than Dreamland]. Her dsmash can eat Link's head alive on those platforms as well, If you are not a campy player I can see why you end up there, but I think camping is reasonably effective vs Peach. My stage order recommendation is PS > FD >= [greater than or equal to] BF >= Yoshis > DL > FoD, and if she's too good at countercamping so you go for aggression, Yoshi's moves up in the order and I guess FoD would probably too, but I personally hate the stage in this MU [I would still let a Peach who's amazing at breaking camping to DL over FoD because it's the best camping stage (so even if she's good, you have room to work with] and we also live forever off the sides and top, whereas on FoD she still lives well off the top while we die relatively early off the sides].
 
Last edited:

Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
It seems like my Link is missing something. When comparing it to Germ's Link, my Link seems to be slow whereas I'm trying to go for a faster and more aggro Link, but I don't think I'm doing too well pulling that off. Here's another match I had recently:

vs tygo (Falco, Captain Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px174g8VYMM&feature=youtu.be

match 1 starts at 1:14, match 2 starts at 4:19, match 3 starts at 8:01
 
Last edited:

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
It seems like my Link is missing something. When comparing it to Germ's Link, my Link seems to be slow whereas I'm trying to go for a faster and more aggro Link, but I don't think I'm doing too well pulling that off. Here's another match I had recently:

vs tygo (Falco, Captain Falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px174g8VYMM&feature=youtu.be

match 1 starts at 1:14, match 2 starts at 4:19, match 3 starts at 8:01
Hey. The biggest thing I noticed that is lowering your speed is the pauses between actions. I think it is more of a problem of not knowing what you want to do next soon enough. If you cut out these pauses, you'd play like twice as fast. The title says netplay, so I'm not sure how much of that is from input lag or something. Just something I wanted to point out. The difficult part is when you are trying to move as fast as possible, you run the risk of pressing things too early.

I noticed you also threw your opponent in ways that don't allow for a follow up. I started a thread for grab punishes here: http://smashboards.com/threads/grab-punishes-with-link.387797/ Against Falco and Falcon, at around 18 or so damage, you should only up throw until they are at around 130 damage. Then you can down throw up-b. The up-throw will lead to a lot more. If they are going to land on a platform, you can tech chase with up-airs. This will lead to a lot of good follow ups. I saw you did up tilt in some of these cases, so I figured I should point that out. Below that 18 damage, you should go for down throw and try to tech chase with regrabs. This is a lot easier on captain falcon. If you find it is too hard, at least pressure them where they end up by being near them without being in up-tilt or shine range.
 

Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
Hey. The biggest thing I noticed that is lowering your speed is the pauses between actions. I think it is more of a problem of not knowing what you want to do next soon enough. If you cut out these pauses, you'd play like twice as fast. The title says netplay, so I'm not sure how much of that is from input lag or something. Just something I wanted to point out. The difficult part is when you are trying to move as fast as possible, you run the risk of pressing things too early.

I noticed you also threw your opponent in ways that don't allow for a follow up. I started a thread for grab punishes here: http://smashboards.com/threads/grab-punishes-with-link.387797/ Against Falco and Falcon, at around 18 or so damage, you should only up throw until they are at around 130 damage. Then you can down throw up-b. The up-throw will lead to a lot more. If they are going to land on a platform, you can tech chase with up-airs. This will lead to a lot of good follow ups. I saw you did up tilt in some of these cases, so I figured I should point that out. Below that 18 damage, you should go for down throw and try to tech chase with regrabs. This is a lot easier on captain falcon. If you find it is too hard, at least pressure them where they end up by being near them without being in up-tilt or shine range.
Ah, thanks for the advice, it was really helpful. Yeah I noticed the pauses myself, and normally I'm pressing an input but Link didn't seem to react to those, so I assumed I was hitting my inputs too early while he's still doing an animation. I'm starting to get into the habit of up throwing the spacies and Falcon, down throw seems to pop out as a reflex from fighting too many Marths and Smash 4 XD. Again, thanks for the advice, it seemed to help me in the long run :) .
 

Blubba_Pinecone

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
796
Location
under a rock
Sup guys, this training session was recorded on Wednesday. I'm just looking to improve as much as possible, either in general or character specific, so feel free to watch as much as you'd like. The description has a bunch of time-stamps for all the matches, including each character it is against and the stage it is on.

http://www.twitch.tv/blubba_pinecone/b/634016474

Watched it myself a few times already, the two main things I've gotten from it are:
  • Too much shielding in neutral, limiting my options needlessly
  • Too much preemptive stuff that doesn't make sense (e.g. Dsmashing expecting them to fall through a platform)
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Played at Lan ETS a little over a week ago. I got 4th in the end. Here's the streamed matches:

Day 1
TestRider (Shiek) - pools (he was second seed in my pool)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cga0JeOoeDU

Kage (Falcon, Ganon) - winner's quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2ZQaOKrvh0

KirbyKaze (Shiek) - winner's semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0hh-r2HBfk

Fugu (Shiek) - loser's quarters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cmqg5ciRlI

Day 2
Kage (Falcon, Ganon) - loser's semis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An84ayeUaRI

A whole lot of shiek. My back-to-back sets against Kage and KirbyKaze are my best streamed matches to date. It seems like my tech skill could use a little work and I still see some missed opportunities during the matches, but I am overall quite happy with my play on Day 1. I think I was not playing as well Day 2, but it is something for me to work on. I didn't feel as confident for some reason and Kage is always a monster when I fight him lol.
 

shapular

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Messages
772
Location
Chattanooga, TN

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
You gotta come to Toronto more SAUS! Do you have any recent videos vs spacies?
Vs Kage in the first set, why did you take him back to Yoshis after getting 3 stocked by him? It worked out, but I'm trying to learn when to cp someone back to a stage that i just got bodied on. Seems like something that would deter me from it.
I play a lot vs Trulliam if you remember him but have never been able to take a set off of him. And also played recently with Hex
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
You gotta come to Toronto more SAUS! Do you have any recent videos vs spacies?
Vs Kage in the first set, why did you take him back to Yoshis after getting 3 stocked by him? It worked out, but I'm trying to learn when to cp someone back to a stage that i just got bodied on. Seems like something that would deter me from it.
I play a lot vs Trulliam if you remember him but have never been able to take a set off of him. And also played recently with Hex
My best stage to go to against Ganon is probably pokemon stadium or FD, but I think he would go Falcon if I went to either of those. It would be bad for me (basically counterpicking myself against his falcon). Fountain was banned and I won on battlefield.

I knew my mistakes and was more prepared for the next game. I don't know how I wasn't phased, but I was really determined to beat Kage. Like, not just determined, but almost as if I knew I could beat him and that I just did some stupid things in game 2. I am honestly trying to get myself to be more like that as often as possible, since my performance jumps stupid amounts when I am thinking like that.

So I was basically super confident that I would beat his Ganon in a rematch, and going back to Yoshi's almost guarantees he will stay Ganon. It was also my best pick to avoid fighting Falcon on a bigger stage (even though that isn't the end of the world).

I'd love to come to Toronto more! Just need to plan better, especially since I will probably need to take at least one day off work to make it there.

I don't have any super recent sets vs spacies. The local guy who has the recording setup dropped his laptop a couple months ago, and he needs it for school, so to avoid damaging it further (possibly to the point where he can't even use it), he is keeping it at home. So we haven't been able to record stuff for the past couple months. I have some videos from a tournament at the beginning of January that I meant to post. There was one player who used fox / falco in a couple of games, but I think he didn't really know what he was doing against Link.

Here's the matches from that tournament (note: grand finals was mis-labelled as ECHO 2014 - I can confirm that it was 2015).

Space Ghost (Samus)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGBjC9jf1bo

PerhapsMan (Yoshi)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9c17YRscn8

Fatuik (Fox, Falco, Marth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQhIb159yGQ

Vwins (Peach)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8IeaYEbyhA

Fatuik (Falco, Fox, Jigglypuff)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKjiQnGKi2Q

Vwins (Peach, Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THb2Ndu0FTM

This is from a little over 3 months ago, now, but I'd probably play about the same overall (though I've been incorporating weak nair into d-smash / up-b against everyone lately and it is godlike). There's some scattered spacies in there, but they're mostly against the same guy, and Vwins was almost trolling when he went fox, so it isn't the best bunch of games to learn the overall matchup. Hopefully some of that is useful to you.
 

4Serial

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
1,237
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
At The Come Up did you have a chance to play Duck's Samus? Just curious how that went cuz I've played him recently and feel like you'd be able to beat him lol
In Toronto I've lost a few sets to ICs players and i know you're probably the best Link in that matchup. I've watched your games vs Vanitas and struck to Battlefield and tried to camp platforms and throw bombs and follow up but maybe I'm not doing it right lol
I saw the waveland off platform to nair > upB against Kage's Ganon on Yoshi's, it was sickkk
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
At The Come Up did you have a chance to play Duck's Samus? Just curious how that went cuz I've played him recently and feel like you'd be able to beat him lol
In Toronto I've lost a few sets to ICs players and i know you're probably the best Link in that matchup. I've watched your games vs Vanitas and struck to Battlefield and tried to camp platforms and throw bombs and follow up but maybe I'm not doing it right lol
I saw the waveland off platform to nair > upB against Kage's Ganon on Yoshi's, it was sickkk
I didn't get a chance to play him. I feel like Link vs Samus is kind of easy for Link, since we can camp platforms to force them to jump, and Samus is atrocious in the air compared to Link. Combos are super easy with bombs and up-airs to keep her trapped in the air.

I am still ironing out the ICs matchup. I think I've gotten better at it, but Vanitas has been beating me a lot lately. I don't have any footage of recent matches though. Mostly I've been working on properly punishing Nana so I don't just give away free punishes by overextending and also so they are more devastating. Just remember that you want to avoid doing anything that can be shield grabbed or wavedash grabbed OOS. This basically leaves spaced, retreating fairs and projectiles. By staying on platforms, ICs have to come to you. It is important to have shield dropping down to abuse this situation.
 

link7

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
1,081
Location
Steilacoom, Washington
NNID
Kidlink77
3DS FC
2234-7140-8163
I watch you play Saus and I realize I'm sorely lacking in the tech skill department. Anyway, here's some tourney matches from earlier this week. Melee Doubles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRawhA5U3bY My matches start from the 1:29:09 mark and continue to the 1:56:30 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5may9TVQfHY Goes from 30:02 to 42:30, then again at 1:29:30 all the way to the end.

The UpB's were real, the missed grabs were amazing, and the lack of Dairs was incredible. Please critique the **** out of me.
 

Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
It's been a while since I've posted vids of me playing Link. Last week I felt I was doing a bit better than before, but now it seems like I'm doing slightly worse. Here's my most recent match against a more pressuring opponent:

vs osorioace (Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tEuSPp91DI

Against a pressuring opponent I'm not really sure what I can do, or if what I'm doing is even right. The few lightshields after my Bairs were supposed to be turn grabs, and one of my forward throws was supposed to be a D-throw or U-throw. It seems like I still have ways to go. Criticism is appreciated.
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Only match on stream and I choked disastrously. I'm normally a bit more patient and I should've remained more patient here. I need more Puff practice, since there are like 3 puffs, and one doesn't really play Puff [he plays spacies], this one almost never shows up, and the other one is not very good at all [and now just plays Sheik against me, and still loses]. The ban was PS and I didn't know if removing platforms would help, or else I'd have tried FD. After this set I MM'd him for a dollar and lost 3-2 for the practice [went up 2-0 then got 3-0'd... which was disappointing]. I think losing game 1 also sort of made me a bit frustrated when I should've taken the time to calm down and consider say Yoshi's.

The other round I lost I didn't take as seriously as I should have [opening with Falcon dittos on Mute City, then picked Marth Dreamland to try to practice some stuff], although even if I had I'd have almost certainly lost [he usually beats me in PM in Link Falcon, and Melee Link Falcon is a lot harder - he's top of our Melee PR].

I ended up placing 7th. Audio is pretty weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2llxZXJYSPI
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
776
Location
sweden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CKWApRnCfU

My match against the guy who made 2nd at this tourney. What do you think?
You are playing quite well, you got great aggressive play and good understanding of your projectiles.

What you should focus on the most is to not grab or dash attack instinctivly, he baited you a lot and you got punished for it a lot of times. You can grab a lot of Marths attacks OoS, theres no need to force a grab.

You can use CC a lot more and also light shield and actually just stay in shield. Getting grabbed by Marth isnt that terrible, only annoying actually. Sometimes you need to think what damage source is the least dangerous and just accept getting hit. If you play it smart Marth will have a very hard time landing any finishers on you meaning you can live to 150% and beyond even on YS.

You should change your way of edgeguarding Marth, IMO you have two options when edgegaurding him, either you jump out with a nair in his face effectively covering all options, or you grab the ledge and force him to overshoot it, make sure you refresh your invincibility, then as he land you go for a dair. Don't throw bombs at Marth when he recovers, they'll send him back to the stage.

You also need to use your hookshot better and more often when recovering, I don't feel like it really is in your toolbox, you really should add it. The most useful way to hookshot is a sweetspotted one at almost maximum range, you will travel to the ledge almost instantanously outside the range of any onstage edgeguarding options, if he chooses to go offstage, make sure you use your airdodge to actually dodge something and you can turn the edgeguard. I like that you use your projectiles to cover your way back.
 

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Hi, Link boards! I've been playing a lot of Melee lately and I would like to get a better Link, so any pointers would be really appreciated :)
Two small things, someone should do a more in-depth write-up.

Vs Marth, do not DI fthrow in - at low percents you get regrabbed, at high percents tipper fsmash'd. This is an issue I struggled with myself [still do in other things], but DON'T always survival DI - if Marth grabs you facing the ledge, hold OUT so that you do not get fsmashed [I'm pretty sure even at zero percent if you hold out his fsmash will miss you].

Vs Fox, I don't understand your stage choices at all... what was struck, and what did he ban? I think Dreamland, Battlefield, and Fountain of Dreams are all better stages vs Fox than FD and Pokémon Stadium [unless the Fox has demonstrated inability to waveshine, then FD is fine]. I'd be interested in reading about your reasoning for picking those stages.

Didn't really watch the Fox or Marth ones, just sorta skimmed, and didn't watch the "Vs another Marth" or "Vs C. Falcon" at all, but those things stuck out to me from what I saw.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
776
Location
sweden
Link <3 platforms.

I didnt watch but I love the Marth matchup, here are some key notes on how you could play it.

Marth is an intresting mathup, you should keep yourself grounded and be very defensive, rolls, spotdodges and shield are very useful against him(4% damage from a grab aint that bad). If you never give him any lag to punish, he will have a lot of problem to kill you. Your way of dealing with marth in neutral should be bombs OoS, boomerang, fair and jab, an occasional nair is okay, but marth got the tools to stop it. Comboing marth is nothing special, just juggle him with uairs. When I edgeguard Marth I like to do two things. The first if he is very far out is to jump out with a SH nair and time your FF so that you just get back, this will create a wall for his Up B that he cant pass through, be ready to DI, if he hits you you should DI back up onto the stage. My other option I usually use is if he is closer. I usually stall on the ledge and then when he needs to DJ or UpB just ledge jump drop with nair, he cant get through you and you are safe since you got invince frames(otherwise you are doing it wrong, go to a mountain and practice). Lastly recovering against Marth is as simple as always doing a sweetspotted max range air dodge -> hookshot, throw a bomb before if you want to.
 
Last edited:

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
Link <3 platforms.

I didnt watch but I love the Marth matchup, here are some key notes on how you could play it.

Marth is an intresting mathup, you should keep yourself grounded and be very defensive, rolls, spotdodges and shield are very useful against him(4% damage from a grab aint that bad). If you never give him any lag to punish, he will have a lot of problem to kill you. Your way of dealing with marth in neutral should be bombs OoS, boomerang, fair and jab, an occasional nair is okay, but marth got the tools to stop it. Comboing marth is nothing special, just juggle him with uairs. When I edgeguard Marth I like to do two things. The first if he is very far out is to jump out with a SH nair and time your FF so that you just get back, this will create a wall for his Up B that he cant pass through, be ready to DI, if he hits you you should DI back up onto the stage. My other option I usually use is if he is closer. I usually stall on the ledge and then when he needs to DJ or UpB just ledge jump drop with nair, he cant get through you and you are safe since you got invince frames(otherwise you are doing it wrong, go to a mountain and practice). Lastly recovering against Marth is as simple as always doing a sweetspotted max range air dodge -> hookshot, throw a bomb before if you want to.
Helpful video for those who want to see some of this in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6FFMcDtBM8 Thanks @ SAUS SAUS
 

Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
So I got a new video up:

vs Bonjwa (Falco)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94rTehISafg&feature=youtu.be

I'm looking for constructive criticism on my playing. A few times I went for platform bomb lay in hopes to pull another bomb out, throw it, then grab that and throw that for some sort of bomb pressure, but I found that this opponent didn't give me the chance to lol. I definitely need to work on my movement and neutral, and want to improve on my aggression game. Any ways I should practice/anything I should be doing to help me achieve these?
 

Icyo

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
661
Location
Seattle
That video was inspirational! Does anyone know the frame data for the platform cancelled nairs he does to shield pressure?
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
776
Location
sweden
Dropping makes you airborn on frame X(3 frames?)
Nair hits on frame 4
L-canceled nair has 7 frames of lag
The initial hitbox of nair has 11 frames of hitstun
Plattform canceling means you will be on the platform and land the frame after hit lag ends

this means there is a window of X frames the opponent can do what they want.
So basically if dropping makes you airborn frame 1 its perfect shield pressure.
 

Scoops_HD

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Messages
10
I got some games recorded for the first time in forever and wanted some input from the Link community. I've been working on creating my own style, working in edge canceled dairs and zairs. And using up-smash to catch short hop dairs in neutral.
Tell me what you think

Falcon
Falco

thanks a lot

TL;DW
 
Last edited:

Fortress

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
3,097
Location
Kalispell, MT
My first (big) tournament in about a year. I'm super rusty, and it shows.

EDIT: It's been a while since I've touched Project M, and Smash in general, just a heads-up. Don't mind all of my missed punishes and times I could've fSmashed for a win.

 
Last edited:

Thor

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 26, 2013
Messages
2,009
Location
UIUC [school year]. MN [summer]
My first (big) tournament in about a year. I'm super rusty, and it shows.

EDIT: It's been a while since I've touched Project M, and Smash in general, just a heads-up. Don't mind all of my missed punishes and times I could've fSmashed for a win.

There is a PM video thread.

My computer hasn't worked since Friday but I attended a PM/Melee event, 9th in Melee, 7th in PM. 3 of 4 losses were to PR people and one bracket loss was to a guy I beat in pools. When my computer works I will try to link footage of the 3 Melee matches (pools and bracket match by the one guy and the set vs the PR player in loser's.) I suck vs Samus due to no Samus players where I go to college and it being an MU that it is easy in theory but executing the theory is very hard without practice since the MU is so different compared to other MUs.
 

Bravo_10

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
111
Location
Atlanta, GA
I never really get to play matches on stream down here in Georgia. Here's just about the only remotely recent one I could find (from like 2 months ago). It's me and my doubles partner playing crappily, yet still bodying a worse doubles team. Highlight of the match was Peach grab -> close hit boomerang -> dair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUZVTIUKAdg

Also lol @ Bravo Bravo stop claiming my tournament results.
 
Last edited:

Team Plasma N

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
190
Location
Unova Region
3DS FC
3952-8297-3456
Alright guys, I got some more matches done and I still need critiquing:

vs Darkdub37 (Fox)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_59KeuQRB90

So my opponent and I have been playing against each other for a while now, he pretty much knows how to deal with my Link. I try to do some weird things in the match to try and "mix things up" a bit, but I'm not sure if that worked out too well. I've been told my neutral has been more or less the same, and every time we play it's pretty much just my neutral game's refined a bit more, but that's about it. Are there any good mixups I can do that would greatly benefit me? Is there anything I should be doing that I'm doing wrong? Also I purposely did not ban FD. I knew he'd take me to Yoshi's if I did, and as odd as it sounds, I'm much more comfortable playing on FD than I am on Yoshi's vs most characters.

The following are some tech I want to improve on that just require grinding practice:

- Bair to reverse grab (offline I can pretty much pull this off almost consistently, on netplay however.... either way, still needs work, I barely attempted it those matches though. Evidence of my failed attempts can be seen with a lightshield followed by a bair in my other videos)
- Shield Dropping (spot dodge or rolls come out instead, rip)
- Jab, jab, grab (at the grab part, instead the third jab comes out)
- Combo game
- Crouch cancelling (easy to pull off, for some reason it just doesn't come to mind to do it)
- Grab punishes (I know we have a thread on this, I just gotta get used to actually implementing them character specific)
- Edgeguarding (for some reason, I mess them up)

Anything else I should add to that?

The following are obvious mistakes I made:

- The first stock: Yes, that was a complete fail on my part XD. Barely sweetspotted the ledge when intending to do so, didn't make use of hookshot, etc.
- 0:33 Random ftilt what....? Tbh even I don't know where that came from. I know I was trying to dash or something there but why would I hit the A button...?
- 6:45 That was not supposed to be a dash attack. It was either supposed to be a bair or turn running nair.
- 8:17 No! TPN you ruined it ;-; ! Yeah, somehow I thought he wouldn't reach like Falco, I should have tried the edgeduard anyways.

That's about all I can think of for now, still looking for things I can/should do to help my game (especially in neutral, including good mixups and things I'm doing wrong/getting punished for).
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom