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Official Official LINK VIDEO Thread

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
Yeah, I know one thing for sure that helps is to not be pressured in your shield cause there is not much you can do out of it, and I'm sure sheik can cover every option that you do. It definitely is about playing the neutral game really well, and of course, a single mistake costs a lot in this game.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Yeah, I know one thing for sure that helps is to not be pressured in your shield cause there is not much you can do out of it, and I'm sure sheik can cover every option that you do. It definitely is about playing the neutral game really well, and of course, a single mistake costs a lot in this game.
Link is definitely very bad out of shield. It's mitigated if you have a bomb, but it still doesn't make it a good option. I feel like you're better off just taking hits and crouch cancelling them or SDIing them to escape and sometimes get a punish. It takes a lot of practice to know when and where you can do those kinds of things though.
 

Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
That's what I like about link though. It takes thinking ahead and making the most out of what's considered limited in today's meta.
I wouldn't use him if he had a one frame move out of shield like fox.. links closest thing to that is dropping a bomb out of shield.. which requires thinking ahead if you want your bomb when you shield
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
That's what I like about link though. It takes thinking ahead and making the most out of what's considered limited in today's meta.
I wouldn't use him if he had a one frame move out of shield like fox.. links closest thing to that is dropping a bomb out of shield.. which requires thinking ahead if you want your bomb when you shield
Ya it would kind of suck if everyone could shine lol. I think Link's biggest strength is his ability to beat attacks combined with his ability to force approaches and set up traps with his projectiles. He has lots of good, disjointed hitboxes, but on top of that, he has his bomb which beats almost all attacks. It's not just that other characters can abuse Link's lack of speed, it's that they have to. He's fun because, as you mentioned, it's all about planning ahead.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
Ya it would kind of suck if everyone could shine lol. I think Link's biggest strength is his ability to beat attacks combined with his ability to force approaches and set up traps with his projectiles. He has lots of good, disjointed hitboxes, but on top of that, he has his bomb which beats almost all attacks. It's not just that other characters can abuse Link's lack of speed, it's that they have to. He's fun because, as you mentioned, it's all about planning ahead.
What about Marth? He can easily swipe through your bombs like a hot knife through butter.

I wonder how good my Link would be if I literally played nothing but him since I started.
 

Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
I love using items to cover options and to force reactions.

I love safe pressure with link
Lately I'm all about dropping bombs. I've been told link dropping a bomb is one frame. I drop them when I'm about to land on the ground.. if someone comes in with a strong attack the bomb explodes or burns them.
If they don't come in I just grab it again and keep my space.
Sometimes I drop it and swipe at there shield until the bomb lands on me and link grabs it automatically since I'm doing the A swipes at them

Sorry link strats are just to awesome to me. I had to post stupid **** I love about links play style
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
What about Marth? He can easily swipe through your bombs like a hot knife through butter.

I wonder how good my Link would be if I literally played nothing but him since I started.
Marth is the only exception (maybe Roy but meh). You have to trap marth more than beat his attacks. Use projectiles so that he has to do something about them, and get into position to punish anything he does. He'll start staying grounded more, but then you can retreat to platforms and throw grabs at him as he approaches. If marth ever messes up and gets hit by a bomb, it's not hard to get a good juggle on him with up-airs.
 

RedmanSSBM

Improving My Process
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,744
Location
Greensboro, NC
Marth is the only exception (maybe Roy but meh). You have to trap marth more than beat his attacks. Use projectiles so that he has to do something about them, and get into position to punish anything he does. He'll start staying grounded more, but then you can retreat to platforms and throw grabs at him as he approaches. If marth ever messes up and gets hit by a bomb, it's not hard to get a good juggle on him with up-airs.
Yeah true that, plus marth is just that right weight for link to combo pretty well, and especially juggle.

Also, I love hitting opponents with bombs on their shields cause the bomb just bounces up and I can regrab it or they are pressured by the bomb being there haha.
Also boomerang coming back is soo good.
 

Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
Yeah true that, plus marth is just that right weight for link to combo pretty well, and especially juggle.

Also, I love hitting opponents with bombs on their shields cause the bomb just bounces up and I can regrab it or they are pressured by the bomb being there haha.
Also boomerang coming back is soo good.
Dude bouncing bomb on shield is god. That's when I like swiping the shield til he grabs it again. I love crouch canceling Marth fair.. the punishes are ridiculous
 

Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
If you have a bomb in your hand you can dodge roll to the ledge of the stage and throw it down... when you do the bomb doesn't explode on you, instead it hugs the stage and literally gets thrown down.

THis works well for some of the angles on vertical recoveries like Marth's and it sets up for spin attack and pretty much anything else

I don't know how well known this is.
I haven't seen anyone doing it but that doesn't mean anything.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Against Marth you suddenly shield, cause all those long range moves can be shield grabbed by Link for free.
You can also CC a lot of his moves and punish with a grab or down-smash.

If you have a bomb in your hand you can dodge roll to the ledge of the stage and throw it down... when you do the bomb doesn't explode on you, instead it hugs the stage and literally gets thrown down.

THis works well for some of the angles on vertical recoveries like Marth's and it sets up for spin attack and pretty much anything else

I don't know how well known this is.
I haven't seen anyone doing it but that doesn't mean anything.
I've seen this before, but I have found a use for it yet. You can do some flashy stuff with it while edge-guarding, but I think you can usually do something more reliable that is easier to pull off.
 

Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
HDL where have you gone!!!!

As far as I know he did not go to apex and has not been to a big tournament so far this year.

I know he won a Puerto Rico tournament a couple of months back..

Maybe I'm wrong.. maybe he has been going to tournaments and I just can't find his new matches.

I don't know about you guys but I think HDL is so fun to watch.. us Link mains need him to be active. He has paved a bit of the way for Link players.
 
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SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
I attended the local monthly last weekend. Kage showed up again :D (2 hour drive for him to get to my city). We got 54 entrants and I placed 2nd. The recording was not perfect (first time using some of the equipment by the person) but it turned out good enough. The sound didn't work (sounds like echoing voices lol) so you can just have the sound off. Here's the matches I got recorded:

Round 1 - vs Pikalex (Falco):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KX3w6eyhws
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVsUVZ-JPpo
(I played another friendly with him later on the recorded setup)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ni8ksg9sk

Round 2 - vs Kage (Ganon): (Kage in round 2 lol)
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQfmPrTMzc
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=754o1x0I5cY

(Didn't get round 3 recorded, but it was vs a local fox/falco player who goes by Tom. I won 2-0)

Round 4 - vs Revan (Jigglypuff):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKB1ltREZps
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh8-s1f2G_A
- game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsvhqHJReek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsvhqHJReek
Round 5 - vs Jarc (Fox):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WphQOERqDU
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g-YcBIwg8w

Round 6 - vs Hot Hungry Salami (Peach):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDOzDPcXRg0
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLciUQ_p3Dc

Round 7 (Losers Finals) - vs Nike|Cman (Shiek/Fox): (Note that this is the same player that 3-0'd me with Shiek about a month ago)
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmD8XarKlY
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PnjjC7RCw
- game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnSmSWjbA08
- game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFUUyuVY3wY

Round 8 (Grand Finals) - vs Kage (Falcon/Ganon/Marth):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXwmAbxCBtg
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9vut_UveqM
- game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t9sS8G_dTQ
- game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoMY9B-Yvic

I made sure to get a lot of my games recorded because I want to be able to analyze them. I only missed 1 bracket set. Kage in round 2 kind sucked, but then I got to play so many sets in loser bracket!

Critique, comment, whatever you feel like saying is good!
 
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Wafer6866

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
230
Location
Bay Minette, Alahama
I attended the local monthly last weekend. Kage showed up again :D (2 hour drive for him to get to my city). We got 54 entrants and I placed 2nd. The recording was not perfect (first time using some of the equipment by the person) but it turned out good enough. The sound didn't work (sounds like echoing voices lol) so you can just have the sound off. Here's the matches I got recorded:

Round 1 - vs Pikalex (Falco):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KX3w6eyhws
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVsUVZ-JPpo
(I played another friendly with him later on the recorded setup)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2ni8ksg9sk

Round 2 - vs Kage (Ganon): (Kage in round 2 lol)
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbQfmPrTMzc
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=754o1x0I5cY

(Didn't get round 3 recorded, but it was vs a local fox/falco player who goes by Tom. I won 2-0)

Round 4 - vs Revan (Jigglypuff):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKB1ltREZps
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh8-s1f2G_A
- game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsvhqHJReek
Round 5 - vs Jarc (Fox):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WphQOERqDU
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1g-YcBIwg8w

Round 6 - vs Hot Hungry Salami (Peach):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDOzDPcXRg0
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLciUQ_p3Dc

Round 7 (Losers Finals) - vs Nike|Cman (Shiek/Fox): (Note that this is the same player that 3-0'd me with Shiek about a month ago)
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmD8XarKlY
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3PnjjC7RCw
- game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnSmSWjbA08
- game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFUUyuVY3wY

Round 8 (Grand Finals) - vs Kage (Falcon/Ganon/Marth):
- game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXwmAbxCBtg
- game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9vut_UveqM
- game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t9sS8G_dTQ
- game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoMY9B-Yvic

I made sure to get a lot of my games recorded because I want to be able to analyze them. I only missed 1 bracket set. Kage in round 2 kind sucked, but then I got to play so many sets in loser bracket!

Critique, comment, whatever you feel like saying is good!


I'll comment on these as I watch them. Good **** man. There are some good players up there in that area.
It's still going to be a couple of days until I can watch them. I'm just glad you got so much recorded
 

GabPR

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
1,356
Location
Puerto Rico
HDL where have you gone!!!!

As far as I know he did not go to apex and has not been to a big tournament so far this year.

I know he won a Puerto Rico tournament a couple of months back..

Maybe I'm wrong.. maybe he has been going to tournaments and I just can't find his new matches.

I don't know about you guys but I think HDL is so fun to watch.. us Link mains need him to be active. He has paved a bit of the way for Link players.
I know him in person, He said he is going to Evo, might only use link in favorable matches but doing marth.
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Local monthly was 2 saturdays ago. The videos are up, so I'm going to post them. I placed 4th.

Round 1 - No opponent (we did top 3 from pools and top seed gets a free win)

Round 2 - Diego [Falco]
Not recorded. I won 2-0.

Round 3 - vs Bam [Falco] (Quite possibly best Falco in Canada - he is rank 2 in the city where Kage is rank 4. This is the biggest choke of my entire smash career lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0ksGCtM5Bw

Round 4 - vs DV [Falco]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVb_osp7cVM

Round 5 - vs Vanitas [Ice Climbers]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzHK2vwhmBs

Round 6 - vs Cemo [Ice Climbers]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAa05Fc5CTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u3_sIK6gtA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDgNiwtFu78

Round 7 - vs Cman [Fox] (He is rank #2 in my city and I am rank #1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_piHXZLyQQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpAN7K5pYxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phANo3tHJcc

I am a bit disappointed that I lost to Cman (I usually beat him), but he was playing very well in our set.

I am also disappointed that I choked that hard against Bam. As a note, it was supposed to be a nair, not a bair. I'm still glad I came that close to beating him, though, since the closest I've gotten before was 2 stocks off lol.

I am glad I beat both ice climber players because that matchup was one I was slightly worried about, but my plans came through and worked quite well.

Shield dropping is broken and everyone should learn it. It is especially powerful with characters that have weaker OoS options, and Link is one of them.
 

bagsntrane

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
47
you play very well SAUS, and are quite a ways better than I but i feel like you could have used upbOOS on the ICS when the do an aerial on shield when you are on a platform....
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
you play very well SAUS, and are quite a ways better than I but i feel like you could have used upbOOS on the ICS when the do an aerial on shield when you are on a platform....
Thanks! :) Ya, I think I don't use that option enough in general. It's unsafe in a lot of situations, so I don't use it much, but recognising where I can use it and using it there would be a good idea. I have very little practice against ICs, so my matches against them were largely improvised.
 
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bagsntrane

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
47
My main training partner uses ICs so that is all I play against. If they are at high percent and attack your shield on a platform upboos is very viable against them
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi2KvseX4lw

I was kicking myself for the two SDs and missing the tether (which I also attribute as an SD). I'm the guy in the fabulous pink shirt, in case anyone's wondering.
Watching this now. I'll write down some tips for you.

0:32 - if Fox is using his up-b in that spot, he can only do a few angles to mix it up. If you back up, you can cover all of his options.
2:05 - you do a down-throw and try to up-b him, but he is at too low damage for that (it works starting at ~125 damage on fox). Instead, you can do an up-throw into down smash to add on more damage and force him to tech.
3:59 - in the spot he was using his up-b, he can only go straight up (this is because of battlefield edges), so up-b edge-guard is guaranteed unless he can sweet spot, so try to judge the distance. In any case, you didn't need to back up from the edge this time.

Hopefully this is helpful to you.
 

Pug

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
156
Location
Adelaide Hills, South Australia
Watching this now. I'll write down some tips for you.

0:32 - if Fox is using his up-b in that spot, he can only do a few angles to mix it up. If you back up, you can cover all of his options.
2:05 - you do a down-throw and try to up-b him, but he is at too low damage for that (it works starting at ~125 damage on fox). Instead, you can do an up-throw into down smash to add on more damage and force him to tech.
3:59 - in the spot he was using his up-b, he can only go straight up (this is because of battlefield edges), so up-b edge-guard is guaranteed unless he can sweet spot, so try to judge the distance. In any case, you didn't need to back up from the edge this time.

Hopefully this is helpful to you.
It absolutely is! Thanks a lot.
 

Cherished Doll

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
3,226
Location
Fishman Island
OMGOSH, It's been a while since I've logged on/updated this.

I apologize. I will take the time on Wednesday to go over all the post and adjust the first post!

Sorry guys! :c
 

Dextrose

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
38
Location
Michigan
I've been reading through this whole thread, which has great information, but i was wondering who can give me some tips to fight a scruby fox play who spams gun and up smashes and Uairs, he also sheild grabs me a lot
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
I've been reading through this whole thread, which has great information, but i was wondering who can give me some tips to fight a scruby fox play who spams gun and up smashes and Uairs, he also sheild grabs me a lot
When you say he spams gun, do you mean he runs away and shoots at you/camps? Against this kind of play, you have to just take your time. Learn some setups with boomerang + bomb where it is very hard for him to escape. In this matchup, you want to combo fox to death as much as possible, so don't worry about some laser damage. Just jump to a platform to pull out a bomb and then approach with your setup.

When is he hitting you with up-smashes and up-airs? If he is being very obvious with his up-smashes (ie running up to you and up-smashing), then try shield grabbing him. It is not uncommon to 0-death fox off of a grab.

Getting shield grabbed is a problem for everyone, but it is especially bad with Link because he has no safe moves on shield (unless spaced well), and on top of that, his opponents don't have to worry about it because Link's grab is too slow for a lot of moves.

To avoid being shield grabbed as Link, you have to learn how to space your moves and not be obvious with your attack. This ultimately leads to spaced jabs and forward-airs (hit from as far away as possible and don't be moving forward when you go for the forward air - jump back and do it if possible). You can also lead your shield pressure with a bomb. It is very nice because they tend to bounce high off of their shield which allows you to catch them and throw them again. You can also just let the bomb fall back on top of them.

There's also another way to fight against the shield - don't attack it. What you can do instead is try to use an attack that will shield poke him (hit where his shield isn't - you will see parts of his body start to stick out of his shield - like his head or feet). Link's down smash is particularly good at shield poking. Wait a bit and then down-smash.

It's definitely not easy, but beating shield grab is one of the big hurdles to being good at melee. Hopefully this helps you out.
 

Dextrose

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
38
Location
Michigan
BTW, what moves can Link do after L canceling a nair( or any other arial attack) on someone who's blocking to make yourself safe (if that makes sense)?
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
BTW, what moves can Link do after L canceling a nair( or any other arial attack) on someone who's blocking to make yourself safe (if that makes sense)?
Nothing. There are very few characters in the game that are safe if they land next to their opponent after doing an aerial. You have to space around them or have bombs flying around. If you find yourself in that spot, you can try to do a buffered roll or spot dodge or maybe throw out a jab if you think they will react too slow, but you don't really want to be going for these options.

Off of a spaced fair on their shield, you can jab them (once or twice), retreat into boomerang, retreat into pivot grab, retreat and pull a bomb, ... lots of stuff. Mix up spaced fairs with no aerial into waveland. It's not always about attack options.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzb4GxMTmyE

This is basically where I am. I have a long way to go still haha
It's always nice to see some other Link videos.

I think you did too many full hop nairs and a lot of your move choices were unsafe against crouch cancelling. Against spacies, until about 40%, you can't use down-smash or dash attack. Nair is fairly unsafe, but if you don't use it too much, it's fine. You have a decent amount of options out of full hop nair. I prefer to use it more when they are at higher damage, though.

You can definitely increase your speed - mostly by opting not to do attacks in favour of dash dancing or wavelanding around. I also noticed that you were walking instead of dashing in a lot of cases. Is this on purpose? I felt like you didn't fast fall that much either (though you aren't really supposed to with full hop nair, so it's fine in most of those cases).

I don't think I saw a single up-air in the whole set. It's one of Link's best moves. It can help start combos and is a combo move itself. It also does 16 damage if you land the strong hit :D With Link, I find moving up and down with platform movement is extremely powerful. It can easily provoke your opponent into going into the air (almost every character is vulnerable in the air) and it unlocks the shield drop (which I think every player should learn). Link's up-air hits on frame 5 (that's fast!!!). Shield drop up-air can get you a lot of combos. You can also even shield drop and throw your bomb up (if you have one).

I also noticed a familiar habit :p I find myself doing it as well sometimes and always find I perform better when I pay attention to it. When you have a bomb, you have quite a while before it blows up. I'm disappointed in myself that I don't actually no the exact time lol. Anyway, the habit is where you throw it as soon as you get any opportunity. The mix ups between attacking and not attacking are very powerful. It applies to bombs as well.

What are your reasons for going to FD for game 2? I find I hate that stage. Platforms are good for Link's movement and for allowing shield drops. In general, I hate FD for all the characters I play, so I can easily be bias on this.
 
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