Official For Glory / Online Features Discussion (／・ω・)／

[PizzaWenisaur]

I dunno if anyone here's already discussed this, but does anyone else want some kind of lobbies against random players? And with all the amount of items, does anyone think something like Mario Kart 7's communities could be adapted for this series?

Yea, I thought about this too. I can see it going both ways. Of course, if he did add communities you could have a lot of really cool ones. I'm a little partial for No-Items, Team-Stock with Friendly Fire myself, but I can see why Sakurai wouldn't make that an official mode for online play.

But I guess he didn't want to just copy Mario Kart. Also he might've wanted to try to make the Smash online community as compact as possible. More modes means less people in each one - so perhaps he wanted to insure you can always find a match in the standard modes.

I was rooting for Mario Kart style communities at first, but I understand why he would opt for a different solution.

@GUIGUI

It's a huge improvement over Brawl - I was so happy about that. One of my favorite things about the Smash Direct was Sakurai admitting that Brawl's online sucked ( he didn't say it like but...).

 

[ChikoLad]

He pretty much said the online from Brawl sucked in a nice fashion.

One feature I kind of hope is in "With Friends" mode is the Tourney Mode from past games (though I would like to see this mode be improved in general). I think it'd be a great way to basically have Skype parties (which may not be necessary if the game has some voice chat). It would also be helpful for online tournaments in general.

It's probably wishful thinking, though I feel Bandai Namco being on board just opens up so many possibilities for online modes.

 

[Andinus]

While I do wish for glory would have allowed 2 more stages like smashville or battlefield, it's better than nothing for those craving 1 on 1 matches. I'm curious though if in for fun all stage picks will be random, or if we will at least get to vote on a stage like in brawl? Also will items be on low medium or high? I would guess medium, but prefer low.

 

[MAGMIS]

I <3 for glory mode how it is. Also I think they are balancing char using the final destination which could make sense as to why sakurai only wants final destination in for glory mode. If competitive players are defined as "the more fair of a fight it is the better it is for them."

 

[PizzaWenisaur]

That would be pretty fun. I don't know a lot about the Wii U's voice capabilities but hopefully the Wii U will support good voice chat in game; I remember buying the Wii Speak for around 20 bucks and I slowly realized it supported only like 5 games and in those games nobody used it ( at least not for Monster Hunter Tri ).

I always thought perhaps one of the reasons why they brought Namco Bandai along is because not only are they known for making fighting games with really good online stability - but also they are well versed in making less-traditional fighting games. Of course, that's just my speculation.

 

[Andinus]

I don't know to be honest. I think the biggest reason behind Brawl's connectivity being such a dud was because the service was tested only regionally in Japan, and Japan has amazing infrastructure for this kind of thing. I don't think they were looking to build an online presence (since it targeted such a young demographic) so they made peer-to-peer the model for the game's connectivity, compounding the issue.

I think by now they recognize the need to upgrade their services, even accounting for oversea infrastructures.

It sucked in Japan too though, I lived there at the time and initially gave up on online play because of it. Of course that is not to say I was necessarily playing with people in Japan though I suppose..

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I <3 for glory mode how it is. Also I think they are balancing char using the final destination which could make sense as to why sakurai only wants final destination in for glory mode. If competitive players are defined as "the more fair of a fight it is the better it is for them."

I swear for a moment i thought i was the only one who thought this. Why do people find its so hard to believe that there might be no need for other stages since all the characters will probably be balanced to operate at maximum competitive level on FD.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I swear for a moment i thought i was the only one who thought this. Why do people find its so hard to believe that there might be no need for other stages since all the characters will probably be balanced to operate at maximum competitive level on FD.

Previous games have been balanced around a stage like Final Destination. It hasn't been a monumental success, as I'm sure you've seen.

 

[MAGMIS]

Previous games have been balanced around a stage like Final Destination. It hasn't been a monumental success, as I'm sure you've seen.

Was brawl balanced around the stage final destination?

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Was brawl balanced around the stage final destination?

Something similar. There is an older article floating around that I can't find where he specifically states that he pits players of different skill levels on a flat stage (think the tutorial stage from Smash 64.) The closest thing I can find is him speaking is more in the present tense on how games are balanced:

"So in regards to overall game balance, what we do is we use sort of this monitor playtest where we set up players of a certain level to play highly-skilled players in an arena. For example, an arena just with maybe a single platform and we watch them fight over a certain amount of time and view video from that and decide at a high level how to make adjustments to that for the base." - Here.

It's pretty similar to what's been done before.

 

[MAGMIS]

Something similar. There is an older article floating around that I can't find where he specifically states that he pits players of different skill levels on a flat stage (think the tutorial stage from Smash 64.) The closest thing I can find is him speaking is more in the present tense on how games are balanced:

"So in regards to overall game balance, what we do is we use sort of this monitor playtest where we set up players of a certain level to play highly-skilled players in an arena. For example, an arena just with maybe a single platform and we watch them fight over a certain amount of time and view video from that and decide at a high level how to make adjustments to that for the base." - Here.

It's pretty similar to what's been done before.

was that interview recent if so doesn't that mean his still testing it that way with final destination.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

was that interview recent if so doesn't that mean his still testing it that way with final destination.

Possibly, but like I said, it's happened before and a lot of the cast did not end up being so strong on Final Destination, quite the contrary to what RWD thinks they will end up being.

 

[MAGMIS]

Possibly, but like I said, it's happened before and a lot of the cast did not end up being so strong on Final Destination, quite the contrary to what RWD thinks they will end up being.

However it could be balanced because of the transformation being gone and less cloney char in this gam so far and no sign of falco and wolf so far. but lets not get out of topic with char. No fighting game can be 100% balanced we should all keep that in mind. just that brawl was horribly balanced especially when tripping was included.

 

[ChikoLad]

Something similar. There is an older article floating around that I can't find where he specifically states that he pits players of different skill levels on a flat stage (think the tutorial stage from Smash 64.) The closest thing I can find is him speaking is more in the present tense on how games are balanced:

"So in regards to overall game balance, what we do is we use sort of this monitor playtest where we set up players of a certain level to play highly-skilled players in an arena. For example, an arena just with maybe a single platform and we watch them fight over a certain amount of time and view video from that and decide at a high level how to make adjustments to that for the base." - Here.

It's pretty similar to what's been done before.

I read that before, but he's not saying that he exclusively tested on/balanced for FD, he is only giving an example. He tests on multiple terrains. In the same article:

As far as the overall balance, if you were to take that and then put it in a flat playing field and have characters fight, you get a situation where suddenly, it's no different than any other fighting game. We realized that having different positioning, there's a lot of factors that occur in vertical elements of the stages. Once you get the core balance, then you can stretch out from there and realize, well, players don't want to play a normal flat fighting game: they want the special peculiarities of Smash Bros., where there's a lot of verticality, where the collision detection is a little broader. And the overall balancing goes factoring in those vertical elements as well.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

I read that before, but he's not saying that he exclusively tested on/balanced for FD, he is only giving an example. He tests on multiple terrains. In the same article:

I'm aware of that. That's why I said it was something similar. @ Road Death Wheel If I am reading your question correctly, you can just read the article I shared with MAGMIS.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I'm aware of that. That's why I said it was something similar. @ Road Death Wheel If I am reading your question correctly, you can just read the article I shared with MAGMIS.

yeah sorry it was a disorganized question that was already answered as i read the more recent post srry to trouble you.

 

[Starcutter]

I'll probably be on "For Glory" a lot, stepping up my game on a daily basis.

 

[LOGIA666]

I'll probably be on "For Glory" a lot, stepping up my game on a daily basis.

Same here. I plan to play on it quite abit.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Haven't read much of the thread aside from the first and last page, so correct me if I'm wrong.

My personal qualm with the For Glory mode isn't the online matchmaking mode itself. Sure, no one likes time, and some people prefer having the only stage choice being the FD "flat with no platforms" for the sake of avoiding possible situations where a "bad" platform layout causes people to cry when the stage gets picked by the randomizer in the online mode.

My qualm is that these "FD" versions will be selectable in local play. These stages could easily be made to have some additional platforms that would make the selection more interesting. Imagine playing locally and having a neutral pick that spanned almost the entire roster of stages, as well as any stages that are in the main game that are not ban-worthy as neutral or counterpick. There is so much potential in this for stage choice! I, for one, would be more than willing to risk playing on a "bad" platform layout in the For Glory online mode just to have more interesting neutral stage choice in local play!

That said, did this attention-grabbing plot ever go anywhere? I would have hopped on myself, but the tweet's numbers seem just short of 500 and I can't find any recent campaigns for this.

 

[MAGMIS]

Haven't read much of the thread aside from the first and last page, so correct me if I'm wrong.

My personal qualm with the For Glory mode isn't the online matchmaking mode itself. Sure, no one likes time, and some people prefer having the only stage choice being the FD "flat with no platforms" for the sake of avoiding possible situations where a "bad" platform layout causes people to cry when the stage gets picked by the randomizer in the online mode.

My qualm is that these "FD" versions will be selectable in local play. These stages could easily be made to have some additional platforms that would make the selection more interesting. Imagine playing locally and having a neutral pick that spanned almost the entire roster of stages, as well as any stages that are in the main game that are not ban-worthy as neutral or counterpick. There is so much potential in this for stage choice! I, for one, would be more than willing to risk playing on a "bad" platform layout in the For Glory online mode just to have more interesting neutral stage choice in local play!

That said, did this attention-grabbing plot ever go anywhere? I would have hopped on myself, but the tweet's numbers seem just short of 500 and I can't find any recent campaigns for this.

I think sakurai doesn't understand the our term of being a competitive players. But everyone has there own which mine is "where distinct (char wise) players desires to have 100% fair fight against a different player WITH no interruptions between the two." And playing FD does that with no items. I just hate randomness i want to know beforehand. as long as i know the stage im good and my char playable on it. That's my understanding. Competitive = Hates random poop happening.

 

[SmashBro99]

I will call For Glory "Try Hard Mode"

Not in a negative way, I love this feature, you can play however you feel online

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Haven't read much of the thread aside from the first and last page, so correct me if I'm wrong.

My personal qualm with the For Glory mode isn't the online matchmaking mode itself. Sure, no one likes time, and some people prefer having the only stage choice being the FD "flat with no platforms" for the sake of avoiding possible situations where a "bad" platform layout causes people to cry when the stage gets picked by the randomizer in the online mode.

My qualm is that these "FD" versions will be selectable in local play. These stages could easily be made to have some additional platforms that would make the selection more interesting. Imagine playing locally and having a neutral pick that spanned almost the entire roster of stages, as well as any stages that are in the main game that are not ban-worthy as neutral or counterpick. There is so much potential in this for stage choice! I, for one, would be more than willing to risk playing on a "bad" platform layout in the For Glory online mode just to have more interesting neutral stage choice in local play!

That said, did this attention-grabbing plot ever go anywhere? I would have hopped on myself, but the tweet's numbers seem just short of 500 and I can't find any recent campaigns for this.

Yeah this has been discussed already. And basically its a wait and see bit. since It was put out there that its very possible that every character could be balanced for FD so platforms and counters picks aren't needed.
Of course if you arguing balance vs variation that's more of a personal opinion.
its undoubtable that it would be easier to balance every character for 1 flat stage over ones with platforms.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Yeah this has been discussed already. And basically its a wait and see bit. since It was put out there that its very possible that every character could be balanced for FD so platforms and counters picks aren't needed.
Of course if you arguing balance vs variation that's more of a personal opinion.
its undoubtable that it would be easier to balance every character for 1 flat stage over ones with platforms.

I suppose so, though with a cast as varied as this one I'm not sure how well something like that would be pulled off. That and the post Sakurai made months back saying that they wouldn't be focusing too much on balancing the cast.

 

[MAGMIS]

I suppose so, though with a cast as varied as this one I'm not sure how well something like that would be pulled off. That and the post Sakurai made months back saying that they wouldn't be focusing too much on balancing the cast.

Sakurai mentioned about not focusing on the balance, no I think it's the other way around he mentioned that his going to need to focus on the balance on each char.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

Sakurai mentioned about not focusing on the balance, no I think it's the other way around he mentioned that his going to need to focus on the balance on each char.

It seems I was misinformed, then. Someone told me it was the opposite, stating that Sakurai mentioned the game would become too stagnant and unvaried if too much effort was put towards balancing the game. Looking up the quote for myself, I see I was mistaken.

 

[Renji64]

I still hope there is a battlefield option as well. Just a option to turn off stage hazards would make a big difference.

 

[LancerStaff]

It seems I was misinformed, then. Someone told me it was the opposite, stating that Sakurai mentioned the game would become too stagnant and unvaried if too much effort was put towards balancing the game. Looking up the quote for myself, I see I was mistaken.

He's actually said both, if I remember correctly. He's putting much more effort into balancing, (More like he isn't just winging it like the last three games.) but he doesn't want things to be stagnant.

 

[S_B]

I haven't read all 8 pages, but I feel this needs to be said...

Until we know how Sm4sh truly plays, I don't think we can decide what's going to work for competitive stages.

This is a whole new game, balanced by a whole new team, one who actually knows HOW to balance fighting games. If they choose FD for "the" competitive stage, I trust that they're not going to do it without extensive testing to ensure that the stage isn't horribly unfavorable to any characters in particular.

I also expect that we'll be seeing post release balance patches. So in the end, I'm not worried about it. We can't approach SSB4 with the mindset that it'll give similar advantage/disadvantage to certain characters on FD as Brawl did.

 

[RelaxAlax]

I haven't read all 8 pages, but I feel this needs to be said...

Until we know how Sm4sh truly plays, I don't think we can decide what's going to work for competitive stages.

This is a whole new game, balanced by a whole new team, one who actually knows HOW to balance fighting games. If they choose FD for "the" competitive stage, I trust that they're not going to do it without extensive testing to ensure that the stage isn't horribly unfavorable to any characters in particular.

I also expect that we'll be seeing post release balance patches. So in the end, I'm not worried about it. We can't approach SSB4 with the mindset that it'll give similar advantage/disadvantage to certain characters on FD as Brawl did.

Exactly, you can't strike it out yet. Although I feel some characters need to be poor on final destination just because of their natural way of play, otherwise everyone feels the same. It's amazing how much stage difference matters. But anyways, yes, you can't make conclusions over something you've seen only for 2 minutes. So keep aware of it, but don't expect to solve anything yet.

 

[Pazzo.]

Exactly, you can't strike it out yet. Although I feel some characters need to be poor on final destination just because of their natural way of play, otherwise everyone feels the same. It's amazing how much stage difference matters. But anyways, yes, you can't make conclusions over something you've seen only for 2 minutes. So keep aware of it, but don't expect to solve anything yet.

People just like to jump the gun.

 

[Sahfarry]

Personally, I'd rather they not have a "final destination mode", but rather a "stage hazards off mode". All stage hazards would be off, such as stage bosses, damaging weather effects, etc. This way we can keep slopes and platforms.

The only stages that would require "alternate stages" would be walk-off stages and Temple-like stages.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

I haven't read all 8 pages, but I feel this needs to be said...

Until we know how Sm4sh truly plays, I don't think we can decide what's going to work for competitive stages.

This is a whole new game, balanced by a whole new team, one who actually knows HOW to balance fighting games. If they choose FD for "the" competitive stage, I trust that they're not going to do it without extensive testing to ensure that the stage isn't horribly unfavorable to any characters in particular.

I also expect that we'll be seeing post release balance patches. So in the end, I'm not worried about it. We can't approach SSB4 with the mindset that it'll give similar advantage/disadvantage to certain characters on FD as Brawl did.

Lol you just said what i was trying to convey for like 2 pages. But in one post you worded this much better than i ever could have.
But basically yeah i agree with you I personally believe everybody can be balanced and do well on FD and still feel different. (look at street fighter. everyone feels different there.)

 

[Tremendo Dude]

It's entirely possible that characters might be more or less balanced on flat stages, but I still say for the sake of variety that platforms missing from the "neutral" versions of stages is wasted potential. If you take a handful of stages and make flat FD versions, and take another handful and stick some platforms on them, you get more stage variety while staying relatively balanced. Even if every single character was somehow able completely balanced 1v1 against the entire roster on FD (a pipe dream), you'd have 20 different versions of more or less the exact same stage and play-style. There's nothing stopping you from playing on the normal "balanced" stages for the sake of variety, of course, but it's kind of saddening seeing such potential for such a large amount of differing balanced stages go to waste. :/

 

[Road Death Wheel]

It's entirely possible that characters might be more or less balanced on flat stages, but I still say for the sake of variety that platforms missing from the "neutral" versions of stages is wasted potential. If you take a handful of stages and make flat FD versions, and take another handful and stick some platforms on them, you get more stage variety while staying relatively balanced. Even if every single character was somehow able completely balanced 1v1 against the entire roster on FD (a pipe dream), you'd have 20 different versions of more or less the exact same stage and play-style. There's nothing stopping you from playing on the normal "balanced" stages for the sake of variety, of course, but it's kind of saddening seeing such potential for such a large amount of differing balanced stages go to waste. :/

But what you want will immediately cause problems in balancing. if we have platforms than little mac will HAVE to get better air game.Air characters can work with platforms but ground characters are at an immediate disadvantage. What you imply will actually make less character variety since everybody will have to have a decent air game. and much less play styles that there would be than having more the FD only.

 

[Tremendo Dude]

But what you want will immediately cause problems in balancing. if we have platforms than little mac will HAVE to get better air game.Air characters can work with platforms but ground characters are at an immediate disadvantage. What you imply will actually make less character variety since everybody will have to have a decent air game. and much less play styles that there would be than having more the FD only.

Aside from what I said earlier:

I, for one, would be more than willing to risk playing on a "bad" platform layout in the For Glory online mode just to have more interesting neutral stage choice in local play!

I don't think platforms would absolutely destroy Mac, as some platforms would give him more footing in the air as opposed to just straight jumping (if used well). On the other end, as Mac is built to wreck everything on the ground and flop in the air, I'd say the balance is tipped in the other direction on the current rendition of Glory mode, where there are no platforms ever.

Granted you guys are operating on the assumption that everyone will be relatively balanced on level terrain. Mac seems to be an assertion that some characters will be more "balanced" than others.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Aside from what I said earlier:

I don't think platforms would absolutely destroy Mac, as some platforms would give him more footing in the air as opposed to just straight jumping (if used well). On the other end, as Mac is built to wreck everything on the ground and flop in the air, I'd say the balance is tipped in the other direction on the current rendition of Glory mode, where there are no platforms ever.

Granted you guys are operating on the assumption that everyone will be relatively balanced on level terrain. Mac seems to be an assertion that some characters will be more "balanced" than others.

Mac is just the easiest example Xd

 

[Starcutter]

If I made videos of me playing on the for glory lobby would you guys watch it?


I mean, this is still over half a year away, but still, I'm probably going to do it, so I'm asking.

 

[guedes the brawler]

instead of all stages being FS mode, or all stages having that AND a BF mode, i think the best solution would be splitting the stages into 3 groups: 1 with FD versions, 1 with BF versions, and another with Smashville versions.

This way we could have stages being more true to their original versions as well (Pyrosphere would probably work better as a SV stage, while Palutena's Temple fits more with a Battlefield design)

 

[Road Death Wheel]

If I made videos of me playing on the for glory lobby would you guys watch it?


I mean, this is still over half a year away, but still, I'm probably going to do it, so I'm asking.

I watch anything smash related on witch so yeah i would watch xd.

 

[MAGMIS]

instead of all stages being FS mode, or all stages having that AND a BF mode, i think the best solution would be splitting the stages into 3 groups: 1 with FD versions, 1 with BF versions, and another with Smashville versions.

This way we could have stages being more true to their original versions as well (Pyrosphere would probably work better as a SV stage, while Palutena's Temple fits more with a Battlefield design)

Lets keep it to one stage in for glory mode cuz then It will take a much longer amount of time to wait for another player who picked the same category as you.

Adding another stage and dealing with random stage picks (platforms) is like the same thing as playing "for fun" where a lot of random things happen. If u hate something so tedious, example: COD. then play "for fun" because that can also be playable as competitive.

For glory is for the people that don't like random poop happening. Just keeping it a FD is simple and u know what stage you are going to play on always. Playing on one specific stage is the best way to go. If u played the MMO game "League of Legend" you would understand.

For Fun is for the people that don't care about the random things happening because its more of a thrill for them.