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Official For Glory / Online Features Discussion (/・ω・)/

Conis

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I guess the idea is that because it focuses on who you're better than as opposed to just simply ranking you against all other players, it makes you view your skills in a more positive light? Like you think of it as "oh I'm better than this amount of people, that means I'm good!" instead of "oh I'm ranked like 1000000th, that means I suck ):"

(Hope I'm remembering correctly about how Global Smash Power works...)

Sure, if you think about how many people own the game, that kind of breaks the facade, but most people probably won't. Honestly, I doubt most people care enough about their ranking to get discouraged by being ranked low anyway, but I guess with the way GSP works, it'll make them feel more like they're accomplishing something. I dunno.
 
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Deleted member 245254

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So I have a bit of a question that I didn't think warranted it's own thread. Hopefully this is the right place to ask.

Aside from higher numbers being better.... how is Global Smash Power any different than a traditional ranking system? I don't quite understand how reversing the order changes anything, except for the fact that now being the absolute best is slightly more abstracted, whereas before, being the absolute worst was the more difficult number to identify.

If you know how many copies of the game have been purchased, then any ambiguity is gone. At that point, what's the difference?

Am I just really stupid for not understanding the implications? Or is it just cooler to be able to say "MY POWER LEVEL IS OVER 9000! (or whatever suits you)
Yeah it's the same only if you actually had visual access to the kind of pertinent sales information necessary at any point in time you wanted to know your actual relative rank.

Since we won't have that, obviously they are not even close to being the same.

With a traditional ranking system you will know how close you are to being the best. With GSP you know not how close you are to being the best OR the worst.

You have 100,000 GSP. Do you have 100,000 GSP out of 100,050 players, or 100,000 out of 10,000,000 players? With this information not accessible when checking rank, there is no context behind that number, so you can't even really call it a "rank" because it doesn't even meet the standard qualification for what defines a rank.

Don't even get me started on the fact it doesn't even pertain to multiplayer mode at all, so it's basically indicator of nothing and immediately becomes worthless to competitive players (except those who wish to compare single player achievements).
 
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Artsy Omni

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I thought GSP was a very specific number that tells you how many people have inferior records to your own? So if your GSP is 1955, then you're better than 1955 people. So you know exactly how far you are from being the worst (which is 0. Or maybe 1).

And yeah, the number is kinda worthless to competitive players, but let's be honest, there are a lot of elements in Smash that are probably worthless to competitive players. =P
 

skstylez

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So they just announced the invitational ruleset and players. I found this very interesting

A western catered tournament, and what stage do they put grand finals on? And people said we were crazy.:upsidedown:
 
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SmashCast

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I think this will be a GREAT improvement to the online mode from Brawl, For Fun and For Glory are great ideas, and I imagine it as For Glory as a more competitive mode, and For Fun for just scrimmaging.
 
D

Deleted member 245254

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I thought GSP was a very specific number that tells you how many people have inferior records to your own? So if your GSP is 1955, then you're better than 1955 people. So you know exactly how far you are from being the worst (which is 0. Or maybe 1).

And yeah, the number is kinda worthless to competitive players, but let's be honest, there are a lot of elements in Smash that are probably worthless to competitive players. =P
Knowing how far you are from zero gives you absolutely zero context as to how far you are from being good or even average.

It's meaningless without being able to see in both directions.

Being number 1 means nothing if it's out of 2. Being 10,000 means nothing if it's out of 10,000,000.
 

LancerStaff

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Knowing how far you are from zero gives you absolutely zero context as to how far you are from being good or even average.

It's meaningless without being able to see in both directions.

Being number 1 means nothing if it's out of 2. Being 10,000 means nothing if it's out of 10,000,000.
That's the point. It's basically a high score you're supposed to compare with your friends, not an outright leaderboard.
 
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Deleted member 245254

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That's the point. It's basically a high score you're supposed to compare with your friends, not an outright leaderboard.
That's the leading factor in why its stupid, whether it's the point or not.
 
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Deleted member 245254

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Would you rather have nothing? Because there'll never be leaderboards in SSB with Sakurai around.
No, I wouldn't, but that still doesn't make it any less stupid.

The rank doesn't even compare you to your friends properly, considering you can only acquire it by doing single player, not by actually playing your friends.
 

LancerStaff

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No, I wouldn't, but that still doesn't make it any less stupid.

The rank doesn't even compare you to your friends properly, considering you can only acquire it by doing single player, not by actually playing your friends.
It's a single-player ranking system. Yeash. There's going to be a W/L ratio on fG anyway, what else you need?
 
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Deleted member 245254

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It's a single-player ranking system. Yeash. There's going to be a W/L ratio on fG anyway, what else you need?
How about a more intuitively designed system?

The fact they show W/L makes my point stronger. People will go out of their way to tier and rank players for their W/L using other means, the most obvious place being probably here.

Nintendo usually being about convenience and this game being the be-all for catering to what the fans hope for, it seems backwards that they wouldn't simply cut out that effort and give us a seamless way to view it on the platform/in the actual game.

We're going to do it anyway, so what's the point in avoiding the system entirely in some kind of attempt to blind us to a true to form ranking system?
 

LancerStaff

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How about a more intuitively designed system?

The fact they show W/L makes my point stronger. People will go out of their way to tier and rank players for their W/L using other means, the most obvious place being probably here.

Nintendo usually being about convenience and this game being the be-all for catering to what the fans hope for, it seems backwards that they wouldn't simply cut out that effort and give us a seamless way to view it on the platform/in the actual game.

We're going to do it anyway, so what's the point in avoiding the system entirely in some kind of attempt to blind us to a true to form ranking system?
Because they don't want to rank players, and subsequently match them up based on ranking.
 
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Because they don't want to rank players, and subsequently match them up based on ranking.
But they have a matchmaking system planned so that's not true at all..what would be the harm in making the figure that decides your MMR visible?
 

LancerStaff

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But they have a matchmaking system planned so that's not true at all..what would be the harm in making the figure that decides your MMR visible?
The MMR is most likely very simplified or caps out quick. It's probably just so total noobs don't get paired with pros on a regular basis like in KIU.
 
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The MMR is most likely very simplified or caps out quick. It's probably just so total noobs don't get paired with pros on a regular basis like in KIU.
So what system do they have in line to hide the disappointment of seeing a very high loss > win ratio? Nothing.

Might as well show you where you lay along the line.
 

yahooda

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The only thing that bothers me about For Glory is that if I want to play online with no items I have to play on Final Destination. I understand the reasoning for this, however, so I guess I can't complain too much.
 

Pazzo.

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I'm just glad Sakurai recognizes that Brawl's online was junk, and is trying to improve it. That alone makes me glad.
 

Mr. KoopaTurtle

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So, the grand finale for the Invitational will be a 4-stock, 8-minute match on Battlefield. So Nintendo is at least aware that BF is a competitively viable stage in Smash. So why leave it out of For Glory? Eh, it doesn't matter to me too much, I'm fine with FD.

I just don't want timed matches to be the only option. It's frustrating trying to get the most KO's in FFA. You build up a character's damage to a high percent, but a player comes out of nowhere and finishes them off, so they get the point. I guess in 1v1 in won't matter as much, because it's just you and your opponent.
 

Pazzo.

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I'm going to feel so bad for the guy who's GSP is 0....
 
D

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I'm going to feel so bad for the guy who's GSP is 0....
It's likely 0 will be applied to any player who does not complete at least one activity that increases your GSP.

There's no reason to feel bad for a player who, quite literally, does not play the game.
 

Pazzo.

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It's likely 0 will be applied to any player who does not complete at least one activity that increases your GSP.

There's no reason to feel bad for a player who, quite literally, does not play the game.
upload_2014-6-5_23-55-12.jpeg


I wasn't attempting to make a small jest, not a serious sympathetic call out to the non-existent player. I highly doubt that a '0' rank will exist, like you said.

But I'm still excited for it. I've always wanted 'Smash Rankings".
 

Reila

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are you people ever pleased honestly i'm interested to know
Why do you even ask. There is no way to please this fandom. Or better, there is no way to please the small part of the fandom who care about competition.

Anyway, I am really excited for the For Glory mode.
 

Miles Pierre

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Hey remember when me and a bunch of other posters (@PizzaWenisaur ) said Little Mac would be fighting at a huge advantage in For Glory mode and a bunch of other near-sighted and quite frankly naive and simple minded posters said we were being crazy? Remember how we argued that platforms were a crucial element to balancing and at the very least battle field should have been included in that mode? Yeah. Good times. I patiently await @ ChikoLad ChikoLad 's response.
 
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LancerStaff

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Hey remember when me and a bunch of other posters (@PizzaWenisaur ) said Little Mac would be fighting at a huge advantage in For Glory mode and a bunch of other near-sighted and quite frankly naive and simple minded posters said we were being crazy? Remember how we argued that platforms were a crucial element to balancing and at the very least battle field should have been included in that mode? Yeah. Good times. I patiently await @ ChikoLad ChikoLad 's response.
You forget, the entire game was balanced around the stage. Sakurai ain't stupid. If anything, I'd wager that FD is the only thing keeping Mac around.
 

ChikoLad

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Hey remember when me and a bunch of other posters (@PizzaWenisaur ) said Little Mac would be fighting at a huge advantage in For Glory mode and a bunch of other near-sighted and quite frankly naive and simple minded posters said we were being crazy? Remember how we argued that platforms were a crucial element to balancing and at the very least battle field should have been included in that mode? Yeah. Good times. I patiently await @ ChikoLad ChikoLad 's response.
First off, I can't believe you'd hold a vendetta about this for what is about three quarters of a year at this point, and the fact that even now, you are more concerned about what I think about this, rather than taking some proper action to make the change you desire (such as making sure Nintendo hears your sentiment), proves that you just have this petty vendetta and that you absolutely have to feel like you're right in a discussion and will not let it go until someone concedes.

Secondly, tone down the condescending "well of course I'm always right" attitude.

Thirdly (and to add extra justification to my second point), you couldn't be more wrong about Little Mac having a huge advantage on FD. It's his best stage, yes, but as LancerStaff has said, it's not making him broken, it's arguably the only thing keeping him around. The general consensus is that most Little Mac players in For Glory are beginners, and use him to take down other beginners who don't understand how Little Mac plays (such as people who don't understand his Super Armour).

However, most solid players won't have a hard time against Little Mac at all. He may not ever have to jump on FD, but sticking to the ground means he can always be outwitted and knocked to the side (keeping in mind that he will always be at the lower half of the stage, as in, closer to the bottom boundary), and subsequently chased off with aerials. You don't even have to K.O him at the side boundary, just push him off and let him fall to the bottom. Plus, the fact that Little Mac has no reason to jump makes him an AWFUL lot more predictable than most other characters, since he is never going to attempt to fight in the air, effectively making his move pool a lot shorter. Also, he's completely vulnerable to being spiked off stage.

I've only fought one really good Little Mac, and did so in With Friends mode (which I did because, again, like I suggested, you can always do this if you really want to play online in stages other than FD, with custom rulesets and all). He was admittedly tough for my Rosalina to deal with, but that was due to my own inexperience with fighting Little Mac. I did get the match up down though, and now he's a lot easier to deal with. Plus, the player commented that I "play Rosalina like a pro", indicating that I must have gave his Little Mac a hard time too. It should also be noted that a third player, primarily playing as Pac Man and Sonic, was in the mix too, so this also had an influence on how both of us played for most of the matches (which were 5 stock without a timer).

And I only had trouble with him on FD to begin with. Little Mac was hopeless against me on any other stage. And I did get better at fighting him on FD eventually, to the point where I was starting to win more matches.

I've even seen more than one topic on this very website, specifically complaining about the abundance of Little Macs in For Glory. Not because they are difficult, but because they are too easy and therefore uninteresting to fight.

While I have not experienced an abundance of Little Macs in For Glory myself (my most common opponent is probably Greninja), I'm sure it's just a phase, much like how Ike was extremely common in Brawl's online in the early days.

And like I said before, I actually am not against Battlefield being added to For Glory, I just don't particularly care either way. If anything, having Battlefield would potentially make things a cake walk for me online, because having platforms is an excellent thing for Rosalina, makes her arguably broken.

Also, please don't pretend the meta has been defined in a weekend of the game's online mode, that's probably you're most glaring slip up here.
 

Reila

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Hey remember when me and a bunch of other posters (@PizzaWenisaur ) said Little Mac would be fighting at a huge advantage in For Glory mode and a bunch of other near-sighted and quite frankly naive and simple minded posters said we were being crazy? Remember how we argued that platforms were a crucial element to balancing and at the very least battle field should have been included in that mode? Yeah. Good times. I patiently await @ ChikoLad ChikoLad 's response.
Except the Final Destinations stages are fine and it is obvious that the game was designed with those stages in mind. Stop crying.
 

MAGMIS

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I am starting to understand why people were complaining about stage variants as soon as I started watching some tournaments I remembered again about how smash bros the game itself is and all Final destination makes it closer to any other fighting game which imo think that smash bros should be a fighter that should be nowhere near to what other fighting games are.

The game being very very "unique" is what brought us to playing the game in the first place.

also the "crossover" element. but the main reason is "unique" imo. lol

not really the whole factor for everyone. but for me, it is.


But now the game has released, I think we should all get this clear that for glory is for practice/experiment on a individual character, not match ups.
 
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