Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Bones0]

I'm going to be on the lookout for some, I know last year there were a few tournaments at my college and there might be some held at my local mall. My friend I play with the most is learning advanced techs too so we are doing good practicing with one another. I find it's harder for me to do the advanced techs consistently facing him though compared to when I am practicing alone for whatever reason.

Dash dancing is something I have also been working on some and though I can do a dash dance I haven't put it to much use yet because I haven't quite figured out how to. I am a bit behind though because my friend has already chosen a main and I am still torn between three. I have always had Link as my main character since I first played the game but now being competitive I know I am going to have to choose somebody else to step it up.

If you want to play Link, I don't think you should feel obligated to play a top tier just because you are utilizing advanced techs now. What I usually recommend to new players who have a mid-low tier as their main is to continue using that character and pick one top tier as a co-main. If you get to a point in your game where you feel like Link is legitimately preventing you from reaching the skill level you want, then at least you would have that option to change characters. Even if that becomes the case it isn't black and white. A player with a good top tier and mid-low tier character could use both in many ways. You could use Link most of the time and simply cover the worse matchups or stages with your top tier, you could use your top tier most of the time and Link for specific matchups that you are good at to abuse peoples' matchup inexperience, or you could just decide to drop Link completely.

Maybe that's weird advice since most people would just tell you to quit Link and never turn back, but I think your decision should be based on what you want out of playing Melee. If you want to be the best in the world, yeah, you're gonna have to drop the Link. If you just want to be a high level player who has earned the respect of other competitors or just want to enjoy playing Link despite his limitations, then obviously dropping him will probably make you enjoy the game less and consequently get less out of it. I played another game where I mained a low tier for the first year or so, and then I switched to a top tier and enjoyed the game just as much (if not more because I get frustrated a lot when I lose), but I never regretted keeping up with my low tier even after I changed mains because I could occasionally go back to my original main and just enjoy the character for what he was.

 

[Strider]

Dash dance really is easy to learn, but hard to implement correctly. Well, beyond the point of "I don't want to go over there, and staying still is making it easy for my opponent to perfectly space, so I'll just keep moving back and forth" :D
And everybody feels that way about tech being easy in practice but hard in matches. It's because you can't use all your mental focus on techskill during the later (at least you shouldn't).

Exactly! I can do it, I just don't really implement it very much yet fighting my friends because I just haven't figured out how I really need to yet. I really wish there were better ways to practice alone, because I practice by myself and think wow I can really do all this stuff well and can't wait to fitght other people. Then I actually fight them and I don't pull off the stuff near as well or as efficient as I would like to.

If you want to play Link, I don't think you should feel obligated to play a top tier just because you are utilizing advanced techs now. What I usually recommend to new players who have a mid-low tier as their main is to continue using that character and pick one top tier as a co-main. If you get to a point in your game where you feel like Link is legitimately preventing you from reaching the skill level you want, then at least you would have that option to change characters. Even if that becomes the case it isn't black and white. A player with a good top tier and mid-low tier character could use both in many ways. You could use Link most of the time and simply cover the worse matchups or stages with your top tier, you could use your top tier most of the time and Link for specific matchups that you are good at to abuse peoples' matchup inexperience, or you could just decide to drop Link completely.

Maybe that's weird advice since most people would just tell you to quit Link and never turn back, but I think your decision should be based on what you want out of playing Melee. If you want to be the best in the world, yeah, you're gonna have to drop the Link. If you just want to be a high level player who has earned the respect of other competitors or just want to enjoy playing Link despite his limitations, then obviously dropping him will probably make you enjoy the game less and consequently get less out of it. I played another game where I mained a low tier for the first year or so, and then I switched to a top tier and enjoyed the game just as much (if not more because I get frustrated a lot when I lose), but I never regretted keeping up with my low tier even after I changed mains because I could occasionally go back to my original main and just enjoy the character for what he was.

Well I had actually decided to do something like that and keep Young Link as a secondary I pull out for fun or situations where I could use him. I also do want to be a high level player that can compete well with other high leveled players and so I do think I would need a higher tier character to do that. I just haven't decided between Fox or Marth yet.

One thing that seems to happen to me though is that when I L cancel I tend to throw up a shield sometimes right as I land. Am I just pressing L too late if I see that happening?

 

[Xyzz]

Or you're holding the trigger for too long. L cancel into shield is possible, but sadly not the best option in the world

 

[S7GF]

Yeah, I have to agree with Xyzz here. L is being held too long.

 

[Bones0]

Don't press L all the way. Just light press it. Not only will it make it much easier to not accidentally shield, but you won't waste your tech inputs so it's a good habit to get into early.

 

[Strider]

Ah yeah you guys are probably right, I always hit it kinda hard and because of that I might be holding it too long. I will try to start making it a habit to only lightly press it and not let it click, and I am still learning all the terms so what exactly is a tech input? I actually played with a couple friends tonight and did well, I practiced dash dancing a lot and applied my use of wavedashing in quite a few situations.

I have noticed though that in most pro matches I watch it doesn't seem people do a ton of rolling to dodge, what's the main downside to using that as your main source of evading? Because I still tend to use that a lot to avoid direct attacks. Also...is there a downside to using a wavebird? I never see people using them and I read somewhere that they can lag compared to a wired one, is there any truth to that?

Thanks for the help so far guys, I appreciate it and am learning my way around.

 

[Bones0]

Ah yeah you guys are probably right, I always hit it kinda hard and because of that I might be holding it too long. I will try to start making it a habit to only lightly press it and not let it click, and I am still learning all the terms so what exactly is a tech input? I actually played with a couple friends tonight and did well, I practiced dash dancing a lot and applied my use of wavedashing in quite a few situations.

I have noticed though that in most pro matches I watch it doesn't seem people do a ton of rolling to dodge, what's the main downside to using that as your main source of evading? Because I still tend to use that a lot to avoid direct attacks. Also...is there a downside to using a wavebird? I never see people using them and I read somewhere that they can lag compared to a wired one, is there any truth to that?

Thanks for the help so far guys, I appreciate it and am learning my way around.

By tech input, I meant when you press L/R to immediately stand or roll after landing from tumble. You can't spam L/R when you want to tech because the game ignores a tech input if you pressed L/R all the way in the past 40 frames, and the window for a successful tech after pressing L/R is only 20 frames. So if you L-cancel with a hard press and get immediately knocked over, you may land during the 20 frames between your first tech input and the next soonest possible tech input.

People don't roll because it's punishable. It is quite effective vs. worse players, but good players will realize you are dodging their attacks with it and simply fake an attack and then punish you. WDing OoS or avoiding shielding in the first place are generally preferable ways of dealing with pressure.

I think Wavebirds lag, but even if they don't, you can't use them at tournaments because apparently just about everything interferes with the connection (other Wavebirds, cell phones, etc). That's just what someone told me though. If you're just practicing beginner stuff with a Wavebird because it's all you have, you won't have a hard time transitioning to a regular controller, but I wouldn't put it off for too long.

 

[Strider]

By tech input, I meant when you press L/R to immediately stand or roll after landing from tumble. You can't spam L/R when you want to tech because the game ignores a tech input if you pressed L/R all the way in the past 40 frames, and the window for a successful tech after pressing L/R is only 20 frames. So if you L-cancel with a hard press and get immediately knocked over, you may land during the 20 frames between your first tech input and the next soonest possible tech input.

People don't roll because it's punishable. It is quite effective vs. worse players, but good players will realize you are dodging their attacks with it and simply fake an attack and then punish you. WDing OoS or avoiding shielding in the first place are generally preferable ways of dealing with pressure.

I think Wavebirds lag, but even if they don't, you can't use them at tournaments because apparently just about everything interferes with the connection (other Wavebirds, cell phones, etc). That's just what someone told me though. If you're just practicing beginner stuff with a Wavebird because it's all you have, you won't have a hard time transitioning to a regular controller, but I wouldn't put it off for too long.

Ah, I didn't know it ignored it if you pressed it all the way down like that. I guess that might explain why it doesn't happen for me sometimes.

I guess rolling is another habit to be broken. Feels weird to stop doing things I have been doing since I started playing years ago though.

 

[Chikorita]

Well, this is my first post here, so I hope it doesn't flop. Hey all.

I'm trying to get a group of people I smashfest with to improve at the game at a rapid rate; of the fourteen of us who play only two of us (myself included) are actually decent at the game (I'll refer to the other as "Byron"), while many players are completely new. Since the skill gap between the better and worse players is drastic enough where the match is a total and utter roflstomp, the lesser-skilled players realistically can't get better. I get that you improve by playing against people better than you, but the skill difference is enough where nobody can learn or improve. I'm mentoring one of the newer players (I'll refer to him as "Lang"), who just started playing and decided to main Fox. He's a fast learner and knows somewhat about how the game and his character works. However, since Byron and I often talk out of game about improving tech, in particular wavedashes and SHFFLs, Lang wants to learn these tactics too. I've practiced with him for hours and hours and he just cannot get these two specific things down. He even refuses to play as any other character to aid in learning (I recommended Falco for SHFFL because it's easier to SH with him) and it seems that, at this point, he's completely unteachable. Can somebody give me some pointers as to how to mentor a new player? I would much appreciate the help.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

One of the most efficient ways to improve is to use meaningful metrics (measurements) to judge your progress.

Here are some posts from Scar's blog, "Lean Melee", that fits with this topic:
http://leanmelee.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/lean-as-a-framework-and-small-batch-sizes/
http://leanmelee.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/measuring-success-and-failure/

 

[Chikorita]

In general, what does the skill curve for the game look like, and how does it differ from character to character? I'm curious because ever since I learned how to L-Cancel I haven't really been improving.

 

[Bones0]

Well, this is my first post here, so I hope it doesn't flop. Hey all.

I'm trying to get a group of people I smashfest with to improve at the game at a rapid rate; of the fourteen of us who play only two of us (myself included) are actually decent at the game (I'll refer to the other as "Byron"), while many players are completely new. Since the skill gap between the better and worse players is drastic enough where the match is a total and utter roflstomp, the lesser-skilled players realistically can't get better. I get that you improve by playing against people better than you, but the skill difference is enough where nobody can learn or improve. I'm mentoring one of the newer players (I'll refer to him as "Lang"), who just started playing and decided to main Fox. He's a fast learner and knows somewhat about how the game and his character works. However, since Byron and I often talk out of game about improving tech, in particular wavedashes and SHFFLs, Lang wants to learn these tactics too. I've practiced with him for hours and hours and he just cannot get these two specific things down. He even refuses to play as any other character to aid in learning (I recommended Falco for SHFFL because it's easier to SH with him) and it seems that, at this point, he's completely unteachable. Can somebody give me some pointers as to how to mentor a new player? I would much appreciate the help.

Tell Lang to buy his own GCN so he can practice on his own, and introduce him to the Nairs-per-minute challenge.

In general, what does the skill curve for the game look like, and how does it differ from character to character? I'm curious because ever since I learned how to L-Cancel I haven't really been improving.

You should honestly see tons of improvement when you first start out. If you're not seeing that, you should probably watch more videos of top players and emulate them. You'll see tons of things you don't do, so it's just a matter of implementing them yourself. If you main Jiggs, that might explain why it's hard to tell if you're improving if you already have decent tech skill, especially if you don't have anyone near your skill level.

 

[Chikorita]

Tell Lang to buy his own GCN so he can practice on his own, and introduce him to the Nairs-per-minute challenge.

You should honestly see tons of improvement when you first start out. If you're not seeing that, you should probably watch more videos of top players and emulate them. You'll see tons of things you don't do, so it's just a matter of implementing them yourself. If you main Jiggs, that might explain why it's hard to tell if you're improving if you already have decent tech skill, especially if you don't have anyone near your skill level.

Thanks a bunch! I just sent him a link to the video. I also requested he buy a GCN, but I'm unsure as to whether or not he'll actually get one. I think he will, seeing as he seems pretty committed.

As for the other thing, I main Jiggs but also play Falco, IC, Sheik and Peach regularly. I just don't see much improvement.

 

[Bones0]

Thanks a bunch! I just sent him a link to the video. I also requested he buy a GCN, but I'm unsure as to whether or not he'll actually get one. I think he will, seeing as he seems pretty committed.

As for the other thing, I main Jiggs but also play Falco, IC, Sheik and Peach regularly. I just don't see much improvement.

I would take three of those characters out of the picture. You'll see a lot more improvement (and higher quality improvement at that) just playing 2 characters where you can really focus on your strategy instead of just trying to get good by aimlessly performing techniques.

 

[Chikorita]

I would take three of those characters out of the picture. You'll see a lot more improvement (and higher quality improvement at that) just playing 2 characters where you can really focus on your strategy instead of just trying to get good by aimlessly performing techniques.

In that case, I think I'll stick with IC and Puff.
I do like playing Sheik, though

 

[Socrates]

Alright so I'm not sure how stupid this sounds, but what exactly was the deal with melee being at EVO this year? I can't really seem to find the details of what went down and what actually lead to it being apart of it this year opposed to years prior. Did the competitors have to earn their tournament seeds or was everything open sign-up? I just want to know so I can compete next year if they have it again!

 

[Bones0]

Alright so I'm not sure how stupid this sounds, but what exactly was the deal with melee being at EVO this year? I can't really seem to find the details of what went down and what actually lead to it being apart of it this year opposed to years prior. Did the competitors have to earn their tournament seeds or was everything open sign-up? I just want to know so I can compete next year if they have it again!

1. FaceBook poll
2. Donation drive
3. Cancer gets 4-stocked
4. ???
5. Profit

 

[bearsfan092]

Maybe this should be in the technical questions thread, but what software/plugins/whatever were used to produce the Impulse 2012 stream? Things like the characters flying in before matches and stuff looked really cool

 

[mooki]

What's the consensus when it comes to countering ledge camping? I feel like when I play against someone who stays on the ledge, the only thing I can do is run in and WD back to bait out something like a get up attack. I play Falco usually, and if I try to do something like run in, cancel the run with crouch, and d-smash to poke them off the ledge, I just get hit by the get-up attack.

I feel like there's an easy counter to this and I'm somehow missing it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

This is melee, nothing is "easy".

Remember to keep your back to the edge when you are threatening them. Besides leaving you free to back air (I always recommend more back air), it lets you take the edge from them. For example, if a sheik is shino stalling in front of you, turn around. When she starts the next upb, just wavedash backwards and you will grab the edge before her (earning you a stock!).

Often times someone seems to be ledge camping, but from their point of view you are cutting off their options making it unsafe to move forward. If you back up and allow them space to stand up, most people will. You might say that is giving up space, but always remember that any resource is worthless if you aren't willing to trade it. By moving back, you take as good (or better) real estate while creating an opportunity to exploit your opponent you otherwise wouldn't have.

 

[Bones0]

Just crouch cancel the ledge attack before you input the dsmash (or input it twice to cover both options). Or just run up and shield, and grab them after they ledge attack.

 

[Yobolight]

If wave-dashing wasn't in the game, would Peach be the best character?

 

[Bones0]

If wave-dashing wasn't in the game, would Peach be the best character?

Who said she isn't already?

 

[Puca Readabook]

I don't know if this has already been speculated but...

What if you could short-hop your double-jump?

I know this is stupid because you can't, but I just wanted a few thoughts on the idea.

 

[Bones0]

I don't know if this has already been speculated but...

What if you could short-hop your double-jump?

I know this is stupid because you can't, but I just wanted a few thoughts on the idea.

If you want shortened double jumps, pick Ganon.

In all seriousness, even though more options usually sounds like a good idea, it'd probably be pretty bad in practice. First thing I think about is all the characters that would gain infinite ledgestalls. A huge portion of the cast is only vulnerable for a few frames during ledgedrop regrabs, but with short DJs they would probably get full invul because they could jump sooner after FFing from the ledge.

For recoveries I don't think it'd really have any big effect at all. Most of the time you are off stage you are going to recover with up-B or side-B after DJing so you can just as easily interrupt your DJ with those moves rather than short DJing. I could see it potentially making DJ aerials at ledgehogging opponents less risky, but only a bit because you can just fall further down to DJ to achieve the same effect.

On stage, it would probably be used a lot for jumping above opponents. You would FH above someone, act like you are coming down with an aerial, and then do a quick little DJ over their attack and counterattack much quicker than if you had done a normal DJ. This is going to be heavily dependent on how different the short DJ is from the current ones. A lot of characters already have really short DJs so a shortened one will barely be visible (like Ganon lol).

So overall, I think it would be mostly abused at the ledge and rarely used to actually add mixups in combat because of how little of a difference it would make for most characters. Even with a noticeable difference, it's still not clear if that's healthy for the game. Catching DJs is really good, but it's also plenty difficult already. Adding multiple DJ heights could subtly make it a bit less enticing to swing at opponents, which may mean overall campier gameplay as opponents will be that much more ready to fake each other out with different DJ heights than to just use DJing as a general tool. It'd sort of be comparable to having two different dash distances. It sounds like it'd introduce more options and make the game more skillful, but it might also just result in a lot of important game mechanics devolving into rather unpredictable RPS. It's a really complicated game change so these are just my general predictions on the idea as a whole. Oh, and there's also the logistical issue of inputs. Unless you are going to use something like a light trigger press + X/Y/tap jump to shorten your DJ, you'll need a few frames of "doublejumpsquat" which will obviously affect how viable DJing at all is.

 

[mixa]

I'm trying to find a combo / highlights Melee vid.

it's fairly recent (2012/13)
it's European (99.67% sure, and it's not any of the genovesmash)
has good editing
has this song: The Flashbulb - Black Lawn Finale
links, anyone?


fkkk, I swear I spent half an hour looking for it before making the post. (it's here.)

 

[SSS]

So I'm primarily a Brawl player, and have been getting into Project:M, but I want to give Melee a shot. Any good tips for the switch over?
Also, why can't I c-stick in training mode? Any way to turn that off?
Finally, why aren't Ice Climbers god tier? They still have their grab, don't they?

 

[Bones0]

So I'm primarily a Brawl player, and have been getting into Project:M, but I want to give Melee a shot. Any good tips for the switch over?
Also, why can't I c-stick in training mode? Any way to turn that off?
Finally, why aren't Ice Climbers god tier? They still have their grab, don't they?

Best tips for switching over are to find Melee players nearby to help you learn.

You can't enable C-stick in Training Mode without an Action Replay Max, but you can do the Name Entry Glitch (search around or YouTube for a tutorial) to practice in vs. mode by yourself.

The whole top half of the tier list is god tier in Melee.

 

[SSS]

Best tips for switching over are to find Melee players nearby to help you learn.

You can't enable C-stick in Training Mode without an Action Replay Max, but you can do the Name Entry Glitch (search around or YouTube for a tutorial) to practice in vs. mode by yourself.

The whole top half of the tier list is god tier in Melee.

thanks. that's handy. Looking to play some Jiggs. Do you know any rest combos?

Nevermind I'll just ask the puff boards.

 

[BlackSoL]

What is dash dancing all about? What would its uses be and how would you get better at it?

 

[Bones0]

[insert epic KK post about DDing here]

 

[ManoxMano]

How can I practice on an empty map (i.e just me, no other opponents or CPUs) in VS mode?

 

[Ripple]

use the name entry glitch in fixed camera mode

 

[Ziodyne]

What is dash dancing all about? What would its uses be and how would you get better at it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk09c6iLLdU

 

[pikmin.org]

Is it any less efficient to do a non-dtilt/dsmash move out of a crouch cancel? For example, if a character had a forward smash and down smash that had their hitbox come out on the same frame, would those options take the same amount of time out of a crouch cancel? And to cc-grab, you just shield + manually, correct (as z does a down-tilt)?

EDIT: And also, for that matter, does it take any frames to "un-crouch"? If so, are there any direct ways to CC Jab, CC F-Tilt or CC U-Tilt without just uncrouching and inputting the move? Also, can you jump directly from a crouch with no extra lag frames?

 

[MetaKnight0]

where can i purchase a legitimate GCN controller from Canada/North America without having a huge shipping fee as well?

 

[BrianTheLion]

Could someone enlighten me on the whole Randall thing on YS. I hear people talking about the fact that the cloud comes out of the side of the stage every ___ seconds. Could someone please elaborate....

 

[Kadano]

Could someone enlighten me on the whole Randall thing on YS. I hear people talking about the fact that the cloud comes out of the side of the stage every ___ seconds. Could someone please elaborate....

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...ud-a-lil-guide-by-austinp.79777/#post-1591173

 

[Bones0]

Could someone enlighten me on the whole Randall thing on YS. I hear people talking about the fact that the cloud comes out of the side of the stage every ___ seconds. Could someone please elaborate....

Randall comes out on the left side on even times (X is any value): X:44, X:24, X:04
He comes out on the right side on odd times: X:54, X:34, X:14

Practice checking the middle digit when you recover to get used to identifying which side Randall is on. Once you are used to corresponding left with even 10s digits and right with odd, start looking at the third digit to see where Randall is located. He comes out at 4 and goes back in on 9. Keep in mind he comes out low on the right and high on the left. Protip: "Left" is 4 letters, so it's even. "Right" is 5 letters, so it's odd.

An easy way to practice this outside of Melee is to check the time and mentally picture where Randall would be. It's 7:01 now, so if that was the time on the Melee clock it would mean Randall is on the left side near the bottom left corner of his path because 3 seconds will have passed since he came out of the wall.

 

[BrianTheLion]

Randall comes out on the left side on even times (X is any value): X:44, X:24, X:04
He comes out on the right side on odd times: X:54, X:34, X:14

Practice checking the middle digit when you recover to get used to identifying which side Randall is on. Once you are used to corresponding left with even 10s digits and right with odd, start looking at the third digit to see where Randall is located. He comes out at 4 and goes back in on 9. Keep in mind he comes out low on the right and high on the left. Protip: "Left" is 4 letters, so it's even. "Right" is 5 letters, so it's odd.

An easy way to practice this outside of Melee is to check the time and mentally picture where Randall would be. It's 7:01 now, so if that was the time on the Melee clock it would mean Randall is on the left side near the bottom left corner of his path because 3 seconds will have passed since he came out of the wall.

Awesome! Thanks