Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Gao~]

hiya guys, i used to play a lot back in the day before brawl came out. i just started melee again and im having trouble with my mind games! i rarely have a chance to play a real life person since i could only go to my local scene a few times a week. any idea/tips that can help me practice how to study my opponent? every time i try to analyze a play style, i get too focused avoiding the attacks and keeping myself alive to make any sort of connection and learn to punish. m tech skill is ok but still needs a lot of work; anyway i just hope there's something i can work on next time i go play real people. any input will be greatly appreciated!

 

[Bones0]

hiya guys, i used to play a lot back in the day before brawl came out. i just started melee again and im having trouble with my mind games! i rarely have a chance to play a real life person since i could only go to my local scene a few times a week. any idea/tips that can help me practice how to study my opponent? every time i try to analyze a play style, i get too focused avoiding the attacks and keeping myself alive to make any sort of connection and learn to punish. m tech skill is ok but still needs a lot of work; anyway i just hope there's something i can work on next time i go play real people. any input will be greatly appreciated!

More video studying, less CPU playing. If you must play, then organize your practice for efficiency. Don't try to practice 10 things at once. If you want to practice DDWDing, you have to just sit there and DD and WD in all the possible ways for 5 straight minutes. If you want to practice ledge dashing, grab the ledge in all the different ways and ledgedash until you don't mess up. After you've practiced the techniques that you wanted for that session and are about to get off, spend the last 10-15 minutes trying to incorporate them all together to see how instinctive they have become to your muscle memory. If you did the individual practices right, you should see a similar level of success in your overall practice. This is all just for playing by yourself btw (I highly recommend Name Entry Glitch with Fixed Camera Melee).

If you want to practice with CPUs, use a low level comp that won't interrupt you (I use 4 since they tend to mix up their DI pretty well) and just practice different scenarios. Neutral, comboing, and edgeguarding are the three main areas, but you can practice more specific stuff based on plat use, being on/near the ledge, using certain attacks, etc. As Falco, for example, you will want to practice low % pillar combos, but make sure you also branch out to practice combos without shine and if you find yourself doing a combo that will never work on a human, just abandon it. Other things to avoid are ONLY practicing vs. the fast fallers, never grabbing, and never playing patient. It's way too easy to get lazy and just approach over and over, but when you play a human they'll quickly realize that and you'll get owned. Imagine the CPU throwing out preemptive attacks at different timings or moving towards and away from you in different ways, and then react to that.

Most important thing is to maximize your human playing time. Go into the appropriate regional section and look for groups on FaceBook (there is a pinned thread that keeps track of all of them). It makes me happy to see so many new members trying to improve, so you should play local players who will feel the same and be eager to help you improve a lot faster than you could on your own.

 

[Gao~]

thanks! guess i should go hit the link on youtube .

 

[ant-d]

I need a list of all the major/national tournaments from 2012 until present day. Any know them?

 

[HT F8]

I need a list of all the major/national tournaments from 2012 until present day. Any know them?

Not sure how up-to-date this list is, but it's a starting point I suppose.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_national_tournaments#2012

 

[ant-d]

Not sure how up-to-date this list is, but it's a starting point I suppose.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_national_tournaments#2012

Thanks. This is exactly what I needed.

 

[Bones0]

I need a list of all the major/national tournaments from 2012 until present day. Any know them?

Search for Juggleguy's "Melee 20XX: Year In Review" articles.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Also, in regards to E-102 Gamma's comment, I don't think G&W has been played to his full potential. I know QERB and j00t play him really well, but there is still potential, I believe.

Hence the "in the current metagame" part.

 

[S7GF]

Hence the "in the current metagame" part.

Yeah, I understand.

 

[Puca Readabook]

Ugh... is full-hopping a uair with fox through a platform supposed to be so disgruntling?

 

[j00t]

I played G&W one match at EVO because I was mentally beaten and I just wanted to quit

I don't think that counts as psyching your opponent out

 

[Removed By Request]

So my problem may be kind of unusual, hopefully you guys can help me out...

I got into Melee about 2 years ago. Ever since I started playing, I've been using Up on the Gamecube controller to jump. But I've been running into a wall recently because I've been trying to do "advanced" techniques such as wavedashing, short hopping, etc., which are nearly impossible unless you use X or Y to jump. Like I said, using Up has been a habit for me for almost 6 years now, and it's proven to be a very difficult habit to break. Does anyone have some tips for changing jump buttons... Maybe things to practice or just tips on what's different between Up and X or Y?

 

[Bones0]

So my problem may be kind of unusual, hopefully you guys can help me out...

I've been playing Smash Bros. since about 2007 when Brawl was released. I got into Melee about 2 years ago. Ever since I started playing Brawl, I've been using Up on the Gamecube controller to jump. When I started with Melee, I just continued it as it was a habit at that point. But I've been running into a wall recently because I've been trying to do "advanced" techniques such as wavedashing, short hopping, etc., which are nearly impossible unless you use X or Y to jump. Like I said, using Up has been a habit for me for almost 6 years now, and it's proven to be a very difficult habit to break. Does anyone have some tips for changing jump buttons... Maybe things to practice or just tips on what's different between Up and X or Y?

First off, use Y if you're going to switch to a button. Secondly, you don't have to switch. Lovage plays with the control stick except for WDs I think. Thirdly, you'll just have to practice. The main difference between using the different jump inputs is you can C-stick really easily after tap jumping, but you can control your aerial momentum really easily after jumping with Y. Get good at inputting attacks immediately after jumping with A+direction.

 

[Removed By Request]

First off, use Y if you're going to switch to a button. Secondly, you don't have to switch. Lovage plays with the control stick except for WDs I think. Thirdly, you'll just have to practice. The main difference between using the different jump inputs is you can C-stick really easily after tap jumping, but you can control your aerial momentum really easily after jumping with Y. Get good at inputting attacks immediately after jumping with A+direction.

Thanks for the help! Just out of curiosity, why should I go with Y over X?

 

[Bones0]

Thanks for the help! Just out of curiosity, why should I go with Y over X?

It's closer to B, and if you want to slide your thumb from Y to B or vice versa you can avoid accidentally hitting A. It just makes it that much easier to avoid accidentally doing an aerial when you try to jump and press B as soon as you leave the ground, and if you ever decide to play a spacie then you can shine OoS without accidentally grabbing.

 

[DRGN]

Was debating on posting this here, just cuz I wasn't sure about bumping such an old thread. lol

Maybe I should've though just because these are kinda technical questions, plus I'm not sure exactly sure who checks here, but anyway:


1) What exactly is a sweetspot in terms of the game's internal mechanics? A particular hitbox, but only during certain frames, and only if it's the first hitbox to connect for the move (as long as it's not a multi-hit attack), right? Anything else about these?

2) Is hitlag the same whether you hit the opponent or their shield? What about hit-stun?

3) Is shield grabbing frame data the same for all characters? I came across a mention of 7 frames once, which may be how long it takes for the grab-box to come out.


Feel free to just address one if you don't feel like tackling them all. Would still be useful. Thanks!

 

[Removed By Request]

It's closer to B, and if you want to slide your thumb from Y to B or vice versa you can avoid accidentally hitting A. It just makes it that much easier to avoid accidentally doing an aerial when you try to jump and press B as soon as you leave the ground, and if you ever decide to play a spacie then you can shine OoS without accidentally grabbing.

That's really helpful. Thanks again man.

 

[Bones0]

Was debating on posting this here, just cuz I wasn't sure about bumping such an old thread. lol

Maybe I should've though just because these are kinda technical questions, plus I'm not sure exactly sure who checks here, but anyway:


1) What exactly is a sweetspot in terms of the game's internal mechanics? A particular hitbox, but only during certain frames, and only if it's the first hitbox to connect for the move (as long as it's not a multi-hit attack), right? Anything else about these?

2) Is hitlag the same whether you hit the opponent or their shield? What about hit-stun?

3) Is shield grabbing frame data the same for all characters? I came across a mention of 7 frames once, which may be how long it takes for the grab-box to come out.


Feel free to just address one if you don't feel like tackling them all. Would still be useful. Thanks!

1. Sweetspotting doesn't really exist in any form in the game. It's just used to describe a recovery that is spaced so that you can avoid most attacks at the ledge. It is traditionally referring to vertical spacing, but I think most people would also include horizontal spacing in the term sweetspot these days. For instance, if you up-B with Marth you can go really low, but since his arm is outstretched it doesn't necessarily keep you safe. Marth players usually try to also stay as far from the ledge as possible while still being close enough to grab the ledge.

2. I believe hitlag is based on damage. Electric moves have extra hitlag for the victim but not the user (I think double). Here is a list of hitlag values for most moves (some of those may be off). If you really want to dig into it more, you may want to try this program (I've never tried it myself, but Strong Bad knows what he's doing).

3. Most grabs hit frames 7-8. There are characters with slower grabs like Link, Young Link, and Samus, but I really doubt anyone has a grab faster than 7 frames. You can navigate to each character specific forum and look in the hitbox and frame data thread for the exact frames for that character.

 

[DRGN]

1) I'm sorry, I mean hitbox sweetspots (or conversely, sourspots). Like a tipper from Marth, or that area where Roy's dair actually meteors.

2) Electric type hitboxes do 1.5x hitstun iirc. But I was just wondering if it makes a calculation difference whether what is being hit is the opponent's hurtbox or their shield. I'm starting to believe that it doesn't.

3) Are you referring to standing grabs, or shield grabs? Are they actually exactly the same in every way?

 

[Kadano]

1) I'm sorry, I mean hitbox sweetspots (or conversely, sourspots). Like a tipper from Marth, […]

1. Most attacks have not only one hitbox per frame, but several. Those usually have different attributes. Here are two images I made recently that illustrate this:

All 3 red hitboxes have the same damage and knockback attributes. The tipper hitbox has lower priority than the non-tipper hitboxes. When more than one hitbox collides with a hurtbox on a specific frame, the game determines hit collision by going through a list of hitboxes in Marth’s character file (PlMs). The first hitbox a collision is detected for is used, later entries are not considered. Because the tipper hitbox is at the very end of this list, it will only proc if it’s the only colliding hitbox on a certain frame. Thus, the entire violet area is the sweetspot.



Uptilt has two different sweetspots, the second (3c) coming out on frame 9.
Sorry that these are Marth-specific, but hitboxes always work this way so I hope it helped you a bit.

2. Electric type does 1.5x hitlag on hit. On shields, it makes no difference. Thus, if we take Falco’s shine as an example:
If the attack connects with a hitbox properly: 5 frames of hitlag for Falco, 7 frames for the victim. Hitstun depends on victim’s damage and crouch canceling. At 0% without cc and mashing, it lasts 48 frames.
If the attack connects with a shield: 5 frames of hitlag for Falco, 5 frames shield hitlag for the victim. Shieldstun is 5 frames.

3. Shield grabs are just normal standing grabs, yes.

 

[Bones0]

2. Electric type does 1.5x hitlag on hit. On shields, it makes no difference. Thus, if we take Falco’s shine as an example:
If the attack connects with a hitbox properly: 5 frames of hitlag for Falco, 7 frames for the victim. Hitstun depends on victim’s damage, crouch canceling and button mashing. At 0% without cc and mashing, it lasts 48 frames.
If the attack connects with a shield: 5 frames of hitlag for Falco, 5 frames shield hitlag for the victim. Shieldstun is 5 frames.

If you hard knee someone's shield, they don't have 1.5 times more hitlag than you?

 

[gravy]

I was very seriously under the impression that electric attacks still did 1.5x hitlag on shield and would need some legitimate proof to believe otherwise.

 

[DRGN]

1) Yeah, I know about there being several hitboxes per move typically, and that only one hitbox will register. But that hitbox change is interesting. I didn't know they could change part-way through a move. Though technically, rather than one box having its properties change, I wonder if it's just being replaced by a different box. Anyway, it seems like it's basically how I first queried it: "A particular hitbox, but only during certain frames, and only if it's the first hitbox to connect". That seems to be about it, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. The "only during certain frames" part being for things like Falcon's fair, how it only has a strong hit for some of the frames (anyone know the exact frames for the strong hit, btw?). Kinda in a hurry posting right now, so hopefully I didn't miss something obvious.

2) Heheh, yeah, hitlag is what I meant. Brainfart.

3) Ok, cool. Thanks.

 

[Kadano]

I was very seriously under the impression that electric attacks still did 1.5x hitlag on shield and would need some legitimate proof to believe otherwise.

I'm on my brick phone right now (hence the incorrect apostrophe) so I can't make pictures. I counted the frames repeatedly for a few attacks to make sure my claims are correct. I will make some gifs when I get home.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The duration of hitstun isn't affected by any inputs.

 

[S7GF]

I played G&W one match at EVO because I was mentally beaten and I just wanted to quit

I don't think that counts as psyching your opponent out

You should be playing G&W every set! Come on, j00t, if anyone can show how good G&W can be, it's you and QERB.

Also, is there a list of characters anywhere that can hop from the ledge and ledge cancel aerials off the same ledge?

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

i have more questions about sdi, do people always asdi when they prepare to sdi something or do they only try for a sdi
in most cases does asdi + sdi help get you out of range for a reset or does sdi away in combos get you far enough
im pretty ******** with di so go slow with me lol, i just single sdi away when im in combos and what i dont understand is its uses in different types of moves that send you in different angles, and multihit moves,

also does everyone sdi with the cstick and does that send you further than sdi with the control stick?
or do people prefer to sdi with the control stick

for situations like being above marth, and you sdi the uair, are you only reacting upon being hit or do you also asdi with one stick?

also for sdi, will slide di be necessary for getting out of multihit moves and surviving at higher percents?

i am only starting to take all this info cuz ggs manz, i feel technically proficient but i want outstanding di and i want to know the right way and how to anticipate my trajectory and all that stuff so yea im confused, but ive asked this **** 1000 times here on the boards lol

 

[Kadano]

The duration of hitstun isn't affected by any inputs.

Thank you, I had a reference error that led to a premature conclusion. I corrected the sentence.

I was very seriously under the impression that electric attacks still did 1.5x hitlag on shield and would need some legitimate proof to believe otherwise.

Here is the promised gif:

Hitlag lasts 7 frames for the Falco who got hit, but only 5 frames for the Falco who shielded.

i have more questions about sdi […]
i am only starting to take all this info cuz ggs manz, i feel technically proficient but i want outstanding di and i want to know the right way and how to anticipate my trajectory and all that stuff so yea im confused, but ive asked this **** 1000 times here on the boards lol

Start by reading this: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...-teching-and-crouch-cancelling-updated.60218/
Most/all of your questions are answered there.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

yea ofcourse ive read that probably the first thing you read on smashboards cuz its such a great post, but its hard for me to take more from it now
i understand what is going on in al types of di, i just dont understand peoples mindsets in all the different moves and which way they send you off, so anything to help me wud be ggs for sure
also can someone again tell me the physical motion of slide di and when to do it, also what stick do people use
thanks

 

[Bones0]

Thank you, I had a reference error that led to a premature conclusion. I corrected the sentence.

Here is the promised gif:
Hitlag lasts 7 frames for the Falco who got hit, but only 5 frames for the Falco who shielded.

I didn't even realize shine was considered electric. LOL Thanks for the info.

 

[Invis]

What buttons or sticks are you supposed to use to break out of a grab? Also, Do you just plainly spam them?

 

[Bones0]

What buttons or sticks are you supposed to use to break out of a grab? Also, Do you just plainly spam them?

Google Mew2King's "SSBM Statistics Thread".

 

[azzucips]

Hello peoples,

I don't really live near any super competitive gamers, so I don't get to really get great practice.
Is there any way to learn how to deal with pressure without playing with humans?

 

[Bones0]

Hello peoples,

I don't really live near any super competitive gamers, so I don't get to really get great practice.
Is there any way to learn how to deal with pressure without playing with humans?

Did you check the pinned thread with FaceBook groups or the regional forums? There's no replacement for playing with humans, but I made a post a page or 2 back about how you can practice on your own in between human practice.

 

[azzucips]

I recently went to a tournament in Oak Park and got whooped pretty badly haha. So I guess I'll just have to keep going over there and getting whooped to learn I suppose?

 

[Xyzz]

Best way to learn, indeed.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I recently went to a tournament in Oak Park and got whooped pretty badly haha. So I guess I'll just have to keep going over there and getting whooped to learn I suppose?

Haha who were you playing with? You're not very far from me it seems

 

[azzucips]

Haha who were you playing with? You're not very far from me it seems

The best guy that whooped me was Kels in the second round of the P:M tourney >_<

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Oh you were at Wavedash Weds. Yeah Kels is the best Melee player in the Midwest. If you're learning things, keep going and learning. Thats the only way to get better.

 

[azzucips]

Oh you were at Wavedash Weds. Yeah Kels is the best Melee player in the Midwest. If you're learning things, keep going and learning. Thats the only way to get better.

Nah I went to World War M, but I'm probably going to WW tomorrow