Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[iRobinhoood]

So I have 25 frames after a down or away input of invincibility?

I'm assuming ledge grabbing lag is already factored into ledge invincibility? 35 - 8 = 25 free frames of invincibility after letting go of the edge? Now this is only possible if I even ledgedrop/let go on frame 9 after grabbing the edge. So a frame perfect ledge drop yields 25 frames of invincibility given I'm frame perfect, and diminishes from there.

Correct me please. I'm sure I'm wrong.

 

[Gea]

Read what Bones said/amended to his post

So you get 37 frames of invincibility, but can't let go until 29, giving you 28 frames to do whatever you want.

So you drop on frame 29 if you are perfect and have the remaining 28 frames to actually get on stage or do an aerial. This gives most characters time to waveland onstage with invincibility but not do much else after the waveland starts. Or you can do invincible aerials, as are common edgeguards.

 

[Bones0]

So I have 25 frames after a down or away input of invincibility?

I'm assuming ledge grabbing lag is already factored into ledge invincibility? 35 - 8 = 25 free frames of invincibility after letting go of the edge? Now this is only possible if I even ledgedrop/let go on frame 9 after grabbing the edge. So a frame perfect ledge drop yields 25 frames of invincibility given I'm frame perfect, and diminishes from there.

Correct me please. I'm sure I'm wrong.

You got most of it right... except all the frame data... lol

- You have 37 frames of invincibility.
- 8 are spent in ledgegrab lag. You can't do anything.
- 1 frame is spent letting go of the ledge (not applicable for standard ledge options).
- 37-8-1 = 28 frames
- You get 28 frames of actionable invincibility if you let go on frame 9. Letting go 1 frame later yields 27 frames of invinc to work with, 2 frames late yields 26 frames, etc.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Can't see why I put 35 frames in my maths lol oops. Thanks guys I get it now. Now to see what I can do with this stuff.

 

[iRobinhoood]

When I wavedash off a platform why do I tumble sometimes? Can I aerial immediately out of the tumble? Can the same idea be applied for lightshielding near the edge of a platform?

 

[gravy]

The reason you are tumbling is because you are still holding the shield button when you slide off. It's best to focus on making your button presses quick so that it's already released by the time you fall off. The same goes for lightshielding near a edge, if you get pushed off while still holding the shield button you will go into tumble. I believe that you can aerial out of it immediately, but it would probably be better to wiggle out so that you unlock the option of wavelanding.

 

[FishSlappinDance]

I know this question has nothing to do with competitive Melee but I figured to ask here rather than make a thread so here goes:

Aside from the fact that Fire Emblem had no stage in Melee, what was the reasoning behind making the Fountain of Dreams Marth's home stage (when unlocking and in All-Star)?

 

[john!]

aside from making his SHFFL aerials difficult, fountain of dreams is also the best stage for his toughest matchup (sheik). the melee developers wanted to reward players who were able to successfully counterpick marth with the right character.

 

[Bones0]

When I wavedash off a platform why do I tumble sometimes? Can I aerial immediately out of the tumble? Can the same idea be applied for lightshielding near the edge of a platform?

The reason you are tumbling is because you are still holding the shield button when you slide off. It's best to focus on making your button presses quick so that it's already released by the time you fall off. The same goes for lightshielding near a edge, if you get pushed off while still holding the shield button you will go into tumble. I believe that you can aerial out of it immediately, but it would probably be better to wiggle out so that you unlock the option of wavelanding.

A lot of that is just wrong, and there's also a lot of other factors that come into play.

If you are shielding on a platform and you slide off with your back to the edge, you fall over. Fox and other FFers often start going into this tumble animation, but they actually end up landing before they flip 180 degrees. If you don't go completely upsidedown, you won't have to tech. It just cancels. This is why falling over is much more common with floaties, but it can still happen with FFers if you were on a high platform. It won't happen at all if you slide off while facing the edge. Those are the situations where players often get slide offs from an opponents attack and immediately counter attack immediately with bair. You can test both situations by simply WDing on a platform and keeping the trigger pressed in. You'll see your shield pop up briefly before your momentum carries you off and sends you either into tumble (if your back was to the edge) or free fall (if you were facing the edge).

 

[gravy]

Do button presses help you break out of grabs or is it just the controller stick movement?

 

[E-102 Gamma]

I'm almost certain they do.

 

[Xyzz]

A button press is equivalent to a quater circle stick rotation iirc.
In any case they definitely affect mashing out. If I want to be sure I catch the right DI I'll just mash x, y and a simultaneously with my thumb while already inputting my DI. If the expected throw is slow enough for me to put in DI on reaction I'll rotate the stick as well.

 

[Bones0]

Do button presses help you break out of grabs or is it just the controller stick movement?

Previous page...

Read Mew2King's "SSBM Statistics List" thread. Quick answer though, yes, stick inputs count (it is the 4 cardinal directions iirc).

Button presses and moving your stick to top, down, left, or right all reduce the length of time you are held by a certain number of frames. It's all in M2K's thread referenced above.

 

[oukd]

this is kind of a goofy question but ill post it here anyways.

a friend of mine who was with me at apex watched my matches and told me that i play extremely differently in tourney as compared to in friendlies. even though i disagreed at the time, i slowly realized how much my thought process changed for the specific matches I played. coincidentally i became anxious as my pool wave was called, and actually had to go outside for a few minutes and breathe so as to not have a panic attack. im not the type to have a panic attack at all whatsoever, so this is very odd to me.

the real question is, how do you guys keep yourself from playing differently under pressure? it's been about 3 years since i got into smash, and about 2 years since my 1st tournament. the problem where my anxiety seemingly shows up at random has not changed at all, regardless of tournament size or importance, and i've only been able to eliminate it effectively once or twice. there are some nationals/regionals where i play at the top of my game while others i just stumble - same with small locals. frankly i just want to be able to enter tournament matches the same way i enter my friendlies with people i havent played before.

(and if relevant, i did horribly and felt like i underperformed at apex. but <obligatory johns johns johns etc.> and that's not really the issue at hand.)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can't. You will always play differently under pressure. It affects people differently, and everyone has to figure out how to handle it on their own.

Experienced players are ones that understand exactly how their body reacts to pressure emotionally/chemically and know how to use it to their advantage. One thing that generally happens is an increase of adrenaline which has two types of effects. One is shaky hands type of effects and the other is increased focus/reaction time. Adrenaline also makes it much harder to think straight.

Short answer, it comes with experience.

 

[Xyzz]

Most people are kinda nervous. Just try to stay calm and remember that you've practiced well, so you'll do well!
If you find yourself panicking, take a few deep breaths between the matches (or even just camp out that angel platform after respawning).

Personally I actually play better during tourney sets, because it's the only time I'll actually pay attention to how my opponent reacts to things and think before just jumping in :D
Dunno, and I kinda go into my matches thinking "I'll just do my best, let's see if it's enough", maybe that'll help as well.

 

[oukd]

@Sveet, i like this answer. thanks ive happened to start taking steps in counteracting negative aspects of tournament anxiety.

@xyzz, yeah this is usually the approach i have as well, but sometimes it doesn't help lol. sometimes im just randomly super-anxious and i cant stop it.


i suppose ill have to swallow my words and accept that going into matches with a good mindset is very important to doing well as opposed to simply knowing enough theory or having mechanical consistency.

 

[Bones0]

Stress/anxiety always makes people perform worse when they have a certain level of incompetence (messing up tech skill being the thing that probably comes to mind for a lot of people), but as you get better adrenaline and those sorts of things are supposed to boost performance.

Wikipedia

 

[gravy]

I'm confused about the difference between shai dropping and shield dropping. Are the mechanics the same, with shai dropping just being a running shield drop?

 

[Bones0]

Shai droppping doesn't include any shield tilting because the drop through is buffered. You can buffer shield drops in other situations so that you will only shield for one frame and drop through on the next, but Shai dropping is the most common. I also just thought it was worth differentiating since a lot of people know how to Shai drop, but not shield drop from a standing position. It's comparable to the whole rectangle/square definition thing. A Shai drop is a shield drop, but a shield drop isn't necessarily a Shai drop. That's all. The mechanics are identical in terms of needing to be at 45 degrees to drop through.

 

[iRobinhoood]

I just noticed now that when I L-cancel sometimes I hold the button all the way down. What are some negative aspects of doing it this way?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can miss your tech if you happen to be hit out of your attack. Also, you say "hold" but I assume u meant "press". If you hold, obviously you more than likely will just shield which isn't productive in most cases

 

[iRobinhoood]

Yes I did mean press*

 

[gravy]

Awesome. Can you buffer shield drops while your shield is being hit?

 

[Bones0]

Awesome. Can you buffer shield drops while your shield is being hit?

Yes, but I have no good way of testing how many frames of buffering they have. All I know from the naked eye is that it DOES buffer, but it isn't an infinite buffer like C-sticking rolls where you can hold it for as many frames as possible before the buffer goes through. My theory is buffering shield drops works similarly to how you can buffer your FF for up to 3 frames before you reach the peak of your jump.

 

[iRobinhoood]

^ This game keeps getting more technical I swear.

 

[The Star King]

Buffering makes it less technical lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Depends on your definition of the word. If you think technical means strictly harder, than yes. I think of technical in terms of depth on a command based level. Option selects are "technical" even though they are "easier" than inputting each different thing separately

 

[JPenJr71121]

I have just a general question that encompasses both melee and brawl. Not sure where to ask, so I'll ask here. My friend plays all of th smash games and is good at them. If his mind worked like most of you experienced players on SWF I could probably beat him. The problem is, it doesn't. he knows zreo ATs and has a list of things that would make many cringe and say "haha ur a n00b." He just plays on instinct. he does not even have any habits that I can find. It is just so weird to play against him and I cannt find a way to deal with it.

Any help?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Maybe its your habits that you need to eliminate. Start by playing the player, not the character. You already know how to do the latter.

 

[Gea]

Pretty much pulling yourself back and punishing bad habits is how to stop that. Over-committing allows him to do weird stuff. Be patient, read things like rolls. Everyone has habits.

 

[JPenJr71121]

Thanks. He will be at my place today. I came up with some new ideas yesterday, so I will just wait and see. :-) A little while ago I decided to play less Sheik simply because I was WAY over committing to stuff. My strategies got very predictable. I have been playing mostly Falco with a little blit of Sheik for a couple of matchups, and my fall back Link when all else fails. Switching characters is helping me realize what I'm doing wrong, It provided a new perspective.

 

[KayB]

When I try to WD, at the end of my WD my character puts up his shield even if I let go of the LR buttons before hand. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[iRobinhoood]

Are you holding onto Z accidentally after the wavedash? Is your shield a light shield at the end of your wavedash? It sounds like you may not be letting go of the L/R button fully after the wavedash caushing you to buffer lightshield.

 

[KayB]

So I have to let it go even faster? Jesus christ, ugh.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Which character are you using? I'm pretty sure it's a 10 frame window for all wavedashes iirc. So you have 1/6 of a second to complete the motion. You'll pick it up soon enough.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You are holding the shield. If you are certain it isn't your finger (it happens to all of us sometimes) it could be a problem with your controller.

 

[KayB]

Maybe. It might be my controller. I use a variety of characters, but I've been mainly practicing WD with Luigi for obvious reasons.

 

[Bones0]

Maybe. It might be my controller. I use a variety of characters, but I've been mainly practicing WD with Luigi for obvious reasons.

Try using your other trigger to see if it's the controller sticking. Another alternative is to trigger trick your controller (which just means you take out the spring so the trigger sits low and all you do is click it). I would highly recommend any new player trigger trick one of their triggers for powershielding, airdodging, and teching, and then use the other for L-canceling and lightshielding.

 

[Greenpoe]

Is there a list of advanced techniques that apply to every character? Just stuff like wavedashing, crouch canceling, L-canceling - what else is there in terms of advanced techniques? I've got those down pretty well, but want to learn more!