Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Pigs]

Thanks for digging those up, Bones. I was wondering about Sheik's jab resets earlier today.

Also, what is Edge Canceling? I couldn't really find a straight forward answer.

 

[gravy]

Edgecancelling is landing an aerial on the very edge of a platform or the stage and then falling off to cancel the lag completely.

When I wavedash or waveland forward to fall off a platform, why do I just stop at the ledge if my control stick isn't holding forwards? Why doesn't this happen when I wavedash backwards?

 

[Gea]

I'll guess the teetering animation has something to do with it, but I could be wrong.

 

[john!]

yeah the game has your character stop when their momentum makes them slide to the ledge, so you don't fall off and kill yourself or anything

because it's possible to run forward and trigger it without wavedashing, but you can't really do it backwards without wavedashing

just a game design decision to make it less frustrating i guess

 

[V]

I need some advice on which character is right for me. I've been playing Marth for a long time but I'd like to play a character with aerial kill moves and teams well with Fox and Peach in doubles. Here's my criteria for what I'm looking for:

Capable of having multiple playstyles but is best at punishing
Has bread and butter combos but also can improvise well
Smooth ground movement
Can be very flashy for hard reads
Good OoS options
Great edgeguarding (whether from the stage or on the ledge)
Aerial kill moves
Good support or carry in doubles
Good grab setups
Can play well on all stages
Capable of winning tournaments

The more characters that fit these descriptions the better

 

[Bones0]

Captain Falcon

His play style probably isn't the most flexible and his OoS options aren't spectacular, but everything else screamed Falcon to me.

 

[V]

Blah I was kinda hoping Falcon wasn't mentioned. Personally he gets a little too stale for my taste. I was honestly thinking more along the lines of Sheik, Fox, or Falco. I like Dr Mario a lot too for whatever reason but I'm not sure how he fits those descriptions.

 

[Varist]

>Falcon
>Stale

you must not be playing him right holy **** what the **** are you doing techchasing every stock and being a little jab **** falcon is the god damn balls nasty in the beehouse

 

[V]

Umm I'm not a Falcon main so maybe that's why I get bored with him...

 

[gravy]

You should watch more Hax. The better you get with Falcon, the more viciously satisfying it is to play him. He instills the fear.
Edit: However, if you don't love your character, you're not going to excel with him. Pick the character that you love to play.

 

[The Star King]

If you know what answers you were hoping for then why ask

OK, I'll answer. I'd say Sheik, Fox, or Falco. Maybe Doctor Mario.

 

[DRGN]

I'm looking for an old article; I tried both looking manually and the search function (which doesn't seem to be returning anything atm).

It was about how the side-Bs for Marth and Roy sometimes allow them better horizontal recovery, and other times don't (and they just drop while using it in the air), and how it works. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

 

[oukd]

1st side B after gives you a little horizontal boost, the others don't do much

also i think sometimes the 1st side B doesn't boost, but i don't quite remember. i think it's if you use your side B boost and land, then run off a ledge into side B...not too sure though. it's in the marth discussion boards somewhere

 

[Bones0]

I'm looking for an old article; I tried both looking manually and the search function (which doesn't seem to be returning anything atm).

It was about how the side-Bs for Marth and Roy sometimes allow them better horizontal recovery, and other times don't (and they just drop while using it in the air), and how it works. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Your first side-B makes you go a lot higher. I believe subsequent side-Bs without landing still help a little, but it's not nearly as much. If you jump and side-B immediately after, you will actually sink downwards really quickly. If you use a side-B in the air and land in the middle of an aerial animation, you will NOT regain your good side-B. Go to FD, and follow these steps:
1. Jump, side-B in the air, and do any aerial as you land (it doesn't matter if you L-cancel or not).
2. Jump, side-B in the air again. You will notice you don't gain height like usually.
3. Repeat step 1 multiple times, landing with an aerial each time.
4. Repeat step 2. You will see that even after jumping and landing multiple times, you will not regain your side-B as long as you continue to land with an aerial.
5. Repeat step 1, then after landing, do an empty hop. Jump and side-B again, and you will notice you have regained your good side-B. Leaving the ground and landing without an aerial will refresh your good side-B. You can empty hop, wavedash, waveland, run off a plat and land on the ground, etc. I think if you grab the ledge and do a regular getup option it won't refresh it, but I'm not sure. You can easily test that, and other scenarios, on your own though.

 

[Ziodyne]

I need some advice on which character is right for me. I've been playing Marth for a long time but I'd like to play a character with aerial kill moves and teams well with Fox and Peach in doubles. Here's my criteria for what I'm looking for:

Capable of having multiple playstyles but is best at punishing
Has bread and butter combos but also can improvise well
Smooth ground movement
Can be very flashy for hard reads
Good OoS options
Great edgeguarding (whether from the stage or on the ledge)
Aerial kill moves
Good support or carry in doubles
Good grab setups
Can play well on all stages
Capable of winning tournaments

The more characters that fit these descriptions the better

metaknight

play fox

 

[DRGN]

Your first side-B makes you go a lot higher. I believe subsequent side-Bs without landing still help a little, but it's not nearly as much. If you jump and side-B immediately after, you will actually sink downwards really quickly. If you use a side-B in the air and land in the middle of an aerial animation, you will NOT regain your good side-B. Go to FD, and follow these steps:
1. Jump, side-B in the air, and do any aerial as you land (it doesn't matter if you L-cancel or not).
2. Jump, side-B in the air again. You will notice you don't gain height like usually.
3. Repeat step 1 multiple times, landing with an aerial each time.
4. Repeat step 2. You will see that even after jumping and landing multiple times, you will not regain your side-B as long as you continue to land with an aerial.
5. Repeat step 1, then after landing, do an empty hop. Jump and side-B again, and you will notice you have regained your good side-B. Leaving the ground and landing without an aerial will refresh your good side-B. You can empty hop, wavedash, waveland, run off a plat and land on the ground, etc. I think if you grab the ledge and do a regular getup option it won't refresh it, but I'm not sure. You can easily test that, and other scenarios, on your own though.

Great. Thanks.

 

[V]

If you know what answers you were hoping for then why ask

OK, I'll answer. I'd say Sheik, Fox, or Falco. Maybe Doctor Mario.

I wanted to see if people were thinking the same characters I was.

 

[gravy]

Are there any tricks or things to keep in mind to make shield dropping easier? I know that it's easier if you don't go all the way to the brim, but the difficulty for me is that if I don't get the shield drop, I end up spotdodging when I try to fast fall, and I never want that. Maybe I should try to go halfway to the brim at a certain angle and then make a tiny quarter or eighth circle to increase the chances of hitting it? All in all, this is proving to be a very difficult thing to learn.

 

[Gea]

I once read someone's advice that was "practice by crouching on platforms without falling through."

 

[gravy]

That's another thing I actually don't understand. I don't get how I crouch when I'm trying to fall through. I've replicated it by putting myself in landing lag in falling through, but sometimes I'm just on the platform and try to fall through and can't. I'll crouch like 4 times. It doesn't make any sense to me. Edit; if they are related somehow though, that'd be a great way to practice it. I should be able to CC on platforms anyways.

 

[Gea]

Someone will likely tell me I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's akin to doing a tilt vs a smash. Ever try doing a dtilt then a dsmash? You have to be a bit more deliberate with your timing or you'll get two tilts in a row because you never returned the stick to neutral. All I can really tell you is practice crouching on platforms and you should get a feel for it. You may be having issues with it because I'm pretty sure you can buffer the crouch out of lag, but you cannot buffer the fallthrough, tested.

The crouching on platforms things to practice was a suggestion of the kind of movement you need to make to shielddrop when going from forward to downwards (which is why you're getting spotdodges instead of the drop, you're doing the motion too hard/quickly).

 

[gravy]

I'm torn because I want to be able to shield drop as fast as I can, but I realize that the motion itself takes finesse. But if I'm trying to shield drop out of shield pressure from a spacie or something, I need to be able to do it immediately :/

 

[Gea]

That's where practice comes in, and likely why we don't see the technique used as much. My advice to you is since we don't have a record -> replay option for the CPU in training mode, get a training buddy. Explain you and him are both going to learn shielddropping and practice it until it's just natural.

Training buddies are really helpful for learning powershield -> grab on Falco as well.

 

[gravy]

Yah, I guess I'm just going to keep grinding it out. I've been practicing for quite a while now, but I want to do this badly enough that I know it's worth it. Edit; It turns out that crouching on a platform and shield dropping legitimately are like the same motion. This is definitely what I needed to be able to figure this out. Shoutouts to Gea for being the best. Edit#2; Shortly after finding this out, I shield dropped 22 times in a row. My old record was 5. So happy.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Just FYI, the landing animation, which occurs whenever you land out of a normal fall, is interruptable by anything EXCEPT falling through a platform. You can run/shield/attack/jump/walk/crouch etc, but you can't fall through the platform during the animation. Depends on the character, but it's usually in the 30 frame range, or half a second. That's why that doesn't work. Fortunately, walking forward and dropping or shield dropping work, as the interrupt the landing and allow a drop. Just practice either of those.

 

[PCwizCube]

I have a question on performing the Wavedash out of Shield.

When you go from shielding into wavedash, are you supposed to end the shielding by jumping? For the way I do it now, I do something different - my button inputs are:
1) shield with R
2) release R
3) x button for jump
4) R + control stick direction (down-right or down-left).

I'm hypothesizing that you're supposed to switch steps 2 and 3. Is that the correct way to do it? If it is, that's much harder haha... I guess I should try shielding with the L button instead then.

 

[iRobinhoood]

The point is to abuse the fact that shield is jump cancelable and to avoid the 17 frame(?) lag associated with dropping your shield by letting go.

You're hypothesis is somewhat correct but gives a smaller window to perform a perfect WD oos. I would recommend the use of two buttons as your just picking it up.

 

[PCwizCube]

The point is to abuse the fact that shield is jump cancelable and to avoid the 17 frame(?) lag associated with dropping your shield by letting go.

You're hypothesis is somewhat correct but gives a smaller window to perform a perfect WD oos. I would recommend the use of two buttons as your just picking it up.

I looked it up, it's 16 frames for my main (Marth). But wow, that's a lot of lag, compared to the regular 4-6 frames lag for a jump cancel?

Now I understand how people in videos WD OoS so quickly. I'll try using both R and L now - thanks for the help.

 

[Bones0]

WD OoS only gives Marth 1 frame of advantage over simply unshielding. The main benefit of the WD OoS is that you can move more quickly during the 15 frames of jumpsquat + airdodge landing lag. I frequently WD OoS just fine with just the L-trigger, and the thing to keep in mind is that airdodging is done by clicking the trigger with a full press. If you are light shielding, you can simply keep L/R held while you jump OoS, and then push the trigger further down to airdodge. It is virtually equivalent to a regular WD when you're not shielding, but your trigger finger starts slightly depressed instead of completely off the trigger.

However, since full shielding is usually the preferred shield mid-game, you shouldn't just try to light shield everything (it'd be harder anyway). Instead, you just need to learn to raise your trigger finger slightly so that you are no longer holding down the button part, and then repress it after you jump OoS. So a simple breakdown of how you would do it is:
1. Hold shield (fully pressed).
2. Jump
3. Release the trigger just enough to unclick.
4. Repress the trigger so that it clicks.

This method is pretty difficult if you haven't been WDing for a long time, but even with the fastest jumpers in the game (Fox, Samus, Sheik, etc. who are all just 1 frame faster than Marth fyi) it is possible to do consistently. You really just need to focus on doing steps 3 and 4 during jumpsquat. Marth has 4 frames of jumpsquat, so you have about that many frames in which to unclick and click the trigger.

Another alternative is to use a separate trigger for shielding and WDing. I use the single trigger method when I shield normally, but when I decided to learn to PS projectiles and incorporate shield stopping into my game, I trigger tricked my R button and used that trigger instead. I still use L for the majority of my shielding, but because I WD with L, I am able to PS/shield stop and WD out VERY quickly, and VERY easily. I could probably do it very well with a single trigger, but I'd inevitably have to focus a little more to make sure I'm releasing the trigger at the right time and repressing it fast enough to get a good WD. I also enjoy the benefit of being able to easily L-cancel with L after shai dropping through platforms with R.

Hopefully that answers more questions that it raises. lol If you shield with R, I would just highly recommend trigger tricking your L-button now (unless you L-cancel with it) for PSing, and then you can simultaneously practice shield stopping/PSing as well as WDing OoS. You don't have to actually even be PSing at first. Just go to FD in Training Mode and dash into shield (with L), then WD out (with R). Then you can do the same to practice only using R for whenever you find yourself shielding regularly. Also, the reason I wouldn't advise trigger tricking the trigger you L-cancel with is because you will waste a tech attempt every time you L-cancel. If you haven't already, learn to L-cancel with a light trigger press so that if you get hit out of your SHFFL you can still tech. If you hard-press a trigger to L-cancel and get hit right after, you won't be able to tech (there is a 40 frame window allowed between tech attempts to prevent mashing for techs).

 

[pokemongeof]

Quick question.

How do I immediatley use the light shield. When i have to use it, i have to grab.

Is there a way to go straight to a light shield?

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Quick question.

How do I immediatley use the light shield. When i have to use it, i have to grab.

Is there a way to go straight to a light shield?

Press L or R very lightly.

 

[SaggyG]

I have a question. What version of melee is considered the official for tournaments? I just found out I have a 1.0 and it makes sense considering I couldn't DI out of flurries.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

No official stance has been made. The deal is, 1.2 is more common than 1.0. Some players carry a 1.0 disc around so that they can use it in tournament, since it does give some buffs to a few low tiers. The only time i saw it come up (though im sure it has before) was in the FC10 thread. They ruled that if both players couldnt agree, 1.2 would be played since it was most common.

 

[Bones0]

I have a question. What version of melee is considered the official for tournaments? I just found out I have a 1.0 and it makes sense considering I couldn't DI out of flurries.

There is no official version (which is quite the oversight in our ruleset, honestly). 1.2 is definitely the most common. That being said, I doubt what you're experiencing is due to version differences. It doesn't make it impossible to DI, and it doesn't affect all flurry-like moves. It simply makes it impossible to SDI moves that do < 1%. I'm pretty sure none of the top 10 most popular characters have any moves like this. The only moves I can think of that have < 1% hits are Zelda's fsmash, Zelda's usmash, and Pikachu's dsmash (not sure about this one though).

 

[standardtoaster]

I think link and young link's rapid have jab under that too

 

[danaplz]

Samus upb?

 

[SaggyG]

so is it safe to be practicing on a 1.0?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yes SaggyG. Unless you are playing link or yl and are making exceptional usage of the boomerang glitch(es). Even then, you can likely just bring your disc to tournaments and swap it out for your matches if you're so inclined.

 

[Jayk]

I've seen Peach's umbrella definitely do less than one perent before, too.

 

[Swampler]

The other night I was beating up on a CP Fox as Falco and found something I hadn't seen before. When standing next to Fox on a platform, I would drop through and bair instantly, causing me to stay on the platform.

What is the term for this and does it have any value in matches?