Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[gravy]

I thought you could still ledge cancel a tech roll if you rolled toward the ledge.

 

[Ripple]

certain character fall off because if their animation. example is namely fox and falco do so when on their back and then roll toward an edge will always fall off

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Neither Fox nor Falco slide off the stage when they tech roll towards the edge. From what I can tell, only the stand in place animation can be edge canceled. You can only fall off the stage after the end of the roll if you have positive momentum after the animation finishes.

 

[Ripple]

I didn't say tech roll.

just normal roll on their back after a missed tech

even though now I realize it was kinda irrelevant

 

[gravy]

If you want to shield drop and then fast fall, do you have to shield drop and then move the control stick back to neutral, and then fast fall? Or can you just move to the shield drop spot and then go down?

 

[Bones0]

If you want to shield drop and then fast fall, do you have to shield drop and then move the control stick back to neutral, and then fast fall? Or can you just move to the shield drop spot and then go down?

Idk if you forgot, but I already answered this. lol Maybe you never saw it, but if you just didn't find my answer sufficient, I'm afraid your out of luck because there's only a handful of people who actually use shield dropping enough to confidently answer a question like this about it.

Spoiler

No. The FF input only requires a downward tilt on the stick, and as far as I can tell it's either the same or even less distance from neutral than a shield drop (I'd guess less). I don't think anyone knows exactly how shield drops work in terms of how far down you need to press. I can do straight down, but I do them diagonally because it's easier and more reliable. I KNOW for a fact that if you are shai dropping out of a dash and have the stick pressed all the way to the rim that you have to be EXACTLY at 45 below horizontal. Being at 44 or 46 will not cause you to drop through (I have tested them by pausing and holding shield + the angle and then unpausing).

That being said, I don't know what determines the drop if you are moving your stick at an angle further below horizontal without pushing your stick to the rim (like you would for a dtilt or LAftilt; I do standing drops with the LAftilt-type press, trying to go at exactly 45). My theory is that there is a line drawn from the left 45 to the right, and in order to shield drop at any non-full press you need to be directly on that border for at least one frame. That would explain why tilting the stick at 45s is easier than tilting straight down. It essentially slows down your change on the Y-axis, meaning you'll spend more time at each individual height (assuming the speed of the stick movement is the same, which it will be since you should ideally be moving as slow as possible anyway). I can't know any of this for sure because I don't have any way of measuring how far I am pushing my stick other than by my instinctive feeling. If I could test to see how many units down you have to move the stick and compare that to how many units a full press to the rim is, I could figure it out with the Pythagorean theorem (down being a leg, and the full press @45 being the hypotenuse). If I got all this, then I could compare that to the units a stick must move in order to register as a FF input.

It probably wouldn't matter much in the end. You'll just have to get accustomed to how much you have to release the stick before pushing back down for the FF. It didn't feel like I had to full release when I did it, but attempting to keep the stick as low as possible during the shield drop in FF in Training Mode on 1/4th speed would make it a lot easier to tell.

 

[gravy]

Yah I missed that, but it's a great answer, thanks bones!

 

[iRobinhoood]

Can you wiggle out of a tumble/stun with the c-stick?

 

[Ripple]

no, you'll throw an aerial

 

[iRobinhoood]

Immediately after the stun the aerial will come out? Basically, you can aerial during any part of a tumble correct?

Can I use the c-stick to lessen the stun from an attack? Let's say a Falcon stomp for example purposes.

 

[Ripple]

Immediately after the stun the aerial will come out? Basically, you can aerial during any part of a tumble correct?

Can I use the c-stick to lessen the stun from an attack? Let's say a Falcon stomp for example purposes.

yes to the first.

as to the second, technically no but essentially yes if you SDI really hard. the opposite way you're going to get hit. you suffer the same amount of stun but you won't go as far.

unless you want to crouch cancel, but you'll have to ask sveet or strong bad about the mechanics of crouch cancelling with the c-stick, if it makes any difference

 

[iRobinhoood]

I remember seeing in a video IIRC that you can alter the amount of time your stunned by use of the control stick. I don't remember the video or when I saw it but I think they also used Falcon stomp as an example.

I figured the same effect could be applied to the c-stick so you could regular DI with the control stick after being hit and lessen your stun by using the c-stick(my hypothesis). This would be so you wouldn't have to change your control stick DI.

 

[Gea]

You aren't talking about tapping out of a tumble, are you? Cuz I'm pretty sure your actual stuntime is the same no matter what, but you can get out of a tumble (where you could attack/jump to also get out of it) by tapping left/right on the control stick. Very useful to do if you want to land without having to tech or airdodge without attacking/jumping first.

To be super clear, your stun cannot be canceled by anything, but afterwards you go into a tumble. This tumble can be canceled by a jump/attack or tapping out of it, putting you back into a neutral falling state. This is why hitting the C-stick during a tumble will throw out an aerial. If you are asking whether an aerial can be buffered with the c-stick during actual hitstun, that is a good question.

 

[Lovage]

I remember seeing in a video IIRC that you can alter the amount of time your stunned by use of the control stick.

MYTH BUSTED

the only thing wiggling out of tumble practically does, is allow you to have the option of airdodging opened up to you

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lovage is correct. Wiggling doesn't shorten your hitstun, it simply takes your character out of tumble animation. By leaving tumble, you gain more control over your character's DI and have the ability to airdodge without using your jump or an attack first.

 

[Lovage]

By leaving tumble, you gain more control over your character's DI

BUSTED AGAIN

it does nothing to your air momentum (besides make it slightly worse because you had to let go of your DI in order to wiggle.) the only reason you ever want to do it for a non-peach character is if you want to have the option of air dodging if you need it.

 

[john!]

also if you want to land without teching

 

[Gea]

Which is what I said even pre-lovage. No respect.

 

[Lovage]

sorry bro i didn't read your post

plus everyone knows purple name means people listen to you

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

BUSTED AGAIN

it does nothing to your air momentum (besides make it slightly worse because you had to let go of your DI in order to wiggle.) the only reason you ever want to do it for a non-peach character is if you want to have the option of air dodging if you need it.

Are you sure? I know the difference isn't much, but I think you do gain in control and/or total distance (depending on your character)

 

[Bones0]

Damn, Lovage is busting all over this thread.

the only reason you ever want to do it for a non-peach character is if you want to have the option of air dodging if you need it.

MYTH BUSTED

Wiggling out also alters your hurtbox because your limbs are no longer flailing around asking to be hit from absurd distances.

 

[Construct]

Quick dumb question: What inputs count for a mash-out? Does rotating the sticks real fast work?

 

[Bones0]

Read Mew2King's "SSBM Statistics List" thread. Quick answer though, yes, stick inputs count (it is the 4 cardinal directions iirc).

 

[Lovage]

Are you sure? I know the difference isn't much, but I think you do gain in control and/or total distance (depending on your character)

show me a vid, don't buy it all

 

[Gea]

Sveet, I think you're wrong as well. Tapping out is ever so slightly detrimental to your horizontal distance ontop of that. Should be pretty easy to test, though. Just do an aerial asap out of tumble for one test and nothing for the tumble. In fact I will test it right now.

Yup, makes 0 difference. Tried on stadium with motion sensor bombs in training mode. Take a semi-floaty (I used Doc) and damage him (two motion sensor bombs = 56%), stand at easy to see point on stage and throw down to ensure same placement every time. Back up and run into it holding the direction straight against. Either do nothing or fair to get you out of tumble. You get the same distance regardless. Will try again with another character using the same method.

 

[Bones0]

Sveet, I think you're wrong as well. Tapping out is ever so slightly detrimental to your horizontal distance ontop of that. Should be pretty easy to test, though. Just do an aerial asap out of tumble for one test and nothing for the tumble. In fact I will test it right now.

Yup, makes 0 difference. Tried on stadium with motion sensor bombs in training mode. Take a semi-floaty (I used Doc) and damage him (two motion sensor bombs = 56%), stand at easy to see point on stage and throw down to ensure same placement every time. Back up and run into it holding the direction straight against. Either do nothing or fair to get you out of tumble. You get the same distance regardless. Will try again with another character using the same method.

Cool, thanks for testing that. Can you test Jiggs and Kirby too since their jumps have weird properties?

 

[Gea]

On it now. Tried Falcon and Bowser. Could see no visible difference. Same for Kirby, jiggs next. Jiggs also looks the same to me. I will admit this isn't like I'm using AR to test or anything, but if there is a difference it is small enough that it should never make the difference between reaching an edge to snap and not. As far as I can tell there is no change in horizontal mobility.

Oh but I guess for good reference I had to alter how I tested kirby and jiggs. For Kirby I let him get hit by a red shell two times then a motion sensor bomb, THEN I placed the bomb and tested. Anything more would kill him off the top with the way I was having to do DI. With Jiggs her weight made it difficult to test alone so I opted to just use a red shell at 0% and do multiple tests to account for the margin of error of hitting the direction at not the same time every time. Though I pretty much landed exactly the same place every time from pretty damn high up with her, so yeah, I'm convinced that my tests are correct until someone with a video and AR can prove me wrong.

Quick dumb question: What inputs count for a mash-out? Does rotating the sticks real fast work?

Since you didn't get a good answer, tapping out should be left/right. Think of it like a single dashdance as fast as you want it to be. Way better than rotating the sticks and making yourself fastfall or lose all momentum for too long.

 

[Bones0]

He was talking about mashing out of a grab, not wiggling out of tumble.

 

[Gea]

Oh well ignore then. I guess the only thing he needs to be aware of is any sort of jump will make you jump break, but you still retain a 0 frame advantage except vs Bowser.

Thanks for the correction. Bones.

 

[Bones0]

You can also hold up if you want to break-jump.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Oh well ignore then. I guess the only thing he needs to be aware of is any sort of jump will make you jump break, but you still retain a 0 frame advantage except vs Bowser.

Unless you're Donkey Kong. Then you end up with a 9-frame advantage.

 

[Ripple]

DK gets an advantage when he breaks out

bowser gets an advantage when others break out

 

[E-102 Gamma]

DK gets an advantage when he breaks out

bowser gets an advantage when others break out

The context was mashing to break out of grabs, not just grab breaking in general. I thought that, given the context, the meaning of what I said would be clear enough.

 

[Ripple]

The context was mashing to break out of grabs, not just grab breaking in general. I thought that, given the context, the meaning of what I said would be clear enough.

I got confused so I clarified.

I was thinking that you meant DK didn't get some sort of advantage, the opponent did or meant that he was wrong about bowser because you didn't include an "also" or anything like that.

 

[Gea]

Yeah I didn't mention DK because I figured he was not playing as DK.

 

[Xyzz]

If you don't want to do the tumbling crash landing that forces techs, you could also start an aerial just before landing, so it will get auto-cancelled.

 

[Bones0]

Nevermind .

 

[iRobinhoood]

How many frames of invincibility do you have after letting go from the edge? Let's use Samus as an example.

 

[Bones0]

Your invincibility is based on when you grab the ledge, not when you let go.

Also, I forget. lol

Found it.

Ledgegrabbing Lag: Link (4); Everyone else (8)
Disabled Regrab Period: ALL (29)
Ledgegrab Lag + Regrab Lag: Link (33); Everyone else (37)
Ledge Invincibility: Link (33); Everyone else (37)


From Magus.

So you get 37 frames of invincibility, but can't let go until 29, giving you 28 frames to do whatever you want.

 

[Gea]

Dang it, bones. I just came in here to post that very thing.

Ledgegrab lag is the animation that plays before you can drop, disabled regrab lag is the amount of time the game does not allow you to regrab, and the ledgegrab lab + regrab lag = time it takes a character to frame perfect drop from the edge and regrab it (so you would resnap to the edge on frame 38)