Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[halcyon.days]

Fox and Marth weigh differently. It's one of the reasons why Fox falls down from Fox's shine, and Marth doesn't.

So it's more or less a combination of weight + how Falco's shine works.

 

[Vro]

Can you l-cancel while doing this?

Yes

Ledge-canceling is when you do an aerial and land on the very edge of a platform and you slide off, which cancels the landing lag faster than usual, right?

Yes

If so, do people try to intentionally ledge-cancel in matches, or is it just some flashy thing to do between lives? I geuss just is it worth learning?

There's a difference between consciously going for a ledge cancel and doing a move near a ledge and realizing it will ledge cancel. There's no drawback for doing an aerial near a ledge, and there's even less drawback of you initiating an attack out of ledge cancel. Take it for what it is. Phanna Phunner

Do characters have a higher degree of DI at lower percents, or when they don't receive a lot of knockback, or is it just my imagination?.

DI is largely affected by weight and falling speed. Halcyon covers most of it, so I won't go any further.

 

[Alix]

I have a question!

For some reason, my friend somehow mains a decent yoshi, I can beat it pretty consistently, but it just seems really difficult..and its quickly becoming my least favorite matchup ( if it isn't already)

I am aware that yoshi isn't a very good character, but i just seem to have so much trouble against it!
>.<

to be more specific, i mostly have trouble in finding an opening to hit yoshi...his roll is amazingly annoying, and i constantly get punished by missing attacks that i THOUGHT should have hit, the downsmash quickly leads to edgeguards that lead to stocks..the only reason i win is because yoshi doesnt seem to be a great edgeguarder and my technical ability is far above that of my friends

What characters or strategies would you suggest against yoshi?
Currently i main marth, fox, and jiggs

thanks! ^_^

 

[kupo15]

I have a question about moves dealing no hitstun. For example, if I use raptor boost while someone is lying on the ground, instead of the normal hitstun animation you should be seeing, they pop right out of it and can't react immediately. I've seen this happen with falco's shine as well. Why does this happen?

 

[Vro]

I have a question!

1b. We can't tell you how to beat your friend

- In the Melee Discussion, members take pride in being able to help out other members on any questions and concerns they may have in regards to the game. Questions such as, "I'm having trouble unlocking Final Destination", or, "What is the best way to beat event match __?", are perfectly acceptable, as they maintain the appropriate content to pop up in Melee Discussion, however questions such as, "MAH FREND HE PLAI DAT SHEIK HOW DEW I BEET HIM HE ALWAYZ USE NEEDELZ HOW?!23", are not. To be blunt, we have absolutely no idea how your friend plays, and you will most likely receive flaming for the horrible spelling and grammar. If you have a question in regards to character match ups, go to your character's specific board and ask there. An alternative would be to consult the All Characters Match-up Chart.

I have a question about moves dealing no hitstun. For example, if I use raptor boost while someone is lying on the ground, instead of the normal hitstun animation you should be seeing, they pop right out of it and can't react immediately. I've seen this happen with falco's shine as well. Why does this happen?

Well, both moves in your examples have hitstun, so that's not a factor. Someone asked this question before, and we're actually still waiting on that answer.

 

[KirbyKaze]

to be more specific, i mostly have trouble in finding an opening to hit yoshi...his roll is amazingly annoying, and i constantly get punished by missing attacks that i THOUGHT should have hit, the downsmash quickly leads to edgeguards that lead to stocks..the only reason i win is because yoshi doesnt seem to be a great edgeguarder and my technical ability is far above that of my friends

What characters or strategies would you suggest against yoshi?
Currently i main marth, fox, and jiggs

thanks! ^_^

Character selection isn't the problem, it sounds like you don't really know how to deal with shielding in general. Rolling is bad tbh, you can just aim a move (or grab) to hit where they're going to be because they are set distance. If you just learn when they end, or pay attention, you'll be able to punish them really easily.

In general, spaced, high range moves are a problem for Yoshi.

With Fox just don't do stuff he can crouch cancel D-smash or D-tilt. Don't get greedy with combos either or he'll DJ Nair you.

 

[Alix]

Character selection isn't the problem, it sounds like you don't really know how to deal with shielding in general. Rolling is bad tbh, you can just aim a move (or grab) to hit where they're going to be because they are set distance. If you just learn when they end, or pay attention, you'll be able to punish them really easily.

In general, spaced, high range moves are a problem for Yoshi.

With Fox just don't do stuff he can crouch cancel D-smash or D-tilt. Don't get greedy with combos either or he'll DJ Nair you.

thanks for the help!
well, honestly its not the shield i have problems with, i just cant tell when the roll ends and becomes a shield if you know what i mean, because yoshi's shield and roll look exactly the same..xDD
im working on learning to punish them

also, are there any set moves that knock yoshi out of his second jump, or does it have to do with % AND the move

yea i play really campy with fox using SHL, retreated SHL and the like
i find most of my melee attacks missing because of the roll though >< arghhhh

EDIT: and my l cancel is thrown off frequently because sometimes i hit his shield, and other times it seems like i should but it goes right through the roll, which leads to punishing dtilt/dsmash which sends me off the stage at horrendous trajectories

 

[A Pimp Named Slickback]

don't listen to Alix. he just sucks at using Fox

 

[KirbyKaze]

thanks for the help!
well, honestly its not the shield i have problems with, i just cant tell when the roll ends and becomes a shield if you know what i mean, because yoshi's shield and roll look exactly the same..xDD
im working on learning to punish them

also, are there any set moves that knock yoshi out of his second jump, or does it have to do with % AND the move

yea i play really campy with fox using SHL, retreated SHL and the like
i find most of my melee attacks missing because of the roll though >< arghhhh

EDIT: and my l cancel is thrown off frequently because sometimes i hit his shield, and other times it seems like i should but it goes right through the roll, which leads to punishing dtilt/dsmash which sends me off the stage at horrendous trajectories

falco shine always knocks him out

after that it depends on move and "power"

and for shield roll just fiddle with timings until you get it

 

[kupo15]

Well, both moves in your examples have hitstun, so that's not a factor. Someone asked this question before, and we're actually still waiting on that answer.

oh I see. I think its a glitch but its nonetheless stupid. Wish there was an answer for it

 

[metashinryu]

got a question,whats pivot grabbing?i dunno if i use it without knowing,like when i didnt knew what the hell was shffl but i did use it -_-

 

[Vro]

Pivot grab is when you dash one direction, then within dash dance range, turn around and jump cancel grab.

 

[halcyon.days]

Pivot grab is when you dash one direction, then within dash dance range, turn around and jump cancel grab.

You don't need to JC grab if you do it right. JC grab = jump cancel the grab so it does your standing grab, as opposed to your running grab.

If you grab right while you pivot (like doing pivot fsmash) you'll be in a standing position anyways and you don't need to JC.

Go watch someone like M2K vs. Fox/Falco on FD. You'll see him dash a tiny bit, turn around and grab when he's chainthrowing them.

 

[Vro]

Oh right, I mistook it for dd grab. Pivot grab has a different property, just like pivot smash, my bad.

 

[Mass]

Well I've got a question
I do not know if it was answered in the previous 10 pages but I think it was not because it is not a very common question.
Anyway, here's the matter
In some match I played with a friend, I've seen that he has go through a platform while being in his shield.
I asked him how he did do that and he did not know.
I also triend in training mode and it happenend randomly, but the most of the time, my charracter was just doing some dodges.
It looks like you can go through the plateforme with the down stick anyway

So, my question is, is it just random, am I drunk, or is there a way to go through platform when you want it ?

I hope I am understandable ^^' Thanks.

 

[ArcNatural]

Well I've got a question
I do not know if it was answered in the previous 10 pages but I think it was not because it is not a very common question.
Anyway, here's the matter
In some match I played with a friend, I've seen that he has go through a platform while being in his shield.
I asked him how he did do that and he did not know.
I also triend in training mode and it happenend randomly, but the most of the time, my charracter was just doing some dodges.
It looks like you can go through the plateforme with the down stick anyway

So, my question is, is it just random, am I drunk, or is there a way to go through platform when you want it ?

I hope I am understandable ^^' Thanks.

2 ways to do it.

1. You hold shield and very lightly move the control stick down to fall through the platform (kinda tricky but it does work, can be inconsistent).

2. Called Shai dropping, if your holding forward before you shield (say your on a platform and dash forward and shield while still holding forward). All you need to do is tap the control stick at a 45 degree angle forward and down. This method works very consistently once you know how to do it.

 

[Grahf]

Is there going to be another Smash Bros game? I mean....after the Brawl fiasco?

I hope they don't feel Brawl is a success (but they probably do) and I'm hoping they do some major reforms on the next one.

Question: Has there been any official confirmation of a new SSB game? Even a slight hint at it from the developers? I'm not in touch with the gaming news.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No there hasn't. Or at least I don't think so.

Grahf? Like the rapper? Black Hand NY.

 

[CommanderCody08]

Anyone got tips on how I should work on my spacing (by myself)?

Mains = Falco, Pikachu, Fox, Marth, and Falcon if that helps.

 

[Vro]

Get as far away as possible from something while being just close enough.

 

[Tezushi]

Noobish Question - About using L to Wavedash?

Im not shure, but I use L to Wavedash, now is that a bad thing? Noticing after I started learning about Advanced Melee, months after, there is disadvantages since I didn't decide to just stick with R in the beginning. I felt more comfortable using L becuase it was much easier for me to maneuver with X/Y A/B buttons to me. I solemnly use R for anything, which I believe thats a bad thing, right.? (Only to Shield-roll, mostly about it) Do you guys also think it would take a sintch to switch over to L if this is bad; and would it ruin how accurate I have the L-cancel down?... Please respond back, I have been puzzled on this for some time now.

 

[metashinryu]

Im not shure, but I use L to Wavedash, now is that a bad thing? Noticing after I started learning about Advanced Melee, months after, there is disadvantages since I didn't decide to just stick with R in the beginning. I felt more comfortable using L becuase it was much easier for me to maneuver with X/Y A/B buttons to me. I solemnly use R for anything, which I believe thats a bad thing, right.? (Only to Shield-roll, mostly about it) Do you guys also think it would take a sintch to switch over to L if this is bad; and would it ruin how accurate I have the L-cancel down?... Please respond back, I have been puzzled on this for some time now.

do how you feel more comfortable with,its your choice

 

[Proverbs]

^Basically this, but I will say that it's very helpful to shield with one button and wavedash with the other. And 'shield-rolling' is terrible to do. I would say you should almost never do it. There are times to do it, but rolldodging isn't a great option and can get very predictable.

But otherwise, you should be fine. I wavedash with L.

 

[Pi]

I've actually found it easier to use L to wavedashin (instead of my usually using R) with characters like falco/fox when wavedashing out of shine.
There isn't going to be any real negatives effects as far as I know, and it just might prove easier in some situations
I would juss recommend that you learn to shield and wavedash with different buttons so you can wavedash out of shield, which OWNS rolling by the way.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I wavedash OoS with the same button (R), Just takes time to get used to.

 

[metashinryu]

I wavedash OoS with the same button (R), Just takes time to get used to.

me too,but i do it cuz i feel weird pressing both triggers at the same time,and its just dont letting go the shield for a regular wavedash XD

 

[Grahf]

No there hasn't. Or at least I don't think so.

Grahf? Like the rapper? Black Hand NY.

Grahf as in one of the villains in Xenogears for Playstation 1. Badass villain I must say


Anyway, I have a question about L-Canceling. I read the topic about all terms and read that there is a 7 frame time limit in which to L-Cancel your aerial for no lag. My question is...if I rapidly press L will that work as a substitute? I know this strategy won't work for teching but is the game programmed to have it work for L-Canceling? How's it work :3

 

[DtJ Jungle]

No you can't spam R/L to l cancel.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Wavedash OoS with the same button isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be, as jungle said it just takes practice and getting used to. I don't use R for anything, and I have never had any problems technically.

 

[Mass]

2 ways to do it.

1. You hold shield and very lightly move the control stick down to fall through the platform (kinda tricky but it does work, can be inconsistent).

2. Called Shai dropping, if your holding forward before you shield (say your on a platform and dash forward and shield while still holding forward). All you need to do is tap the control stick at a 45 degree angle forward and down. This method works very consistently once you know how to do it.

Yeah :3 Thank you very much, I'll try it as soon as possible and I'll try to see when it can be usefull in a match.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I have a question about moves dealing no hitstun. For example, if I use raptor boost while someone is lying on the ground, instead of the normal hitstun animation you should be seeing, they pop right out of it and can't react immediately. I've seen this happen with falco's shine as well. Why does this happen?

It doesn't always happen. From what I've learned, there is at least one way you can reproduce this scenario easily. It happens a lot when the attack you are using is "stale". Yes, stale moves in Melee only affects percentages, but it matters in this case as well. If you use the same move several times and then hit someone on the ground, they will probably pop up without stun. This is kind of inconsistent though, as some moves like Falco's shine suffer more from it then others like Sheik's dash attack.

 

[metashinryu]

It doesn't always happen. From what I've learned, there is at least one way you can reproduce this scenario easily. It happens a lot when the attack you are using is "stale". Yes, stale moves in Melee only affects percentages, but it matters in this case as well. If you use the same move several times and then hit someone on the ground, they will probably pop up without stun. This is kind of inconsistent though, as some moves like Falco's shine suffer more from it then others like Sheik's dash attack.

training mode,cpu 999% under temple or other ceiling,after you spam dtilt on them till it reduces damage dealt to 6% he will pop up at the very momment you make another dtilt

 

[Pi]

Frames question;

What's the window for a pivot(actual standing animation)? Does it vary between characters?

What is the window for preforming a smash attack as opposed to a dash attack/jump/tilt?

 

[Ocho(*8*)]

So if Crouch-Canceling uses the ASDI effect, and you can get ASDI with the C-Stick, is it possible to get the same effect as a CC without crouching if instead you were holding down the C-Stick right before you got hit?

 

[chize]

no, you would only get the asdi, crouching itself weakens the hit

 

[halcyon.days]

Which way does Falco's uair send you if you don't DI at all?

 

[Proverbs]

Uh, I think up...? <.<;; Also, why is level 8 G&W a beast? It's ridiculous. He's like the only CPU that plays like a human. Try it out, seriously.

I was told this a long time ago and gave it no credit. Tried it out today and it's absolutely true. Level 8 G&W for top tier (of CPUs, anyway).

 

[Pi]

Uh, I think up...? <.<;; Also, why is level 8 G&W a beast? It's ridiculous. He's like the only CPU that plays like a human. Try it out, seriously.

I was told this a long time ago and gave it no credit. Tried it out today and it's absolutely true. Level 8 G&W for top tier (of CPUs, anyway).

is it cause he edgeguards you?

 

[Proverbs]

No, he like combos. It's ridiculous. And his edgeguarding is pretty beast too. Dropzone parachutes o_X;; One time he jabbed my up+b, then down-tilted when I tried to get back, and then dropzone parachuted. Computers don't do that sort of thing. Just this guy. Try it out if you don't believe me. Results are best with Falcon.

 

[halcyon.days]

No, he like combos. It's ridiculous. And his edgeguarding is pretty beast too. Dropzone parachutes o_X;; One time he jabbed my up+b, then down-tilted when I tried to get back, and then dropzone parachuted. Computers don't do that sort of thing. Just this guy. Try it out if you don't believe me. Results are best with Falcon.

I've had CPU Fox's do unbelievably amazing shine spikes on me lol.