Important Official Custom Moveset Project

[AlphaAustin]

I'm really excited to see custom moves and the metagame evolve in tournaments. Hopefully some unlikely character will shine and even greater variety will reveal itself in the community.

 

[Splash Damage]

Considering Mr. Wizard's stance of "don't ****ing touch my settings", I wouldn't count on being able to make Mii/Palutena sets despite being available right off the bat.

In fact, I remember him stating on Twitter that, ideally, he wanted all of the stations to have every custom unlocked before the event, but still didn't want people to be able to make their own sets despite the ease. If not for time constrants, then odd IMO

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

In fact, I remember him stating on Twitter that, ideally, he wanted all of the stations to have every custom unlocked before the event, but still didn't want people to be able to make their own sets despite the ease. If not for time constrants, then odd IMO

Probably to keep cheating to a minimum, whether it be a slightly different sized mii or equipment effects that can be hidden with negative stats.

Idk why someone would want to ruin their own reputation within the smash community just to win a match this way, but it's just stuff you gotta deal with eh?

 

[Splash Damage]

Probably to keep cheating to a minimum, whether it be a slightly different sized mii or equipment effects that can be hidden with negative stats.

Idk why someone would want to ruin their own reputation within the smash community just to win a match this way, but it's just stuff you gotta deal with eh?

Very true, with 1,000+ entrants there's a lot of variables here, and ever since Fortune, I don't think bad reputations will stop people from being scummy. Makes sense for Mr. Wizard to put that rule in there.

 

[deepseadiva]

Custom tournament about to begin, streaming all day: http://twitch.tv/cosmash

 

[thehard]

Xanadu has this layout now. I dig it, other streams should adopt this model.

 

[Blobface]

Xanadu has this layout now. I dig it, other streams should adopt this model.

That's gorgeous put it in the Louvre now.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Xanadu has this layout now. I dig it, other streams should adopt this model.

Great idea, but I'm not eager to add more things for me to keep track of while streaming.

 

[DunnoBro]

The xanadu monthly seemed to mostly magnify feelings about customs. Players who liked or didn't like them only seemed to feel even stronger those ways, rather than gravitating towards any kind of middle ground.

There was some villager cheese off-stream, and players who will go unmentioned have adopted the belief that Villager's customs are definitely problematic. And lots others were very upset their preferred sets weren't in.

I've also noticed I'm very privileged in a customs meta, duck hunt doesn't have to deal with any of the perceived cheese of other customs at all.

Kong Cyclone, he can consistently kick the can to where DK went, and since DK's shield is so big and the can starts hitting so low, it will almost always shield poke and also auto-combos DK specifically for huge damage and very early kills, making kong cyclone an extremely risky decision.

Trip Sapling/Exploding Balloons: Villager is simply outclassed in damage output, camping ability, and neutral versatility, so he's unlikely to get the percent lead to even begin camping (though the matchup overall isn't uneven since his killing ability is much greater) and if he does try ledge stalling, the zigzag can is a free challenge to him off-stage, and can stage spike. Making that extremely risky too.

Other potent customs like Jumbo Hoops, Heavy Skull Bash, Burning Spindash, and Luigi Iceballs also all have match-up specific issues against duck hunt.

I only lost to Boss, and Seagull Joe, both of which I've never beaten before anyway (though I did way better against seagull's sonic than ever, this MU is actually playable now) And all my other matches were 2:0s.

Some players seem to think zigzag is the most broken custom since it has no real weaknesses in a customs meta. And while I wouldn't go that far, it is obvious I don't have to deal with the crap other players do, so I'm going to try not to apply my personal customs experience too universally from now on.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Does anyone have any data about character viability with and without customs?

 

[deepseadiva]

I'm gonna say, I have never felt more powerful with a character than I have with custom Villager. I can see people people complaining about that. Ledge camp or no ledge camp.

 

[thehard]

The xanadu monthly seemed to mostly magnify feelings about customs. Players who liked or didn't like them only seemed to feel even stronger those ways, rather than gravitating towards any kind of middle ground.

There was some villager cheese off-stream, and players who will go unmentioned have adopted the belief that Villager's customs are definitely problematic. And lots others were very upset their preferred sets weren't in.

I've also noticed I'm very privileged in a customs meta, duck hunt doesn't have to deal with any of the perceived cheese of other customs at all.

Kong Cyclone, he can consistently kick the can to where DK went, and since DK's shield is so big and the can starts hitting so low, it will almost always shield poke and also auto-combos DK specifically for huge damage and very early kills, making kong cyclone an extremely risky decision.

Trip Sapling/Exploding Balloons: Villager is simply outclassed in damage output, camping ability, and neutral versatility, so he's unlikely to get the percent lead to even begin camping (though the matchup overall isn't uneven since his killing ability is much greater) and if he does try ledge stalling, the zigzag can is a free challenge to him off-stage, and can stage spike. Making that extremely risky too.

Other potent customs like Jumbo Hoops, Heavy Skull Bash, Burning Spindash, and Luigi Iceballs also all have match-up specific issues against duck hunt.

I only lost to Boss, and Seagull Joe, both of which I've never beaten before anyway (though I did way better against seagull's sonic than ever, this MU is actually playable now) And all my other matches were 2:0s.

Some players seem to think zigzag is the most broken custom since it has no real weaknesses in a customs meta. And while I wouldn't go that far, it is obvious I don't have to deal with the crap other players do, so I'm going to try not to apply my personal customs experience too universally from now on.

I can't help but feel like more tournament-going players should be posting here. It's tough when there's such a disconnect; we have a whole thread on dealing with stuff like custom Villager and DK (much of it tested, some theorycraft, but all worth trying at Xanadu-level). Is it possible for you to share this information with the others? I'd love to work toward alleviating all this. All of this: http://smashboards.com/threads/comm...rows-kong-cyclone.396222/page-2#post-18843788 should be common knowledge, you know?

 

[Blobface]

It's worth mentioning that Kong Cyclone has 21 frames of startup (including jump squat which is 6 frames), 25 or so frames of attacking, and 26 frames of endlag.

 

[Antonykun]

It always pains me to see that when people think of Customs Villager they think "EW camp"
ere's some aggressive usage of TC plant the sapling on the ledge while the opponent is recovering.
IDK if it can cover both neutral getup and roll at the same time but its still a way to limit the opponents choices when recovering (like villager needed anymore)

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

@ DunnoBro Were people challenging Villager ledge abuse with dsmash? Custom Villager is a powerful character, but I'm entirely convinced ledge stalling is not a viable tactic with him. I did a big write-up on how to beat it in another thread:

http://smashboards.com/threads/comm...rows-kong-cyclone.396222/page-2#post-18843788

It just defies intuition a bit since you're constantly doing damage favorable trades whereas usually in smash you counter things by winning outright; this can lead players who haven't looked into it in depth to not immediately see that the winning tactic of just trading with the balloons is actually winning (of course, using something like Zig-Zag Shot is great if you have that kind of character specific tool).

I bring this up because I strongly feel like customs are very balanced but do know that certain customs have a "knowledge barrier" in that you have to know certain specific things to be able to fight back well, and Villager is a huge case of that. I do wonder if some of the players having a bad time with that just didn't know the counters.

---

To be clear about an important point, I'll be making a thread in the Mewtwo forum tonight (or tomorrow morning) whenever Mewtwo goes live for us to begin sorting out Mewtwo's customs. I don't know what time Nintendo tends to update, and even if I did know, I don't know when I'll be awake or asleep. If Mewtwo goes up and you don't see anything, just be patient for me; I haven't forgotten.

 

[digiholic]

I eagerly await my Mewtwo email, ready with a dozen Crazy Orders passes to unlock his moves as fast as possible.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I eagerly await my Mewtwo email, ready with a dozen Crazy Orders passes to unlock his moves as fast as possible.

I just hope they actually remember to email Canada.

When it came to the CDs, I didn't get an email... until after the CD arrived. Several weeks after people in the States started to get them.

 

[Thinkaman]

Mewtwo has no customs.

 

[Ansou]

Mewtwo has no customs.

That's... Just... Sad...

 

[lordvaati]

going by that, I would not b surprised if Lucas or the next DLC character after don't either.

the moveset project has a new hurdle.......

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

going by that, I would not b surprised if Lucas or the next DLC character after don't either.

the moveset project has a new hurdle.......

That is one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that we have one fewer hurdle. Since Mewtwo has no customs, we do not have to make Mewtwo sets, saving us work.

 

[Ansou]

That is one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that we have one fewer hurdle. Since Mewtwo has no customs, we do not have to make Mewtwo sets, saving us work.

I agree. Mewtwo having no customs is not a hurdle for the Custom Moveset Project. It's just a bit disappointing.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

It looks like they're either still making custom moves, or they're saving them for a future patch. Either way, it looks like Mewtwo won't be having EVO sets outside of 1111. On the flip side, his specials aren't trash. Disable's still iffy.

 

[Zzuxon]

...
Mewtwo doesn't have customs?
...
WHAT THE **** WERE THEY THINKING?
They expect people to pay for a character that is objectively inferior to every other character in the game?
What is wrong with them?

 

[jespoke]

I hope he gets customs at some point, even the simplest light/heavy variants, just to bring his strategic options up to par

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I've heard that Ice Slasher (or whatever Mega Man's ice-based Forward-B custom is) is faster, and that Leaf Shield has lower endlag.

Are any of these sets going to be reviewed if moves are revised significantly?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

They can't be reviewed for EVO if that's what you were asking. EVO is locked in at this point completely.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Anyone checked if the Order Tackle reflector glitch is still in?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Its gone. No longer reflects at all.

 

[Thinkaman]

I've heard that Ice Slasher (or whatever Mega Man's ice-based Forward-B custom is) is faster, and that Leaf Shield has lower endlag.

Ice Slasher is unchanged, and Leaf Shield's precise change is that the projectile is sent out sooner. The overall animation time (endlag from point of button press) is the same.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Cool. Not trying to spread misinformation; the question still stands, though.

 

[Splash Damage]

Wait. Mewtwo has no customs.

So I just made that huge, disrupting role call in the middle of this discussion for nothing?

 

[Zzuxon]

I'm starting to think they'll add in his customs on the 28th.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'm starting to think they'll add in his customs on the 28th.

They cannot add Mewtwo customs without a new patch, which will not happen on the 28th.

I seems overwhelmingly likely that DLC characters will never have customs.

 

[Zzuxon]

They cannot add Mewtwo customs without a new patch, which will not happen on the 28th.

I seems overwhelmingly likely that DLC characters will never have customs.

Have you seen the front page? Mewtwo has something akin to customs.
How do you know there won't be a patch on the 28th?

 

[FSLink]

Have you seen the front page? Mewtwo has something akin to customs.
How do you know there won't be a patch on the 28th?

That isn't really evidence of customs being worked on. It's more like the game is forced to load data that isn't there and you get weird results like the Final Smash-esque darkness and such.

 

[Krysco]

When is this project updated again? Every 6 months was it? I know the EVO sets are locked so not gonna bother with that but with the recent patch nerfing Monkey Flip and the way items are used such as Metal Blade, it makes me wonder if changes will want to be made sooner rather than later for some people. I don't use Diddy or Megaman so I have no idea how drastic the nerfs were but maybe people will want Back Flip or the other Monkey Flip or Shadow Blade more thanks to the nerfs.

Kinda irritating to try and make a standardized set of customs when a single patch can make an amazing move worthless or vice versa (not saying that happened, just saying it can).

 

[ParanoidDrone]

When is this project updated again? Every 6 months was it? I know the EVO sets are locked so not gonna bother with that but with the recent patch nerfing Monkey Flip and the way items are used such as Metal Blade, it makes me wonder if changes will want to be made sooner rather than later for some people. I don't use Diddy or Megaman so I have no idea how drastic the nerfs were but maybe people will want Back Flip or the other Monkey Flip or Shadow Blade more thanks to the nerfs.

Kinda irritating to try and make a standardized set of customs when a single patch can make an amazing move worthless or vice versa (not saying that happened, just saying it can).

Questions like this seem better directed toward the character-specific boards. I'm sure the Mega Man people at the very least are reevaluating Metal Blade vs. Shadow Blade. (IIRC Metal Blade's item pickup was a major factor in its use.) I'm not sure who else really relied on item ftilt and similar things.

 

[Krysco]

I asked here since I don't recall when it's updated (should probably check the op honestly, it probably has the answer) I just threw out Diddy and Megaman as examples of characters that may want custom changes when the time comes to update this.

 

[BSP]

They can't be reviewed for EVO if that's what you were asking. EVO is locked in at this point completely.

That's messed up considering some things have changed. Villager not being ble to pocket Pac-Man's trampoline anymore removes any reasoning of taking the power pac jump in that matchup. Sonic's nerfed BSD and default spin dash may have caused some reconsideration too.