Important Official Custom Moveset Project

[Lavani]

Also getting Mewtwo on the 15th, barring unexpected circumstances I'm planning on unlocking all his customs ASAP and spending a good bit of lab time with him.

 

[Zzuxon]

Can someone explain to me how mii`s will work in evo with customs on? there are small ones and medium versions of mii brawler, does that mean you dont have to select the default mii?

How do you deal with customs regarding mii`s? They dont have the 10 slots that regular characters have, so do you make all of these mii`s beforehand with different movesets?

The Mii boards have identified the best sizes for each mii type, Brawler has 2 best sizes, the other 2 only have 1. So no, you don't have to use default size, though you can choose to with Brawler.
Because they don't have only 10 slots, they use more than 10 presets, basically all the sets the mii boards deemed worthwhile.

 

[Gunla]

Also getting Mewtwo on the 15th, barring unexpected circumstances I'm planning on unlocking all his customs ASAP and spending a good bit of lab time with him.

You know, since he's DLC and all, I won't be surprised if his customs are avaliable from the get go.

It'd make sense, given that the folks without the free download are paying for a character in full. (And, of course, it'd help us quickly but accurately pull a good list of custom movesets to use, instead of scrambling to get them unlocked.)

 

[ZarroTsu]

Something I noticed after collecting all the customs is that customs started showing up more commonly and with actual variety to them. I can only conclude that they botched the drop rate code or something and made customs you already have more common than customs you don't. That or I'm crazy.

The reason I bring this up is I will probably injure myself if I need to unlock Mewtwo's customs, if this is true (assuming the likely chance that they don't improve the drop method). Thank goodness for All Star, at least.

 

[Protom]

I'll b available and willing to test for Mewtwo next week also..

 

[MajorMajora]

Add me to the 15th testing group.

 

[Unknownkid]

Just wondering... since Mewtwo is going to available EVO with its Customs, does this mean other characters have more time to fight for their builds? This is not for me but I like to see GimR, Amsa, Dabuz and other players fight get their build in the game while there is still time~

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Just wondering... since Mewtwo is going to available EVO with its Customs, does this mean other characters have more time to fight for their builds? This is not for me but I like to see GimR, Amsa, Dabuz and other players fight get their build in the game while there is still time~

Abadango even said he liked none of the Pac sets.

 

[Unknownkid]

I felt out Abadango because I thought he was not going period or was that Nientone? What set does Abadango use and why didn't Pac Man board think of it? .... Scratch it. I might go to the PacMan board and ask them there.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Just wondering... since Mewtwo is going to available EVO with its Customs, does this mean other characters have more time to fight for their builds? This is not for me but I like to see GimR, Amsa, Dabuz and other players fight get their build in the game while there is still time~

No, Mewtwo is a special exception for clear reasons. All players had over a month from when EVO using customs was announced and public feedback was engaged and when sets were finalized. To be clear, we had been in contact with dabuz the whole time (he just thought up an Olimar set after the fact, all of his Rosalina sets are in), GimR was not someone we spoke to directly but custom active players are in his scene so he had opportunity, and it seems unlikely that any amount of time would result in a meaningful discussion or debate with the Japanese players.

 

[Unknownkid]

No, Mewtwo is a special exception for clear reasons. All players had over a month from when EVO using customs was announced and public feedback was engaged and when sets were finalized. To be clear, we had been in contact with dabuz the whole time (he just thought up an Olimar set after the fact, all of his Rosalina sets are in), GimR was not someone we spoke to directly but custom active players are in his scene so he had opportunity, and it seems unlikely that any amount of time would result in a meaningful discussion or debate with the Japanese players.

Yeah, I thought so but it never hurt to ask. Thank you though.

 

[---]

@ Amazing Ampharos

Just as a heads up, but it would be nice if you and those volunteering keep research within the eventual M2 thread rather than in here. Many potential mains are already sore they might miss out on giving their input and keeping it in here will only make things worse.

If this has already occurred to you then please disregard this request.

 

[Splash Damage]

I'll be getting Mewtwo on the 15th, so I'll try and help with initial research.

I second this, more than happy to grind out his customs to try and come up with a potential set.

Also getting Mewtwo on the 15th and willing to help test.

Likewise, I'm in the 15 and testing group.

Add me to the list for the 15th, and I'm definitely up for testing customs and stuff as well.

I should be able to get something out of the Mewtwo board by then. Once the 15th comes around aside from a 3 hour class, that day and the next morning (4 hours of getting paid to do next to nothing) I'll be researching Mewtwo strictly.

I'll definitely be testing mewtwo's customs out, hopefully can stream it with Boss/Chudat over that weekend. The 14th is the Wii U monthly though so they might be too tired to do it day of.

I'll be getting Mewtwo on the 15th as well, but I won't be able to dedicate as much time as I'd like to.

I can help. Also getting Mewtwo on the 15th.

I'm getting Mewtwo on the 15th, but school is a thing so how much I can actually help with his customs may be limited.

...;_; You missed me.

Also getting Mewtwo on the 15th, barring unexpected circumstances I'm planning on unlocking all his customs ASAP and spending a good bit of lab time with him.

Add me to the 15th testing group.

I'lll help you guys out with Mewtwo if I can. :3 Joining.

*joins the ever growing bandwagon*

I can also test on the 15th.

*hops on the wagon with the band*

So far, these are all of the 15 or so volunteers getting Mewtwo on the 15th(Assuming of course I didn't miss anyone), so we should have a solid discussion once the time rolls around. Any other people getting Mewtwo should say so now.

 

[Gunla]

I can assist with Mewtwo if needed, as I'm getting him at the 15th as well.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

So far, these are all of the 13 or so volunteers getting Mewtwo on the 15th(Assuming of course I didn't miss anyone), so we should have a solid discussion once the time rolls around. Any other people getting Mewtwo should say so now.

I can help. Also getting Mewtwo on the 15th.

 

[Krysco]

Once a thread gets made regarding Mewtwo and his customs, it would be nice if someone would link it here. Evidently a large amount of people willing to test come here and and I'm not sure how many of us frequent the Mewtwo boards (I personally don't). It's not an absolute must or anything but unless said thread gets stickied in the Mewtwo boards it could be hard to find.


...That and I'm just lazy.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I'm getting Mewtwo on the 15th, but school is a thing so how much I can actually help with his customs may be limited.

 

[Pazx]

I'm getting Mewtwo on the 15th and will help with testing but I feel as if these posts are incredibly unnecessary and only serve to clutter this thread.

 

[RWB]

So far, these are all of the 15 or so volunteers getting Mewtwo on the 15th(Assuming of course I didn't miss anyone), so we should have a solid discussion once the time rolls around. Any other people getting Mewtwo should say so now.

...;_; You missed me.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

FYI: When making Mii sets, it might be best to make every individual Mii as visually distinct as possible.

Otherwise it can get pretty irritating when both players pick a Mii.

 

[Nintendrone]

A possible solution for Mii dittos is to use a sort of colorblind rule derivative, and simply slap team colors on the Miis, which would alleviate confusion by giving them a different outline. I've also been putting different hats on each Mii set in order to make them a bit more distinct.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Yes, when Mewtwo comes out we'll discuss his sets on the Mewtwo board. Here would be a more interesting place to discuss things like how we schedule it and when we close it. Also, yes, it's quite nice that so many people will be getting and exploring Mewtwo on the 15th, but a roll call isn't actually needed.

 

[Malkasaur]

THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? Barely any big tournaments with customs on, AND YOU DECIDE TO MAKE OFFICIAL CUSTOMS FOR EVO? WHEN ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD! Ahem, seriously, why? I used to think customs were no big deal. OH WAS I WRONG. I went to a Xanadu recent where customs were on. My thoughts? CUSTOMS ARE BROKEN AND THEY SHOULD BE BANNED. Why would you decide what customs to use when the community hasn't been using customs in tournaments for very long? Why not wait a while until you decide what customs should be enabled for the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT THIS GAME HAS (especially when ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY!)? I'm not the only one who's complained about certain customs. Seriously, this has got to be the stupidest thing to happen to this game, and that's saying something.

 

[Quickhero]

rant

You stated this yourself, it's only been 4 months. How can you say that WITHOUT A DOUBT the custom meta is broken when it's been so young that we have just started getting out of the custom hype train?

Customs are accepted now, and that's a good thing. At least wait until EVO before you write off custom moves. You can even play in tournaments that just leaves it to default if you so desire, there are two options.

 

[Malkasaur]

You stated this yourself, it's only been 4 months. How can you say that WITHOUT A DOUBT the custom meta is broken when it's been so young that we have just started getting out of the custom hype train?

I didnt say its only been 4 months, I said there's still 4 months UNTIL EVO. Even if the custom meta wasn't broken (which it is), the official custom moves list came out during the infancy of the customs meta, and it came out 4 months before the huge tournament it's going to be at. With the balance patch coming out, customs could be effected in huge ways, and the meta will completely change. So we'll be stuck with this customs when there could be superior ones that were discovered in the 4 months leading up to EVO.

 

[Quickhero]

@ Malkasaur It COULD happen, we don't know for certain. Majority of custom tournaments allow you to import your own moveset, and the only reason why we filled all 10 slots for each character is because EVO won't allow importing. Worse comes to worst, we'll try to talk to Wizard and see if we can update the sets. :3

 

[Malkasaur]

@ Malkasaur It COULD happen, we don't know for certain. Majority of custom tournaments allow you to import your own moveset, and the only reason why we filled all 10 slots for each character is because EVO won't allow importing. Worse comes to worst, we'll try to talk to Wizard and see if we can update the sets. :3

Please talk to him. Allow the customs more time to develop before standardizing the movesets when EVO is months away.

 

[DunnoBro]

THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? Barely any big tournaments with customs on, AND YOU DECIDE TO MAKE OFFICIAL CUSTOMS FOR EVO? WHEN ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD! Ahem, seriously, why? I used to think customs were no big deal. OH WAS I WRONG. I went to a Xanadu recent where customs were on. My thoughts? CUSTOMS ARE BROKEN AND THEY SHOULD BE BANNED. Why would you decide what customs to use when the community hasn't been using customs in tournaments for very long? Why not wait a while until you decide what customs should be enabled for the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT THIS GAME HAS (especially when ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY!)? I'm not the only one who's complained about certain customs. Seriously, this has got to be the stupidest thing to happen to this game, and that's saying something.

Were you the guy I kept 0-deathing with ganon in friendlies?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Please talk to him. Allow the customs more time to develop before standardizing the movesets when EVO is months away.

I would like to interject and point out that it was Mr. Wizard himself who told us that the deadline for giving him the sets to be used at EVO was March 27. That's when the rulesets were all finalized.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

YOU DECIDE TO MAKE OFFICIAL CUSTOMS FOR EVO? WHEN ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?

Because the EVO organizers literally told us to.

Not our fault if you ignored customs only to discover that it's now too late for you to offer your own input on them.

 

[Nintendrone]

@ Malkasaur Why do you say customs are broken? You went to a single event, where presumably most of the regulars there have lots of practice with customs, and you just weren't prepared. That's like saying a character is broken after getting wrecked by it when you fought it for the first time by someone who's more experienced.

Which customs would you say are "broken"? I'll bet you'll target the usual suspects like Timber Counter, while ignoring the ridiculous default specials like Monkey Flip. Most customs are sidegrades at best, some are horrible, and some are upgrades over defaults. Some customs are very powerful, but none of them really need a ban, except for Order Tackle in doubles due to a game-winning glitch.

Why are you so upset that EVO has customs? If there were no majors with them on before, there has to be a first. We did it 4 months in advance because Mr. Wizard gave us a deadline to lock the rules; not in our control. Although the customs meta is very young, the sets were carefully made with lots of research, testing, and debate in the character boards.

Finally, it's not stupid of us to push this project when it'll get the maximum exposure and testing. Custom moves add depth to the game via meaningful choices and expanded viability. The best characters don't get many good customs, while the lower ones get cool and helpful options.

 

[DunnoBro]

Regardless Malk is full of it.

"Customs should be banned?"
"Please allow customs time to develop?"

You don't declare something broken or wrong then claim it should be applied lightly, it's this obviously intellectually dishonest crap I'm tired of seeing. There is no logical base for both the opinion that customs are broken, and that they should also have a meta... But at a later, indefinite time. That's just veiling the desire for customs to never happen.

Also if he really was the person I was playing with (I'm fairly certain because they wouldn't stop johning about everything) it was one of, if not his first time playing sm4sh and was SDing/refusing to air dodge thus getting bodied constantly as a result.

Never should people who do not like, or even play a game have any kind of say in how said game is played.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU? Barely any big tournaments with customs on, AND YOU DECIDE TO MAKE OFFICIAL CUSTOMS FOR EVO? WHEN ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY? WHY? WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT? THAT IS THE STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER HEARD! Ahem, seriously, why? I used to think customs were no big deal. OH WAS I WRONG. I went to a Xanadu recent where customs were on. My thoughts? CUSTOMS ARE BROKEN AND THEY SHOULD BE BANNED. Why would you decide what customs to use when the community hasn't been using customs in tournaments for very long? Why not wait a while until you decide what customs should be enabled for the BIGGEST TOURNAMENT THIS GAME HAS (especially when ITS 4 MONTHS AWAY!)? I'm not the only one who's complained about certain customs. Seriously, this has got to be the stupidest thing to happen to this game, and that's saying something.

Actually these days most big tournaments have customs legal. Movesets had to be locked in for EVO on March 27 for logistical reasons (it turns out running a 1000+ man smash tournament concurrently with something like 7 other games is pretty hard), but we did get a special exception for Mewtwo's sets due to the fact that, obviously, we can't have a good basis to form his sets before he releases. Also, to be clear, these sets are optimized to be as powerful as we can make them; we did not at any point exclude any custom on the belief that it's too good and shouldn't be allowed; we were never presented with any decisive evidence that any custom move is broken in singles play.

As per your claim about customs being broken and this Xanadu event holding the proof, this is convenient as we can resolve this directly. I know Xanadu always streams their stuff including all of the matches involving their best players late in the event. Could you link us to specific points in the stream archive in which highly broken matches occur? It's probably obvious that I don't believe they exist, but if they do, there's no good reason you shouldn't have video evidence of something terrible happening. My experience and the consistent experience of most players is that customs actually improve the balance of the game (IMO it's a big improvement, some argue it's modest, few argue it's zero or a negative effect); your claim that the direct opposite is true is one I would like substantiated with match footage.

 

[thehard]

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[DunnoBro]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "all arguments against customs are illogical" but it's really getting frustrating trying to differentiate the actually good/potentially problematic stuff like skinny brawler or exloding balloons and stuff people just don't understand like burning spindash, zigzag, and hardy pikmin.

I personally am not 100% convinced customs are more balanced than default, I like the options many characters get and it's really fun to lab it out again with all these characters, especially my main. But it's still a ridiculous amount of information to take in, and that's why I'm actually very content with how things are now, with default and customs existing as healthy co-metas.

But there is definitely room for jank and people calling EVERYTHING jank makes it really hard to take any claims seriously. And the main reason I lean towards the opinion customs are more balanced is mostly because the things people point out as unbalanced really, really aren't.

Smashers in general just don't seem used to specials being good. Look at PM, lots of salt even from top players about non-dominating characters and their specials.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Smashers in general just don't seem used to specials being good. Look at PM, lots of salt even from top players about non-dominating characters and their specials.

Which is really super weird since the top tiers in Melee, Brawl, and earlier versions of PM all had pretty out-there specials. Shine, Shuttle Loop, Offense Up, Teleport...

If you ask me I think it's because characters like DK have been historically meh at best while others like Villager and WFT were kind of written off early in Smash 4's life as far as I can tell, and now they're making huge comebacks and...IDK, players are lashing out because reasons?

 

[DunnoBro]

Which is really super weird since the top tiers in Melee, Brawl, and earlier versions of PM all had pretty out-there specials. Shine, Shuttle Loop, Offense Up, Teleport...

If you ask me I think it's because characters like DK have been historically meh at best while others like Villager and WFT were kind of written off early in Smash 4's life as far as I can tell, and now they're making huge comebacks and...IDK, players are lashing out because reasons?

I think the biggest reason is habits that were once considered "safe" and "optimal" like just throwing attacks at DK, Ganon, Zard etc since they lack the movement, speed, or general options punish it, now becomes very unsafe and is extremely punishable.

Or air dodges/rolls, this is a big one due to all those killing upspecials or general quick, strong attacks with quirky drawbacks that generally make them only worth going for while the opponent is in a dedicated motion. (like air dodges, rolls or "Sex kick" combo breaker type moves) Jumping away is now the safest immediate option, which enables you to be more readily punished later.

Tl;dr: People aren't used to being punished in this game. (Or punishing)

 

[Teshie U]

The EVO rules state that you cannot upload sets from any device, but do they actually say you can't make sets for Default Miis and Palutena during the tournament?

 

[BestTeaMaker]

Goddamn, I was in class when this happened. I wanted to be here when Malk blew up.

The EVO rules state that you cannot upload sets from any device, but do they actually say you can't make sets for Default Miis and Palutena during the tournament?

Considering Mr. Wizard's stance of "don't ****ing touch my settings", I wouldn't count on being able to make Mii/Palutena sets despite being available right off the bat.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Were you the guy I kept 0-deathing with ganon in friendlies?

I think I love you.