Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Repryx]

that being said MK can fly....yeah MK wins BTW I didnt mean to sound mean when I said be quiet


Dont forget while Sonic is faster...its only in running speed, All of MKs moves save the fsmash are faster than Sonics attacks, which is stupid

-Ciao

 

[Deleted member]

*Shuts up*

 

[NJzFinest]

In a suggested tier list I saw in the backroom, Sonic was in the very last tier.

 

[Valken]

If we were to split it into only Top, Mid, and Low...
Would this be the general consensus?
Bolded signifies general agreement of top of the tier potential.


High
Pit
Zamus
Ike
Diddy
MK
Snake
Lucas
D3
Olimar
Pikachu
Fox
Zelda
Marth
Falco
ROB
GaW
TL
Wolf

Middle
Wario
PT
Kirby
Link
Mario
Sonic
Samus
Peach
IC
Sheik
Ness
Luigi
Lucario
Jigglypuff

Low
Bowzer
DK
Yoshi
C. Falcon
Ganon

 

[St. Viers]

hey, swordmasterxxx, sonic is low tier....

oh, and re: ankoku's post, the real difference between sonic and MK is that...

...Sonic sucks

 

[Repryx]

Dont get it twisted sonic doesnt suck he just doest have the advantages that other characters have so he has to do more....that being said...my sonic is nyce!

-Ciao

 

[St. Viers]

Dont get it twisted sonic doesnt suck he just doest have the advantages that other characters have so he SUXXX
-Ciao

fixed. what do you think sucks means? I think it means he isn't as good as everyone else.

*A little tear forms in his eye*

I love the innocence of new players.

QFT

 

[Repryx]

Sucks means he cant fight at all whereas my sonic has murdered other characters despite me having to do crap loads extra to get a stock


-Ciao

 

[Zankoku]

oh, and re: ankoku's post, the real difference between sonic and MK is that...

...Sonic sucks

While I'm all for being blunt, I don't like to destroy newbies' illusions that sometimes their favorite character is actually terrible. Be nice. : P

 

[BDawgPHD]

Thats not true. BDawg thinks MK is the best character because his experiences while playing WITH him tell him so.

I think Snake is the best character because of my experience playing AGAINST him.

Very different viewpoints to consider.

I truly have no idea who is going to be top. I won't make any assertions just yet because to much is still being discovered. The mere fact that Pikachu is JUST discovering chain-grabs is reason enough for my attitude. The only thing I know right now are which characters are awesome, which ones are pseudo-awesome, and which ones just aren't awesome. And my opinion of that changes almost every day. ^^

It's funny that you say that. Because I say Pikachu is top tier because of the good Pikachu's I've seen. I also say some of the other characters that Corner-face puts in low tier are actually high tier because I've seen how they work when they're played well. The problem is I don't know an insanely good Meta Knight.

Recently I played .yoshi's Meta Knight on wifi, and it made me remember how ridiculous and annoying it is to play against Meta Knight. Honestly, Pikachu and Meta Knight are my only hard matchups. That, and Azen XD and that's only until I meet a good Snake, I suppose.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Oh, I see. You can't argue tournament results I guess. However that's not gonna stop me for some time until things start to set in stone (which is of course like within a year or two). =P

Stalling banned for what anyhow? Ledgecamping?

Mk has almost infinite invincibility frames due to him up bing instantly after ledge droping...
Hmmm i migh move dk up i guess to mid tier but ike stays in his position sorry guys. Sonic lolz some how has won 5 tournys sense the game has been out in the US so he can't be bottom yet i wish i could see the list in the b-room

 

[Daichi]

Just a few opinions

I see alot of love here for metaknight being really high. Yeah, he's great. fast attacks, good recovery, a great overall character. But in my experience fighting, both with and against him, i find him a bit easy to sheildgrab and ko. Not saying that makes him low, just that it might hinder him from being epicly high in the long run.

Luigi should, without question, be higher than Mario. Now Mario is my main, but im not going to deny that Luigi is just a far better smash bros. character. His recovery, aerial priority, and power outdo Mario, not to mention that fire jump punch.

Dedede should be up there quite a ways. The chainthrows and edgegaurding is destructive when used right. I'll have to agree with Samurai Panda and Youko in saying he's definitely the best heavy character in the game.

Diddy, Toon Link, Olimar, and Marth, in my opinion, could be the best there is. Diddy's insane dash attack combos are just too good, and Olimar's DOT attacks ****. Toon link's aerials are just destructive, and in my experience he isnt as light as he looks. Marth? Well he's just too good, again.

Spacies for high. Falco can chaingrab his downthrow, and with the SHL and dair spike, he's definitely gotta be up high in the rankings. Fox is just fox. He's god good speed, a decent meteor, and we can't forget the good 'ol shine. Wolf, i think, is overrated, but still good. Mos of his attacks double hit and are hard to punish. His blaster is useful at close range, and redshine(?)->fsmash seems near unavoidable if done right.

Now here is an opinion some people might not agree with. This is by no means a hate speech against pit or roy, or anyone who uses them. In melee, roy was the character that new players seemed to use most. He was good at a low level, and fairly easy to be decent with, but he didnt have too much depth. Now thats not to say that there aren't people who did amazing things with him. Pit, i believe, is the new roy in a way. Most new players i know use him, and its not too hard to be decent with him. Maybe this is just because i dont fight with/against him enough, but i find that his main strategy is arrow and "HI-YI-YI-YAAAWWW" spam. The majority of noob-type players i know generally use pit. Again, this is not saying that ONLY noobs use pit, or that everyone that uses him is a noob. However, because it's so easy to become decent with pit, imagine what a real, competaticve player could do with such a character. Pit for high.

Anyhow, these are just my opinions.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Did you see my tier list i need to edit it a little but yeah that kinda sounds write.

 

[Repryx]

^^Lolz its hard to be decent with Pit simply because you(I) have(had) to master spacing Pit is garbage if you cant space well, that being said my strategy tends to be pressure by getting you off the edge and gimping your return...its fun!

That being said Pit sucks if the user is uncomfortable in the air. its all about the level you play at sir

-Ciao

 

[Browny]

why do people insist on correcting other peoples tier lists. its inherently wrong since you cant 'correct' it because all the changes you make are your opinion, nothing is certain.

meh

anyway wheres the lucario love? Aura sphere beyond 100% has got to be worth at least upper middle tier...

 

[Repryx]

Lucario sounds like a Demon Jackal...Anubis gets no love is Smash be he Demon or god

THEN he has dreadlocks....WTF?

-Ciao

 

[PIMPSLAP]

thats why i nicly tell them no dj browny although some times they present sufficient information in a non biased manner that makes me change the list but hardly ever in the top to high tier list thoguh...

 

[COLDshiver]

I think that the tier list will have fewer sections, rather than have high, mid-high, etc. I think it would most likely be high,mid,low or maybe only 4 sections. With the 'dumbing down' of the game I think that the differences between all characters are fairly close and there isn't a clear cut area where you can tell character x is definitely better than character y. Granted, some characters have obvious advantages like speed, chain grabs, priority, AT, etc. Overall the characters are much closer than in melee. Just my opinion and thoughts

 

[Valken]

Pit definately is high tier in this game. Simply because his f/smash is insanely quick. Space well, spot dodge, f/smash, edge chase if it doesn't kill them. Point being, if his f/smash can kill you, one small mistake and your done. If he spot dodges or shields, odds are that you're getting a f/smash. Not to mention with good spacing, getting them up to f/smash KO percents isn't hard at all.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

your write though in the long run i see i gigantic high tier 4 top tier and the rest low. thats just my opinion as well but it seems very plausible

the top tier to high chars all counter pit. mk spot dodge d smash
Snake run attack to up smash spam kill pit
Marth out ranges
Falco just out does pit
G&W out priotizes pit.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

But still, almost all of your other corecctions to my tier were incredibly unreasonable. Especailly Ike and Sonic being low tier.

Both have already been explained why they aren't High tier. Read the topic. Ike and Sonic being Low isn't just likely, it's probably what will happen.

 

[Daichi]

^^Lolz its hard to be decent with Pit simply because you(I) have(had) to master spacing Pit is garbage if you cant space well, that being said my strategy tends to be pressure by getting you off the edge and gimping your return...its fun!

That being said Pit sucks if the user is uncomfortable in the air. its all about the level you play at sir

-Ciao

i agree with you about gimping and spacing, but the point im making, or attempting to anyways, is that if noobs can be ok with him, imaging what a REAL player can do. i can see pit placing decently high, maybe high-middle tier, but not top.

P.S. Lucario for Egyptian-God tier, just cuz he looks like anubus.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

lolz your funny Daichi
Star storm thanks for your backing i apreciate it. it get repetative deffending my list and what not.

 

[NJzFinest]

Low
DK

This is why smashboards is stupid.

 

[thefindingmoon]

i would say when mastered the characters metaknight, pit, marth, and falco would be the highest of the high but this is just my opinion. Next i would say toon link, Zamus, diddy kong, olimar, fox, and wolf are possibly just as well at staying up there dependong on how you play and how your opponent plays.(also maybe sonic im not so sure though) Then i also think that certain characters can be really good if you learn how to use them really well and maitain your confidence in winning while playing as them. they are
Peach, Ness, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Wario, and possibly Ike. Everyone else i really know nothing about so far.

IMO most all characters are equal if you know what your doing,,,beating the best of the best just means knowing how to stop them and then punishing them when there down,,,also alot of focus on what you and your oppenent are doing

 

[ShadowLink84]

Both have already been explained why they aren't High tier. Read the topic. Ike and Sonic being Low isn't just likely, it's probably what will happen.

Considering Sonic has dashdancing and several physics abusing abilities he won't be low.

Not sure about Ike, I like him and I find he does well agaisnt MK who he outranges and outprioritizes but the recovery ability, approaching and combo sucks though he does have some and a good edge guarding game.
Most likely low tier or low in the middle tier.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Guys i can't for sure put sonic in bottom tier because he has one a couple tournys....
And nj i fill sorry for the Dk hate as well rep for dk like im doing with kirbs and we can make them top tier they got there moves changed up dk seems more versatile now you agree?

 

[Valken]

I put DK low because his size is seriously a huge issue. I know all of his pros and his cons, but when it boils down to it, his size makes him insanely easy to combo. A lot of the combo's in the game that are impossible to pull off or extremely hard or easy to escape, can be pulled off with easy on DK. Apparently in Brawl, size is extremely important. It's a little biased towards fatties, but it's true.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Guys i can't for sure put sonic in bottom tier because he has one a couple tournys....
And nj i fill sorry for the Dk hate as well rep for dk like im doing with kirbs and we can make them top tier they got there moves changed up dk seems more versatile now you agree?

Valken speaks the truth, its a ***** to fight small characters like Olimar and Kirby.

 

[PIMPSLAP]

lol you quoted me why?
I know these about dk
Olimar is stunted from top tier because of his gimpable recovery
Sonic lack kill moves
See this along with other things holds the charecters we all hold close from being top tier....

 

[Valken]

I think the Tier lists generally go like this.

High: You can beat top but have to put in a little extra effort

Mid: It's possible to beat Top Tiers but you will have to work your *** off and are at a complete dissadvantage.

Low: You can not defeat a Top Tier character of equal player skill, no matter what.

I don't think a DK will EVER be able to beat TL, Marth, Snake etc...

 

[PIMPSLAP]

My tier list before it disapears.(bump)
TIER LIST:
Top tier
Falco
Snake
G&W

High tier
Ice climbers
MK
Pit
ZSS
Olimar
Marth
Toon link
Rob
King ddd
Wolf
Fox


Middle Tier
Pikachu
Wario
Sheik/and Zelda go here
Peach
Lucas
Lucario
Diddy Kong
DK


Low tier
Ness
Samus
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Mario
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Ike (fan boys will attack me
Kirby(this hurts me my favorite this low ouch)
Sonic
Link


Lower Tier?
Jiggs
Ganondorf
BowserTIER
i moved Dk to mid tier but thats the max i'm allowing guys. (to punishible and counterable.

If your competive i suggest you master snake seeing as he seems to win the most and has great matchups. At least a secondary.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Just out of curiosity, why are Luigi and Kirby that low?

 

[Valken]

Fox Top Tier?

I've never seen someone put Fox on Top. He's a permanent member of High, but never Top. Why is this?

With his speed, foxtrot, falling speed, and second jump, he can potentially avoid all attacks. His SHDair is amazing to follow up with a shield grab or a spot dodge.
By running off the stage to a second jump Dair, he can gimp.

He's one of the few characters with a non conditional KO.

Once you know the percent your opponent KOs at via U/smash, you simply need to refrain from using it at all until the amount is reached, then just pull one off. Guaranteed KO, completely unsituational (except the damage of course.)

MK KOs at 83 I believe, I'm working on a list of all character's and there U/Smash KO percentages for this reason. So far, 90% of good characters haven't reached 100.

His U/Smash is quick, practically unpunishable, when stutterstepped back then foward it adds an extremely useful final U/Smash, and KOs vertically, so it's completely guaranteed given the damage and as long as you refrain from using it until then (which is suprisingly easy.)

I'm asking for my own personal knowledge, I'm not trying to say he's Top, I'm just asking why he isn't.

 

[AmericanBison]

I agree with most of that list. I would have put PT mid, and luigi mid to high. even including grabs, is the ice climbers really on the top of high? The top-mid right now is still very solid. a lot of people forget about G&W, and im glad you put him in his spot.

I am not a big authority, and I am only trying to help your list.

 

[slikvik]

Bum wins tournaments with DK every week. That is all

 

[FrostByte]

Fox is probably top. Because he's been nerfed from melee, people automatically feel that he should be lower. He still has speed and comboability, his attacks are super fast, high priority and sometimes unpunishable (backdoor to utilt spam). And his recovery has been buffed so well that he's almost impossible to gimp. The hardest space animal anyway.

 

[Valken]

Shiek? What's the reasoning behind her placement? Curiosity...

I haven't tried it but how well does she gimp with running off the stage, second jumping to fair?
I know it can't KO anymore, but how does it fair as a gimp? I'd imagine if it worked will she could possibly start carrying her own weight.

 

[powell651234]

snake is dirty

 

[PK-ow!]

Considering Sonic has dashdancing and several physics abusing abilities he won't be low.

That should be Sonic's slogan:

SONIC: Physics-abusing abilities.




Zelda can't be higher tier than Lucas or Lucario. Zelda's hitboxes take a lot of effort to get right. So even assume you're someone who never screws them up - you still have to jump through hoops to get them on. Add all the vulnerability from below, and despite all the Din's Fire spammage in the world, Zelda is hard.

I believe it fits the definition of "Have to work your *** off," and so should go mid tier.

Ganondorf will be higher tier, maybe mid-high. If MK's going to be high, and Ganon's tank qualities allow him to fight MK, then Ganon will be played.