Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[ToP CaT]

Tiers come from tournament results, and the past 2 tournaments at Georgia Tech were won by a Peach/Olimar player and a Meta Knight player.

no because tournament brackets aren't consistent and characters are put out and have byes tiers should be based on analysing character advantages and disadvantages

 

[marthsword]

haven't played all characters, but

Top Tier

Pit
Marth
Meta Knight
Squirtle

High Tier

Diddy
Toon Link
Zelda/Sheik
Lucas
Ike (defensively with great spacing)

thats as far as ill go.

 

[shortwanabelaker]

I keep reading things about sonic not being that great.

SONIC IS AMAZING. groud speed in fact is enough to keep him in the top tier. hes incredibly unpredictable and hes probably the only one that can dashdance.. kinda. he has pretty good ariels and a spring.. as soon as tournaments start u'll see y sonics top tier

 

[UnSaxon51]

This is obviously a very rough estimate, but it's based on what my group and I have figured out so far. The game is pretty balanced over all, but there are still some noticeable character differences.

Top:
Marth
Fox
Wolf
Diddy

High:
Pikachu
Falco
Toon Link
R.O.B.
Meta Knight
Pit
Olimar

Mid:
Ike
Dedede
Luigi
Lucario
Zelda
Kirby
Wario
Ness
Lucas
Samus
*Squirtle
GW
Zero Suit Samus
Mario
Snake
Sheik
*Charizard
Pokemon Trainer
Ice Climbers
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Bowser

Low:
*Ivysaur
Peach
DK
Link
Ganondorf

Bottom:
Yoshi
Captain Falcon

I'm well aware that there is plenty of room for movement on this list (particularly in the middle tier). I feel pretty confident overall in the Top, Low, and Bottom lists though. Let's see how that pans out.

 

[Xeris]

his Fsmash is long, but if you play your cards right, you'll mind game someone into getting hit with it.

and he has lots of fast moves, Utilt,Jabs,Bair,Nair,Ftilt,Uair,Bair. you're just unfamiliar with them, that's all XD

and offcourse, his capitalistic grab range, which kills everything in its way, including luigi's green tornado, GaW's Dair,Fair and ?air approaches, and almost nothing stands in its way.

He's right. . . I ***** with DeDeDe last night.

JET HAMMER FTW?

Who has a dB you can WALK and JUMP with?

**** he is strong too... Never see any other character K/O That wel... Hammer hit box takes 5 years to come out? WHAT IS HE TALKING ABOUT LOL THE HITBOX COMES OUT WAY EARLY!

 

[Baamage]

Wha?

If you hadn't noticed, NO ONE can wavedash... That was proven a very, very long time ago...

ah i messed up my wording. I know nobody can wavedash. I meant to say that theres less ways to desync with ICs, though there still are other ways to desync.

 

[Baamage]

Wha?

If you hadn't noticed, NO ONE can wavedash... That was proven a very, very long time ago...

ah i messed up my wording. I know nobody can wavedash. I meant to say that theres less ways to desync with ICs, though there still are other ways to do so.

 

[Hypothesis]

Which of the three space animals is the best in this game?

 

[DarkKnight077]

Best Space Animal?

It's either Wolf or Fox. Falco...is eh.

Falco is more top-mid material IMO.

And Zamus is so low tier.

 

[Terranrox]

way, way, off. there is absolutely no way that dk is worse than everyone considering he received nothing but buffs and I have a feeling that luigi is better than mario in this game

I have to agree... tier systems takes years of research and compilation of data between the most prestigous players in smash society... not many of you who write in this thread needs to wait for a REAL official tier list from the best players...

The Melee tier system took a while what makes you think the Brawl comes out sooner...

 

[ForteEscape]

Well I'll do a bit of speculation based on the characters I've mained/seconded

Marth: My main. Metagame almost exactly the same as it was in melee. That's almost enough said...minus those advanced techniques, but still beastly. I find his horizontal recovery somewhat...difficult, but if you still have a jump, you'll almost always make it. The shorter sword bothers me just a bit (I've been missing in wifis a lot), but it's no problem to get used it. Still combos well. A definite top tier.

Lucas: My other main. Lucas is fun :D. SHPKF approach is very nice. Upsmash isn't as slow as I thought, and very easy to mindgame into, with a HUGE hitbox that lingers a bit. Grabs are nice, bthrow always kills at high percentages. PKT is great when opponent loses his jump. Love his aerials. Fast, high priority. Absolutely in love with dair. Fsmash is fast and strong. However, he's pretty light, and could probably be beaten by space animals...and Marth. I'm sensing a mid-middle or high-middle tier.

Ike: My secondary. Pretty darn fast for someone who's so strong. Quick draw approach is awesome, and great for mindgames (well...for me anyway). Bair is fast. Practically any attack can KO. He would be my main...if only he could combo. Most combos I can get in are 2-4 hits, all, if not most, ending in Aether. Somewhat predictable, aerials besides bair are slow, but hard to shieldgrab if aerials are spaced. His fair is fast after it's out, and hits under him too. But dayum... IF ONLY HE COULD COMBO . A definitely high-middle tier.

Falco: My other secondary. I kinda dislike the shinerang, but it's good to get out of some annoying combos. Pretty nice edgeguard too, though there are better options. I hate what they've done to his dair; Falco pillar is practically nonexistant, though SHdairs are still pretty effective. His new neutral A is awesome, good for damage, hard to DI out of. Can CHAINGRAB (<3). His aerials are a bit weaker, but not by much. I see him as high tier, but not top.

Pit: I'll start off by saying I hate fliers, since SHaerial approaching with them is just...weird to me, and I just find them...annoynig >_o. For this reason, he's not a main or a secondary. But even though he is a flier, I love Pit. Bow game is awesome. downB is good for those pests who try to chuck projectiles at you while they're trying to recover (take that!), and comes out/goes away fast. sideB is pretty hard to DI out of, and good damage racker. All aerials are decently strong, and lead into combos pretty well. Pretty strong smashes. Insane recovery. Potential for top tier, but a definite high tier.

So here's my list:
Top Tier:
Marth
*Pit

High Tier:
Pit
Falco
*Ike

Middle Tier:
Ike
Lucas

*: has potential

Darn you people who put Lucas in low tier >:o

 

[ToP CaT]

Well I'll do a bit of speculation based on the characters I've mained/seconded

Marth: My main. Metagame almost exactly the same as it was in melee. That's almost enough said...minus those advanced techniques, but still beastly. I find his horizontal recovery somewhat...difficult, but if you still have a jump, you'll almost always make it. The shorter sword bothers me just a bit (I've been missing in wifis a lot), but it's no problem to get used it. Still combos well. A definite top tier.

Lucas: My other main. Lucas is fun :D. SHPKF approach is very nice. Upsmash isn't as slow as I thought, and very easy to mindgame into, with a HUGE hitbox that lingers a bit. Grabs are nice, bthrow always kills at high percentages. PKT is great when opponent loses his jump. Love his aerials. Fast, high priority. Absolutely in love with dair. Fsmash is fast and strong. However, he's pretty light, and could probably be beaten by space animals...and Marth. I'm sensing a mid-middle or high-middle tier.

Ike: My secondary. Pretty darn fast for someone who's so strong. Quick draw approach is awesome, and great for mindgames (well...for me anyway). Bair is fast. Practically any attack can KO. He would be my main...if only he could combo. Most combos I can get in are 2-4 hits, all, if not most, ending in Aether. Somewhat predictable, aerials besides bair are slow, but hard to shieldgrab if aerials are spaced. His fair is fast after it's out, and hits under him too. But dayum... IF ONLY HE COULD COMBO . A definitely high-middle tier.

Falco: My other secondary. I kinda dislike the shinerang, but it's good to get out of some annoying combos. Pretty nice edgeguard too, though there are better options. I hate what they've done to his dair; Falco pillar is practically nonexistant, though SHdairs are still pretty effective. His new neutral A is awesome, good for damage, hard to DI out of. Can CHAINGRAB (<3). His aerials are a bit weaker, but not by much. I see him as high tier, but not top.

Pit: I'll start off by saying I hate fliers, since SHaerial approaching with them is just...weird to me, and I just find them...annoynig >_o. For this reason, he's not a main or a secondary. But even though he is a flier, I love Pit. Bow game is awesome. downB is good for those pests who try to chuck projectiles at you while they're trying to recover (take that!), and comes out/goes away fast. sideB is pretty hard to DI out of, and good damage racker. All aerials are decently strong, and lead into combos pretty well. Pretty strong smashes. Insane recovery. Potential for top tier, but a definite high tier.

So here's my list:
Top Tier:
Marth
*Pit

High Tier:
Pit
Falco
*Ike

Middle Tier:
Ike
Lucas

*: has potential

Darn you people who put Lucas in low tier >:o

bad...

falco sux..,zelda is mid/high

 

[A2ZOMG]

My god, what is it with the people who put G&W in the mid tier? Seriously?

G&W is literally one of the best characters in the game. He has like no bad attacks, and he has several BROKEN attacks. He has like the best non-projectile approach in the entire game (srsly, B-airs >>> Marth's F-air). He gets kills at similar percentages Ike does. He has a techchase throw which has a LOT of immediate combo options (IIRC, you can immediately D-throw to Jab, D-tilt, D-smash, and Judgement). His range and priority are too good. His recovery is top tier. Best part, his shield doesn't suck, and he survives longer because of better DI and recovery.

And by far, it's undeniable he has the most actual variety out of all characters. None of his attacks lacks purpose (except for the Forward, Up, and Back throw), and it's fairly easy to keep his attacks non-diminished by simply spamming B-airs on your enemy which will **** them in EVERY WAY outside of getting direct KOs (he has like way too many overpowered kill moves anyway). His only real disadvantage is being lightweight and having a somewhat slower than average rolling dodge.

I'm gonna say it again if you haven't heard already from me. G&W is freaking top tier. At the very least, he's definitely top tier in team matches with the abuse of Oil Panic, which is overpowered to the point of officially being gay.

 

[Tin]

My god, what is it with the people who put G&W in the mid tier? Seriously?

G&W is literally one of the best characters in the game. He has like no bad attacks, and he has several BROKEN attacks. He has like the best non-projectile approach in the entire game (srsly, B-airs >>> Marth's F-air). He gets kills at similar percentages Ike does. He has a techchase throw which has a LOT of immediate combo options (IIRC, you can immediately D-throw to Jab, D-tilt, D-smash, and Judgement). His range and priority are too good. His recovery is top tier. Best part, his shield doesn't suck, and he survives longer because of better DI and recovery.

And by far, it's undeniable he has the most actual variety out of all characters. None of his attacks lacks purpose (except for the Forward, Up, and Back throw), and it's fairly easy to keep his attacks non-diminished by simply spamming B-airs on your enemy which will **** them in EVERY WAY outside of getting direct KOs (he has like way too many overpowered kill moves anyway). His only real disadvantage is being lightweight and having a somewhat slower than average rolling dodge.

I'm gonna say it again if you haven't heard already from me. G&W is freaking top tier. At the very least, he's definitely top tier in team matches with the abuse of Oil Panic, which is overpowered to the point of officially being gay.

True that. GAW's Bair approach is almost flawless due to the fact that it un-punishable.

 

[RazeveX]

Top Tier:

Toon Link
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Zelda
ZSS

High Tier:

Ike
Fox
Marth
Wolf
Pit
Metaknight

High-mid Tier:

Luigi
Falco
Sheik
Sonic
Wario
Kirby

Low-mid tier

Ness
Lucario
R.O.B
Snake
Jigglypuff
Peach

Low tier:

Mario
Captain Falcon
Game and Watch
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Pikmin and Olimar
King Dedede
Pokemon Trainer

Bottom tier:

Samus
Bowser
Link
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Donkey Kong

 

[armlx]

So far, from what I've seen in no-item battles on Final Destination.

Top:

Marth, Sheik, and Fox are all really good. No surprises here. Pit is also very strong. These definitely make up the top tier.

High-Top:

Metaknight is very good, but lacks a solid way to kill. Sonic seems good as well, but I have yet to figure out how to optimally use all of his attacks, especially his neutral A in air and down Smash. These 2 seem high tier at least though.

Wolf is somewhere around here, though he seems to be to Fox what Roy was to Marth last game.

High:

Ike is strong, as eventually you will hit them and they will simply die.

Lucas has very powerful smashes and air attacks, but his throws are lacking and he's sorta weak to air attacks from the sides, like Pit and Meta.
Olimar has the same strong smashes, but he's weak to longer ranges in air (Marth), only 2 B attacks, and has a weak down smash but has a good throw and protection against air attacks with his B-up. His recovery is also very good on FD and keeping Pikmin up is easy. I'm sure one of these two is pretty much strictly worse than the other.

Jigglypuff has only improved since Melee, where she was already good. Rollout can now be controlled in the air and requires less charge for the same amount of damage. The real issues here are a lack of upwards recovery and a real issue with the diminishing returns aspect of attacks. Still solid though.

Link and Toon Link are both good fighters, but they fall flat in the high priority attackers category to Marth/Meta.

Zero Suit Samus I don't have enough experience to definitively say, but her smashes are very strong, her range is very good, and she is fairly fast. Definitely will be a tournament caliber character, though not top tier.

Mid- High:

Falco loses everything Fox lost, and IMO the reason he was really good was he was better able to capitalize on these things.

Ganondorf changed a lot since Melee, but has a lot of good attacks and a few less abysmal ones (Up B is now usable). The fact BForward is a grab is pretty key, and it can suicide people if off the edge.

Kirby. Gets a lot of strength, but isn't fast like a lot of people, has bad range and priority. All around strong though.

Mid:

Lucario is clunky at times and quite vulnerable, but fairly powerful. Will probably be worth bringing back every so often when people start to stop worrying about metaing him.

Samus does what she always did, but the increased number of characters that do better things makes her just good, not great.

Peach loses a lot of ways to kill people, running grab makes turnips much worse, and the style of the game makes the fact she lived to high percentages a lot a bit less useful.

DK is a tank. Thats about all you can say.

Ness does what Lucas does range wise but has worse finishers.

Low-Mid:

R.O.B. is actually good vs the mid range characters, but awful vs the attack ranges and speed of the top tier. He can take on some of the high tier characters fairly well, but its just not worth it.

Mario is moderately quick but can't capitalize on it. Just all around weak.

DeDeDe is impractically clunky and bad in the air.

Pika is slowed down a lot. Eliminates the only thing he had going for him besides his forward smash.

Zelda is slower, more vulnerable, and less powerful, especially the forward smash. Can't even mid air transfor to recover any more.


Low:

Poketrainer (minus Squirtle): Clunky and bad recovery. Bad range. Just not good at all.

Bowser sucks.



Need to test:

Luigi doesn't seem very changed, but I haven't played him at all. Probably mid tier.

Snake is fast and very good at messing wiht standard attack plans. Needs a lot of time to figure out though. Probably high tier.

Squirtle is fast enough to be good, but has a dead attack and is moderately weak at killing people. Still probably mid-high at least. Could theoretically transform to make a better matchup, but i don't see the other 2 being better.

Yoshi and IC's I haven't played at all. Assuming Yoshi is still poor quality and IC's can be high tier if they can desynch.

I've heard mixed reviews on Wario, but my general hatred of slow characters without a good attack range (see Ike) has applied here. Probably Mid or Mid-low.

C falcon seems unchanged, but I haven't played much with him. Probably Mid or Mid high.

Game and Watch seems vastly improved. I would say in the top half at the least, but need to play him more to see. Still seems light, low range, and has bad upward attacks, so no better than high as Marth and Pit really capitalize on these.

Diddy Kong I hate, but he has speed. I can't honestly say here.

 

[Xeris]

Top Tier:

Toon Link
Diddy Kong
Lucas
Zelda
ZSS

High Tier:

Ike
Fox
Marth
Wolf
Pit
Metaknight

High-mid Tier:

Luigi
Falco
Sheik
Sonic
Wario
Kirby

Low-mid tier

Ness
Lucario
R.O.B
Snake
Jigglypuff
Peach

Low tier:

Mario
Captain Falcon
Game and Watch
Pikachu
Ice Climbers
Pikmin and Olimar
King Dedede
Pokemon Trainer

Bottom tier:

Samus
Bowser
Link
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Donkey Kong

. . . Wha????

 

[Emblem Lord]

How does Falco suck?

Can someone explain this to me?

 

[Tin]

ArmLx, do you actually know what you're talking about? Your tier list is made up of fan-based opinions with nothing to back it up.

Zelda less powerful? Luigi didn't change? Ness doesn't have a finisher?

Do some research before posting please.

 

[Squadallah]

This thread FAILS to deliver. What's this thread about anyway? Some fabricated list based on inaccurate observations? Just because you got whooped by some other character, it doesn't mean that character is better than yours. It means the HUMAN that possessed that character is better at Brawl than you are. Get over it and quit blaming your character like it was the character that lost and not YOU.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok, straight up...

Falco is no less than high tier.

If you can't see that then you know nothing.

Same thing goes for PT.

Squirtle is top tier and Charizard and Ivysaur are high tier.

PT is probably high tier actually.

But the point is that he is really good.

People that think Falco suck pobly thin kthat cuz his shine is different.

lol.

Noobs.

Above poster fails extra hard BTW.

This thread ain't for you if you aren't ready to accept that some characters are just plain better.

Yes, the humman component is the most important, but let's be real here.

Some characters are just plain better.

 

[I.T.P]

There's too many "WTF were you thinking when you wrote that" lists for me to argue with.

but basically, can someone back up putting fox or sonic anywhere higher than mid? and can anyone back up putting any of the characters I placed as top below high?

here's my list again, in case you missed it.

Top:
Luigi
Marth
Diddy
Meta knight
Pit
Olimar
PT
Zelda
DDD
Toon link
Wolf

High:
Peach
Zamus
Lucas
Ike
R.O.B
Snake
Mario
Wario
GaW
Ice Climbers
Falco
Lucario
Pikachu
Kirby

Mid:
Ness
Bowser
Fox
Sonic
Samus
Link
Shiek

Low:
Falcon
Gannon
Yoshi
DK
Jigglypuff

I didn't go as far as in-tier order, just the basics "X tier"

 

[_X_]

Man none of these are close at all...

I've really had enough of "Ma fav charaterz r t0p tirz".

When will the 'authorities' have a tire list complete?

 

[Squadallah]

Above poster fails extra hard BTW.

This thread ain't for you if you aren't ready to accept that some characters are just plain better.

Yes, the human component is the most important, but let's be real here.

Some characters are just plain better.

Lets be real then. I want REAL evidence that shows character A > character B. What's this? You don't have any REAL FACTS? OK then. Looks like you can't accept that this whole tier list concept is BS.

It's ALL about the human component, and you need to accept that.

 

[I.T.P]

Lets be real then. I want REAL evidence that shows character A > character B. What's this? You don't have any REAL FACTS? OK then. Looks like you can't accept that this whole tier list concept is BS.

It's ALL about the human component, and you need to accept that.

You're doing it wrong! no bookmarks! no Plugins! Firefox only! Final Destination!


I've yet to see someone counter anything in my list with proper arguments, except "this should be a spot lower or higher"

 

[adumbrodeus]

Isofar I've observed that:

Link is FURTHER nerfed, if for no other reason, you can downthrow into spin attack anymore. Speaking of spin attack... it needed to do SOMETHING right off the bat... and why does the range go down EVERY game?

Marth definitely loses a little because of lower range, but he still plays very similarly (minus wave-dash based maneuvers), expect him to be pretty high up there. Oh, dair was nerfed considerably.

Ike is, surprisingly good, he's slow (especially f-smash) but he's got killing power in spades and it seems like enough to make up for it. Oh, he got Roy's counter, which is nice, and forward B, while predictable, should make a good linear approach, and ability to pull range is a plus. Aether is definitely usable. I'm guessing mid-tier.

Pit his arrows are REALLY useful, and he has a nice move-set, most of which don't seem laggy and have reasonable priority. Loses out on killing power to a degree though.

Gannondorf, too slow, too laggy, got some nice improvements (unblockable foreward b), but not enough to make up for inability to wave-dash and shffl, low tier almost certainly.






Oh, TIRES DON EXITS!

Lets be real then. I want REAL evidence that shows character A > character B. What's this? You don't have any REAL FACTS? OK then. Looks like you can't accept that this whole tier list concept is BS.

It's ALL about the human component, and you need to accept that.

That all characters as powerful as each other means that there is perfect balance...

The only way that can happen is if they are all identical, (Warcraft 2 solution), something which Brawl DOESN'T use.

Thus since perfect balance is impossible unless it's essentially the same character, some characters have to be more powerful then others.


Simple, now we're just discussing which characters we think will ultimately be proven superior, because we are discussing hard data, albeit loosely measured, for now. None of our conclusions are binding, since we don't have that factor, but elementary logic tells us that the core assumption is correct, tiers are real.

Of course, some games are more balanced then others, but there are still differences that give rise to tiers.

 

[OoNoiRoO]

Man none of these are close at all...

I've really had enough of "Ma fav charaterz r t0p tirz".

When will the 'authorities' have a tire list complete?

The game's been out for a month(a couple days for most of you)... I'm too lazy to say anything more.

 

[legendofme]

This is how I view it. Even though all the characters are contenders this time around. Everyone is broken. Just some have more brokeness than others.

(No order)
Top-Toon Link, Pit, Marth, Diddy, Poke Trainer
Hi-Lucas, Wolf, Lucario, Metaknight, R.O.B, Ike
Hi Mid-Fox, Olimar, Falco, D3, G&W, Peach, Snake, Zelda, ZSS
Lo Mid-I.C, Sonic, Bowser, Sheik, Mario, Samus, Kirby
Low-Luigi, C.Falcon, Ness, Jiggly, Pikachu, DK
Bottom-Ganon, Link, Yoshi

Ganon and Link will move up after I see some more potential. Yoshi just isn't better than the rest of the cast.

 

[_X_]

The game's been out for a month(a couple days for most of you)... I'm too lazy to say anything more.

This I do understand.

How long after Melee's release was an ACCURATE, tier list devised?

 

[RazeveX]

This I do understand.

How long after Melee's release was an ACCURATE, tier list devised?

check the smashwiki, i think it has a history of all previous tiers.

oh, and on your location description you wrote melborune instead of melbourne.

 

[_X_]

check the smashwiki, i think it has a history of all previous tiers.

oh, and on your location description you wrote melborune instead of melbourne.

Yeaah, I always do that, it's the way my fingers hit the keys.

Thanks for the pick-up man.

 

[RazeveX]

Yeaah, I always do that, it's the way my fingers hit the keys.

Thanks for the pick-up man.

yeah, i do the same thing with lsiten (listen), lol.

anyways, nice to see another melbournian smasher on the boards.

 

[HaVoK x]

Marth
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Mario
diddy
Dedede
Sonic
Meta Knight
pit


not in order but there all probly high teir

 

[HaVoK x]

Isofar I've observed that:

Link is FURTHER nerfed, if for no other reason, you can downthrow into spin attack anymore. Speaking of spin attack... it needed to do SOMETHING right off the bat... and why does the range go down EVERY game?

Marth definitely loses a little because of lower range, but he still plays very similarly (minus wave-dash based maneuvers), expect him to be pretty high up there. Oh, dair was nerfed considerably.

Ike is, surprisingly good, he's slow (especially f-smash) but he's got killing power in spades and it seems like enough to make up for it. Oh, he got Roy's counter, which is nice, and forward B, while predictable, should make a good linear approach, and ability to pull range is a plus. Aether is definitely usable. I'm guessing mid-tier.

Pit his arrows are REALLY useful, and he has a nice move-set, most of which don't seem laggy and have reasonable priority. Loses out on killing power to a degree though.

Gannondorf, too slow, too laggy, got some nice improvements (unblockable foreward b), but not enough to make up for inability to wave-dash and shffl, low tier almost certainly.






Oh, TIRES DON EXITS!









That all characters as powerful as each other means that there is perfect balance...

The only way that can happen is if they are all identical, (Warcraft 2 solution), something which Brawl DOESN'T use.

Thus since perfect balance is impossible unless it's essentially the same character, some characters have to be more powerful then others.


Simple, now we're just discussing which characters we think will ultimately be proven superior, because we are discussing hard data, albeit loosely measured, for now. None of our conclusions are binding, since we don't have that factor, but elementary logic tells us that the core assumption is correct, tiers are real.

Of course, some games are more balanced then others, but there are still differences that give rise to tiers.

the part about link i agree i think they make worse every game

 

[PIMPSLAP]

Zelda is the more powerfull of the two now here lag was kind of removed and here din fire and the coolest thing ever i mean it changes so good and the range was expired and sped up and it kills people thats awesome.... i think zelda should be high tier.

 

[BigRick]

Lets be real then. I want REAL evidence that shows character A > character B. What's this? You don't have any REAL FACTS? OK then. Looks like you can't accept that this whole tier list concept is BS.

It's ALL about the human component, and you need to accept that.

If you would've read Emblem Lord's posts at the first place... you would've seen these FACTS that you want so much to see

 

[The Mediator]

Zelda is the more powerfull of the two now here lag was kind of removed and here din fire and the coolest thing ever i mean it changes so good and the range was expired and sped up and it kills people thats awesome.... i think zelda should be high tier.

Agreed....

 

[ToP CaT]

Zelda is the more powerfull of the two now here lag was kind of removed and here din fire and the coolest thing ever i mean it changes so good and the range was expired and sped up and it kills people thats awesome.... i think zelda should be high tier.

good man, stop puting her mid shes second level high tier

 

[Remian]

As good as Marth is, I have seen amazing Marths destroyed by amazing Ike players...

 

[Bobz]

hah hah, every other tier list thrown up here is missing wario, i guess people just don't play him at all

hes looking like top of mid, or if there are five tiers again, somewhere in high. Bite mindgames, and hes got crazy air mobility, you can actually do aerials into shields, and move back before you land to avoid grabs. recovery isn't an issue if you save your bike, and the fart, up air and ftilt give him other options besides the amazing super armor forward smash. I guess he's just largely overlooked...