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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

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ShadowLink84

ShadowLink84

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but the worst characters could still beat top tier characters in SSB64. So the tiers did n't have such an impact that there was a clear difference in viability.

I wish Link in SSBB had Link's spin attack from melee. And the boomerang from SSB64.
And a fast Dair...
 
Kiwikomix

Kiwikomix

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Tires donned exits (or at least didn't matter that much) in SSB just because EVERY character was broken, except Link. That was the way to make a game balanced.
 
Onxy

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biased, boss8 is on drugs, corey fails, ike fer toup tier, lol corey pit is high, medanite far top tire, my poor poor samus, omg ike for top tier, paunch = top tier, pit is bottom tier lol, these lists all suck, tier list.

Funny tags, lol.

N64 > Melee *runs*
 
SmashBrother2008

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mc-killa said:
Melees was like

Top--High--Upper middle----Lower middle----Low----Bottom

Brawls is more like

Top-----High---Upper Middle--Lower middle-Low-Botom

lolwut^.^
Click to expand...
Pretty true. Brawl seems more balanced but I still can't say that it's perfect. Melee was just a broken character fest (Fox, Falco, Shiek, Marth, Peach).
 
MarKO X

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Well, I know NOTHING of competitive SSB64... I only play that for the childhood memories... i don't even bother with the items switch, lol.
 
The Real Inferno

The Real Inferno

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Christ, this is terrible. I know spam is great fun and all but this topic was designed for serious discussion not random ******* around. Please take the spam to Gamefaqs where it belongs.

Random two characters: Samus. It seems she's much more viable than many people initially thought. Her "combos" are very nice and the things she can do with Nair are just nasty. Has some trouble getting the kill, but so do many characters and it isn't hurting them so much. Low Mid to Upper Low tier I would say.

Ganondorf: The majority of his metagame seems to be revolving around the use of Side B techchases and Dair. He's one of the best "punish the opponent" characters but his speed and lack luster recovery really hinder him. I don't imagine he'll rise past Bottom tier at this rate, despite their being some really quite fantastic things you can do with him.
 
DanGR

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I'm bored. I'll make a tier list and explain my reasoning. This tier list isn't normal. It takes into account popularity, matchups, the current metagame for that character, and potential more than it does tourney placings. There's too many other factors besides "how good a character is" that effect tourney placings, so they won't bear as much weight as the other four categories I listed. If you don't like my list, bug off. I'll begin by saying that MK is better than Snake. Yes, I said it. Now laugh...come on, I know you think that's funny. I don't.

Top
MK
Snake

Sadly, these two are the only characters that belong in top tier. No Mr. GamesetMatch, no DDD, only MK and Snake. They're much better than any other character in the game. They don't have very many weaknesses, and the few that they do have can be avoided entirely through playing patiently and not being too aggressive. MK>Snake? Wtf??? MK is better than Snake. Snake has a few exploitable weaknesses, whereas MK doesn't. If MK plays patiently and doesn't get over-aggro, he shouldn't lose to ANYONE. HE HAS NO BAD MATCHUPS. They're all even or advantaged for him. Snake is just hard to get used to fighting. You have to work your way around mines and grenades and crud, but it's very winnable. You knock him in the air and you should be able to get 50% on him before he lands. Edgeguarding isn't a pain either b/c of easily his recovery is gimped.

Higher
Marth
GaW
Falco
Rob
DDD
Lucario
Olimar
Wario

Marth is very hard to use. In the right hands, he is one of the deadliest characters in the game. His only big weaknesses are that he has weak grabs, and no safe kill moves. Good Marth users can circumvent these minor problems. All of these characters have very few flaws and they all can be avoided entirely. They've held there place in the tourney standings as well. They all have great matchups against the rest of the cast. GaW is below Marth simply b/c Marth is very unpopular and GaW is very popular. Olimar has made it to high tier b/c he's very unpopular as well, and his metagame hasn't slowed down like some other high tier-potentials have such as DK. He has average matchups within the higher and top tier characters with the advantage or neutral status on Lucario, DDD, Falco, GaW, and Snake. For Wario, Futile is just too good. ^_^

Mid
Donkey Kong
Kirby
IC
Fox
ZSS
Falco w/o bair, fsmash, or upsmash
Sheik/Zelda
Mario
Pit
Diddy
Pikachu
Tlink

Your first question may be why does Falco without those three moves belong in this tier? More importantly, why isSheik/Zelda in high tier. If you regard Sheik separate from Zelda, you're ignoring her most important kill move-downb. I see no difference b/t putting Falco without his kill moves in a lower spot just as people put Sheik/Zelda separately. Zelda is one of the most underrated characters in the game. Sheik has so much potential in brawl that it scares me. She racks well, edgeguards well, is faster than most characters, and really doesn't have any flaws besides killing. That's where Zelda comes in handy. At the highest level of play, Zelda should be used to kill where Sheik can't. Regardless of popularity and tourney placings, she deserves to be in high tier. Their only bad matchup (when put together) is GaW, a very popular character. Kirby is good in brawl. VERY good. There are no real weaknesses that kirby has. He has some bad matchups among the higher tier chars and that's the only thing holding him back. All of these characters are either underused or just have some bad matchups in the higher tier ( or embarrasing matchups in the lower tiers) that holds them back from reaching the next tier. Oh, and Boss' Mario is higher tier.

Low
Wolf
Peach
Luigi
Ness
PT
Yoshi
Lucas
Ike
Sonic

This group is a list of character that have either no developing metagame or are drastically underused. Wolf doesn't have a future in brawl. He has no safe killing moves, and has trouble racking. Laser is completely avoidable, he has an awful recovery, and he falls too fast, which makes for easy juggling. PT has too big of a future (being very hard to master), and Yoshi, Sonic, and Peach are both hard to use and underused.


Phail tier
Bowser
Samus
Link
CF
Jiggs
Maninboots

I don't really need to explain myself here. They all suck. Captain Failcon is better than Mboots and Jiggs. Face it. Bowser is Snake, but without mines, grenades, ftilt, uptilt, and vertical recovery. He's got nothin. Jiggs, as fun as she is to play, is bad. Oh, and don't give me that Linkaggedon combo crap. He's just good. It's not the character.

Did I forget anyone? If I did, they probably suck anyways. Just put them in the fail tier.
 
Zankoku

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I thought Marth's big weakness was that he's punishable on anything he does if he misses.
 
DanGR

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Only his bad moves that people shouldn't use very often are punishable. Ftilt, jab, uptilt, fsmash, upsmash, and dsmash are the punishable ones. The more used ones are nearly impossible to punish are fair, dtilt, and dancing blade. Fsmash is occasional and so are jab, dsmash, and upsmash. ftilt and uptilt just suck.
 
Tim_The_Enchanter

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Why is this thread still alive? There are about 0 new ATs that could change the metagame and all we are doing is making biased tier lists that are pretty much all the same except bottom tier.
 
Oracle

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DanGR said:
I'm bored. I'll make a tier list and explain my reasoning. This tier list isn't normal. It takes into account popularity, matchups, the current metagame for that character, and potential more than it does tourney placings. There's too many other factors besides "how good a character is" that effect tourney placings, so they won't bear as much weight as the other four categories I listed. If you don't like my list, bug off. I'll begin by saying that MK is better than Snake. Yes, I said it. Now laugh...come on, I know you think that's funny. I don't.

Top
MK
Snake

Sadly, these two are the only characters that belong in top tier. No Mr. GamesetMatch, no DDD, only MK and Snake. They're much better than any other character in the game. They don't have very many weaknesses, and the few that they do have can be avoided entirely through playing patiently and not being too aggressive. MK>Snake? Wtf??? MK is better than Snake. Snake has a few exploitable weaknesses, whereas MK doesn't. If MK plays patiently and doesn't get over-aggro, he shouldn't lose to ANYONE. HE HAS NO BAD MATCHUPS. They're all even or advantaged for him. Snake is just hard to get used to fighting. You have to work your way around mines and grenades and crud, but it's very winnable. You knock him in the air and you should be able to get 50% on him before he lands. Edgeguarding isn't a pain either b/c of easily his recovery is gimped.

Higher
Marth
GaW
Falco
Rob
DDD
Lucario
Olimar
Wario

Marth is very hard to use. In the right hands, he is one of the deadliest characters in the game. His only big weaknesses are that he has weak grabs, and no safe kill moves. Good Marth users can circumvent these minor problems. All of these characters have very few flaws and they all can be avoided entirely. They've held there place in the tourney standings as well. They all have great matchups against the rest of the cast. GaW is below Marth simply b/c Marth is very unpopular and GaW is very popular. Olimar has made it to high tier b/c he's very unpopular as well, and his metagame hasn't slowed down like some other high tier-potentials have such as DK. He has average matchups within the higher and top tier characters with the advantage or neutral status on Lucario, DDD, Falco, GaW, and Snake. For Wario, Futile is just too good. ^_^

Mid
Donkey Kong
Kirby
IC
Fox
ZSS
Falco w/o bair, fsmash, or upsmash
Sheik/Zelda
Mario
Pit
Diddy
Pikachu
Tlink

Your first question may be why does Falco without those three moves belong in this tier? More importantly, why isSheik/Zelda in high tier. If you regard Sheik separate from Zelda, you're ignoring her most important kill move-downb. I see no difference b/t putting Falco without his kill moves in a lower spot just as people put Sheik/Zelda separately. Zelda is one of the most underrated characters in the game. Sheik has so much potential in brawl that it scares me. She racks well, edgeguards well, is faster than most characters, and really doesn't have any flaws besides killing. That's where Zelda comes in handy. At the highest level of play, Zelda should be used to kill where Sheik can't. Regardless of popularity and tourney placings, she deserves to be in high tier. Their only bad matchup (when put together) is GaW, a very popular character. Kirby is good in brawl. VERY good. There are no real weaknesses that kirby has. He has some bad matchups among the higher tier chars and that's the only thing holding him back. All of these characters are either underused or just have some bad matchups in the higher tier ( or embarrasing matchups in the lower tiers) that holds them back from reaching the next tier. Oh, and Boss' Mario is higher tier.

Low
Wolf
Peach
Luigi
Ness
PT
Yoshi
Lucas
Ike
Sonic

This group is a list of character that have either no developing metagame or are drastically underused. Wolf doesn't have a future in brawl. He has no safe killing moves, and has trouble racking. Laser is completely avoidable, he has an awful recovery, and he falls too fast, which makes for easy juggling. PT has too big of a future (being very hard to master), and Yoshi, Sonic, and Peach are both hard to use and underused.


Phail tier
Bowser
Samus
Link
CF
Jiggs
Maninboots

I don't really need to explain myself here. They all suck. Captain Failcon is better than Mboots and Jiggs. Face it. Bowser is Snake, but without mines, grenades, ftilt, uptilt, and vertical recovery. He's got nothin. Jiggs, as fun as she is to play, is bad. Oh, and don't give me that Linkaggedon combo crap. He's just good. It's not the character.

Did I forget anyone? If I did, they probably suck anyways. Just put them in the fail tier.
Click to expand...
Wolf=/=low tier. High mid at the least.

How is Dsmash not safe? How is his recovery awful?
 
DanGR

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dsmash isn't a kill move b/c it gets too decayed throughout a regular battle. All you have to do is stay behind wolf and he won't be able to kill you. He's really not very good.
 
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