Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Kiwikomix]

Gannondorf has an incredible dair, he can gimp anyone at 50%.

It's just getting the opportunity that's a killer...

ROB can gimp anyone at 0%. So can any other character with a spike. That doesn't mean he's going to do it.
Point?

 

[chckn]

How about something a little more accurate w/o tl in top tier -_-

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight

High Tier:
Mr. Game and Watch
Falco
R.O.B.
King Dedede
Marth
Wario

Upper Tier:
Donkey Kong
Olimar
Lucario
Ice Climbers
Pikachu
Pit
Toon Link
Wolf


Mid Tier:
Zelda
Kirby
ZSS
Diddy Kong
Luigi
Lucas
Fox
Ness
Mario
Sheik

Low Tier:
Sonic
Peach
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser
Ganondorf

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon

 

[GI Josh]

Pit in two different tiers?

oh crap didnt realize that

 

[Theftz22]

do you guys think fox will ever be higher than wolf?

I'm bringin it back up because only danGR addressed it and he didn't really say anything.

 

[DanGR]

Fox is better than Wolf, therefore he will be higher in tiers. Wolf is overrated. If you get used to his multihit moves, sit outside of his range, use empty SHs, and can deal with laser spam efficiently, every matchup becomes a whole lot easier to deal with. It's that simple. The smaller, more unnoticed problems about using Wolf become much more apparent as you practice against him. For beginners it's hard, and this is coming from an Olimar main, and apparently, Wolf>Olimar? not true.

 

[Rawrness]

What about TL? He's the most underrated character in this game.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Underrated?
Where have you been?

 

[sHy)(gUy]

toon link has the potential to be high tier IMO, its just know ones using him or doing well with him. Whats wrong with everyone, can no one see TLs potential? there was a time when he was believed to be the best character in the game, so what happened? how could he all of sudden be so avararge/bad/unused/forgotten?
id like to see toon link rise back to the top and overthrow snake...

 

[ShadowLink84]

Easy Snake and MK happened.

 

[Swordplay]

Toon link is underrated but I think Link is even more underrated....such a technical character he is....

Toon link will always be a better character than Link because toonlink just has as plane and simple better move set but Link has a lot of AT's involving bombs and zair that toonlink still has but are just as good and in some cases than toon links. not to mention Link has a DAC and Toon link does not. Don't let me forget Gale gaurding either.....

I feel like both of these characters...especially toon link went down the drain because of matchup problems.

These guys have potential because of the amount of AT's they have with bombs. which is why I think they will eventually move up a bit.

Link will probably make it out of bottom and into the middle of low tier and toon link will work his way up to the top of the upper tier ((6 tier system)

 

[Onxy]

Its very punishable, ill charge a smash in ur face and if ur ivysaur and possibly squirtle u may be dead.

It's not like the PT user is just going to switch right in your face.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

You're not forced to switch Pokémon, you're given a free, unpunishable switch. Force has such a negative context when it's actually a good thing.

This doesn't change the fact that if your Pokemon loses a stock, you HAVE to use the next Pokemon in the cycle, unlike Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS.

 

[Nestec]

*Tier List*

Whoa, should Samus really be that far below Bowser? I don't know how updated the match-ups for either of them are, but their tourney scores are about the same...

 

[Timbers]

toon link has the potential to be high tier IMO, its just know ones using him or doing well with him. Whats wrong with everyone, can no one see TLs potential? there was a time when he was believed to be the best character in the game, so what happened? how could he all of sudden be so avararge/bad/unused/forgotten?
id like to see toon link rise back to the top and overthrow snake...

Toon link is underrated but I think Link is even more underrated....such a technical character he is....

Toon link will always be a better character than Link because toonlink just has as plane and simple better move set but Link has a lot of AT's involving bombs and zair that toonlink still has but are just as good and in some cases than toon links. not to mention Link has a DAC and Toon link does not. Don't let me forget Gale gaurding either.....

I feel like both of these characters...especially toon link went down the drain because of matchup problems.

These guys have potential because of the amount of AT's they have with bombs. which is why I think they will eventually move up a bit.

Link will probably make it out of bottom and into the middle of low tier and toon link will work his way up to the top of the upper tier ((6 tier system)

Characters that had a small learning curve were picked up and flocked to more quickly than the others. (MK, DDD, Wolf, Snake, etc)

I'm sure once Brawl starts breaking some ground, the more technical characters will begin appearing.

TL definitely has potential, as well as Link. Link definitely won't place as well as TL on the tier list, but he's not completely bad as most have been making him out to be.

 

[Demon_Fox]

How about something a little more accurate w/o tl in top tier -_-

...

Zelda mid-tier? She's better, isn't she. She has much more good match-ups than all the other mid-tiers in your list. Also Pikachu, he's just beastly in Brawl. You can compare him in no way to the Melee Pika.

 

[Timbers]

Zelda mid-tier? She's better, isn't she. She has much more good match-ups than all the other mid-tiers in your list. Also Pikachu, he's just beastly in Brawl. You can compare him in no way to the Melee Pika.

I looked at the list. Saw Lucas and Luigi in mid tier.

Totally disregarded it afterwards.

 

[Theftz22]

GAAAAA! Still no one but DanGR responds to will fox ever be considered higher than wolf.

 

[Timbers]

Under, it's probably because we don't know. The game is so **** campy, and Fox is anything but campy. It's too easy to punish a character who has to stay on the offense, but lacks range and disjointed hitboxes. Wolf is catered to much better with Brawl's mechanics than Fox is, but he's still quite one sided and his approach is even more predictable than Fox's. His recovery begs to be gimped and his aerial game sucks (save for the bair)

I expect Wolf to be top of Mid, and I'm expecting Fox to be somewhere next to him. If Wolf does indeed place further up, it's not going to be by much.

 

[DanGR]

Zelda mid-tier? She's better, isn't she. She has much more good match-ups than all the other mid-tiers in your list. Also Pikachu, he's just beastly in Brawl. You can compare him in no way to the Melee Pika.

She doesn't have as many good matchups as the chart says she does and she's doing VERY crappy in tourneys so far. She deserves low tier, but chikn has shed his grace on her soul.

 

[LINKaTINK]

cflac and jiggly are both underused and under appreciated /explored blatantly...link>ganon

 

[Anth0ny]

She doesn't have as many good matchups as the chart says she does and she's doing VERY crappy in tourneys so far. She deserves low tier, but chikn has shed his grace on her soul.

Absolutely no chance that she's low tier. Even if she doesn't do well in tournaments, she still kills consistantly under 100% with the majority of her moveset. She has a reflector move in her neutral b, a good recovery (distance wise and nothing more ), and din's fire is probably one of the best projectiles in the game.

I'd personally place her at the middle of mid tier, or perhaps even a bit higher. No chance that she's low tier.

 

[Morrigan]

She doesn't have as many good matchups as the chart says she does and she's doing VERY crappy in tourneys so far. She deserves low tier, but chikn has shed his grace on her soul.

>_>



And wow, people are still placing Peach in Low Tier?

 

[Pierce7d]

I'm sorry, but I don't hear anyone winning with Peach, and she loses to every top and high tier character except D3.

 

[Theftz22]

can anyone please explain the reasoning of why sheik is so low? I'm not questioning it, I just want to know.

 

[Anth0ny]

can anyone please explain the reasoning of why sheik is so low? I'm not questioning it, I just want to know.

She's everything she was in melee, except a hell of a lot weaker knockback wise. I also think her upb recovery got nerfed, but her forward b is now a tether.

Nonetheless, I think she should be a bit higher.

 

[ShadowLink84]

ITS A SHE!

Christ.

And anthony she doesn't consistently kill under 100%.
in order to do so she needs to sweetspother strongest killing moves something that cannot be done very consistently unless you face a large character.

 

[sethisawesome]

has anyone considered that there may not be so many tiers now? the general consensus seems to be that brawl is more balanced and that the difference between the tiers is not very much.


so....how about less tiers as a result? i really think that only three are needed; high, mid, and low.

thoughts? or am i just ********?

 

[Anth0ny]

ITS A SHE!

Christ.

And anthony she doesn't consistently kill under 100%.
in order to do so she needs to sweetspother strongest killing moves something that cannot be done very consistently unless you face a large character.

My bad

As for Zelda, I've seen her kill off most of the cast under 100% with her upsmash, fsmash and upair, which don't really have sweetspots if you land it properly. fair and bair have sweetspots, and also kill under 100%. If not under 100%, just over (100-114 approx.). As for the matter of sweetspotting, a good Zelda player could sweetspot. My friend mains her and lands sweetspotted fairs all the time.

 

[Morrigan]

I'm sorry, but I don't hear anyone winning with Peach, and she loses to every top and high tier character except D3.

Then you're hearing wrong, because she's getting higher placings than many characters above her in these tier lists people are posting here, at least nowadays.

Peach has a lot of potential, I'm not saying this just because I main her. It's just that everyone seems to think "lawl peach nerfzzzzzzzz no dsmash" and automatically placing her in Low, and can't back it up with useful information and/or facts.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

She doesn't have as many good matchups as the chart says she does and she's doing VERY crappy in tourneys so far. She deserves low tier, but chikn has shed his grace on her soul.

Wow, you're really biased against Zelda aren't you?

Low Tier? Seriously amongst the the likes probablu of Ike, Peach, and Ganon? No, that's plain ridiculous. I don't care if you agree with the matchup chart or not, if you look at not as exact, but in a relative sense, it shows which characters have Good and Bad Matchups well. She has MUCH better matchups than any characters in the percieved Low Tier and even a grand majority of the Mid Tier. And as for Tourney results, She's doing better than Toon Link, Pikachu, SHEIK, and many other Low/Bottom Tier fodders, Her results are middle of the road/below average, but not bad enough to the point to drop her to Low Tier.

That's almost as bad as saying Sonic is High Tier. Wtf?

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Then you're hearing wrong, because she's getting higher placings than many characters above her in these tier lists people are posting here, at least nowadays.

Peach has a lot of potential, I'm not saying this just because I main her. It's just that everyone seems to think "lawl peach nerfzzzzzzzz no dsmash" and automatically placing her in Low, and can't back it up with useful information and/or facts.

Well her matchups in generall seem pretty bad, and I'm not completely sold on the fact that she's better than some of the characters in the percieved Mid Tier area.

 

[Morrigan]

But still, I think Low is TOO much. The tier list this time around should get Mid divided in two.

 

[Snowstalker]

TOP:

Snake (Obvious)
Meta Knight (Also obvious)
Mr. Game & Watch (His priority is godlike, and he's very powerful for such a light character)
Marth (Sakurai forgot to nerf him, it seems)
Falco (Laser lock and chain grab make an already good character even better)
R.O.B (Being among the most hated Brawl characters doesn't make you bottom tier)

HIGH:

King Dedede (His recovery is amazing for such a big character. Oh, and chain grabs)
Toon Link (His dair gives people nightmares, and he can rack up damage quickly)
Pikachu (Light, but fast. Also, he has powerful attacks and good recovery)
Ice Climbers (Nana finally grew a brain)
Wolf (He's deadly, but his recovery isn't the best)
Captian Olimar (He's almost scary, but his ****** recovery keeps him out of the top tiers)
Kirby (He's not quite back to his godlike N64 incarnation, but he's still good)
Pit (I hate him, but his recovery is great, and he racks up crazy damage)
Wario (Really unpredictable. His many tourney wins also help his placement)


MIDDLE:

Zelda (Slow and light, but she has a spammy projectile and powerful killing moves)
Donkey Kong (He's a beast in both ways)
Fox (Nerfed, but at least he feels like a character instead of a monster)
Diddy Kong (Unpredictable. Yes, he's good even without bananas)
Lucario (His attacks become stronger as his damage goes up, and he's good even at 0%)
Luigi (A wacky character with powerful attacks and various recovery options)
Zero Suit Samus (Fast, agile, and has the ability to distract perverted opponents)
Lucas (Powerful smashes make up for him being a magnet for chain grabbers)
Bowser (His attacks are surprisingly fast, he's heavy and strong, and he has Bowsercide)
Mario (A solid, all-around man with no real strengths or weaknesses)
Yoshi (His primary weakness in Melee has been fixed, making him decent)
Ness (Has a tougher time escaping grabs than Lucas, but he's still a powerful kid)

LOW:

Shiek (Fast and agile, but a bad killer)
Peach (Lackluster vertical recovery, but still a force to be reckoned with)
Ike (Great at room-clearing, but he's slow and very predictable)
Pokemon Trainer (You can't use just one, but the Pokemon themselves are okay)
Sonic (Awful priority and slow smashes destroy an otherwise good character)
Samus (Nerfed. There is nothing else to say)
Link (Wow. He's never been above Middle in any good tier list. Poor guy)

BOTTOM:

Jigglypuff (Easy as hell to kill, and other characters have better WOPs)
Ganondorf (He's super strong, but slower than a dying snail in the desert)
Captian Falcon (Take the bad aspects froom Sonic and Ganon, then combine them)

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

But still, I think Low is TOO much. The tier list this time around should get Mid divided in two.

Or High slashed in half considering there's characters too good for Mid/High Tier but not quite good enough for Top.

 

[Deleted member]

Lol@peach being low tier. If she ends up low, ill just quit smash lol

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

Lol@peach being low tier. If she ends up low, ill just quit smash lol

There's a decent if not very likely possibility of that happening >____>

 

[Mr.Charisma]

I see a lot of tier lists putting Pika in mid tier, and that is quite frankly Bull****.
Insane D-Smash, Great F-Smash, QAC,good recovery, fast, Much Improved Thunder.
He should easily be in the high tier.

 

[Morrigan]

Lol@peach being low tier. If she ends up low, ill just quit smash lol

Sarcasm?

 

[Gindler]

I think we can all agree that every character is useful in this game (unlike melee.......pichu? seriously?). Grab falcon punch in teams is too fun =P

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I see a lot of tier lists putting Pika in mid tier, and that is quite frankly Bull****.
Insane D-Smash, Great F-Smash, QAC,good recovery, fast, Much Improved Thunder.
He should easily be in the high tier.

Mid >_>. I rarely see anyone put him as mid, but he has some pretty terrible tournament results as of Summer 08 but that's likely to change.

Sarcasm?

lol